Were the combine on Xen?

[TheAmazingRando]

If Nihilanth was constructed by the Combine, and remember Nihilanth had complete control over local teleportation, then why would the Combine have to gain the knowledge of local teleportation from Dr. Mossman?

 

[Angry Lawyer]

Exactly.
[sarcasm]
And bare in mind, Samon can look at who voted what, and can give me a list of your usernames so I can ban you from downloading Conquest: City 17
[/sarcasm]

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Asknoone]

Exactly.
[sarcasm]
And bare in mind, Samon can look at who voted what, and can give me a list of your usernames so I can ban you from downloading Conquest: City 17
[/sarcasm]

-Angry Lawyer

Bah, yes has soared ahead.

 

[ríomhaire]

OK jokes about Samon banning people are already old:dozey:

 

[TheAmazingRando]

^Banned^

 

[Asknoone]

OK jokes about Samon banning people are already old:dozey:

/Banned.

I won't be banning anyone. People have some crazy ideas

 

[Adabiviak]

Do the combine need Dr. Mossman for their teleportation? It appeared that they had their own teleporter, but (what was it she said in "Dark Energy"?) it wasn't that good, something about leaving out the "dark energy equations"?

 

[TheAmazingRando]

The Combine had a different method of teleportation than we learned from Xen. They could only travel through dimensions and not teleport individual troops in like those on Xen could. For the Combine to use local teleportaion they would need Dr. Mossman.

 

[Adabiviak]

ah, thanks! ...from whence came the Nihilanth? This may have been covered on another forum, but this is the first time I've heard a convincing argument that it (?) wasn't augmented by the combine. Did the Xen masters construct it (per combine instructions?) as, say, an antennae or amplifier for whatever force enslaves the Vortigaunt? (Or for its teleportation abilities?)

 

[TheAmazingRando]

I really don't have enough information to adequetly answer your question. I believe that it was either the Xen masters who constructed Nihilanth for planetary managment, keeping the vortiguants under control and teleporting troops, or a third party we have yet to encounter. The main reason I had to rule out the Combine was their lack of local teleportation until they took control of Earth and gained Dr. Mossman.

 

[Adabiviak]

Word. I voted yes, but I'd change my vote if I could. This puts (for me) a new spin on the HL story.

 

[TheAmazingRando]

I'm glad I could offer some helpful information. I look forward to see what mysterys Aftermath shall bring.

 

[cquinn]

The combine have been on Earth for a long time, and there are plenty of headcrabs around.

But we are speculating based on a time before the combine were on Earth.
When neither Headcrabs or Vortigaunts were plentiful.

 

[Asknoone]

But we are speculating based on a time before the combine were on Earth.
When neither Headcrabs or Vortigaunts were plentiful.

Thats true, but how do you know the combine used parasite rockets during the occupation of earth?

 

[15357]

Thats true, but how do you know the combine used parasite rockets during the occupation of earth?

It seems to me that the rockets are mostly human tech.

Also, the rockets just seem to be artillery shells with fins for greater stability.

 

[Asknoone]

It seems to me that the rockets are mostly human tech.

Also, the rockets just seem to be artillery shells with fins for greater stability.

Exactly, therefore the Combine developed them later on, post invasion using the human technology. Its what they do, and if thats the case the Combine didn't have parasite rockets beforehand.

 

[ríomhaire]

....I leave for two weeks

you come back...

Samon
Senior Member

 

[Asknoone]

You silly people

 

[iMMuNiTy]

Aw, come on, big deal! Samon deserved a promotion long time ago.

 

[cquinn]

Thats true, but how do you know the combine used parasite rockets during the occupation of earth?

I never said they did. But to clarify, are we talking about the period
after the 7 hours war, or during it?

If we are talking about the time during the 7 hours war,
they would have had to use portal technology to enable large amounts
of Xen creatures to come to Earth, otherwise they would not have such
an abundant supply of them to start with.

With the dead of the Nilianth, they would not have had such ready
access to Xen. And the G-Man claimed that his employers had
regained control of Xen at the end of HL1.

 

[iMMuNiTy]

G-Man never said that his employers regained control over Xen.

The Border World, Xen, is in our control - for the time being - thanks to you.

 

[Zopwx2]

it looks very much like Valve is just making things up as they go along.

