UK Elections - Are You Voting Today?

[Solaris]

Just double-checking here. The UK system is you vote for one guy and then whoever has the most votes gets the seat? Incredibly simplistic system. You can easily end up splitting votes if more than one candidate for a party is in the one constituency.

Yeah thats how it works.

 

[Solaris]

Well Clegg just pretty much said he wouldn't form a labour coallition, so angry with him. He could have forced through PR and helped Brown stay on.

God I'll miss Gordon Brown. This is rubbish. Liberal Democrats you've had your chance and betrayed the people. I stayed up the last 38 hours for this??? ahhhh

 

[Eejit]

Clegg only said Conservatives have the first chance to try and form a government. If they try and act as if they have a majority and fail to compromise he could still go to Labour.

Rimfire, yeah First Past The Post system of voting is only even semi-fair in a two-party system - and even then it can still be rather perverse.

 

[Dynasty]

I find it astonishing how ANYONE is this country would want Gordon Brown as PM given the country's situation.

We're mad. We're crying out for change yet we vote for the party that has caused us to want change in the first place...for ***k sake.

I bet it was all the OAPs voting for Labour again. Trim the herd I say.

 

[Solaris]

I find it astonishing how ANYONE is this country would want Gordon Brown as PM given the country's situation.

We're mad. We're crying out for change yet we vote for the party that has caused us to want change in the first place...for ***k sake.

I bet it was all the OAPs voting for Labour again. Trim the herd I say.

Brown is fantastic and progressive. Great at balancing the economy with social responsibility.
I'll be very upset when he goes.

 

[Pulse]

Brown is fantastic and progressive. Great at balancing the economy with social responsibility.
I'll be very upset when he goes.

I won't.

 

[The Monkey]

Why did the Libs Dems fare so much worse on election night compared to the opinion polls? Even when looking at the percent rather than the seats? It looked so bright for them...

 

[Mr Stabby]

I don't really care who forms a government. Brown is incompetant and Cameron is a twat.

Glad Peter Robinson lost his seat, he's a dick

 

[Eejit]

I find it astonishing how ANYONE is this country would want Gordon Brown as PM given the country's situation.

We're mad. We're crying out for change yet we vote for the party that has caused us to want change in the first place...for ***k sake.

I bet it was all the OAPs voting for Labour again. Trim the herd I say.

Lesser of two evils, Labour aren't great but Conservatives are abysmal. Lib Dems just don't have much of a chance under our current system.

The elderly tend to favour the Tories tbh.

 

[PJ]

Looks Like a Lib-dem/Conservative coalition may be a possibility now, form Cameron's speech.

I wish there was enough seats for a Lib/Lab coalition. Oh well

 

[Eejit]

Cameron seems to be giving the LibDems nothing on the issue most important to them PJ. Either Lib/Lab or Lib/Con are both still plausible coalitions.

 

[repiV]

Brown is fantastic and progressive. Great at balancing the economy with social responsibility.
I'll be very upset when he goes.

If by "balancing the economy" you mean "inheriting a healthy balance sheet and leaving the country on the brink of financial ruin" and by "social responsibility" you mean "creating a society which rewards the useless, punishes the ambitious and successful, and discourages social mobility" then yes, he's absolutely fan-****ing-tastic.

If we ever have to suffer another left-wing government, it'll be too soon. Unfortunately the mindset in this country is obviously diseased since all three major parties are now left-leaning. The only question is one of extent.

 

[Eejit]

For someone so concerned with democracy you have to accept the will of the voters in choosing left-leaning parties though repiV.

 

[repiV]

For someone so concerned with democracy you have to accept the will of the voters in choosing left-leaning parties though repiV.

I can also accept that they are idiots!

Conversation with normally intelligent housemate:

"So who are you voting for then?"

"The conservatives."

"The Tories? They're not really for the working man now, are they?"

And that's how smart people make up their mind. God forbid the thought processes of the really stupid ones.

 

[Eejit]

Ah well, at least if you voted LibDem as I suggested you can hope that they'll get electoral reform through so your darling UKIP can get some seats in future.

 

[repiV]

Ah well, at least if you voted LibDem as I suggested you can hope that they'll get electoral reform through so your darling UKIP can get some seats in future.

I'd be happy to see a Lib-Con coalition on that basis. Electoral reform alone isn't enough to warrant five years of a party that has pledged not to cut government spending at a time when the size of the state really needs to be slashed in half, and which wants to take the piss even more, as if that were humanly possible, with motoring taxes and pay-per-mile road pricing.

