Valve Responds to L4D 2 Criticism

[DigiQ8]

<div align="center"></div>

[br]Steam 'L4D2 Boycott' group claiming that "The announced content of Left 4 Dead 2 does not warrant a stand-alone, full-priced sequel and should instead become updates (free or otherwise) for Left 4 Dead," and more than 20,000 individuals (and growing at a fast rate) have signed a boycott against the game.[br]

The negative response was expected by Valve so they decided to text prominent map makers minutes after its reveal to let them know that their work would not be affected negatively by the sequel.

"Looking back, was the Orange Box a ripoff?" He said, on initial complaints at having to "buy" Half-Life 2 again in the compilation. "Give us a fair shake on this, read more about it, find out about it, we've already let people play it [at E3]... After that, if you want to vent, post to the forums. We do read them, we read all the forums."

We have yet to see more of the sequel, Valve claims that the new content are simply too huge to put in an update.

 

[barbarbarbarbar]

I'm listening , Valve ...

 

[PvtRyan]

All reasonable criticism aside (whether it's valid or not) the "fans" that have this sickening sense of entitlement over them can go suck a whole bunch of dicks.

 

[gFrohman]

QFT, first these fans complain about Valve because they delay deadlines for their games; now they complain because a new game is coming out so fast - make up your minds, people. I think we're dealing with a massive group of trolls.

 

[Asknoone]

The (scoff) 'boycott' group - a true assortment of ignorant and uninformed tools, with some very serious entitlement issues. Reasonable argument and valid complaints and concerns have been dismissed; we are now dealing with a group of people that have deviated so far from the original point of contention that they wholeheartedly believe in the wanton trash they are putting in place of reason and sense.

It is a meditation in stupidity.

 

[Sheepo]

[br]Steam 'L4D2 Boycott' group claiming that "The announced content of Left 4 Dead 2 does not warrant a stand-alone, full-priced sequel and should instead become updates (free or otherwise) for Left 4 Dead, because...

....?

 

[<RJMC>]

I am one of the few who is not batshit agianst valve?

I also whit the supposed promised free content stuff that everyone go but I think they are too hard whit valve

I think people just got used to the free stuff

valve has earned my trust of quality,more that even blizzard

 

[Absinthe]

QFT, first these fans complain about Valve because they delay deadlines for their games; now they complain because a new game is coming out so fast

Nobody would hate a Valve with a quicker release schedule in general.

I've not seen anybody on this forum address how this affects L4D's longevity and support. You all go for the arguments that are easy to dismiss.

 

[Cyber$nake]

Nobody would hate a Valve with a quicker release schedule.

People on this forum only seem to address the stupidest arguments.

Aww and we got 6 posts in without a troll!
EDIT: Thanks for removing that last part, now its reasonable. To be honest, I agree with you that it is an entirely invalid point to argue.

Everyone needs to chill out and wait for more info. As others have said, people are having some entitlement issues. We don't know enough about L4D2 and what is still going to be made available for L4D1 to have a real debate here.

 

[Asknoone]

Nobody would hate a Valve with a quicker release schedule.

But we might be inclined to question their newfound casual approach to development.

 

[Dr0ndeh]

my only real critisism of it as ive mentioned before is that if valve were to ask you to make a list, in order of how much you want them, of which valve game you want to play a sequal to.

how far would left4dead be down that list? pretty far down mine. they need to prioritise better.

 

[Cyber$nake]

my only real critisism of it as ive mentioned before is that if valve were to ask you to make a list, in order of how much you want them, of which valve game you want to play a sequal to.

how far would left4dead be down that list? pretty far down mine. they need to prioritise better.

Haha although this is an entirely different argument than what the other people have been making, I actually totally agree with you. I was REALLY hoping for some Episode 3 stuff at E3. Valve always spaced their games out, having two L4D releases within a year is unlike them, and unfortunate for me seeing as I'm really not a huge fan of L4D. Can't really complain though, I'm just one voice, millions loved it.

 

[Howser]

Everyone's entitled to their opinions as member of the boycott myself it has less to do with gaining what we are entitled to and more to do with ensuring that the l4d community gets fair treatment. More to the point the general population don't want it for free but rather as an expansion so the community wont get split. It can easily be argued that L4D's been completely neglected since release. SDK(beta) and a few simple updates compared to that of TF2's timeline?.I'll whole heartedly admit people on the boycott are flaming about the most stupid of things. But it also has some very valid points. As a L4D versus clan leader, I cant help but feel the small ammount of content they've added and are planning on adding should of came alot soon. And it certainly would of had they just not shifted into developing L4D2. I'd consider myself a valve fanboy, this l4d2 development move is what that hopefully the boycott will prevent from reoccuring for other titles. I'm pretty sure we wont be seeing it untill november.... of 2011 so i aint all that worried to be honest. As for comparing it to the orange box... its a completely different arguement. There's my points which you've all heard before. I'm off to 'suck a whole bunch of dick'. Night night

 

[Sledgehammer]

my only real critisism of it as ive mentioned before is that if valve were to ask you to make a list, in order of how much you want them, of which valve game you want to play a sequal to.

how far would left4dead be down that list? pretty far down mine. they need to prioritise better.

