US Thwart's al Qaeda Terrorism in L.A.

[Yuri]

CNN Article​

Shortly after 9/11, al Qaeda began planning to use shoe bombers to hijack a commercial airplane and fly it into the tallest building in Los Angeles, President Bush said Thursday.

Bush credited international cooperation in the war on terrorism with saving American lives.

"The West Coast plot shows we face a relentless and determined enemy that requires unprecedented cooperation from other nations," he said.

"By working together, we stopped a catastrophic attack."

I feel as if things like this do not get enough press, when they most certainly should.

 

[clarky003]

The plot was set in motion by Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the alleged mastermind of the September 11, 2001, attacks,

I could of sworn they said it was Bin Laden who masterminded it just after 9/11... lol

If the bush administration can confirm it with some proof other than saying we saw this and did that then well done, I just dont trust their word anymore im sure they will say whatever they have to to keep people thinking that the war was a good idea.

 

[Yuri]

I could of sworn they said it was Bin Laden who masterminded it just after 9/11... lol

If the bush administration can confirm it with some proof other than saying we saw this and did that then well done, I just dont trust their word anymore im sure they will say whatever they have to to keep people thinking that the war was a good idea.

If the war you are referencing is the war in Iraq, these terrorist attacks are completely seperate from it.

 

[clarky003]

Of course they are, but they were the reasoning behind it if you remember. The attacks and claimed wmd 'justify' the reason to be in Iraq.

 

[CptStern]

why dont they ask the mastermind himself?

Khalid Shaikh Mohammed:

"On October 12, 2004, Human Rights Watch reported that 11 suspects, including Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, had "disappeared" to a semisecret prison in Jordan, and might have been tortured there under the direction of the CIA ([1], [2], [3]). Jordanian and American officials have denied those allegations. ([4], [5]). He has allegedly been subjected to the waterboarding interrogation technique[6]. More than two years after his arrest, Mohammed has not yet stood trial."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_Shaikh_Mohammed#Attempts_at_capture


if he was indeed responsible for the planned attack and 9/11 why has he disappeared from the face of the earth ?

 

[Kangy]

The details were the first about the West Coast airliner plot, which was thwarted in 2002

:/ Shows how effective the War in Afghanistan was at stopping it at the source, though, as opposed to actually having to thwart them when they're in progress.

 

[Ome_Vince]

hmz, funny actually. I dont really know what to believe about this:

-Few weeks ago: on the news a statement that Al Qaeda claimed "usa was not safe, reason no terrorist attacks in USA since 9/11 is because Al Qaeda didnt try any"

-Bush: "Al Qaeda planned to fly jets in LA's tallest buildings with shoe bombs"

It sounds like both parties are loud-mouthing atm..

 

[Yuri]

If you believe an Al Qaeda news statement over a US one... eh..

Obviously, since there have been no successful attacks, Al Qaeda will state that there were none attempted.

 

[Lemonking]

I remember the Police arresting some ex Konvicts for making terror plans a while agao,but I think this is another story

 

[CptStern]

If you believe an Al Qaeda news statement over a US one... eh..

Obviously, since there have been no successful attacks, Al Qaeda will state that there were none attempted.

not to play devils advocate but the current US government has absolutely zero credibility ..maybe not to osama's extent but pretty damn close

 

[gick]

TBH, I'm not entirely convinced by this, but I guess no terrorist attacks can only be a good thing.

 

[Yuri]

not to play devils advocate but the current US government has absolutely zero credibility ..maybe not to osama's extent but pretty damn close

You cannot possibly say that the credibility of the US government is almost as bad as Osama's. You simply can't compare a terrorist organization to this nation. I'm sorry, Stern, but that's just crossing the line.

 

[CptStern]

I mean in terms of telling the truth ..I'm not comparing them to al qaeda

 

[DeusExMachina]

I'm sure stern doesn't see us as that good of a nation .

Anyway, sounds like good news. Good news is always good.

 

[Yuri]

I mean in terms of telling the truth ..I'm not comparing them to al qaeda

You're comparing their ability to tell the truth. You're saying that a terrorist organization that regularly brainwashes people to kill themselves in the name of murder and destruction lies only a bit more than the US government.

I'm not saying our government doesn't lie. But I'm saying that they are incomparible.

 

[CptStern]

heh yes I'm comparing their ability to tell the truth because in both cases it's non-existent ..within varying degrees

a lie is a lie is a lie

 

[Icarusintel]

Having a father who has clearance to information about such things he tells me all the time that we're constantly stopping terrorist plots. Oh, and it's not just him, it's also one of my teachers who happens to be a "government contractor" also. So, I would have to say I believe this. Besides, they want to attack again, they just haven';t been able to do it right.

 

[Yuri]

I don't understand what is so difficult about going over the Mexican border, making some homemade explosives, and blowing people up.

If I wanted to I could certainly kill hundreds of people without having to obtain anything suspicious, especially if I didn't care about self-preservation. Probably harder to do for people not living in this country, but I know that some borders aren't hard to cross undetected...

