What is going on in Great Britain(for reals this time)

[DEATH eVADER]

I recently read in a pro-gun magazine that due to Great Britain's banning of any defensive or offensive weapon, the crime rate has shot up beyond control. I also read that you cannot even carry a pin needle due to the fact that it is considered a dangerous weapon. Now I wonder whether this is rubbish or if the crime rate is actually as bad as they make it sound. :cheers:

You can carry sharp objects, but not in view of the general public, nor threaten any person with such implement.

 

[DEATH eVADER]

Hey. Newcastle's great. Don't believe what you see on Byker Grove. :cheese:

But it's true, about the Friday nights with all the drunk and drugged up people in the city centres. For just about all the major UK cities.

The problem is some F*ck ups cannot hold there drink and they get pushed into it (buying rounds). So realistically 80% of the UK population are F*ck ups, 10% are F*ckers and the other 10% are loners.

 

[Razor]

The problem is some F*ck ups cannot hold there drink and they get pushed into it (buying rounds). So realistically 80% of the UK population are F*ck ups, 10% are F*ckers and the other 10% are loners.

I am more towards a loner, if those are the only 3 catagories . Well, a loner with friends anyway. And Liverpool has got better, but a lot of the housing estates there are still warzones, i would still never, ever be caught out after dark in Liverpool or Manchester though.

And what do you mean not to believe anything on Byker Grove? i thought it was a documentary on out of control kids in Newcastle?

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

This has probably already been covered but...

I caught a snippet on the news that said something to the effect that the British Govt. felt it necessary to remind people that it's ok to use lethal force when your life is threatend.

What are you going to do beat them to death with an umbrella?

 

[^Ben]

Yeh we chop our food with onions, yummy.

You can also strike first if you feel threatend, you can also use a gun lol.

 

[burner69]

This has probably already been covered but...

I caught a snippet on the news that said something to the effect that the British Govt. felt it necessary to remind people that it's ok to use lethal force when your life is threatend.

What are you going to do beat them to death with an umbrella?

U from america? You don't think you could get a guy out of your house with a baseball bat? I'd rather use 'reasonable force' than just shoot someone, it'd destroy my conscious.

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

Yeh we chop our food with onions, yummy.

You can also strike first if you feel threatend, you can also use a gun lol.

You can carry a gun?

 

[^Ben]

No but people can own guns.

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

U from america? You don't think you could get a guy out of your house with a baseball bat? I'd rather use 'reasonable force' than just shoot someone, it'd destroy my conscious.

When you and/or your loved ones lives are about to be snuffed out in an instant. I guarantee you'd pickup a Glock over a Louisville Slugger given the choice.


And of course I'd rather use 'reasonable force' as well.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Except if you used a glock over here, you'd be up on firearms charges because handguns are banned

You're allowed to own shotguns, as long as they are kept locked in a police-approved metal locker, unloaded and with the ammunition stored separately.
Not really ideal for grabbing in an emergency...

 

[qckbeam]

Except if you used a glock over here, you'd be up on firearms charges because handguns are banned

You're allowed to own shotguns, as long as they are kept locked in a police-approved metal locker, unloaded and with the ammunition stored separately.
Not really ideal for grabbing in an emergency...

Everyone knows criminals aren't afraid of shotguns anyways. You need a handgun, or an assault rifle, or a rocket propelled grenade to scare 'em off.

 

[CptStern]

big mistake if the UK loosens the gun laws

 

[el Chi]

Everyone knows criminals aren't afraid of shotguns anyways. You need a handgun, or an assault rifle, or a rocket propelled grenade to scare 'em off.

I propose free flame-throwers for all OAPs. Let's see some illegal immigrant steal their VCR when they're covered in blazing napalm. It's the only sensible choice.



Of course I'm not serious - just to clarify. And yes, Stern - you're right. Although I'm not positive how the Conservatives feel about it...

 

[KoreBolteR]

no way are we going to relax the gun laws.. no way. :hmph:

 

[el Chi]

And a good thing too.

 

[burner69]

When you and/or your loved ones lives are about to be snuffed out in an instant. I guarantee you'd pickup a Glock over a Louisville Slugger given the choice.


And of course I'd rather use 'reasonable force' as well.