That's a silly argument. They're releasing Left 4 Dead 2 soon because it's nearly ready, which I assume Episode Three and Portal 2 aren't. It's probably just easier to make this game than Episode Three and Portal 2 (read: Portal 2 is probably smaller, for one). The speed at which they're making Episode Three is very questionable, I agree about that, but I expect the game to be fantastic now.

Also, Left 4 Dead would be third on that list for me.

 

[the.v.dog]

No, we hate valve for releasing L4D2 after a year, while we still haven't heard squat about Portal 2 or Episode 3.

But this is Valve we're talking about- L4D2 will actually be out November 2011.

In all sersiousness; Valve spoil us, they are probably the best company at giving out free stuff- we're still getting content for tf2 two years after release. They also tend to know what they are doing business wise as well; they were heavily criticsed for bundling HL2 and EP1 in the Orange Box, but after release it was called the "best value of 2007".

The problem with this generousity is that valve have become 'bad parents', feeding a sense of entitlement that has turned a rather vocal group into spoiled brats. I'm not blaming Valve here, it's simply a case of 'damned if you do, damned if you don't'.

Personally, I'm very thankfull for that do.

All those whinning brats need to shut up and realise Valve does not own them anything.

As one Matt Peckham put it:

Valve is not your b****. This is a useful thing to know, perhaps a useful thing to point out when you find yourself thinking that possibly Valve is, indeed, your b****, and should be out there creating what you want to play, exactly as you want to play it, right now.

 

[Apsalus]

QFT, first these fans complain about Valve because they delay deadlines for their games; now they complain because a new game is coming out so fast - make up your minds, people. I think we're dealing with a massive group of trolls.

You're lumping people together. "They" don't share your views, so obviously "they're" all the same people that you don't care for. Don't do that.

The (scoff) 'boycott' group - a true assortment of ignorant and uninformed tools, with some very serious entitlement issues. Reasonable argument and valid complaints and concerns have been dismissed; we are now dealing with a group of people that have deviated so far from the original point of contention that they wholeheartedly believe in the wanton trash they are putting in place of reason and sense.

It is a meditation in stupidity.

So what are your official feelings on the fact that Valve promised more content for L4D, then instead turned around and started working on the retail sequel not two months after L4D shipped? Survival mode qualifies as "new content," but that hardly seems like a fair measure of post-release content updates given Valve's track record with titles like TF2. It's true that the actual price for L4D2 has not been outright published, but Gabe has pretty much confirmed that it will be full retail ($50-60). I love L4D and we still don't know if Valve will actually turn out some nice add-ons for it between now and the release of L4D2, but that not knowing bit is the cause for most of the animosity towards Valve. I don't expect [the L4D2 content] to be free (I agree that too many whiners do), but the prospect of possibly being asked to pay another $50 for a polished-up version of a game that I bought a year prior doesn't excite me when extra goodies were supposed to be added to the first release.

 

[Eejit]

Official feelings, eh?

 

[Absinthe]

But Valve promised these things. They started work on the sequel right after the first game and could have dispelled the expectations, but that never really happened.

They've recovered themselves a bit with the assurance that work with the L4D SDK will extend to L4D2, but in terms of content updates, I can see why this is disappointing to many. What kind of possible updates could it be seeing when a superior game is already out the door? What could be added that isn't already implemented in the sequel? Would Valve actually update the original to compete against L4D2's quality? Who will even still be playing? A sequel this soon reneges on that one way or the other. I think the boycott is ultimately silly because 1) I doubt they'll abstain from purchasing when the release day comes, and 2) online petitions and whatnot are generally rife with idiotic supporters, just as we see here. But the charter itself is not wholly unreasonable.

I think a lot of the problem has ultimately less to do with the game itself than its marketing. You wouldn't have the outcry if the announcement was made a year from now, and less as well if it at least didn't have the number 2 attached to the end of it. I like Valve and I love their games, but they've had their share of facepalm moments. They dropped the ball somewhat on handling it.

Of course, everybody else seems to love this news. So whatever.

 

[MJ12]

I think asking for it to be free is self-entitled, yes.

