What everyone is thinking

[BlumenKohl]

Every company owes us something the moment they decide to go into business. We're consumers, and we put the food they live off on their plates. We pay the rent for their offices, so yeah, they do owe us something. They owe it because otherwise they wouldn't exist, their survival depends on what they owe to us.

 

[Styloid]

Newell became a millionaire working at Microsoft and, completely with his own money, decided to make HL1 because he felt the games made at that time were lacking. That is the same story with HL2. We owe Valve for revolutionizing the FPS or we'd still be hunting for different coloured keys right now. Give game developers a break, let them do things the way they want to, give them time, etc. This isn't an assembly line (unless you, the consumer, make it that way), this is supposed to be art/entertainment. Honestly, all the complaining just sounds like impatience and immaturity.

 

[Gossoon]

Well, I'm on record as thinking the whole "valve doesn't owe us anything" line is dumb as my uncle Frank. So if valve doesn't owe us anything, then we don't owe valve anything... including our money. I'm just happy as hell I'm getting a free copy. Let ATI buy these guys new Porsches.

 

[Korgoth]

Valve owes me my child support! Gah, everyone is impatient, even me. Whether you admit to it or not your really REALLY want this game, otherwise you wouldn't be here. And since your here you would obviously love to have it now. Its like when its almost your birthday and you know someone got you something and they know what it is but won't tell you and you end up bald because your pulling your hair out in anticipation only to find out its a coupon for a christian music store so you go to work the next day and scream at everyone eventually losing your job because of this only to end up a sad pathetic drunk whos wife left him because he has no job then shoots himself in the foot because he is to scared to really kill himself only to end up in jail being butt raped by a guy named sam whos sole intention in life is to keep the only tooth he has left as shiny as possible because he just knows when he gets out his crop of pot plants will still be there.

 

[Quixote]

The idea that valve doesn't owe annything to the community is false. Many people bought ATI Cards based on the "hard" release date of sept. 30. Valve owes many people the game already, and at the very least they owe some kind of progress report on where people's incestment lie.

 

[Gossoon]

"incestment"?

lol

new word

 

[Raziaar]

Its kinda funny how you guys that claim to not have your lives centered around half-life 2... have many thousands of posts... <chuckles> You berate others for talking about half-life 2 on halflife 2 forums, and how their lives are consumed by the game... yet you have over 4000+ posts! lol.

 

[Rakim]

Its kinda funny how you guys that claim to not have your lives centered around half-life 2... have many thousands of posts... <chuckles> You berate others for talking about half-life 2 on halflife 2 forums, and how their lives are consumed by the game... yet you have over 4000+ posts! lol.

It is kind of funny isn't it. They have been consumed by Valve so much they can't see further than their own a$s hair.

 

[Sparta]

You two are talking about some of the moderators
It's been nice knowing you

 

[Mr-Fusion]

Its kinda funny how you guys that claim to not have your lives centered around half-life 2... have many thousands of posts... <chuckles> You berate others for talking about half-life 2 on halflife 2 forums, and how their lives are consumed by the game... yet you have over 4000+ posts! lol.

Heh. Hypocrisy aside... i'm sure a lot of those guys just accept that delays are part of computer game development and that getting angry about it is about as useful as wearing a ninja turtles facemask for birth control. One delay i can handle pretty well, most good games experience 1 delay. 1. Though if it's delayed till 2005 (rivaling the DNF abomination) ....well i don't know what would happen. Probably nothing...everyone would just move on lol.

As for my thoughts. I'm sick to death of hearing "Valve owe us nothing". It all started with that damn article...by that damn guy..who's damn name escapes me. Whether or not it's true i'm just sick of hearing it. Can we re-word it? From now on we'll say "Valve have no obligation to deliver HL2, or other new games, to us"

Or "Whilst Valve have no obligation to give us HL2, it's most certainly in their best interests, financially, if they do"

Imu spam :imu: :imu: :imu: :imu: :imu: :imu: :imu: :imu: :imu:

 

[sharp]

Can I say owned?