How many burglars, exactly, break into someone's house and kill the people living there? Very few. And either way, statistics show that if you own a weapon in your house, and a burglar breaks in, you're more likely to be shot, as are the rest of your family. I'd rather just lock the doors, and if I was really paranoid, or lived in a dodgy area, keep a tazor, pepper spray, or something similar close at hand.

 

[bliink]

When you and/or your loved ones lives are about to be snuffed out in an instant. I guarantee you'd pickup a Glock over a Louisville Slugger given the choice.

If you aren't trained specifically in the use of a weapon, you should never ever take one into a fight.
That's like.. the most basic rule of being in a fight.
In almost every case when someone brings a weapon they are not trained with into a fight, they have it turned against them, or are simply treated with more than excessive force.

 

[CptStern]

In one year, more children and teens died from gunfire than from cancer, pneumonia, influenza, asthma, and HIV/AIDS combined. (Children's Defense Fund)


The rate of firearm deaths among kids under age 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention)

source

 

[burner69]

In one year, more children and teens died from gunfire than from cancer, pneumonia, influenza, asthma, and HIV/AIDS combined. (Children's Defense Fund)


The rate of firearm deaths among kids under age 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention)

source

Bloody hell, didn't know it was that high. Sheeeet

 

[Rupertvdb]

I used to enjoy target shooting but the firearm ban in england meant that it couldn't happen anymore. I personally don'k think the ban should have gone through but it was a very media driven decision.

However saying that i think that gun crime is too easy and the ban did at least remove firearms from general public access. The problem is the criminal groups which have always had access to firearms and will continue to have access to firearms. In Nottingham in particular there is a case of a small but significant criminal presence who use firearms. This is where England's police and government have failed on the issue of gun crime. The ban just removed weaponry from the public and left them in the hands of the criminals.

The reason we have a high crime rate is not related to gun crime though so i don't see where that tangent came from. We have a hooligan culture which celebrates petty violence and binge drinking. I don't know what it is like in other countries on this front but i have met a scary amount of people who see friday or saturday nights as the night to get pissed and punch someone.

We just have a huge problem with violence here, we are a violent people it would seem. But police are being put to good use catching speeders because of the revenue as opposed to preventing burglaries, muggings, and promoting the service as a positive force as opposed to some enemy.

 

[kirovman]

I used to enjoy target shooting but the firearm ban in england meant that it couldn't happen anymore. I personally don'k think the ban should have gone through but it was a very media driven decision.

However saying that i think that gun crime is too easy and the ban did at least remove firearms from general public access. The problem is the criminal groups which have always had access to firearms and will continue to have access to firearms. In Nottingham in particular there is a case of a small but significant criminal presence who use firearms. This is where England's police and government have failed on the issue of gun crime. The ban just removed weaponry from the public and left them in the hands of the criminals.

The reason we have a high crime rate is not related to gun crime though so i don't see where that tangent came from. We have a hooligan culture which celebrates petty violence and binge drinking. I don't know what it is like in other countries on this front but i have met a scary amount of people who see friday or saturday nights as the night to get pissed and punch someone.

We just have a huge problem with violence here, we are a violent people it would seem. But police are being put to good use catching speeders because of the revenue as opposed to preventing burglaries, muggings, and promoting the service as a positive force as opposed to some enemy.

Yeah, the proles with their binge drinking and violence.

Fed up with people who celebrate into these kinds of things.

 

[olistead]

The gun laws debate is a toughy. The laws should not be relaxed, definitely, but it is obviously true that the criminal gun owners are going to be far harder to disarm! From my, limited, experience, Britain has a much celebrated (unfortunately) culture of being antisocial and, yes, violent. Rape, beatings, burglaries - these are all my main fears, to be honest (rape a little less for me, more for my gf). I do feel that gun crime, in the UK, is something that you get yourself caught up in before you fall victim to it - more often than not. Sometimes, of course, exceptions occur. As for defending against a break in - there is no way I'd want to shoot someone, no way. Perhaps in a passion, when I'm not myself, but I don't accept that.

 

[The Monkey]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,140612,00.html

There was also a television item on this, where there was this typical reporter being all dramatic about it.

