U.S. Military Draft

GhostValkyrie said:
The Iraqis I know want a democratic Iraq, I've heard Iraqis displeased with the war, but happy that it finally happened and Saddam has been captured. Of course, I don't know every Iraqi, but every Iraqi I've met supported the war and many will soon be returning home. I'm going to miss them. *sniffle* Anyway, I doubt the Iraqis liked Saddam and not being able to make decisions for themselves, Fizzle. Not saying you like Saddam, just wondering if you're taking the tone they don't want to be free?
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I'm sure they're glad to have gotten rid of Saddam but they want to elect their own officials and in many cases these are religous leaders whom they highly respect. We're basically saying to them, "No these people the U.S. likes are better to lead your country, besides did you think we actually wanted to get rid of Saddam and not make sure Iraq's future leadership were our approved underlings?".
 
fizzlephox said:
I'm sure they're glad to have gotten rid of Saddam but they want to elect their own officials and in many cases these are religous leaders whom they highly respect. We're basically saying to them, "No these people the U.S. likes are better to lead your country, besides did you think we actually wanted to get rid of Saddam and not make sure Iraq's future leadership were our approved underlings?".
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Well, hopefully the Iraqis will get to elect people they believe right for the job, and turn out to be so. I'd hate for us to establish security only for it to crumble after we leave, which is sadly a very likely thing.
 
Oh my gosh. I'm standing at the site af a thread train that got derailed and ended up a heaping pile of flaming metal. The mods have secured the scene but what people want to know is who was reponsible for this horrible de-railing and where the hell did all these klondike bars come from?

-CNN Report (preferred news source of GhostValkyrie)

......past reports of klondike bars in scrutiny......Michael Jackson says he thought kid was older......
 
fizzlephox said:
Oh my gosh. I'm standing at the site af a thread train that got derailed and ended up a heaping pile of flaming metal. The mods have secured the scene but what people want to know is who was reponsible for this horrible de-railing and where the hell did all these klondike bars come from?

-CNN Report (preferred news source of GhostValkyrie)
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Better than having the thread closed due to flaming :)


*qckbeam sneaks away and steals all the Klondike bars
 
fizzlephox said:
-CNN Report (preferred news source of GhostValkyrie)

......past reports of klondike bars in scrutiny......Michael Jackson says he thought kid was older......
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That's a leftist lie! :)
 
Id go if they put me behind gh0st so i could accidently shoot him in the ass.
 
I feel a bit of tension starting to develop....let's not let this end in flames...can't we all just get along despite our differences....please? :(
 
I seriously doubt that a draft will be instituted. There is far to much opposition to it and it would put Bush in a bad political position, even after the election (if he wins). Regarding the act of drafting though, I find it really sad that a draft would even need to be thought of because it basically means that there are not enough people willing to serve their country (and I don't just mean for this particular war).
 
GhostValkyrie said:
Well, hopefully the Iraqis will get to elect people they believe right for the job, and turn out to be so. I'd hate for us to establish security only for it to crumble after we leave, which is sadly a very likely thing.
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America isn't usually that great at picking leaders... after all, we appointed both saddam and bin laden. go us.
 
If there is a draft...of course I'll go but I definitely won't like it. It'll just totally interrupt my life as a college student. I'd have to pack up and just leave...and that'd suck.

I seriously doubt that the draft will come up again, but there's always that little voice in the back of my mind saying, "Well....what if it does and your number comes up?" Going to Iraq is just something I'm not in the mood for...
 
crabcakes66 said:
Id go if they put me behind gh0st so i could accidently shoot him in the ass.
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yeah i doubt thats what youd try to do to my ass.

its not whether or not the war is justifiable, you dont always fight for what you believe in. like i said before, id do it for the other soldiers, not bush, or my country, or anyone else. yeesh.
 
fizzlephox said:
Much like how we're trying to force our way of life on the Iraqi's. Not everyone wants to live like we do and it's not our place to force a constant state of war and conflict on them until we get our way.
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sorry i wasent aware people enjoyed living under brutal dictators. i know i sure dont, and im willing to assume that iraqi's did not enjoy saddam hussein being their ruler.

and yes, pretty much everyone DOES want to live like we do, as is exemplified by the sheer number of people who emigrate here.
 
