US national draft next year?

[ShadowFox]

YOU MEAN AFTER ALL THIS YOU CANT VOTE!!!!!!!???????





all those months of trying to get you to see the light ...wasted

See the light?

I hate Bush, I just don't agree with you guys all of the time. I am much more of a moderate liberal, whereas some of you are true diehards. :thumbs:

Yeah, I can't vote. I turn 18 in June.

 

[seinfeldrules]

btw seinfeldrules I suspect you have less in common with shadowfox than you think

Not from this topic anyways...

And shadow, you're nonvote is offset by mine

 

[Yuri]

Please don't bash each other like every other goddamn political thread... it gets rather boring having them all locked, eh?

I don't exactly enjoy being called a "pussy" for not wanting to risk my life, and kill others, for a cause that I do not beleive in. I don't want to die, be wounded, and I don't want the psychological burden of killing others. I want to live my life the way I want to live my life and not have some authority send me to some place where people try to kill me and I try to kill them because authority says its a good idea. I like to beleive that I have some control over my own life.

I'm not a coward. If there is a reason to defend something with my life, then I will do it. If my family was in any danger, I would risk my life to help them. But I won't risk my life for something I don't beleive in. And I won't be told to do so, either.

So you may call me a coward, a pussy and a draft-dodger, but it is my life, and I'll do with it what I will.

:monkee: Teh monkey releives the seriousness of ma post.

 

[seinfeldrules]

But I won't risk my life for something I don't beleive in.

So you dont believe in your country?

 

[Yuri]

So you dont believe in your country?

I beleive in myself. And I'm not going to just agree with everything my country says, that wouldn't be democracy, would it? Besides, they were wrong about the entire point of going to war there... (There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, as stated by our country)

 

[seinfeldrules]

And I'm not going to just agree with everything my country says, that wouldn't be democracy, would it?

Democracy is the right to vote for leaders to make the decisions for the people, then vote for new ones as needed. Imagine if we had a country of 250 million people and they all decided to do what they wanted. Hell, its democracy right?

 

[CptStern]

So you dont believe in your country?

i dont know what it is but every time you speak I hear Stars and Stripes Forever playing in the background.

You're freakin' Captian america man! :thumbs:

 

[seinfeldrules]

i dont know what it is but every time you speak I hear Stars and Stripes Forever playing in the background.

You're freakin' Captian america man!

I wouldnt mind that at all. I do prefer Superman though (as does Seinfeld)...

 

[CptStern]

hah no surprise there! I'm more of a lois lane

 

[CyberSh33p]

I beleive in myself. And I'm not going to just agree with everything my country says, that wouldn't be democracy, would it? Besides, they were wrong about the entire point of going to war there... (There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, as stated by our country)

Indeed, and seinfeldrules, honestly, your post("So you don't believe in your country?" or whatever) is just abysmal really. Its this blind patriotism or belief in one thing that gets people in trouble.

Loving your country is a good thing, and most who care enough to say what they feel and dissent and want to change it for the better love it more than those who just float along with it.

Plainly and clearly: Disagreeing with the government does not mean you hate your country.

also, consider your logic. It seems you say that if your country asks you to go to war, you will. Thats nice, but you come off as saying that even if the war is unjust, you will, and thats how stuff like World War II comes about. Blind nationalism(not to compare us to the nazis, only example I could think of) isn't a good thing at all. Any nationalism isn't a good thing actually. And keep in mind the government isn't just going to tell you its unjust, they'll try to make you believe they're right(even now after having admitted there were no WMDs they still try to spin it in their favor.)

anyway, I have ranted too much. back to trig.

addendum: seinfeldrules, your interpretation of a democracy is also skewed, we don't live in a true democracy, we live in a representative democracy, which is what you described, in a true democracy 250 million people would all vote on every issue without a middle man and such. Or less middle men anyway, there'd still have to be organization to keep the votes fair and all that stuff.

 

[Yuri]

Democracy is the right to vote for leaders to make the decisions for the people, then vote for new ones as needed. Imagine if we had a country of 250 million people and they all decided to do what they wanted. Hell, its democracy right?

