What would keep you from joining the military?

[$kelet0r]

oh :|
sorry for being slow :E

 

[Solaris]

Are the Irish rangers stationed in anywhere hostile these days?

 

[kirovman]

I'd be much more effective serving my country from behind a desk.

Are the Irish rangers stationed in anywhere hostile these days?

Disneyworld ;(

 

[dantewilliams]

so you're willing to paricipate in the deaths of over 100,000 iraqis just so you can protect the guy next to you? I hope your conscience is clear because that's a decision you'll have to live with your entire life ..especially if something bad were to happen to you



a country you destroyed, a population you came close to extreminating ..that's a pretty hypocritical if you ask me




it took 3 weeks to destroy (desert storm) 12 years to depopulate (sanctions) and another 3 to completely and utterly destroy it beyond hope of repair, Iraq is now the worst/most dangerous place on earth no thanks to you (the US)




you're not rebuilding, in fact nothing gets done ...LISTEN to the interview I linked to




that's what everyone thinks before they go, too bad the reality isnt the same:


""Sergeant First Class John Meadows summed up the prevailing attitude amongst his colleagues telling the Evening Standard that Iraqi fighters were dressed in civilian clothes.

You can't distinguish between who's trying to kill you and who's not," he said.

Like, the only way to get through s*** like that was to concentrate on getting through it by killing as many people as you can, people you know are trying to kill you. Killing them first and getting home.

There was no dilemma when it came to shooting people who were not in uniform, I just pulled the trigger.

It was up close and personal the whole time, there wasn't a big distance. If they were there, they were enemy, whether in uniform or not. Some were, some weren't.

Describing the scene during combat Richardson admitted shooting injured soldiers and leaving them to die.

He said: "S***, I didn't help any of them. I wouldn't help the f******. There were some you let die. And there were some you double-tapped.

Making a shooting sign with his hand he went on: "Once you'd reached the objective, and once you'd shot them and you're moving through, anything there, you shoot again. You didn't want any prisoners of war. You hate them so bad while you're fighting, and you're so terrified, you can't really convey the feeling, but you don't want them to live.

There's a picture of the World Trade Centre hanging up by my bed and I keep one in my flak jacket. Every time I feel sorry for these people I look at that. I think, 'They hit us at home and, now, it's our turn.' I don't want to say payback but, you know, it's pretty much payback."


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnew...ADMIT-SHOOTING-IRAQI-CIVILIANS-name_page.html


you're not the solution, you're part of the problem





lies:

http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/2006/200603/20060330.html

click Part 1

telling the Evening Standard that Iraqi fighters were dressed in civilian clothes.

Stern that article is skewed, its not like they deliberatly attacked civilians, when they see some one shooting at them they shoot back. In split seconds you cant just sit down and examine the whole situation. As far as the wounded enemy combatants, thats war, they wouldnt have been shot if they didnt attack the American forces. Infact there would be no trouble in Iraq if the insurgents werent creating the problem. America is not the problem in Iraq, the Insurgents however are. Although to stay ontopic this subject is for another debate : ).

 

[short recoil]

A good old war from time to time is a good thing.

 

[Nat Turner]

I'm considering going into the military if my other plans fall though. To do what I don't know yet, but it's a life I've always considered

don't, you'll be raped

 

[CptStern]

Stern that article is skewed, its not like they deliberatly attacked civilians, when they see some one shooting at them they shoot back. In split seconds you cant just sit down and examine the whole situation. As far as the wounded enemy combatants, thats war, they wouldnt have been shot if they didnt attack the American forces. Infact there would be no trouble in Iraq if the insurgents werent creating the problem. America is not the problem in Iraq, the Insurgents however are. Although to stay ontopic this subject is for another debate : ).

skewed? it was a direct quote from the soldier who said it ..I cant see how that can be skewed ..it's a direct quote. Read it again, he's talking about not bothering to find out if they're a combatant or not; they're ALL fair game ..as he himself said "it's payback"

america IS the problem in iraq ..if the US hadnt lied it''s way into iraq the insurgents wouldnt be there ..so long as the US is there they will perpetuate and in many cases have a hand in chaos

and yes, in many cases you are DELIBERATELY attacking civilians

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200603/s1597906.htm

 

[Teta_Bonita]

I know this sounds kind of cowardly, but the two main reasons I would't join the military are:
1. I don't want to die
2. I don't want to kill

 

[Nat Turner]

I won the best possible navy RoTC scholarship at one point ($150k to spend at any college I like), but then dropped it for a different scholarship because they didn't like my very mild asthma issues.

 

[OvA]

A girlfriend,

Not anymore

I won the best possible navy RoTC scholarship at one point ($150k to spend at any college I like), but then dropped it for a different scholarship because they didn't like my very mild asthma issues.