Quoted for truth.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

ah, thanks! ...from whence came the Nihilanth? This may have been covered on another forum, but this is the first time I've heard a convincing argument that it (?) wasn't augmented by the combine. Did the Xen masters construct it (per combine instructions?) as, say, an antennae or amplifier for whatever force enslaves the Vortigaunt? (Or for its teleportation abilities?)

Or maybe they made it themselves? The WAY the Nihilanth looks made is really different from how the Combine operate. There are no stitches on the Stalkers - it's all done through laser cutting. The Nihilanth is very roughtly stitched together.

And before you bring up the Advisor - the advisor is wearing a body-sock. It's not stiches on its skin.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Esquire]

I disagree with those that say the combine made the headcrab shells post-earth taker over.

I think it's more likely that the Combine would have weaked the enemy's defences by shelling them before they began their actual takeover, before the 7hr war, and probably during it too. I really think that headcrabs (and Gonarch) are Combine weapons used to weaken the defence forces of the planets they are about to take over and to help force resistance fighters into submission.

If i had a choice between the two, I'd rather face 10zombies than 10human resistance fighters.

I no longer think that headcrabs/gonarch are a part of the original combine species, but i still do think that the combine, from their acquisition of them, have always used headcrabs as a resistance dampening weapon.

 

[15357]

I say maybe during the 7hr war and after.

Headcrab shells have the compartments for the hcs, and fins for stability. They seem human and not synth. Also, they seem to be fired from giant artillery cannons due to their arch when in 'flight'. And in the game you didn't see any fired from combine structures.

 

[ríomhaire]

Why does everyone asume that Nihilanth was created?

 

[Esquire]

i dont assume that nihilanth was created. i didnt get the feeling many others did either

 

[ríomhaire]

It seems to me that most theories are that the Combine created him or the Controllers did.

 

[Esquire]

what are these controllers people speak of? are they those floating xen aliens that look like the nihilanth?

 

[Laivasse]

It seems to me that most theories are that the Combine created him or the Controllers did.

For what it's worth, I don't think he was created by the controllers (and definitely not by the Combine).

Seems to me like he lives a kind of Queen Termite existence - he's important, and he's powerful, but he's also physically handicapped in certain basic ways. With termites the main function of the queen is to provide eggs for the hive, and so their body is so bloated with their egg sac that they pretty much are incapable of moving - the function of the Nihilanth is some kind of mind control of the vorts, portal control, and communication, and it could be that these DIY additions to his body are enhancements so that he can perform those tasks better, at the expense of his physical integrity. Either that or the 'hive leader' nature of his body meant that he was originally unfit for much else apart from mind magic bizness, but all this stuff was done to give him life support and make him more mobile/powerful, whatever.

what are these controllers people speak of? are they those floating xen aliens that look like the nihilanth?

Yes.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

I no longer think that headcrabs/gonarch are a part of the original combine species, but i still do think that the combine, from their acquisition of them, have always used headcrabs as a resistance dampening weapon.

Closest solution. The Combine are notorius for developing new ways around a problem. What better solution to a problem than taking an artillery piece, packing it with cheap animals that prey on people, and firing at them? The Combine didn't bring the headcrabs to Earth, but soon figured out how useful they were.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[LoB]

Ah, the Combine-on-Xen discussion returns to the board. Well, I voted no and I base that vote on pretty much every argument presented by AL, Laivasse, Pai-Mei and more recently Samon. Of course my personal opinion differs from some of theirs and I suppose I could take the time to write down all my thoughts on the subject, but I'll spare you all the pain of reading through them.

We've all seen how that ends up when discussing this particular topic.

Anyway, I know I post very little but I cast my vote anyway, for what little it's worth. Seeing "Yes" in the lead makes my poor heart weep in sheer disappointment.

No the Combine don't use Xen to teleport, we don't know if they can or not.

By the way, I couldn't help but answer this quote from ríomhaire. It's been said many times and shown in HL 2 that the Combine are extremely efficient in everything they do and it's stated by Mossman that the Xen-slingshot teleportation method is far more effective than the slower, Combine tunneling method. Now ask yourself this, if they can use Xen to teleport and it's faster and more efficient than the method they're using, why would they keep using the tunneling method?

Which brings me to my point. I think as HL 2 starts, the Combine cannot use Xen and have no presence on it, but later on Mossman gives them the technology and by the end of the game it's fairly reasonable to assume that the Combine have probably sent some form of invasion force to Xen.