 

[ComradeBadger]

@ Raziaar + Rakim's most recent comments. I like how that was actually explicitly directed at me \o/

If you have a look, hardly ANY of my posts are in HL2 dicussion, most are in Off Topic, Hardware, General Editing, and General Gaming. Most of my posts ironically are 'Closed.' or 'Moved.'

Ah yes, I see that as a valid comment:

It is kind of funny isn't it. They have been consumed by Valve so much they can't see further than their own a$s hair.

Woo. Please don't insult people on these forums or you won't last long tbh. I know my first post or two was a little flamy, but ffs, I apologised. Flaming solves nothing tbh

 

[songwriter]

I think what he is saying is...Why say we will get things if we don't.
Its happened alot, built hopes up and dashed them.

 

[Chris D]

I think what he is saying is...Why say we will get things if we don't.
Its happened alot, built hopes up and dashed them.

Guys, guys... I agree, Valve did say we'd get the SDK, the benchmark, the rest of the BINK videos, a modifcation development expo and a DX8/9 comparison. That at least is true. But, correct me if I'm wrong, they didn't actually tell you when you'd get it. Or if they did then they said it'd be "released before HL2 is shipped". Guess what?!

HL2 hasn't actually shipped yet, so if they've told you they're going to do the above things - they will do them before HL2 ships.

Quite an easy concept.

And if Gabe ever said: "I promise and swear on my wife's life we'll release the benchmark on xxxx date" then please provide the evidence and I'll shut up.

Can't you all have a bit of patience about you? This "Valve promised this, that and Valve are rubbish and Valve owe me their lives" shit is getting really boring.

 

[G-Dub]

Guys, guys... I agree, Valve did say we'd get the SDK, the benchmark, the rest of the BINK videos, a modifcation development expo and a DX8/9 comparison. That at least is true. But, correct me if I'm wrong, they didn't actually tell you when you'd get it. Or if they did then they said it'd be "released before HL2 is shipped". Guess what?!

HL2 hasn't actually shipped yet, so if they've told you they're going to do the above things - they will do them before HL2 ships.

Quite an easy concept.

And if Gabe ever said: "I promise and swear on my wife's life we'll release the benchmark on xxxx date" then please provide the evidence and I'll shut up.

Can't you all have a bit of patience about you? This "Valve promised this, that and Valve are rubbish and Valve owe me their lives" shit is getting really boring.

Well said, peeps need to chill...

 

[Chris D]

Well said, peeps need to chill...

It's what I've always said and always will say.

 

[Dougy]

You guys seem to think they are god and as a company I can critque them however I want. Their PR is assinigne. You can cream your jeans over Gabe and their "community" driven company all you want but they are completly oblivious to us "community".

dude i total 100% agree with you.


They are fanboys, further more they are the most fanatical fanboys ive ever seen.


As far as i can tell Valve have released 1 good game wich was delayed a year, they have released crap expansions that last little more than 5 hours, they tried to sell MOD's, now they cant even protect their own computers, and they cant finish a game they have been working on for 5 years.

That is not the CV of a good company.

No doubt i will get flamed for stating facts.

 

[mortiz]

Opposing Force was a good expansion!!!11oneone

Really though, better to produce one good game than a multitude of crappy ones.

 

[Axyon]

dude i total 100% agree with you.


They are fanboys, further more they are the most fanatical fanboys ive ever seen.


As far as i can tell Valve have released 1 good game wich was delayed a year, they have released crap expansions that last little more than 5 hours, they tried to sell MOD's, now they cant even protect their own computers, and they cant finish a game they have been working on for 5 years.

That is not the CV of a good company.

No doubt i will get flamed for stating facts.

Awful, awful CV, yeah. Just critically acclaimed makers of what's regarded by many to be the best game of all time. I'm sure that wouldn't be the only thing on the CV for everyone who works for Valve, backround experience is probably a requirement.

 

[Chris D]

There's no point in arguing it really Abom. I sort of work in customer services at the moment and one thing's true: People like to complain about the smallest things and just seem to forget all of the benefits. They're the kind of people that make Victor Meldrew look subdued.

 

[Axyon]

There's no point in arguing it really Abom. I sort of work in customer services at the moment and one thing's true: People like to complain about the smallest things and just seem to forget all of the benefits. They're the kind of people that make Victor Meldrew look subdued.