So. You're saying, we are a country that votes for a dictatorship, but at least that dictatorship changes every four years?

Main Entry: de·moc·ra·cy
Pronunciation: di-'mä-kr&-sE
Function: noun
Inflected Form: plural -cies
1 a : government by the people; especially : rule of the majority b : a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections

When you vote for someone, you are voting for them to represent you.

I'm not saying I want to do anything I want, and yeah, I think I came off a little like that. Sorry. Anarchy is a very, very stupid idea. I beleive that everyone must follow the law as it is now, for the most part. And if you do something bad, you go to jail for it. Makes sense. Drafting is a completely different story, however. They are telling you to sacrifice your life as you know it.

Wow, I need to sleep soon Gotta get up for the school Smilies rock.

 

[seinfeldrules]

I'm more of a lois lane

Nah, I'd give you an Xavier type figure. Possibly Magneto.

 

[seinfeldrules]

Its this blind patriotism or belief in one thing that gets people in trouble.

Sigh. I am not ignorant in my patriotism, I just have a special respect for my country. Is there something wrong with that?

and most who care enough to say what they feel and dissent and want to change it for the better love it more than those who just float along with it

Whoa, I dissent (against the left usually) all the time. I try to change the country to fit my conservative goals all the time. That doesnt mean I wouldnt serve under a Democratic leader though.

also, consider your logic. It seems you say that if your country asks you to go to war, you will. Thats nice, but you come off as saying that even if the war is unjust, you will, and thats how stuff like World War II comes about.

I know where to draw the line. I hate to say it, but I'm not as stupid as you people like to think.

seinfeldrules, your interpretation of a democracy is also skewed, we don't live in a true democracy, we live in a representative democracy, which is what you described

Yes, I know that, but it would be impossible to have a true democracy in a country this large.


Eresthreux from here down

So. You're saying, we are a country that votes for a dictatorship, but at least that dictatorship changes every four years?

You forget the Congress and Supreme Court which can override his decisions, and also impeach him.

Wow, I need to sleep soon Gotta get up for the school

Agreed. Good night.

 

[aeroripper]

I'm not saying I want to do anything I want, and yeah, I think I came off a little like that. Sorry. Anarchy is a very, very stupid idea.

Anarchy isn't such a bad thing... do to other people as what they would do to you... course it means eye for an eye but for a society to live in pure anarchy nothing would ever get done cause nobody would ever be above anybody.

Of course you'd have all the freedom in the world and if you did something wrong you'd probably just get your ass kicked or killed.

I don't think it'd work for a long period of time though, just because sooner or later people want to work together to make shelter, get food, etc...

The whole anarchy thing has been so commercialized beyond belief anymore... i find the kids wearing the Anarchy shirts ironic, because it was a corporation that printed it on there and you bought it although your against establishment. Therefore by wearing it your really contradicting everything it stands for.

the 80s were all about "i am more punk than you"... that whole scene

now its just pop culture... kind of sickning what its turned into

You forget the Congress and Supreme Court which can override his decisions, and also impeach him.

heh, not when all 3 branches are the same party and you have a a-hole guy in the executive branch... least very unlikely... i find it funny how clinton was impeached over the whole monica thing (well he lied under oath for the technicalities) but Bush breaks international laws time and time again and is considered a war criminal, yet he will never get impeached. Guess it shows what's really more important to the country......................

 

[WillH]

I'm gonna throw in my opinion on a draft before I goto sleep. First off, I would scared as hell to fight to begin with. The idea of killing somebody I don't know other than that they are on the other side scares me. While this sounds pretty damn selfish, the only other thing that scares me more than that is being killed by said other guy I don't know. My personal beliefs are that I don't believe in a higher power, so I'm pretty sure when I die thats it I'm done, very little is worth that.