Just my 2 cents and a half.

 

[Laivasse]

By the way, I couldn't help but answer this quote from ríomhaire. It's been said many times and shown in HL 2 that the Combine are extremely efficient in everything they do and it's stated by Mossman that the Xen-slingshot teleportation method is far more effective than the slower, Combine tunneling method. Now ask yourself this, if they can use Xen to teleport and it's faster and more efficient than the method they're using, why would they keep using the tunneling method?

Yeah, and Mossman also says that they can tunnel in from their universe, but once they're here, they're "dependent" on local transportation to get from place to place. I'm pretty sure dependent is her exact word. Which is almost exactly the same as saying they can't use Xen to teleport locally. They don't choose to use local transport - they rely on it, according to Mossman.

 

[LoB]

Oh.. I didn't remember that exact part of her speech. Well, the Combine-on-Xen position pretty much goes against that quote, doesn't it? I'd trust Marc Laidlaw to at least keep the dialogue from clashing with the storyline.

 

[ríomhaire]

Oh.. I didn't remember that exact part of her speech. Well, the Combine-on-Xen position pretty much goes against that quote, doesn't it? I'd trust Marc Laidlaw to at least keep the dialogue from clashing with the storyline.

What are you talking about?

 

[LoB]

I was referring to the Mossman speech that Laivasse was talking about. The one where Mossman says that the Combine are forced to rely on local transportation to get around once they get to Earth, implying that they couldn't use Xen to teleport.

Now, the Combine-on-Xen theory defends that the Combine knew about and had access to Xen, which clashes with Mossman's speech when she says the whole bit about dependancy on local transportation.

That's what I was talking about, sorry if I wasn't clear enough.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

Oh.. I didn't remember that exact part of her speech. Well, the Combine-on-Xen position pretty much goes against that quote, doesn't it? I'd trust Marc Laidlaw to at least keep the dialogue from clashing with the storyline.

To quote Mossman:

"We're closing in on a reliable local teleport technology, something the Combine still hasn't mastered. Eli thinks their portals are string-based, similar to our Calabi-Yah model. But they failed to factor in the dark energy equations. They can tunnel through from their universe, but once they're here, they're dependant on the local transportation. If they knew what we were doing with Entanglement..."

"Doctor Kleiner compressed the Xen relay far beyond anything he imagined at Black Mesa. We've figured out how to use Xen as an unexpressed axis, effectively a dimensional slingshot, so we can swing around the Borderworld and come back in local space without having to pass through."

Combine not on Xen seems most favourable.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[cquinn]

From those quotes, one can infer that the Combine did not have a reliable form of
local teleportation (between City17 and Nova Prospeckt for example); but that they
did have mastery or access to non-local portal technology (ie, open a portal from
Point A on Earth to "transfer point B" on Xen, and then open a portal
from "transfer point B" back to a different location on Earth (Point C).
(Change Point A to a world in the Combine universe and you can see where the
concept of "tunneling through", or creating a series of connected portals, is applied).

What Vance, Kleiner and Mossman were working on appears to be a new method,
which creates one portal that acts as a wormhole thru Xen-Space to connect
Point A and Point C without having to physically touch Point B.
Mossman's second comment implies that the Combine are not aware of such
a method of using Portal technology, or they would have already adapted it
as a more efficient way to get people and materials between cities without
needing to secure points along the frontier from Antlions and other wildlife.

If the Combine had as such mastery of portal tech to not need Xen, then they
would similarly have had no need for the second (third?) full scale prototype of the
Kleiner-Vance transport platform (or should that be Kleiner-Mossman-Vance-Vance?);
which was also destroyed along with Nova Prospekt.

(Side note: doesn't that mean that the Combine treated your presence in
Nova Prospeckt in the same manner that the military treated the alien
presence at Black Mesa?).

This is just MHO, but it seems like Xen was/is a place where teleportation was
an easy to come by effect of the physics of that universe. If true, that would
also be of interest to outside parties looking at new ways to apply their own
portal technology.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

Exactly.

Seems that the "Yes" side of the argument has run out of ways of fighting the inevitable truth, hmm?

-Angry Lawyer

 

[ríomhaire]

I just can't be bothered to argue any more. We've covered everything and the only thing left is you saying that theywould have taken Xen teleports and me saying they never realised it or just didn't care.