Yeah, it's always the case. As a race, we pretty much suck :/

 

[Chris D]

Well... some people do.

 

[Champ]

Guys, guys... I agree, Valve did say we'd get the SDK, the benchmark, the rest of the BINK videos, a modifcation development expo and a DX8/9 comparison. That at least is true. But, correct me if I'm wrong, they didn't actually tell you when you'd get it. Or if they did then they said it'd be "released before HL2 is shipped". Guess what?!

HL2 hasn't actually shipped yet, so if they've told you they're going to do the above things - they will do them before HL2 ships.

Quite an easy concept.

And if Gabe ever said: "I promise and swear on my wife's life we'll release the benchmark on xxxx date" then please provide the evidence and I'll shut up.

Can't you all have a bit of patience about you? This "Valve promised this, that and Valve are rubbish and Valve owe me their lives" shit is getting really boring.

I remember Valve said the SDK would be released in a couple of weeks or something like that... I reckon those weeks have passed, aye?

Also, I don't get why some of you just won't acknowledge that fact that Valve DOES indeed have a shitty PR department. As I said before, I like the fact that they give us estimations, but when they don't make those dates, I want to see what the hell their status is then!

 

[Mitoboy]

*In a normal tone*

Can a number of you members of this site tell me two things?

"Why do you people argue over the (awarded) most anticipated game ever that was delayed around 6 days before its release?"

And

"Why do you people argue over how VALVe has/has not mistreated you?"

If it involves any sort of coupon that came with some hardware, it is discounted.
If it involves "Valve owes us nothing" or anything that means the same thing, it is discounted.
If it involves "Valve owes us something" or anything that means the same thing, it is discounted.
If it is about no/lack or released media (in any form what so ever), it is discounted.
If it contains any swear words or names of religious figures, it is discounted.
If it contains direct/indirect attacks at anyone or anything (besides yourself), it is discounted.
If it contains anything about "the right to be...” it is discounted.

My answer?

"I don't have an answer.”

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

6 days now eh.... Well, I musta missed that one!

 

[mrchimp]

Its kinda funny how you guys that claim to not have your lives centered around half-life 2... have many thousands of posts... <chuckles> You berate others for talking about half-life 2 on halflife 2 forums, and how their lives are consumed by the game... yet you have over 4000+ posts! lol.

Actually I'm normally doing something else while browsing HL2.net, I can flick between the two makeing it look like I spend more time on here than I really do.

back on topic: I never said anyone doesn't have the right to be angry they just don't have the right to make it known every other post they make. Also let me just say this... Yes valve probaly did lie, they probably did know it wasn't going to be released on the 30th a week or two before, however it doesn't matter. They didn't lie about a serious issue, it wouldn't have made any difference if they had said it wasn't going to be released on the 30th, earlier or not, we still wouldn't have the game and you people would still be moaning.

They havn't lied about anything else, like the SDK, because they probably didn't know that it or something else wouldn't be ready in time to release it. They can't give us new media because we have seen too much of the game already and if they gave us more now we would know way too much about it by the time we baught it. They will release new media at the appropiate time.

You havn't bought HL2 yet and your time spent looking at HL2 promo material is not legal tender. Valve are not resposible for what you do with your time, if you think they are then your about as moronic... well you define it. You can pissed off as much as you want but valve don't deserve to be slandered because of your stupidity and sense of self importance.

Thats the last time I post on this subject otherwise it's going to start looking like I really care. BTW not all of this was aimed at the guy I quoated.

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

I think its funny that you seriously believe that we have our lives centred arround HL2.....


I mean how is that actually possible..



Anyway, I have a life to get on with, bye

 

[Jimlad]

I don't get all these people asking "When did Valve promise anything? They never promised anything!" while conveniently forgetting that HL2 was supposed to be released on Sep 30th. They were even asked, again and again, whether they would *really* meet the deadline, and time and time again they confirmed it. Then, when it must have been pretty clear that they weren't going to hit it at all, they waited until the very last minute to tell anyone at all. While it may not have made any difference to the release date, it sure as hell would have made a difference to the fans. Many people, not including myself, had bought hardware specifically in anticipation of this game, when they would not have done so otherwise. I think they have every right to be angry at Valve, because they had no reason to withhold that information, and I don't blame fans for mistrusting them because of it.