CyberSh33p said:
America isn't usually that great at picking leaders... after all, we appointed both saddam and bin laden. go us.
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Correction, we did not appoint Bin Laden because he isn't the leader of a country. It is true that we supplied him and his cronies with arms in order to help push out the Soviets though.We didn't appoint Saddam either, he became the leader of Iraq by staging a coup that deposed of the Baath party leader, Gen. Ahmed Hassan Bakr. But sadly, like Bin Laden, we did initially support him in his efforts against the USSR.
 
1 thing and thats all im going to say

saying that the soilders are dieing for your safty is crap. they are dying for a cause of "freedom" of iraq by a government that beilives in the seperation of church and state, were in iraq, government and church are the same. and there was never any threat of iraq attacking the us. Yes saddam should be taken away, but for the right reasons.
 
If I were you guys I would do some research and find out what military service had the highest survivability rate during Vietnam, and what military service was the hardest to get into during Vietnam. There is a clear answer to this if you take the time to look and it might save your life.

I know what service it is, but I cannot comment because of the nature of the topic, but if you do your research and if it looks like a draft is going to happen and your life is flexible enough to sign up for 4 years it might be wise to do some research and sign up before it gets hard to join if you don't want to go to Iraq or be placed in a service without your choosing, dodge the draft, become canadian, or go to jail. Sorry that is poorly written but it works.

If its going to happen you should do this research now just incase. There are only 5 services so its not that hard to figure it out.... thats all I can really say about this subject...

I have heard stories about how hard it was to get into a certain service once the draft became real in Vietnam and I thought I might let a few people know that researching the past could be helpful should you have to make some harsh decisions in the near future.

Like I said this is all I will post in this thread and I hope this helps some people atleast find some useful information.
 
The entire middle-east is a lost cause and it will be of no use to us when their oil runs out. Over time those countries that once benefited from the rich flow of black gold will wither and decay into barbarism. Tribal societies will once again dominate their lives as they tumble down the ladder of knowledge and morals. Their archaic religion will only encourage their descent.

So, no, i would not fight for such a pointless cause.
 
Colonel Sanders said:
Correction, we did not appoint Bin Laden because he isn't the leader of a country. It is true that we supplied him and his cronies with arms in order to help push out the Soviets though.We didn't appoint Saddam either, he became the leader of Iraq by staging a coup that deposed of the Baath party leader, Gen. Ahmed Hassan Bakr. But sadly, like Bin Laden, we did initially support him in his efforts against the USSR.
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actually, although the CIA's efforts in Afghanistan did support anyone who would fight the Soviets, Bin Laden actually refused to be given anything by the CIA. He didn't want any support from the US. If he got any weapons from the West, he bought them with his own family's money.

Bin Laden was just one of many leaders in Afghanistan. there were 40-some different organized units of Afghan fighters and countless bands of men that would go around causing whatever destruction they could.

Basically, the CIA would bring weapons and equipment in to Pakistan (weapons made by the Egyptians, the Chinese, and other countries...or bought through various arms deals.) and then the Pakistanis would distribute the weapons to the Afghans who were taking refuge just across the Pakistani border. They would get training in Pakistan as well.

If you guys want to know more about the Russians in Afghanistan, I suggest you read "Charlie Wilson's War". It's about congressman Charlie Wilson and an outlaw-ish CIA man (Gust Avrakotos) and how they escalate the US involvement in the war from about $500,000 to several billion dollars over just a few years. Both of these guys were obsessed with finding a non-American weapon (didn't want to use stingers early on because they wanted to keep the US involvement secret) to help the Afghans shoot down the Soviet Hind helicopters...it's an amazing book.

=================================

as far as the draft goes, I'd go if called up (though i'll be 25 in a year and ineligible). I'm not sure the Bush administration really knows what the hell they're doing over there, but if they need more troops to make sure there are less casualties overall, I'd support that because hopefully it would mean less casualties. Though a bigger army just means more power...and more power means the possibility increases that Iran or Syria is next on the "Countries that need us to give them freedom" list.

and for the record, only about 25% of the troops in vietnam were draftees...and only some of them were combat troops. most people think it was much higher.
 