There's so much bullshit in that it's not even funny

I knew that fox was shit, but that it was that bad i couldn't imagine.

 

[VaKo]

I'd say britan is realtively crime free (just been to warsaw, where they sold hunting rifles and russian night sights on the market...). But then you come to friday/saturday night. Then its an warzone for 48hrs.

 

[el Chi]

I personally don'k think the ban should have gone through but it was a very media driven decision.

Well, I think the fact that some small children had been murdered maybe had something to do with it.

This is where England's police and government have failed on the issue of gun crime. The ban just removed weaponry from the public and left them in the hands of the criminals.

Far too simplistic an answer. Besides, the alternative of letting the public have all the handguns they want as some kind of opposition almost sounds like rallying round the militia. In any case, I fail to see how increasing the availability of handguns will lower gun crime. If a criminal really wants a gun, they'll get one, legal or not.

The reason we have a high crime rate is not related to gun crime though so i don't see where that tangent came from. We have a hooligan culture which celebrates petty violence and binge drinking. I don't know what it is like in other countries on this front but i have met a scary amount of people who see friday or saturday nights as the night to get pissed and punch someone. We just have a huge problem with violence here, we are a violent people it would seem.

I certainly agree that gun crime is not the real reason for Britain's rise in crime (although I doubt how drastic that rise really is, compared to the media frenzy)
But I wouldn't say hooligan culture is necessarily it, either. Drunken tw*ts aren't really the cause of burglaries or muggings. But you're right, these arseholes starting fights and stuff are disgusting.

But police are being put to good use catching speeders because of the revenue as opposed to preventing burglaries, muggings, and promoting the service as a positive force as opposed to some enemy.

The police really aren't that bad and it's hardly fair to blame them for a job poorly done whilst simulataneously spreading the fear of some sudden uprise in crime. Surely that would mean they're stretched too thinly?
They can't always prevent muggings, etc. as there can't be police everywhere (maybe a good thing).

I think one of the main reasons the police force has a bad reputation is because of its racial problems. Not that the force is saturated with racists, but can we say "Stephen Lawrence", class?

 

[clarky003]

The biggest problem is defiantely not gun crime, thats usually confined to gang culture, they usually only shoot each other, there pretty dumb neanderthol assed idiot's anyway, alot of gangs are being traced through there drug buying habbits and general idiocy, which leads to there illegal weapons being confiscated..

The majority of the 6% increase in crime, is petty crime, robbery, shop lifting, brawls, mostley commited by Yob culture, not to stereotype, but that often envolves, Chav's + Alcohol, general Anti Social behaviour, again its the lack of decent parents, and general sense , perhaps some decent guide through education. That is the heart of the problem. It just so happens that some sensible people think you have to tackle the origins of the problem to see real improvement rather than be brutish all the time and fight fire with fire, which is why legal guns would just create havoc, and not really correct the problem, you just end up with a stale mate if your not civilised about it, yep civilised, its what us humans are good for, being as we have a brain and all, im not in danger here, id rather use the old grey matter than a gun, far more effective in the long term. I suppose weapons have become some kind of quick fix in the US.

 

[burner69]

Gun crime in Britain has gone down... well... let me elaborate. Real gun crime has gone down, replica gun crime went up a little.

And yes, I find it quite sick that despite alcohol causing so many health problems, and being a major cause of crimes, it is advertised so heavily, and very few laws imposed on it.

Free the weed man, free the weed. :smoking:

 

[KoreBolteR]

Gun crime in Britain has gone down... well... let me elaborate. Real gun crime has gone down, replica gun crime went up a little.

And yes, I find it quite sick that despite alcohol causing so many health problems, and being a major cause of crimes, it is advertised so heavily, and very few laws imposed on it.

Free the weed man, free the weed. :smoking:

i jus dont know why they dont ban fags altogether, and replace it with weed .. tbh ;(

its stupid, the government can easily shut the tobacco industry down, but they wont, because a lot of the money they recieve is from the tobacco industry i heared..