The idea of being told by my country that they think a war is worth my and hundreds, thousands or more of the lives of my countrymen freaks me out. When somebody has the power to say, "You are going to go fight and possibly die for a war you didn't want to fight but were chosen to fight" thats when I say "**** you." if that means I goto jail and am ostercized by others, so be it. Now on the flip side of that coin, if the war is something I believed strongly enough in I would sign up myself. Either way a draft wouldn't make me fight more or less, call me a draft dodger call me whatever, but my life is mine. I also would never feel I have to right to tell other people that they should die for their country.

Sorry if that was long rambling and made no sense but it was what kinda came to mind to me.

 

[Yuri]

Aeroripper:

anarchy

\An"arch*y\, n. [Gr. ?: cf. F. anarchie. See Anarch.] 1. Absence of government; the state of society where there is no law or supreme power; a state of lawlessness; political confusion.

Anarchy is simply the lack of goverment and order.

Which is a system where people just do what they want, The Survival of the Fittest. There is no order. It isn't "an eye for an eye" because there is no government to enforce it.

I routinely ask kids that wear the A (A is for Anarchy) symbols "Do you know what Anarchy is?" I almost want to beat the shit out of all of them and steal their wallets, to show them.

 

[Cybernoid]

Have any of you heard about a draft being drawn up next year? I've heard things about this but i can't find many articles...

I'm worried about the "War on Terror" not being restricted to one nation, but warring with the whole world under a childish philosophy of "your either against us or with us on terror"

Personally i can really see this happening... seeing as how our military is spread hair thin around the globe... soldiers getting multiple tour of duties even after their suppose to go home...

I know its easy for politicians and old men to declare a draft but we're the ones that have to go fight it...

I'm 21,single so i'd probably be one of the first batches to go

Drafting must suck, especially when the war is not worth fighting. I can't really understand professional soldiers complaining about Iraq. It's their job to get killed.

 

[-JeZ-]

Drafting must suck, especially when the war is not worth fighting. I can't really understand professional soldiers complaining about Iraq. It's their job to get killed.

Holy shit Cybernoid, I hope you've got a lifetime guarantee on that asbestos suit becuase that last comment was unbelievably heartless. Professional soldiers are not Klingon-esque. They do not believe that it's glorious to die in battle. They are just like you and me, but have chosen a martial career instead of the 'softer' careers that most of us choose.

Take your head out of your arse and breathe the fresh air before posting ignorant comments like that in the future.

TOASTIE!!!

 

[Cybernoid]

Holy shit Cybernoid, I hope you've got a lifetime guarantee on that asbestos suit becuase that last comment was unbelievably heartless. Professional soldiers are not Klingon-esque. They do not believe that it's glorious to die in battle. They are just like you and me, but have chosen a martial career instead of the 'softer' careers that most of us choose.

Take your head out of your arse and breathe the fresh air before posting ignorant comments like that in the future.

TOASTIE!!!

If they don't want to get killed they shouldn't go to war (no draft has been issued, so it's their choice). It's pretty simple.

 

[-JeZ-]

I was just objecting to your "it's their job to get killed" comment. Being in the army doesn't mean your destined to die m8.

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

GOD please no draft... You whiney tots just stay the hell out of my Cavalry.

BTW - My units been at full strength since 9-11. We're getting tougher making sure people stay current and qualified. IE fail a physical Fittness Test and BAM you're out. In the past you might get to try it again next year but with so many people looking for slots we don't give anyone a second chance any more. I booted two from my Platoon last year. Looks like I'm going to send another packing this year if he doesn't get to school.

So don't believe all the bull you hear. Anyone talking about a draft is doing it for political reasons not practical reasons.

 

[Cybernoid]

Shellback, why are you in Iraq in the first place?

 

[CptStern]

Shellback, why are you in Iraq in the first place?

no! dont do it man! you're inviting all the crazies!




disclaimer: may or may not be true

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Its not a soldiers job to die. Honestly, what kind of idiot would want men willing to die? Really, lets just ponder over this for a moment people...Just think about the phrase willing to die for the cause and how silly it really is.

Just to make it a little more obvious for those of you who the point is lost in...