However, it's like you have this cheese burger with alright tasting beef, so in order to make the cheese burger taste better, they are taking the same cheese burger and covering it with lots of mayo, pickles, and mustard.

I don't think mayo, pickles, and mustard is what the cheeseburger needed. So I am not inclined to eat it.

 

[Sledgehammer]

So what are your official feelings on the fact that Valve promised more content for L4D, then instead turned around and started working on the retail sequel not two months after L4D shipped?

I'm not enraged at all. I think I got my money's worth out of L4D, and hopefully Left 4 Dead 2 will be distinct enough to be as, or even more, fun. Survival Pack did it for me, and I also get some fun out of the SDK beta, even if I'm horrid at it.

 

[Absinthe]

However, it's like you have this cheese burger with alright tasting beef, so in order to make the cheese burger taste better, they are taking the same cheese burger and covering it with lots of mayo, pickles, and mustard.

I don't think mayo, pickles, and mustard is what the cheeseburger needed. So I am not inclined to eat it.

Screw you if you don't like a burger with pickles and mustard, buddy. :| This is America.

That mayo shit is gross though, so right on bro.

 

[Eejit]

I think asking for it to be free is self-entitled, yes.

However, it's like you have this cheese burger with alright tasting beef, so in order to make the cheese burger taste better, they are taking the same cheese burger and covering it with lots of mayo, pickles, and mustard.

I don't think mayo, pickles, and mustard is what the cheeseburger needed. So I am not inclined to eat it.

The analogy leaves something to be desired.

 

[Fiberawptic]

Although Left 4 dead 2 may be a little too similar to the original to stand as its own sequal (despite applaudable new features like melee weapons, new creatures, survivors), its more or less the AMOUNT of new content it has, rather than the ACTUAL content itself, that makes it worth the 50 bucks and frankly, thats a lot of resources and money valve is using to make content that some lunatics think should be free. Valve should get something back, thus they bundle it together and charge ya for a new game, its only fair. it wouldnt be fair for valve if they are producing so much extra content and getting nothing in return except our charming comments over teh internets...

Btw, that analogy had fail all over it...

 

[MJ12]

The analogy leaves something to be desired.

Steam Broiled?

 

[Lobster]

Valve didnt promise anything.

 

[Chris D]

The (scoff) 'boycott' group - a true assortment of ignorant and uninformed tools, with some very serious entitlement issues. Reasonable argument and valid complaints and concerns have been dismissed; we are now dealing with a group of people that have deviated so far from the original point of contention that they wholeheartedly believe in the wanton trash they are putting in place of reason and sense.

It is a meditation in stupidity.

And I bet many of them are serial piraters of games too. Tight-fisted ****-tards.

 

[Cyber$nake]

And I bet many of them are serial piraters of games too. Tight-fisted ****-tards.

Indeed, they have all made enemies with Captain Crunch.
Arrrgh

 

[Chris D]

The analogy leaves something to be desired.

Although I don't agree, a better analogy would have been to compare it to a turd. It doesn't matter how many times you polish it - it's still a turd.

 

[WhiteZero]

yeah, Orange Box didn't come out less than a year after it's predecessor... bad analogy, VALVe. Oh, and it was a plethora of new stuff... not just upgrades to a current game.

 

[Wills]

So what are your official feelings on the fact that Valve promised more content for L4D, then instead turned around and started working on the retail sequel not two months after L4D shipped?

Who say's they wont continue to update L4D with new content? Have Valve ever said "We've stopped working on L4D to concentrate solely on L4D2"... Who's to say that L4D and L4D2 wont be updated in tandem with each other forming two seperate takes/viewpoints on the same story-universe? Noone knows enough yet to form a good or bad opinion, and certainly nowhere near enough to start forming rage-groups demanding that Valve acquiesce to their "demands". It's laughable.

My feeling is that Valve will integrate melee weaponry, engine upgrades, new campaigns, new special infected and new weapons into BOTH games, furthering the storyline of Zoe, Bill, Francis and Louis, whilst simulataniously telling the new story of Coach, Rochelle, Ellis and Nick.

Also, Valve stated in the past that they wanted rid of rage-quitters... Maybe this announcement was the bug fix

 

[Apsalus]

Valve didnt promise anything.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQWylFmqnwM

Who say's they wont continue to update L4D with new content? Have Valve ever said "We've stopped working on L4D to concentrate solely on L4D2"... Who's to say that L4D and L4D2 wont be updated in tandem with each other forming two seperate takes/viewpoints on the same story-universe?

I addressed that. Read my initial post again.