I have some mild asthma too, and a foot thing. Otherwise I'd be seriously considering a military stint.

 

[Nat Turner]

Joining the military as a regular isn't worth it at all unless

A) you're poor
B) you've slacked off in high school or other areas of life
C) you don't know of any good job opportunities and are an unskilled worker
D) you don't have family that is willing to help you out
E) you're a natural born killer!

 

[hool10]

My mom’s side grandpa was in the Navy and would get scared because there was so much that could go wrong lol. He was a crewman in a submarine btw. My mom joined the Marines because she had nothing going on in her life and her family was so poor that they had to kick her out. My dad joined the Marines because he had nowhere to go BUT he is an auto mechanic. My mom was a food inspector and my dad was fixing the diesel trucks, etc. Strangely enough if they had not joined the marines I would have not existed because they met at base. They mainly told me boot camp is really bad and your duties can get boring. In fact my mom had to listen to a guy talk about D&D all the time because they have a thing called, "war games". Now my cousin who I remember way back when I was 7 yr old almost graduated college but had a child. So he dropped out and was making tires. Seeing that he can't support his son with a meager paycheck he has joined the Marines also and will be shipped off to Iraq maybe. He is colorblind and he has poor vision in his left eye.

Now tell me dantewilliams, "is he a good soldier even with poor vision?" This really pisses me off. I have a buddy who I've known since 5th grade, now he's joining the marines because he dropped out of high school and had rotc instead of gym at his school. That must have influenced him or something so he is also joining the Marines! And when I was working at Jiffy Lube a guy I knew wanted to join the Army. They denied him because he damaged his right hand tendon of his index finger. But later they let him join! How can he fire a gun normally with a bum index finger dantewilliams? They must really be desperate for people and probably will accept a blind person! I really don't want to lose any of these people due to a stupid war that was created by an even more stupid president. The Military doesn't care if you want a desk job, they have a shortage of people and they want people killing/ dieing. I am not joining the marines because I don't want to support Bush and I don't want to get sand fleas or worse, being KIA. Oh and I almost forgot 2 girls that I know in my school.

One of them wants to join the Air force because she really wants to and the other wants to go into the Peace Corps. You gotta understand that the Iraqi's want to kill us! Well most of us anyways because we're not Muslim. You gotta understand these people don't want us in their land and they don't want our help! Don't listen to all the hype please, please dantewilliams. Get a skilled profession and earn lots of money doing what you like, retire, and then die naturally in your sleep! Everything that these people are telling you is true especially Cpt. Stern. These people are giving you some great advice for a major (and wrong) decision in your life. But still join the Marines I wish you the best of luck. Because not many people will be true hero’s and fight 24/7 to keep us safe. *And btw don't expect them to let you leave once your contract is up. I'm sure they will pull you back in for Iran because they have some WMD rofl! That's actually unfunny because that may happen and that will be Bush's excuse lol.

 

[MiccyNarc]

I believe that there is a war coming, that will dwarf World War II. It's a sick feeling in my stomach...and I doubt the US will come out intact.

Probably just my insane mind at work, but yeah...

I doubt I'll be joining the military.

 

[Zeus]

Lets see...

I don't want to die, and I don't want to kill people. There would have to be a pretty good reason for me to join the military, not some war for oil

 

[Nat Turner]

Lets see...

I don't want to die, and I don't want to kill people

Everyone dies.

 

[ríomhaire]

Everyone dies.

No one wants to.

 

[Nat Turner]

No one wants to.

Yet a lot of people are in the military. Hmm.....

 

[MiccyNarc]

No one wants to.

I've come to grips with the fact and now I don't care anymore.

Fact:
You are all going to die.

:imu:

 

[OvA]

I've come to grips with the fact and now I don't care anymore.

Fact:
You are all going to die.

:imu:

I'd like to point out to everyone that the term "all" does NOT include short recoil.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

For the thread author:

I have considered joining the United States Marine Corps, or the Army. The problem with joining either one of those at this time is the national identity of both. One's trying to configure an 'advanced warrior' approach to soldiery, while the other seems to not know its own purpose.

I could join, but I also have a problem with their 'Basic' program. Over the course of this training program they try and prepare you for real world situations that have exploded all over the globe, past or present, and intend to make a killer out of you, not a thinker.

You see, its the class problems of thinkers (Officers, NCO's, etc.) and the class problems of meatshields that honestly have stopped me from joining now(soldiers). Soldier's are'nt allowed to think, or improvise beyond a certain limit. Officer's are'nt also allowed to improvise, or really try hard not to. I concede, they do try, but its this limitation on the amount of improvisation or instinct and the force adherence of rules and by-the-book handilaws that really intimidate me from not joining.

