What does the Catholic Church and Paris Hilton have in common?

Krynn72 said:
It doesn't matter how well you write. If you think the earth is only a few thousand years old and that scientific methods of dating could be off by such a huge margin then nothing you write will make you look like a rational person.
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who r you to say ?
 
Higlac said:
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Bashing someone because of their views on a(n almost) completely unrelated subject. What does someone's personal views on another subject have to do with the presentation of evidence?

As for the evidence that I'm talking about. Obviously, while debating with someone that has a different background than you have, then you must pull evidence from that small shared background. Between two Christians, you are expected to argue with the Bible, two Catholics and the CCC opens up. But between an atheist and a Catholic, there exists little else but philosophy. I haven't taken enough theory to be able to prove the existence of God to an atheist without making assumptions based on the complexity of life and the odds of the creation of life out of random chance.
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I wasn't bashing you. Many religious people think the universe is a couple thousand of years old. Im simply asking what boat you are in. The problem you and most other religious people have is that you are overly sensative, you think I'm bashing you when I'm asking you a simple question.

You said you had evidance, share it.
 
No Limit said:
You are absolutely right, because catholics are ****ing stupid (like all other religious people).
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No Limit said:
No, not sarcastic. And yes, they are stupid. Their pope, the guy that is supposed to have a direct line to God, covered up child molestation. And yet as you said they still follow him.
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No Limit said:
Im sorry if it sounds mean. But honestly, what you just said is ****ing retarded.

But dont worry, there is time for redemption. Admit your religion is stupid and that the bible is bullshit and then there is still hope for you.
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No Limit said:
No, don't. They are just as retarded.
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No Limit said:
In my opinion trying to answer those questions might make you realize how retarded you sound, especially after you just said how logical it all is.
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No Limit said:
I wasn't bashing you. Many religious people think the universe is a couple thousand of years old. Im simply asking what boat you are in. The problem you and most other religious people have is that you are overly sensative, you think I'm bashing you when I'm asking you a simple question.

You said you had evidance, share it.
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Sure does sound you're bashing religion and not just asking simple questions.
 
The Monkey said:
What baffles me about the majority of this forum's members is that they still haven't realized that religious people (especially extremists) are thinking outside of the scientific paradigm.
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I'd wager that many of us do realize this, I know I realized it a long time ago. The thing is, it aggravates us to no end that people refuse or are absolutely unable to think rationally about so many things.

The Monkey said:
Not everything of value in the world is the realm of the natural sciences, my friend.
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I would argue that, technically, everything (of value or no) is indeed in the realm of natural sciences.
 
I go to a Catholic school. No, I'm not Catholic. Not Christian at all. I don't believe in organized worship/religion.

I just believe there is some God out there, and the afterlife is whatever you want it to be.

To all Christians.....you don't need to be in a religion to worship your god.
 
Why do you believe there is an afterlife and what makes you think that it is whatever you want it to be?

I'm legitimately interested, not trying to sound like a cock.
 
Krynn72 said:
Why do you believe there is an afterlife and what makes you think that it is whatever you want it to be?

I'm legitimately interested, not trying to sound like a cock.
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I don't know there is, and even if there is one, I just hope it's whatever you want it to be.

inb4 fagnostic
 
Escaep said:
Sure does sound you're bashing religion and not just asking simple questions.
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I was bashing religion, yes, so what? I'm not bashing him. I was asking him a simple question.
 
Wait, so do you believe there is an afterlife, or do you just hope there is?
 
dabomb29 said:
I don't know there is, and even if there is one, I just hope it's whatever you want it to be.

inb4 fagnostic
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Hoping and believing are totally different things. Which is it?
 
****IN' MAGNETS, HOW DO THEY WORK?!?!

Oh right. Ask Feynman.

But he's just another lyin' scientist. :LOL:

EDIT: I never knew that ICP was a fat redneck plus a wigger, this just makes them so much more hilarious!
 
I believe in some supernatural force operating in our universe, but whether to call it God is a different story.

I guess sometimes things are too perfectly placed for it to be all coincidences (I like to call it fate or karma, but I'm deterministic). Though I don't believe in praying, I don't believe we should devote a large portion of our life worshipping an unproven being.

I see life as a challenge, and those who win are those who lived their lives to the fullest. That does not mean sacrificing hard earned money and a large portion of your time praying and begging a being to grant you favors and the possibility of a better next life.