 

[burner69]

The law's screwed.
If they give a crap about the number of people dying, and ban weed, e, etc, based on the 'danger' they should examine this

UK drug death figures: deaths per annum
Alcohol[1] 4,235
Tobacco[1] 120,000
The Herb[1,2] 1
LSD[1] 0
Peanuts[3] 7
Viagra[3] 7
Ecstasy[1] 4


[1] Hansard figures for 1995.
[2] Death caused by inhaling vomit [Lord's Hansard report on medicinal cannabis]
[3] BBC news

 

[KoreBolteR]

The law's screwed.
If they give a crap about the number of people dying, and ban weed, e, etc, based on the 'danger' they should examine this

UK drug death figures: deaths per annum
Alcohol[1] 4,235
Tobacco[1] 120,000
The Herb[1,2] 1
LSD[1] 0
Peanuts[3] 7
Viagra[3] 7
Ecstasy[1] 4


[1] Hansard figures for 1995.
[2] Death caused by inhaling vomit [Lord's Hansard report on medicinal cannabis]
[3] BBC news

funny enough i was lookin at these stats just now..
yeah its total bs, its all to do with money, not about our lives.

 

[Rupertvdb]

Well, I think the fact that some small children had been murdered maybe had something to do with it.

yeah, that was the media frenzy. It was a horrific crime, no denying it, but it was a media event within a day.

Far too simplistic an answer. Besides, the alternative of letting the public have all the handguns they want as some kind of opposition almost sounds like rallying round the militia. In any case, I fail to see how increasing the availability of handguns will lower gun crime. If a criminal really wants a gun, they'll get one, legal or not.

Exactly... The reason handguns were banned were to prevent the public from accessing them for crime. If the criminal still gets a hold of the gun then it shows the law is faulty. There was a drop in gun crime which is positive, but this has gradually been clibing back up to the rates of legal days.

I certainly agree that gun crime is not the real reason for Britain's rise in crime (although I doubt how drastic that rise really is, compared to the media frenzy)
But I wouldn't say hooligan culture is necessarily it, either. Drunken tw*ts aren't really the cause of burglaries or muggings. But you're right, these arseholes starting fights and stuff are disgusting.

agreed, muggings are often helped out by alcohol as are burglaries but that is a massive topic that i don't have any figures for so it would just be guess work.


The police really aren't that bad and it's hardly fair to blame them for a job poorly done whilst simulataneously spreading the fear of some sudden uprise in crime. Surely that would mean they're stretched too thinly?
They can't always prevent muggings, etc. as there can't be police everywhere (maybe a good thing).

I think one of the main reasons the police force has a bad reputation is because of its racial problems. Not that the force is saturated with racists, but can we say "Stephen Lawrence", class?[/QUOTE]

The police force is mismanaged, there is an awful lot of effort put into enforcing laws that aren't profitable and lucrative. The police on house calls would probably say they are overstretched, they are being screwed by the government. Those on motorway patrols are probably just fine with their force's size.

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

I used to enjoy target shooting but the firearm ban in england meant that it couldn't happen anymore. I personally don'k think the ban should have gone through but it was a very media driven decision.

However saying that i think that gun crime is too easy and the ban did at least remove firearms from general public access. The problem is the criminal groups which have always had access to firearms and will continue to have access to firearms. In Nottingham in particular there is a case of a small but significant criminal presence who use firearms. This is where England's police and government have failed on the issue of gun crime. The ban just removed weaponry from the public and left them in the hands of the criminals.

The reason we have a high crime rate is not related to gun crime though so i don't see where that tangent came from. We have a hooligan culture which celebrates petty violence and binge drinking. I don't know what it is like in other countries on this front but i have met a scary amount of people who see friday or saturday nights as the night to get pissed and punch someone.

We just have a huge problem with violence here, we are a violent people it would seem. But police are being put to good use catching speeders because of the revenue as opposed to preventing burglaries, muggings, and promoting the service as a positive force as opposed to some enemy.

Maybe the UK's viloent crime wouldn't be so high if people defended themselves. I think that's what the Govt. was trying to tell it's people.

I don't recall who said it but, and armed society is a polite society.

 

[PvtRyan]

Maybe the UK's viloent crime wouldn't be so high if people defended themselves. I think that's what the Govt. was trying to tell it's people.

I don't recall who said it but, and armed society is a polite society.