The issue I have isn't that I necessarily want them to release the game as soon as possible, or release everything ultra fast, but that they seriously let down their fans. Not only did they promise a release date and break it, but they are keeping us in the dark for so long after initially luring us in with all sorts of info and the assurance of more to come. Is this really fair practice for such a large and popular company, with such a loyal fan base?

 

[bobvodka]

http://www.homelanfed.com/index.php?id=16007
That was from around the time it looked like it was going to be delayed to be released, i direct your attension to the line Valve is still planning to ship Half-Life 2 on Sept. 30, keyword 'planning', and as with life, things dont always goto plan.
That doesnt equal a promise and the fact that there was no news release saying HL2 had gone gold anytime before around the start of Sept kinda clued most people with half a brain in to the fact it wasnt going to make a 30th release date.

The fact you brought hardware for this game doesnt really enter into imo, you've still got better hardware which will play the game on release, so whats the problem? Personaly i'd have waited until it had gone gold or was shipping to buy stuff just to make sure, but then i've got a brain which i use

The infomation you was given was given with the idea that they would make the release date, they didnt make it but they have said you will get more, if the game is released and no more is released they by all means bitch and moan, but right now you dont know what they are doing because as you point out they havent told you and maybe they havent told you because they are busy? I know there was nuffin i hated more when work than to have to take a few hours out of my day, breaking my flow completely, to explain to my boss what was going on.

So, to reiterate, Valve owe you nuffin, if and when a product arrives you can go and buy it if you want it, or you can not (which, if you are really upset with the company would be your best tactic), but they dont owe you that product at all.

 

[Seppo]

Original Half-Life was delayed for a year, and look what happened.

 

[mortiz]

I still think STEAM was the reason for the delay, it would also explain why Vivendi seemed to be kept so much in the dark, Valve probably thrown em the old re-writing code because of the hacking incident to get them of their backs. I doubt Vivendi would appreciate Valve delaying their star product because they were working on a way to bypass Vivendi all-to-gether .

Just think it's only now just made it so we can buy games off Steam.

 

[Kadayi]

Every company owes us something the moment they decide to go into business. We're consumers, and we put the food they live off on their plates. We pay the rent for their offices, so yeah, they do owe us something. They owe it because otherwise they wouldn't exist, their survival depends on what they owe to us.

ROFLMAO, what a luminous imagination :dozey:

 

[Jimlad]

http://www.homelanfed.com/index.php?id=16007
That was from around the time it looked like it was going to be delayed to be released, i direct your attension to the line Valve is still planning to ship Half-Life 2 on Sept. 30, keyword 'planning', and as with life, things dont always goto plan.

You're using their particular turn of words to try and show that Valve never actually said they'd release HL2 on Sep 30th? Sorry, but I think you're deluding yourself there. Valve were asked, straight out, whether they were seriously going to release HL2 on that date, and they replied with an unequivocal "yes". Indeed, they probably were "planning" on meeting that deadline up to a point... I'm not sure I see how your logic works there. I understand that things don't always go to plan, but you might as well be saying "Yes Valve 'said' they'd meet the deadline, but with all things in life people don't always do what they say," which I'm not arguing with for a second. What I don't find acceptable is that they tried to shove it under the carpet for as long as they could, and suddenly didn't seem to care about their fans.

The fact you brought hardware for this game doesnt really enter into imo, you've still got better hardware which will play the game on release, so whats the problem?

I can't disagree more. There *is* a problem. While you might be satisfied with having bought what will be outdated hardware by the time the game's released, other people won't be. I think it's unfair to go "I told you so" to people who actually believed Valve's promises, because they were trusting fans. The fact that people lost out because they trusted Valve most certainly "enters into it", because although you may not have been affected, other people certainly were.