Mr-Fusion said:
Their archaic religion will only encourage their descent.
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Calling Islam "archaic" automatically tags you with a "moron" label. Good job!
 
AmishSlayer said:
If there is a draft...of course I'll go but I definitely won't like it. It'll just totally interrupt my life as a college student. I'd have to pack up and just leave...and that'd suck.
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If you're in college you most likely won't be drafted.
 
I'm happy to say that there is no way I could get drafted. Found this little know loophole that says your feet have to be in a certain size range...they can't be larger than 16's. Plus being a Law student helps out a lot.
 
CyberSh33p said:
America isn't usually that great at picking leaders... after all, we appointed both saddam and bin laden. go us.
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To say we "appointed" them isn't exactly correct. To say we supported them would be more accurate.
 
heh, imo all religions are archaic, but that's neither here nor there :p. yeah, 'charlie wilson's war' is a book i've been meaning to read. i was wondering when you'd get in on these discussion masky ;)
 
Hehe...yeah I'm gonna have to second that.
When talking religion, none of the big ones are exactly what you'd call new.
 
^^ Archaic doesn't just mean "old." Archaic connotes a certain backward quality that just comes off as intolerence when describing a certain religion among others. To call them all "archaic" is fine, as that is a perfectly valid denouncement of organized religion in general. But picking out Islam as particularly "archaic" is an example of the intolerent ignorance that exemplifies mainstream America today.
 
Lil' Timmy said:
yeah, 'charlie wilson's war' is a book i've been meaning to read. i was wondering when you'd get in on these discussion masky ;)
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ha...i've probably posted about 5 times in the last month...i only have occasional non-dial-up access right now and i don't have the patience to do anything but check my email on dial-up *shudder*

anyway definitely read charlie wilson's war...it's a very easy read and there are some laugh-out-loud parts...like the guy Gust telling his station chief to go f*ck himself...twice...and where Wilson starts this $10 million a year "tinkering shop" near D.C. where some whacko guys try to find better ways to kill russians...

one of these (slightly-disturbed-mad-scientist-type) guys made a one-shot anti-tank weapon out of the GAU-8 gatling gun from an A-10 Warthog. he put it in the back of his pickup truck (LOADED WITH A 30mm DEPLETED URANIUM ROUND!!!!) to take it to a demonstration and threw a tarp over it. he stopped for some gas and while he was fueling up, it fell out of his truck and it went off...right through several pumps and bloew up the gas station...later he got arrested because the police thought he was a terrorist.

there wasn't much detail on this part...they didn't say how he managed to get away (and with his truck, too) but i assume he just started a fire that somehow led to the explosion...because it did say that only two people got injured and nobody died.

anyway...definitely very informative and a great read. lots of insight into how congress and the CIA and work (or at least how they did in the 80's).

sorry to digress from the draft topic so much :p
 
i would say im gay, im a womer, im a gay women, im European, im a gay European, or live in the lobby of some canadian hotel until the war is over. id rather fight in a video game and feel secure.
 
galoot3000 said:
i would say im gay, im a womer, im a gay women, im European, im a gay European, or live in the lobby of some canadian hotel until the war is over. id rather fight in a video game and feel secure.
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??? :rolling: ???
so you're a european lesbian living in a canadian hotel lobby? i don't think you need to worry about the draft much.. cuz you're whacko ;)
 
CyberSh33p said:
America isn't usually that great at picking leaders... after all, we appointed both saddam and bin laden. go us.
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Umm...what does a past leader's support of Saddam have to do with Iraqi elections? BTW, our country's leader was not the only one that supported Saddam. France and the Soviet Union were his primary suppliers, and a few Mid East states were and still are political supporters to him.
 