 

[K e r b e r o s]

not to play devils advocate but the current US government has absolutely zero credibility ..maybe not to osama's extent but pretty damn close

I find nethire credible. After seeing what Al-Qaeda did to Daniel Pearl, a Reporter who was Jewish, I really would'nt trust them or Bin Laden. Not with a ten foot pole mind you, but maybe a ten foot Bangalore stick.

What he said: tell the truth because in both cases it's non-existent ..within varying degrees

THAT: a lie is a lie is a

No offense Stern, but if there are varying degree's of truths, how can you then say well, THAT?

 

[CptStern]

No offense Stern, but if there are varying degree's of truths, how can you then say well, THAT?

well I'm stumped ..what exactly do you mean?

 

[K e r b e r o s]

You said they're were varying degrees of the truth, and yet, you believe a lie is a lie. I follow Fox Mulder's theory, that they're are no versions of the truth. And the only versions that exists are lies or things that have'nt been proven yet. (On to topic tho)

I guess what I'm interrepted from your message is that both Bin Laden and the US government are capable of lying yet are also capable of telling ...the truth? truths? Half truths?

Then, I think was your reference of; a lie is a lie is a lie, and that has me really confused because if what I think your saying is true, Bin laden lies, Bush lies, but they're also telling the truth. What these truths would be, I don't really know.

I do believe in Grey area's but you're post just scrambled me. [And I'm not trying to be disrespectful]

 

[CptStern]

You said they're were varying degrees of the truth, and yet, you believe a lie is a lie.

I guess what I've interrepted from your message, is that both Bin Laden and the US government is capable of lying yet, is also capable of telling ... truths? Half truths?

Then, I think was your reference of; a lie is a lie is a lie, and that has me really confused because if what I think your saying is true, Bin laden lies, Bush lies, but they're also telling the truth?

I do believe in Grey area's but you're post just scrambled me.

jeez you really know how to complicate an issue ..no ..I meant

a lie is still a lie, it doesnt matter who telling it

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Oh well, then in that case, yes I do know how to complicate things.

 

[clarky003]

Well I just watched an interview with a US correspondent on BBC news 24, and they can see straight through it, suggesting that considering the bush admins all round not so popular position, this story is being talked about now to try and sway public opinion again into feeling the war or 'terror' and going into Iraq was worth it.

Although no one will forget the false pretences even though he seems to think people will just over look the lies... from that viewpoint he comes across as patronising, treating people like no brain idiot's again.

 

[DeusExMachina]

If they wanted to sway public opinion, they'd bomb a building and claim an Al-Qaeda terrorist cell from Iraq did it. Announcing that they stopped a little plane hijacking isn't going to do anything. They've probably done it more than once.

 

[clarky003]

of course it will do something, its psychological and not everyone questions their words.. its mere suggestion reafirm's their position at the very least, without having to pull any expensive coup de etat's.

.. and if anyone questions that intention, there is recent proof in the obtained pre war memo's that Bush and Blair in a meeting conspired to send a surveilance plane along with jets at low altitude into Iraq to encourage them to fire at it to give another reason for invasion if intial claims failed.

you can watch that on channel 4 news here... http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11766.htm

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

I could of sworn they said it was Bin Laden who masterminded it just after 9/11... lol

If the bush administration can confirm it with some proof other than saying we saw this and did that then well done, I just dont trust their word anymore im sure they will say whatever they have to to keep people thinking that the war was a good idea.

Bin Laden lead the organization that carried it out. Khalid Sheik Mohammad actually planned the idea out itself, schematics guys etc. Bin Laden is (er, was) his superior. No one has ever said otherwise.

What does this have to do with Iraq at all?

 

[Yuri]

What does this have to do with Iraq at all?

Terror was one of the supposed reasons we went to war, right after the first lie about weapons of mass destruction.

And this is pretty big, an entire building filled with people could have been killed. Of course this was probably under wraps for some reason, until Bush read (or had someone read him) his approval ratings.

I still don't get why it is so hard to kill a few people. Because it isn't.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Terror was one of the supposed reasons we went to war, right after the first lie about weapons of mass destruction.

And this is pretty big, an entire building filled with people could have been killed. Of course this was probably under wraps for some reason, until Bush read (or had someone read him) his approval ratings.

I still don't get why it is so hard to kill a few people. Because it isn't.

Khalid Sheikh Mohammad wasn't captured in Iraq, he was captured by Pakistanis. The planned attack was long before we even invaded Iraq. This doesn't really connect to Iraq in the least. I also don't see how this helps or hurts his approval ratings. It doesn't say they prevented it, it says the plan failed and they found out after they captured him.

In other words. While interrogating him they found out he was going to do something else but his plan fell through after a Southeast Asian nation captured one of his operatives. Has little to do with Bush or Iraq.

 

[MuToiD_MaN]

If this really happened back then, why did they wait until just now to announce that this attack was thwarted?

 

[satch919]

If this really happened back then, why did they wait until just now to announce that this attack was thwarted?

Because Bush and the intelligence community want to look good in the public eye.

Sadly, I don't trust really trust anything my government tells me. Honesty isn't something that's too comfortable with politicians.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

It doesn't even make sense to lie about something like this. It's not a helping or hurting thing for the administration. Not everything is some crazy conspiracy, especially something that basically means nothing now. In fact, probably why they waited, so it would be nothing now for sure.