 

[Kadayi]

I can't disagree more. There *is* a problem. While you might be satisfied with having bought what will be outdated hardware by the time the game's released, other people won't be. I think it's unfair to go "I told you so" to people who actually believed Valve's promises, because they were trusting fans. The fact that people lost out because they trusted Valve most certainly "enters into it", because although you may not have been affected, other people certainly were.

How exactly will the hardware be 'outdated' explain your rationale.

 

[Jimlad]

ATI and NVidia have already announced that they will be releasing their new generation of video cards. Further, the prices of the previous generation have come down very considerably. I know that if I had bought a top of the line video card specifically for HL2, I would feel that I had wasted money at least to some extent.

I'll also add that people to bought new hardware for HL2 expected to be playing the game on the best gaming rig they could afford at the time. Wouldn't you be more than disappointed to find that this will no longer be the case when the game's actually released, and that you'd have be able to buy the exact same hardware for practically half the price?

 

[Kadayi]

ATI and NVidia have already announced that they will be releasing their new generation of video cards. Further, the prices of the previous generation have come down very considerably. I know that if I had bought a top of the line video card specifically for HL2, I would feel that I had wasted money at least to some extent.

Do you think that the people who buy top of the line (read overpriced) cards when they are first released, are going to buy those same cards when they are no longer top of the line 8 months later on, with another generation released? In all seriousness I doubt it.

 

[Doc Brass]

As someone said earlier, what's the harm in releasing a few measly screenshots? Or even a video or two to keep the committed fans salivating and to keep things fresh. That doesn't seem like a daunting task.

Completely hypothetical here, but do you think that Valve's thinking is this:

"The leaked version is out there. There is nothing we can do about that. People are playing that, which is way more than we would ever release. So let them get their fill from that. The people who want new stuff will search the appropriate channels and will find videos, screenshots...yada yada. (Even though they're not official releases) So why should we issue anything else ffs. The ones who want it that bad, the hardest core fans, will find it....screw 'em."

 

[wonkers]

The real Reason that we are angry about the current situation is simple .

They are treating us like bitches because they know we will come back for more. It's 100% true and you know it. We want the game so much that they can steal our money (pre-orders), keep us in the dark, make vague hints about the releas date, and generally be assholes about the whole thing.

Do any of you (Valve ows you nothing) people think that they will apologize about the way they handled this? As soon as the game is out they will do nothing but self-glorify themselves.

"Look at this Great game we made, look at this stuff we give you, go buy it. Make us money, we could call you all morons and you would still buy the game. Your our bitch and you love it."

And in the end we will be somewhat happy that we have our game. I will be happy that it's all over.

 

[Kadayi]

As someone said earlier, what's the harm in releasing a few measly screenshots? Or even a video or two to keep the committed fans salivating and to keep things fresh. That doesn't seem like a daunting task.

Completely hypothetical here, but do you think that Valve's thinking is this:

"The leaked version is out there. There is nothing we can do about that. People are playing that, which is way more than we would ever release. So let them get their fill from that. The people who want new stuff will search the appropriate channels and will find videos, screenshots...yada yada. (Even though they're not official releases) So why should we issue anything else ffs. The ones who want it that bad, the hardest core fans, will find it....screw 'em."

Given the time delay, it is highly probable that they have been reworking the look of the game to a greater of lesser degree (what else are the art department going to do for 8 months? they aren't all coders). In which case there would be little point in releasing any media prior to an updated showcase at E3.

 

[Jimlad]

Do you think that the people who buy top of the line (read overpriced) cards when they are first released, are going to buy those same cards when they are no longer top of the line 8 months later on, with another generation released? In all seriousness I doubt it.

I'll begin by saying that the term "overpriced" means different things depending on who you are. A person buying the latest hardware accepts that they are paying a premium for that privelage, and knows that the price-time curve for computer hardware is non linear. They make a judgement based on what they can afford and the benefit they will get from spending that much more money, but in this case Valve's decisions caused certain people to make an unfortunate misjudgement.

I think you're missing the point in questioning whether they would have bought those cards eight months on. Whether they would have or not is not something we can answer, but in all cases it ends up with them having paid too much for something they would not have bought otherwise. Wouldn't you be disappointed if you had done the same? The likelihood is that even if they would not buy the same card now, they could have bought a better one for the same money.