DarkStar said:
^^ Archaic doesn't just mean "old." Archaic connotes a certain backward quality that just comes off as intolerence when describing a certain religion among others. To call them all "archaic" is fine, as that is a perfectly valid denouncement of organized religion in general. But picking out Islam as particularly "archaic" is an example of the intolerent ignorance that exemplifies mainstream America today.
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I really don't see how. The Mainstream World has no respect for any religion whatsoever, and most of the type who would label Islam in such a way are afraid of chastisement from others...unless they're some sort of careless, idiot redneck. I'm Christian, and my friends and I can't talk about God or Jesus when we're with their other friends without them jumping all over us about it or trying to turn it into some kind of hostile debate. However, the Muslim guy can talk about his religion with the utmost respect. He in particular loves to accuse us of biggotry on account of the Crusades...almost like we were there. pfft.

This isn't directed at anyone on the forums, but of the liberals I've met, almost all of them hate Christians, dislike the Israelies, and are highly supportive of Muslims. Please don't take offense, but this is just what has occured a lot personally - I don't direct this at any of you. So I really don't think your accusation of anti-Muslim activity exemplifying Mainstream is accurate, but more or less a personal bias.
 
GhostValkyrie said:
Umm...what does A past leader's support of Saddam have to do with Iraqi elections? BTW, our country's leader was not the only one that supported Saddam. France and the Soviet Union were his primary suppliers, and a few Mid East states were and still are political supporters to him.
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the point was that if the US installed saddam in the first place (which it didn't actually), that that should make one think twice about future appointees by our government. of course it assumes a lot, but it's a fair point to make, were it based in fact :)

of course the US has helped empower/prop-up dictators elsewhere, so you could make a similar arguement based on several other examples (guatemala, laos, iran, angola, etc...). again, it's a fair, debatable point.
 
Yeah, but I was talking about the Iraqis having elections, not us appointing a leader.
 
GhostValkyrie said:
I'm Christian, and my friends and I can't talk about God or Jesus when we're with their other friends without them jumping all over us about it or trying to turn it into some kind of hostile debate.
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you need better friends :)
 
GhostValkyrie said:
Yeah, but I was talking about the Iraqis having elections, not us appointing a leader.
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ahh, sorry. i didn't read the context as well as i should have. but you can make similar arguements if you assume that thte iraqi elections aren't entirely democratic ("elect from our fine selection of US-friendly politicians").

..
...
.. or something :|

edit: double-post means hl2.net sends me $5 right?
 
Lil' Timmy said:
you need better friends :)
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Oh, believe me, they're not my friends. But friends of my friends...well, more like acquaintances we play StarCraft with once a month. It's sad, we can't go one game without them bringing up how America is the worste place in the world, they hate it, they hate Bush, blah blah blah. What's really hipocrticial is that two of them are from foreign countries on scholarships our country provided for them. The worste country in the world is paying for their education and all their books... :dozey: One of the two though is really nice, he really doesn't care about politics either.

The great thing about America is you have a voice and can make a difference, but these people also believe there's no way to make a difference and we're all under control. They believe in marching on Washington, but also want Washington to take aways our gun freedoms. These are like, the mega-violent liberals at a rally that throw bottles at cops, loot stores, and topple cars. The kind of people you want to say "Hey, shut the hell up and leave!" to.
 
GhostValkyrie said:
This isn't directed at anyone on the forums, but of the liberals I've met, almost all of them hate Christians, dislike the Israelies, and are highly supportive of Muslims. Please don't take offense, but this is just what has occured a lot personally - I don't direct this at any of you. So I really don't think your accusation of anti-Muslim activity exemplifying Mainstream is accurate, but more or less a personal bias.
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I misspoke when I said "mainstream." I don't believe most Americans harbor the hateful feelings towards Islam exemplified in the original post by Mr-Fusion. Most Americans have tolerant, open attitudes toward all religions, after all, freedom of religion is one of the basic tenets of the constitution.

However, Anti-muslim sentiment is an issue that exemplifies an ignorant, intolerant minority that needs to educate itself.
 
DarkStar said:
I misspoke when I said "mainstream." I don't believe most Americans harbor the hateful feelings towards Islam exemplified in the original post by Mr-Fusion. Most Americans have tolerant, open attitudes toward all religions, after all, freedom of religion is one of the basic tenets of the constitution.

However, Anti-muslim sentiment is an issue that exemplifies an ignorant, intolerant minority that needs to educate itself.
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Much better. This post is a lot closer to the truth.
 
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