Live life as it is now. Work on making a better tomorrow, not a better afterlife.
 
Could someone religious explain to me what makes them religious? Are you scared? What exactly convinces you?
 
flamingdts said:
I believe in some supernatural force operating in our universe, but whether to call it God is a different story.

I guess sometimes things are too perfectly placed for it to be all coincidences (I like to call it fate or karma, but I'm deterministic). Though I don't believe in praying, I don't believe we should devote a large portion of our life worshipping an unproven being.

I see life as a challenge, and those who win are those who lived their lives to the fullest. That does not mean sacrificing hard earned money and a large portion of your time praying and begging a being to grant you favors and the possibility of a better next life.

Live life as it is now. Work on making a better tomorrow, not a better afterlife.
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Why does the operating force / prime mover have to be supernatural? Why can't it just be natural? It wouldn't introduce any contradictions into your beliefs as you list them here...
 
No Limit said:
No, not sarcastic. And yes, they are stupid. Their pope, the guy that is supposed to have a direct line to God, covered up child molestation. And yet as you said they still follow him.
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You think something as small as child molestation will make people snap out of this worldwide delusion? Nigga plz.
 
VirusType2 said:
Could someone religious explain to me what makes them religious? Are you scared? What exactly convinces you?
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Well, when I was growing up, I went to a private Lutheran school where we had a bible class where we memorized verses and had church every.. tuesday I think it was. My grandmother took me to church every saturday night, and sometimes she still drags me along, but not nearly as often due to my schoolwork.

Up until about.. oh, late 2008? I never questioned what I was taught because I had no reason to. Hell seemed like a bad place so how can God be so bad?

Of course, until reading a lot of the debates here and being on the religious side once or twice. One night, I still remember it vividly, I just sat down and thought about life, the universe, and everything, and came to the conclusion that religion was unnecessary and there is no proof to back it up.

Since I started public school, my reasoning and intellectual abilities were allowed to flourish. I was taught evolution; it didn't seem so stupid. It had clear evidence, rational ideas, and it was complex and had real essence to it. I thought back; the evidence for creation was a few bible verses. How was that proof? I could do the same thing.

On the first day, Ace created everything.
On the second day, Ace created Katy Perry.
On the third day, Ace forced everyone to listen to Katy Perry and like it.

Before going straight atheist, however, I went into the mindset of 'perhaps the entire bible is a huge allegory'. It makes sense, and I still half-believe that today; The deadly fruit was Man's ascendancy to the thinking mind, the rational labor; and so God punished him for fleeing his nature and showed him what life was really like. Before, it was wonderful, because we did not know better.

But when we became rational, we learned our place was terrible; deserts, rivers our only source of life. We knew how to survive because we had always been this way. But now we wanted something better, something meaningful.

But, hey that's just my take on it.
 
Ennui said:
Why does the operating force / prime mover have to be supernatural? Why can't it just be natural? It wouldn't introduce any contradictions into your beliefs as you list them here...
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Supernatural is a shallow word.

I mean if Ghosts are scientifically proven they are no longer supernatural are they?

I guess I believe in a force which makes "A bad day even worse" or "A good day even better" type of thing. I guess I could call it karma, or fate, or extremely rare luck. Though whether that is in the realm of "natural" is up for debate. I do sometimes consider rare luck to be natural, but when you are the lucky one, you can't help but think "why me?". In these cases, "It's my day", "it's about time", "I deserve it" etc. tends to be the most suitable answer, and for me that links right back to fate and karma.

It's hard to put it in words, but when fortune favors you, you can't help but think some force is going around making life better for you for whatever reason.
 
flamingdts said:
I guess I believe in a force which makes "A bad day even worse" or "A good day even better" type of thing
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I feel you on this. I'm not religious, not by a long shot, but i've had far too many "bad days" where the world seems to crumble not only for me, but for everybody around me also, to not consider the prospect of some sort of all encompassing "force". And it's not just for the people around me, it seems like even people back home, thousands of miles away, have these coinciding "shit days".

Hell, it's not even just these "shit days" i'm talking about, it seems like the actual emotions of the populace coincide. Like, on days where i'm feeling especially twitchy or anxious, my teachers, friends, and general acquaintances seem to be abnormally restless and scatterbrained. Of course, things don't always work in unison like this, but i've seen it happen a lot.