In short, they don't seem to allow their forces to adapt. They seem not willing to try or trust in anything new, and I understand, there's a conflict on and too much change can be a bad thing. But that to me, is what destroys a sense of true war to me. Where a force cannot make rapid adaptations.

Where a force cannot improvise beyond a point, and the material needed to improvise is infact limited or denied.

I could join now if I wanted to. I know I would have the dedication to survive and be apart of this nations military. It's just for me, fake instillments of anger and machinelike' responses to both death and criminal attrocities I believe highly irresponsible.

As a citizen to join that force, I have this to say to people like them: Either we follow the principles of war (where they're are no principles beyond who is left), or we force ourselves onto adaptation and dignity. It's that lack of both thats driving me from joining.

 

[Nat Turner]

There's 3 normal ways of dying:

a really smelly painful death in a hospital of an old age disease
on a battlefield
in an accident

you pick...

 

[NeptuneUK]

You cannot expect us to respect your views if you absolutely fail to respect ours.

I do not want to join the army, because the army participates in war, and wars kills thousands of people who do not deserve to die.

a couple do though!!

 

[K e r b e r o s]

I do not want to join the army, because the army participates in war, and wars kills thousands of people who do not deserve to die.

The funny think about deservances is, it would seem only humans can choose who 'deserves' to die, and who 'deserves' to live.

Know that nature is cruel, and no matter how far you run from a war, it will be a matter of time before war runs and catches up with you. I say be prepared for anything, but to restate my reasons for not joining, is a lack of freedom for improvisation or tactics.

 

[Nat Turner]

Nobody deserves to die, and you can't prove that they do. That said, nobody deserves to live either, because that's also unproveable.

Also, just because your government decides to invade a country, it doesn't make any killing there any better than murder. Murder is murder.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Also, just because your government decides to invade a country, it doesn't make any killing there any better than murder. Murder is murder.

Murder is murder. Talwhid Al Jihad killing a US Soldier, is indeed, murder also.

A Palestinian Suicide Bomber, splattering himself in a Pizzeria, indeed, murder also. The problem is the excusers. While you say that here, you disgree with war and murder, I'm sure they're are instances were'd you be willing to excuse them.

Did the Nazi's who led Concentration Camps need to die, or is that murder also?

 

[Nat Turner]

Murder is murder. Talwhid Al Jihad killing a US Soldier, is indeed, murder also.

A Palestinian Suicide Bomber, splattering himself in a Pizzeria, indeed, murder also. The problem is the excusers. While you say that here, you disgree with war and murder, I'm sure they're are instances were'd you be willing to excuse them.

Did the Nazi's who led Concentration Camps need to die, or is that murder also?

The Nazi's did not need to die. Any invasion of any country is unjust.

That said, I would like to point out that TRUE self-defense is not murder. The prevention of bodily harm is better known as 'intelligence'. An Iraqi insurgent fighting against U.S. troops who are invading his home at gunpoint is not murdering them.

 

[Fliko]

I don't want to get my haircut. It is just long enough to be out of regulations, not allowing me to join.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

The Nazi's did not need to die. Any invasion of any country is unjust.

Exactly. A person of true morales would stop himself from taking upon the actions of murder. But, for us, as people ... where is your god to save them?

God, Nature, Space, whoever made us as a result, inclined us to expore our own humanities and attempts at special preservation. By this token, I believe the stopping of attrocities absolutely nessecary.

A man does'nt learn through killing another man. The virtue of learning is taught through a man living, for corpses do cannot teach. - From the book of Kerberos Kryptics.

 

[Gorgon]

joining the army = killing humans both innocent and non. :|

 

[dantewilliams]

My mom’s side grandpa was in the Navy and would get scared because there was so much that could go wrong lol. He was a crewman in a submarine btw. My mom joined the Marines because she had nothing going on in her life and her family was so poor that they had to kick her out. My dad joined the Marines because he had nowhere to go BUT he is an auto mechanic. My mom was a food inspector and my dad was fixing the diesel trucks, etc. Strangely enough if they had not joined the marines I would have not existed because they met at base. They mainly told me boot camp is really bad and your duties can get boring. In fact my mom had to listen to a guy talk about D&D all the time because they have a thing called, "war games". Now my cousin who I remember way back when I was 7 yr old almost graduated college but had a child. So he dropped out and was making tires. Seeing that he can't support his son with a meager paycheck he has joined the Marines also and will be shipped off to Iraq maybe. He is colorblind and he has poor vision in his left eye.