You want people willing to live and possibly kill


But yeah, a soldier is not in the army to die. He is there for whatever reason he chooses. (Which could I suppose be to die, but the army doesn't want suicidal people.) Although ultimately I suppose someone higher up the ladder would argue soldiers are there to do as they are told.

 

[No Limit]

ShadowFox, so what you are saying is that we should serve in the president's war to support the country even if we morally disagree with the war? So if Bush ****s up and it turns out we need more people than they said we would we should all start being patriotic and join the military? Joining the military is a choice, and until Bush decided it was a good idea to go into Iraq we didn't need more people to volunteer.

I don't think it is right for someone that avoided the draft himself has the right to start it especially when he was the one that f*cked up.

However, I do not think there will be a draft. Things in Iraq will probably start getting better and we will need less troops. Besides, a draft would totally destroy the party which is in power.

 

[ShadowFox]

Drafting must suck, especially when the war is not worth fighting. I can't really understand professional soldiers complaining about Iraq. It's their job to get killed.

This is one of the dumbest statements I have ever seen.

No Limit, what I later elaborated was that if they have a legitimate ethical issue, fine. But if they were to dodge a supposed draft just because they don't want to give up their fancy life style, then I find them despicable.

 

[No Limit]

No Limit, what I later elaborated was that if they have a legitimate ethical issue, fine. But if they were to dodge a supposed draft just because they don't want to give up their fancy life style, then I find them despicable.

Sorry I didn't see your post about the ethical, everytime you have a political thread it fills up with 100s of pages in minutes. Anyway, the ethical reasons weren't really my point. Why should we have to give up our life style? If there is a huge war like WW2 where the fate of the world depends on it I can understand it. However, forcing someone to go to war because the president felt like going to war is wrong. I have the highest respect for soldiers, but all the soldiers in the Army now wanted to be soldiers. Some people don't want to be soldiers, what is wrong with that? If we didn't have an unneeded war on our hands the point is that we would get along fine without a draft and those of us that wanted to go into the military could. Simple as that. Also, I don't want to make this sound like an attack as it isn't, but how long did you serve in the military?

 

[ShadowFox]

I am not really refering to a specific situation. And I consider that to be ethics. If you believe ethically that the war is wrong, then you have a reason. See, you are refering to the current situation, whereas I am refering to generally at any time.

You're right, some folks don't want to be soldiers. I still stand by my later point though, that IMO having some sort of mandatory service requirement would produce better citizens overall.

And I have not served in the military, as I am 17. But I don't see how that renders my opinion obsolete.

 

[Kangy]

Drafting for the future is the stupidest thing possible.

Ugh, it disgusts me they could even think of in this day and age.

 

[ShadowFox]

Drafting for the future is the stupidest thing possible.

Ugh, it disgusts me they could even think of in this day and age.

Well then I guess you are disgusted with:

China
Finland
Germany
Greece
Israel
Lebanon
Netherlands
Russia
Singapore
Slovakia
Sweden
Switzerland
South Korea
Taiwan

All have mandatory conscription.

 

[Cybernoid]

This is one of the dumbest statements I have ever seen.

So you are suggesting that soldiers are not supposed to risk their lives in war, and possibly die? What is their job, then?

 

[ShadowFox]

So you are suggesting that soldiers are not supposed to risk their lives in war, and possibly die? What is their job, then?

Convenient change of wording. Their job isn't to die. Their job is to insure the security of their nation. Dieing is a risk you take, but it isn't your job.

Your comment was offensive, and supplanting words doesn't change your intent.

 

[Kangy]

Well then I guess you are disgusted with:

China
Finland
Germany
Greece
Israel
Lebanon
Netherlands
Russia
Singapore
Slovakia
Sweden
Switzerland
South Korea
Taiwan

All have mandatory conscription.

Slightly less. They've always had drafting, war or no war. Whilst there's no legit. reason for it, it isn't on the same level as drafting many 100,000's of thousands for unjustified wars against neutral or harmless countries.

 

[Cybernoid]

Your comment was offensive

Gee, that's really uncommon on the Internet.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Please cut down on this, frankly, petty arguing.