I have no idea what it is, but I really do believe that there is some sort of universal consciousness that we've yet to really uncover. maybe consciousness isn't the right word, but we all seem to be interconnected in some way or another, at least on an emotional level. Like there's a sixth sense that links all human beings in some minute way.
 
A young priest was taking confession for the first time. Things were going well, and he moted out fair penance. Toward the end of the day, a man stepped in to the confessional. "Forgive me, Father for I have sinned," he began. "I lied to my boss about my plans for the weekend to avoid being called into work, I took the Lord's name in vain several times in traffic, and I committed sodomy with wife." The priest scratches his head. "Well, recite nine Hali Marys for lying, twelve Our Fathers for taking the Lord's name in vain, and... um..."

The priest pokes his head out of the confessional and calls over an altar boy. "What does the monseigneur usually give for sodomy?"

"Three Snickers and a Coke."
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kinda funny
 
Comedy gold should always be shared.

a178a644.png


So, was it?
 
Call me crazy but there are some things that humans do that make no sense in an evolutionary perspective. These are all speculative. They prove absolutely nothing. But they're at least interesting to think about:

Butter:
Why would anyone in their right mind decide to invent butter. First, it's not even obvious that the process of making butter would even work. You take milk/cream, which is easily spoiled. You decide, I'm gonna take my perfectly good milk, and put it in a vat, and I'm gonna churn it. Hours go by, and nothing is happening, but I'm gonna sit here and keep on churning it. After a long time, it starts to curdle. I know that when milk goes bad, it makes me feel kinda sick, but inexplicably I want to eat this curdled stuff. And I'm going to get my buddies to eat it.
What the heck!

Tapioca:
This is a real mind boggler. Tapioca is made from the root of the cassava plant. It's used as a major starch source in South America.
But tapioca in its natural form contains toxic levels of cyanide. Before you can eat it, you have to soak it in water for a few days to leach out the cyanide, collect the wet starchy material, and dry it out a few days.
People with no scientific knowledge of cyanide have been doing this for millenia, despite the fact that (1) people who had first tried eating the root without soaking it would have gotten ill, which would seem to discourage tapioca consumption on an evolutionary basis; (2) it is not at all obvious that soaking it a few days would remove the toxic compound -- so why would anyone do this?

I would be absolutely thrilled to get some kind of scientific/anthropological explanation for the development of these kinds of crazy food-making processes (seriously, food is totally weird; don't even get me started on bread or cheese or people deciding that cow milk would be a good way to prolong their joy of drinking mommy's milk :O), as it would save me a lot of time from being totally mind-boggled. But until then, I still find this kind of stuff somewhat mysterious.
 
flamingdts said:
I guess I believe in a force which makes "A bad day even worse" or "A good day even better" type of thing. I guess I could call it karma, or fate, or extremely rare luck. Though whether that is in the realm of "natural" is up for debate.
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flamingdts said:
It's hard to put it in words, but when fortune favors you, you can't help but think some force is going around making life better for you for whatever reason.
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do you receive messages from this force in pancake form too?
 
I say we all calm down, you are never going to help anyone by being angry and provocative at them.

Humans aren't fully logical beings and as a result people will accept things that seem ridiculous to most people, the best way is to challenge them without coming across aggressive or even patronising otherwise you reinforce their core belief since it sometimes comes with a side order of hating sceptics/scientists as they are the ones who "supress" these outside beliefs. Also it isn't a nice way to debate someone regardless of how "stupid" they might be.

Just saying.

dfc05 said:
Call me crazy but there are some things that humans do that make no sense in an evolutionary perspective. These are all speculative. They prove absolutely nothing. But they're at least interesting to think about:

Butter:
Why would anyone in their right mind decide to invent butter. First, it's not even obvious that the process of making butter would even work. You take milk/cream, which is easily spoiled. You decide, I'm gonna take my perfectly good milk, and put it in a vat, and I'm gonna churn it. Hours go by, and nothing is happening, but I'm gonna sit here and keep on churning it. After a long time, it starts to curdle. I know that when milk goes bad, it makes me feel kinda sick, but inexplicably I want to eat this curdled stuff. And I'm going to get my buddies to eat it.
What the heck!

Tapioca:
This is a real mind boggler. Tapioca is made from the root of the cassava plant. It's used as a major starch source in South America.
But tapioca in its natural form contains toxic levels of cyanide. Before you can eat it, you have to soak it in water for a few days to leach out the cyanide, collect the wet starchy material, and dry it out a few days.
People with no scientific knowledge of cyanide have been doing this for millenia, despite the fact that (1) people who had first tried eating the root without soaking it would have gotten ill, which would seem to discourage tapioca consumption on an evolutionary basis; (2) it is not at all obvious that soaking it a few days would remove the toxic compound -- so why would anyone do this?