I don't think anyone really gets the seriousness of the situation we are in. We are heading for total financial collapse, unless drastic and immediate action is taken. Just like the last time we had a long spell of Labour governments. When will people learn?

 

[Eejit]

Tories are vehemently opposed to electoral reform, it will probably hurt them most. A Lib/Lab coalition with small parties that just lasts long enough to introduce such reform and then hold a new election is my favourite scenario.

We're not that close to collapse btw, the budget deficit is fairly high but a chunk of the structural deficit will be reclaimed once the government sells its shares in RBS etc. reclaiming the bank bailout and making a profit.

 

[repiV]

Tories are vehemently opposed to electoral reform, it will probably hurt them most.

I very much disagree with them on that issue. Surely it would hurt Labour the most though.

A Lib/Lab coalition with small parties that just lasts long enough to introduce such reform and then hold a new election is my favourite scenario.

I could go for that. As long as the new election was held.

We're not that close to collapse btw, the budget deficit is fairly high but a chunk of the structural deficit will be reclaimed once the government sells its shares in RBS etc. reclaiming the bank bailout and making a profit.

If nothing else, the size of the state as it is now would have been considered pure fantasy in the not too distant past. 52% of GDP?! What kind of spineless, hive-minded pussies are we that we need a government so all-encompassing that it spends the majority of the nation's wealth?

And it's not only immoral, it's also unsustainable. As we are now seeing. Besides which, I came from nothing and worked tirelessly for everything I have. I don't see why I should be arseraped by the government for all they can take me for (and to a greater extent the harder I work), so that the perfectly healthy dole-scrounging woman who lives next door to my dad can spend all day and night in the pub getting drunk on her benefit money. Or to pay for some utter clueless twunt to earn £40k a year and a final salary pension working for the council as a "diversity officer", when in a free economy they would be sweeping the streets. Or to pay for the government to advertise on TV and tell me how to live my life.

"Fairness". A political buzzword these days. Too bad it's so completely misused. That is what really boils my piss about politics in this country. Supposedly then, it's "unfair" to have grammar schools because it might give bright children an "advantage". Very revealing of what left-wing thought is really all about - bringing everyone else down to the lowest common denominator. God forbid that anyone should have the audacity to rise above their station.

 

[Eejit]

I very much disagree with them on that issue. Surely it would hurt Labour the most though.

I think it's more a case that more of the population support Lib and Lab than the slightly-more-right and isolated Tories, so they'd more likely to be stuck as opposition under PR - at least in the short and medium-term.
A Lib/Lab coalition should at least tame some of Labours worst policies - Lib Dems are very pro-civil liberties for example unlike the rather authoritarian New Labour (and indeed Tories).


I'll just leave the rest of your post aside, I don't think the two of us can agree on most of those issues and it may derail the thread if we went into them too much

 

[jimbo118]

Wonder how long Peter Robinson has left as head of the DUP?

Also, his wife, still kinda want(after a few bevvies).

 

[CR0M]

I voted for Oliver Cromwell.

Oliver Cromwell yesterday

 

[Llama]

Why did the Libs Dems fare so much worse on election night compared to the opinion polls? Even when looking at the percent rather than the seats? It looked so bright for them...

Percentage wise there isn't much of a difference.
They get screwed over because of the first past the post system, they have around 20-25% of the popular vote but because it's spread out they win almost no seats, whereas parties like the Tories who don't have far higher support, but who's support is concentrated in certain areas, win the seats. Same deal with labour.

 

[Sulkdodds]

I voted for Oliver Cromwell.

Oliver Cromwell yesterday

Yeah? I voted for the bloody Diggers.

 

[Eejit]

I voted for Oliver Cromwell.

Oliver Cromwell yesterday

Go DIAF and take that bastard Cromwell with you!

 

[Sulkdodds]

Now, now, boys, you might need to form a coalition.

So let's see:

Tories - 30% of the vote, 47% of the seats.
Labour - 29% of the vote, 40% of the seats.
Lib Dems - 23% of the vote, 9% of the seats.

Interestingly, this isn't really much more outlandish than ordinary election results under our system. I was rather hoping the percentage vote would provide an increased justification for electoral reform. But nope!

 

[Eejit]

Number of votes received divided by number of seats:
Conservatives: 35,000
Labour: 33,300
Liberal Democrats: 120,000
Scottish National Party: 82,000
Plaid Cymru: 55,000

Messed up or what?

 

[Mr Stabby]

Wonder how long Peter Robinson has left as head of the DUP?

Also, his wife, still kinda want(after a few bevvies).