Polite because you have to fear getting shot if you utter the wrong words? Sounds nice.

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

Polite because you have to fear getting shot if you utter the wrong words? Sounds nice.

Pissants boozing it up and thrashing the neighborhood.... Sounds nice.

And yes... If YOU had to think twice before insulting someone... Well we know you'd never insult someone..........<Implied>

 

[CptStern]

I don't recall who said it but, and armed society is a polite society.

canada's largest city of approx 4 million had 53 murders in 2003. less than half were committed with a firearm, can you name one american city of comparable size that has so few murders per year?

 

[burner69]

Maybe the UK's viloent crime wouldn't be so high if people defended themselves. I think that's what the Govt. was trying to tell it's people.

Considering all figures go against this I'd have to say that was BS.

 

[el Chi]

yeah, that was the media frenzy. It was a horrific crime, no denying it, but it was a media event within a day.

Of course it was a media event! I'm a little confused here - it shouldn't have been a media event? Neither the media nor the public had no right to be shocked or call into question handgun laws that allowed the crime to take place?

Exactly... The reason handguns were banned were to prevent the public from accessing them for crime. If the criminal still gets a hold of the gun then it shows the law is faulty. There was a drop in gun crime which is positive, but this has gradually been clibing back up to the rates of legal days.

No it doesn't show that the law's faulty. By that logic, all laws should work perfectly or they're defunct. If all laws worked perfectly then there'd be no need for the law in the first place because no-one would be tempted to contravene the ideal and then we're in some cycle of catch-22 hell that's started to hurt my head...
Seriously, though - it doesn't showthat the law is faulty. Does the occurance of murders, drug abuse or theft prove that laws to counter those are fundamentally flawed? I don't think so. It's the personal choice to act against the law that is "flawed," if such a word can be appropriate.

agreed, muggings are often helped out by alcohol as are burglaries but that is a massive topic that i don't have any figures for so it would just be guess work.

Erm... Muggings and burglaries, as I believe I said before, are not carried out by drunk people. Certainly not on the whole I would imagine. They're situations where you sort of need your wits about you, and stumbling around pissed is hardly going to keep you inconspicuous when you break into someone's house.

Maybe the UK's viloent crime wouldn't be so high if people defended themselves. I think that's what the Govt. was trying to tell it's people.
I don't recall who said it but, and armed society is a polite society.

Utter nonsense. Well, as Stern and Burner said...
I'd also like to point out that, since the ban on handguns after the Dunblane massacre, there have, as far as I am aware, been no school shootings. How many have there been in the US?

 

[burner69]

Erm... Muggings and burglaries, as I believe I said before, are not carried out by drunk people. Certainly not on the whole I would imagine. They're situations where you sort of need your wits about you, and stumbling around pissed is hardly going to keep you inconspicuous when you break into someone's house.

Yeah, drunk people just tend to stick to damage to property, violence, and general anti-social behaviour.

Here's where the law's f**ked with regards burglaries:

50% of property crimes in the UK are committed by heroin addicts supporting addiction. Now, in the illegal heroin market the prices of smack are pushed up phenonomally high. If it were legalised, and sold by pharmacies the price would drop several times over, making it a very affordable habit, even for the poorer people in society. Add to that giving them clean needles to prevent the spread of AIDS, and making them inject in a safe environment with health advisors at hand to help them overcome addiction - you've gone and solved a whole lot of problems with one stone.

But of course as soon as you legalise heroin everyone will be down their local injection centre getting smacked up, I know I would

 

[el Chi]

Yeah Burner, let's legalise skag In fairness, you could tax it very well. That means more money for the NHS, that they can then spend on vast shipments of methodone when people decide they want to quit

 

[Edcrab]

Well, you all know my position. Have the lot of them rendered down into inexpensive fuel. Not exactly enviromentally friendly, but just include the eco-activists in the revolutionary power program and no one will notice, or, more accurately, dare to comment.

And yes, I am a complete bastard with no regard for any recognised moral or ethical values, but then again so is a large portion of the planet. We spend far too long catering to the criminal element, who have the gall to complain about our own methods- they should start feeling glad that we lack the death penalty but retain values high enough to rule out torture and general cruelty, something I still think many repeat offenders would benefit from.