 

[satch919]

It doesn't even make sense to lie about something like this. It's not a helping or hurting thing for the administration. Not everything is some crazy conspiracy, especially something that basically means nothing now. In fact, probably why they waited, so it would be nothing now for sure.

Sure it makes sense. These are the same people who invaded another country based on lies; lies they knowingly spread.

Secondly, seeing as his administration is under fire for domestic spying, he chose today to finally reveal a twarted plot to bolster support for his wiretapping program. Senior officials here in CA weren't even aware of such a plot until now. You'd think that they would have been notified, right?

Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa said Thursday he was blindsided by Bush’s announcement and described communication with the White House as “nonexistent.”

“I’m amazed that the president would make this [announcement] on national TV and not inform us of these details through the appropriate channels,” the mayor told The Associated Press. “I don’t expect a call from the president — but somebody.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11254053/

Other questions that some people raised includes: Bush says that a shoe bomb was going to be used to breach the cockpit and steer the craft into a Los Angeles building. Wouldn't a shoe bomb take out the cockpit and down the whole aircraft thus missing the L.A. buildings? Also, when the White House finally revealed the plot in a memo, it was 'brief and vague'. Hell, they wouldn't even release the names of the operatives who were arrested.

I question his claims because neither he or his administration has proven themselves to be trustworthy.

 

[VictimOfScience]

In the words of Yellowbeard (Graham Chapman):

Never trust a woman or a government!

I agree that the government cannot ever be trusted--I don't know of any governemnt that is totally honest with its people. Thats not the way politics works and everyone knows it. And of course you can't trust a terrorist organization to tell the truth--that is asinine in the extreme as well.

And I don't doubt that we foiled this plot and many others, I only wonder about the motives behind releasing this information. You could certainly say a lot of things about it, depending on which side of the fence you are on, but I am thinking it is to get morale up when public opinion of the President is worse than Nixon after Watergate! To tell the American people, "Look! I did do something good--I saved all of your asses! So start supporting the war (on Terror, on Iraq, on Iran, on Syria, etc etc etc). Its all just politics, but if its politics AND lives are saved, then that is okay in my book.

 

[MuToiD_MaN]

Watergate was like the "gateway" scandal to what we recognize as modern U.S. government behavior.

 

[Ome_Vince]

It doesn't even make sense to lie about something like this. It's not a helping or hurting thing for the administration. Not everything is some crazy conspiracy, especially something that basically means nothing now. In fact, probably why they waited, so it would be nothing now for sure.

Like i said, its weird that al Qaida states "we havent tried anything in the USA, thats why there hasnt been an attack, so you americans dont go feeling your safe".

Few weeks later -> Bush: "blabla we've stopped an Al Qaida attack back then"

There's bigger issues involved here, the Bush administration's motive would be to make the people think they were/are doing good work to protect America. Al Qaida's motive would be let fellow terrorists know they're still the top-monkey and no security can stop em.
:smoking:

BTw, im not stating what I believe here, just giving motives. Personally i dont know what to believe anymore in these matters...

 

[VictimOfScience]

Watergate was like the "gateway" scandal to what we recognize as modern U.S. government behavior.

Well, it certainly was a big problem, but there isn't a government out there that doesn't practice some sketchy behaivor. It just happens that being the only world superpower left puts the US on the main stage to be examined at a microscopic level for every little thing. The rest of the civilized world looks to the US as an example and since we are all only human and subject to the inherent weaknesses as such, others can only deride and criticize because the lens isn't focused on them. Proving them right, though, time and time again gets a little old though.

 

[CptStern]

Well, it certainly was a big problem, but there isn't a government out there that doesn't practice some sketchy behaivor. It just happens that being the only world superpower left puts the US on the main stage to be examined at a microscopic level for every little thing. The rest of the civilized world looks to the US as an example and since we are all only human and subject to the inherent weaknesses as such, others can only deride and criticize because the lens isn't focused on them. Proving them right, though, time and time again gets a little old though.

that's kinda watering down the truth ..the criticism is leveled for good reason ..and it didnt start with this war, it's been around for decades ..almost as long as the US' meddling in foreign countries

 

[MuToiD_MaN]

Point taken, anyway.

 

[VictimOfScience]

that's kinda watering down the truth ..the criticism is leveled for good reason ..and it didnt start with this war, it's been around for decades ..almost as long as the US' meddling in foreign countries

No, of course it didn't start with this war. Its hard to say exactly when it started, but my point is that everyone is always going to be most critical of the biggest power. Now that the Cold War is over and the USSR is no longer around to balance global power, the world is left with a tremendously huge power vaccuum and no one, let alone us, is exactly sure how to deal with it as such. Yes, please, level all the criticism you see fit--hopefully some of it will make sense to those with the power here! But please don't act like the US is the only country that has a foreign policy that could be considered "meddling." I hate to even bring it up, but was our involvement in WWII (not the Pacific front mind you) considered "meddling?" The role we played there played a big part in determining our foreign policy thenceforth and I am not entirely convinced that it is a bad thing....