The DUP are quite cult like and don't tend to have infighting. I dont think the alternative leaders in the party are capable of forcing him to go and I don't think he intends on resiegning.

 

[-Psy-]

More figures akin to Eejit's post. http://www.lightrefrain.net/election2010/ What a load of toss this system is.

 

[Laivasse]

The whole telecomms infrastructure for this town went down on election night and hasn't been fixed until this afternoon. I missed my cosy all-nighter with Dimbleby! **** this country, URNGHHHH

/goes to swing a leprechaun against a lamp post

 

[repiV]

I think it's more a case that more of the population support Lib and Lab than the slightly-more-right and isolated Tories, so they'd more likely to be stuck as opposition under PR - at least in the short and medium-term.
A Lib/Lab coalition should at least tame some of Labours worst policies - Lib Dems are very pro-civil liberties for example unlike the rather authoritarian New Labour (and indeed Tories).

Unfortunately, civil liberties without economic liberties are nothing more than privileges bestowed upon us by our masters. It's a mere illusion of freedom. Social freedom creates choice, but it's economic freedom that creates true liberty and self-determination.

In a very high tax economy such as ours, it's almost impossible to become independently wealthy. My ambition is to make so much money that I don't have to work, and can go away and do all the things that are really important to me. Something that, in a lot of the world, I think is very achievable for an intelligent and driven person who is really motivated to do so - but not in the UK.

50% tax rate on £150k+ (60% including NI, 70% including the employer's contribution)? At the end of the day, you're not rich on a six-figure salary. You still have to work to keep a roof over your head. In that way, we're all "working class" these days.

I'll just leave the rest of your post aside, I don't think the two of us can agree on most of those issues and it may derail the thread if we went into them too much

On another note, did you read about the guy in Norfolk who lost his seat to a game of cards? That's gotta hurt.

 

[kupocake]

Number of votes received divided by number of seats:
Conservatives: 35,000
Labour: 33,300
Liberal Democrats: 120,000
Scottish National Party: 82,000
Plaid Cymru: 55,000

Messed up or what?

Messed up? Sort of. But I notice you haven't attempted to divide the scary UKIP or BNP numbers by zero. They make proportional representation that little less palatable.

 

[repiV]

Messed up? Sort of. But I notice you haven't attempted to divide the scary UKIP or BNP numbers by zero. They make proportional representation that little less palatable.

And the UKIP are scary why?

 

[Bob_Marley]

And the UKIP are scary why?

One of the (few) advantages of maintaining a FPTP system is it keeps the extremist parties out. With PR UKIP might gain a significant foothold in parliament.

As cynical as it may sound, by maintaing the current sytem though we are restricted in choice its very unlikly that we'll end up with a lunatic with parliamentary majority in his favour to sort it out which should hopefully mean a move toward a peaceful Europe.

 

[repiV]

One of the (few) advantages of maintaining a FPTP system is it keeps the extremist parties out. With PR UKIP might gain a significant foothold in parliament.

As cynical as it may sound, by maintaing the current sytem though we are restricted in choice its very unlikly that we'll end up with a lunatic with parliamentary majority in his favour to sort it out which should hopefully mean a move toward a peaceful Europe.

How exactly are the UKIP 'extremists'?

 

[Eejit]

Messed up? Sort of. But I notice you haven't attempted to divide the scary UKIP or BNP numbers by zero. They make proportional representation that little less palatable.

If some voters support them, so be it. It's not fair to disenfranchise BNP voters no matter how distasteful they are.

 

[Mr Stabby]

In Germany they have PR but a party needs a 4% minimum of the national vote to get seats, That way their neo-nazi party the NDP have no seat in the Bundestag.

 

[Bob_Marley]

How exactly are the UKIP 'extremists'?

In the way that I was hammered when I wrote that and chose my words poorly.

 

[xdrive]

BNP members must be pretty upset after finding out that their party is actually a money making scam.

They must be also upset that the party isn't actually run by Nick Griffin, but Jim Dowson.

 

[The Monkey]

BNP members being upset should be viewed as a success in any context.

 

[xdrive]

I am surprised the media haven't picked up on the massive scam yet?

The BNPs web manger spilled it all in a huge letter to the public.

Basically nearly all donations are pocketed by nick griffin and his wife and a couple of other high level officials.

The BNP web manger also released letters and evidence of BNP people trying to steal his work and trying to illegally download things off his website.

He also released letters of jim dowson telling him how to write letters to the BNP members and to include things like "PARTY IS IN TROUBLE, DONATE RIGHT NOW!" to increase donations that they can pocket.