My feeling is that Valve will integrate melee weaponry, engine upgrades, new campaigns, new special infected and new weapons into BOTH games, furthering the storyline of Zoe, Bill, Francis and Louis, whilst simulataniously telling the new story of Coach, Rochelle, Ellis and Nick.

We can hope.

 

[PimpinPenguin]

I was really disappointed with the severe lack of updates for L4D. The general consensus amongst gamers and reviewers was that we would get a couple more campaigns at the very least. I know Valve didn't promise a company never does, but they did say they would support it and given Valves great track record of supporting MP games i and many others believed them. I was waiting eagerly for the first new campaign wondering what was taking them so long for the new content and now i know they were working on new content only that they were hoarding it away for a sequel. Survival mode for L4D is pathetic, it's the standard lets see how long you can survive for has been a cheap add on for games for years and has never been popular. I still don't see Valve supporting L4D after L4D 2 release when they've neglected it so far even though they said they would support it. Valve your full of Bullshit and your excuses are pathetic. I'll consider buying it but not a chance at full price.

 

[jeepis]

as member of the boycott myself it has less to do with gaining what we are entitled to and more to do with ensuring that the l4d community gets fair treatment.

So you're actually saying that you ARE entitled to something.
I could say that I'll give you a ****ing gold-plated banana right now, but you are not entitled to that banana until we sign a contract that states that you are entitled to that banana...

 

[Lobster]

Its still just a flimsy comment in an interview, people who buy games expecting TF2 style DLC support when 99% of other games dont do that, are nieve. Free updates are a bonus and not included in the money you pay for the box, if you base your purchase on magical content that may or may not come, then you set yourself up for disappointment.

 

[Born]

I'm buying L4D 2. After checking my stats, I've spent a total of 200+ hours on L4D, which, by my standards, are sickening ('ly good).

Still though, tools/morons or not, 22,000+ people 'pledging' to not buy the game is quite seriously damaging for Valve? OK, probably alot of idiots will simply end up buying the game anyway - let's try and be realistic by knocking say 2,000 off that figure leaving us with 20,000; which is definetly still a massive significance. Also, I swear a few days ago the boycott group was approx 15,000? All of this media attention is helping them to gather more numbers. Which is not good.

 

[jeepis]

Valve is already treating those mother****ing backstabbers too well. If I were them, I'd just delete the ****ing group as soon as it reached 5000 ******s.

I don't see why none of this shit has happened to Rock Band and Guitar Hero. The improvements in those games are almost non-existent, just some new songs and outfits, right? I'm not saying they should be boycotted, no one should be, but if I had to choose between boycotting Valve or some Activision, I'd boycott Activision.

 

[MJ12]

Although I don't agree, a better analogy would have been to compare it to a turd. It doesn't matter how many times you polish it - it's still a turd.

I didn't feel comparing L4D to a turd was accurate or fair

 

[MuToiD_MaN]

All reasonable criticism aside (whether it's valid or not) the "fans" that have this sickening sense of entitlement over them can go suck a whole bunch of dicks.

That's like a tf2 spy GENTLEMEN. but in reverse

You have hours and hours of multiplayer gameplay with L4D, with plenty of maps (to include subsections). I say L4D was a full game. Now say "thank you, Valve."

 

[PimpinPenguin]

Valve is already treating those mother****ing backstabbers too well. If I were them, I'd just delete the ****ing group as soon as it reached 5000 ******s.

I don't see why none of this shit has happened to Rock Band and Guitar Hero. The improvements in those games are almost non-existent, just some new songs and outfits, right? I'm not saying they should be boycotted, no one should be, but if I had to choose between boycotting Valve or some Activision, I'd boycott Activision.

Yes, because deleting a valid group that are complaining would do wonders for Valve's PR. If Valve deletes it it would give them more publicity and show that it was working. It's no good covering your eyes and pretending everything is fine, Valve knew this would be unpopular and know they can see what the main criticisms are and work to fix them instead of trying to silence the community. I am getting fed up with the fanboys on the forums as soon as someone criticises Valve they are apparently backstabbers, Valve are not perfect.

 

[chimpmunk]

Valve knew this would be unpopular and know they can see what the main criticisms are and work to fix them instead of trying to silence the community.

I thought it was accepted as a fact that the "online gaming community" (IE: gaming board, gaming sites, etc...) represent a tiny minority of all gamers, hence why companies rarely give in to their outcries.
I'm pretty sure the majority of gamers (which DO NOT post on message boards/digg/etc...) are either pleased with the announcement of L4D2 or are indifferent.

So I guess VALVE will just let it die, and in 6 months, everyone will have forgotten they ever said "THEY'D NEVAH BUY A VALVE GAME AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!".