I would be absolutely thrilled to get some kind of scientific/anthropological explanation for the development of these kinds of crazy food-making processes (seriously, food is totally weird; don't even get me started on bread or cheese or people deciding that cow milk would be a good way to prolong their joy of drinking mommy's milk :O), as it would save me a lot of time from being totally mind-boggled. But until then, I still find this kind of stuff somewhat mysterious.
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You're right, I have the same thoughts when it comes to food. It is amazing how food came to be. But I know that if I can't explain it, it doesn't mean that a god decided to give humans the knowledge to do it.
http://www.webexhibits.org/butter/history-intro.html

http://www.foodtimeline.org/foodpuddings.html
 
Tyguy said:
This would actually hold true except the church readily accepts the concept of physics and mathematics to some extent, only they prefer to abandon them when scripture tells a different story. If religion was at least consistent then I could feasibly understand the willful ignorance, but apparently the rules can change at any point.

For example, the church's stance on limbo

Does it make anyone else sick that a large number of high ranking catholics believe that a child who dies before baptism can't get into heaven?
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It's true that the church has adopted some arguments for their bullshit that is based in Empiricism, but I think that this is mainly to give the impression to be a modern church that's "keeping up with the trends", rather than using it as a genuine basis for their beliefs.

No Limit said:
I'll bet you money that it is, I just hope I live long enough for us to find out. Or that the human race doesn't destroy itself before figuring it all out.

But in the end we already know enough about the universe to make some conclusions. We know that the earth and the universe can't possibly be just a few thousand years old. Anyone that wants to learn why can, believing in the bible isn't an excuse.
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Krynn72 said:
I would argue that, technically, everything (of value or no) is indeed in the realm of natural sciences.
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Really?

How do the natural sciences explain the transition from structuralism to post-structuralism in the late 1960s France?

How do the natural sciences explain the difference between Jeremy Bentham and John Stuart Mill's views of utilitarianism?

How do the natural sciences explain the different views that John Locke and Thomas Hobbes held on the "state of nature"?

How do the natural sciences explain how the critique against Impressionism led to the formation of Expressionism?

How do the natural sciences explain the evolution of Russian realist literature doing the second half of the 19th century?

I could go on, but you get my point.
 
dfc05 said:
People with no scientific knowledge of cyanide have been doing this for millenia, despite the fact that (1) people who had first tried eating the root without soaking it would have gotten ill, which would seem to discourage tapioca consumption on an evolutionary basis; (2) it is not at all obvious that soaking it a few days would remove the toxic compound -- so why would anyone do this?
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Nabobalis said:
You're right, I have the same thoughts when it comes to food. It is amazing how food came to be. But I know that if I can't explain it, it doesn't mean that a god decided to give humans the knowledge to do it.
http://www.webexhibits.org/butter/history-intro.html

http://www.foodtimeline.org/foodpuddings.html
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Also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_of_fire_by_early_humans

Because of the indigestible components of plants such as raw cellulose and starch, certain parts of the plant such as stems, mature leaves, enlarged roots, and tubers would not have been part of the hominid diet prior to the advent of fire.[16] Instead, the diet consisted of the parts of the plants that were made of simpler sugars and carbohydrates such as seeds, flowers, and fleshy fruits. The incorporation of toxins into the seeds and similar carbohydrate sources also affected the diet, as cyanogenic glycosides such as those found in linseed, cassava, and manioc are made non-toxic through cooking.
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And keep in mind there was communication welllll before there was Latin.
 
dfc05 said:
I would be absolutely thrilled to get some kind of scientific/anthropological explanation for the development of these kinds of crazy food-making processes (seriously, food is totally weird; don't even get me started on bread or cheese or people deciding that cow milk would be a good way to prolong their joy of drinking mommy's milk :O), as it would save me a lot of time from being totally mind-boggled. But until then, I still find this kind of stuff somewhat mysterious.
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It's called curiosity.
 
ktimekiller said:
This is why religion has no place on this forums.
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if we removed every post which complained about the thread it might actually be going a little better. i can't comprehend the reasoning behind contributing to a thread you dislike other than +1 post count :|
 
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