Now tell me dantewilliams, "is he a good soldier even with poor vision?" This really pisses me off. I have a buddy who I've known since 5th grade, now he's joining the marines because he dropped out of high school and had rotc instead of gym at his school. That must have influenced him or something so he is also joining the Marines! And when I was working at Jiffy Lube a guy I knew wanted to join the Army. They denied him because he damaged his right hand tendon of his index finger. But later they let him join! How can he fire a gun normally with a bum index finger dantewilliams? They must really be desperate for people and probably will accept a blind person! I really don't want to lose any of these people due to a stupid war that was created by an even more stupid president. The Military doesn't care if you want a desk job, they have a shortage of people and they want people killing/ dieing. I am not joining the marines because I don't want to support Bush and I don't want to get sand fleas or worse, being KIA. Oh and I almost forgot 2 girls that I know in my school.

One of them wants to join the Air force because she really wants to and the other wants to go into the Peace Corps. You gotta understand that the Iraqi's want to kill us! Well most of us anyways because we're not Muslim. You gotta understand these people don't want us in their land and they don't want our help! Don't listen to all the hype please, please dantewilliams. Get a skilled profession and earn lots of money doing what you like, retire, and then die naturally in your sleep! Everything that these people are telling you is true especially Cpt. Stern. These people are giving you some great advice for a major (and wrong) decision in your life. But still join the Marines I wish you the best of luck. Because not many people will be true hero’s and fight 24/7 to keep us safe. *And btw don't expect them to let you leave once your contract is up. I'm sure they will pull you back in for Iran because they have some WMD rofl! That's actually unfunny because that may happen and that will be Bush's excuse lol.

first off you cant join the military with out a high school diploma and it is very hard to join with just a GED, so does your friend have either of those. Secondly your color blind buddy how color blind is he? my grandpa is color blind (cant see the shades of green) he served in vietnam and came back in one piece. Secondly i already stated my reasons for joining, I dont think people here grasp what the military has to offer, there is one con, ONE CON to the military and that is dying. Now you tell me which is worse, having a steady income, paid education, exercise, and a place to stay, OR being a drug addict, Highschool drop out, having a teen pregnancy, or worse. I know most of you are liberal or against the war, and i wont deny those freedoms to you. Yes this current war isnt defending America, or if it is I dont know how it is, but every man and woman in ther armed service is here to serve the United States. We go Where the American people tell us to, Congress and the President messed up, they all should have looked into declaring war more carefully. One thing i wont accept is the military being played as a fool by the current administration. We have a chain of command in the US government, it goes president commadant, general, etc. The military isnt a political party, so whoever has been saying were pawns, cronies, etc please shut the hell up were doing our job. I would also like to remind you that with out the military, we would not be free, every man woman and child that died, died for freedom. I do believe although alot of bad things have happened in Iraq, that the Iraqis should have a chance to govern them selves. I just dont think you guys have all your facts from the region. Some areas look like shit, some areas look like they are improveing, what im saying is your not going to change a culture, or switch governments in 10 or 15 years, its going to be a long process, and the United States will be there for along time. So postponing something that i want to do is stupid. If you all believe im retarded for doing my dream then so be it, if you belive im going to be a baby killer so be it. My job is to make sure you dont have to know fear from a foreign power.

 

[NotATool]

The funny think about deservances is, it would seem only humans can choose who 'deserves' to die, and who 'deserves' to live.

No. Nobody deserves to die.

Know that nature is cruel, and no matter how far you run from a war, it will be a matter of time before war runs and catches up with you. I say be prepared for anything, but to restate my reasons for not joining, is a lack of freedom for improvisation or tactics.

Then let the war come to me.

Did the Nazi's who led Concentration Camps need to die, or is that murder also?

The Nazis didn't deserve to die, the Europeans needed to be saved.

 

[dantewilliams]

The Nazi's did not need to die. Any invasion of any country is unjust.

That said, I would like to point out that TRUE self-defense is not murder. The prevention of bodily harm is better known as 'intelligence'. An Iraqi insurgent fighting against U.S. troops who are invading his home at gunpoint is not murdering them.

However nat, invading and going through a country and liberating them from a dictator isnt immoral is it. Nor is shooting at Insurgents that shoot at you first. Id also like to mention the majority of Insurgents are indeed from across the border.

 

[NotATool]

However nat, invading and going through a country and liberating them from a dictator isnt immoral is it.

No it's not at all immoral.
This is immoral: http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

 

[dantewilliams]

No it's not at all immoral.
This is immoral: http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

thats a load of crap, and even if those statistics were remotely true, are they factoring in who killed the civilians! oh looks like most of those will becoming from the insurgents side. And dont bullshit me with "WELL IF WE WERENT THERE THEN THEY WOULDNT DO THAT." people who attack Coalition forces and who attack Civilians are responsible for thier actions.

 

[NotATool]

thats a load of crap, and even if those statistics were remotely true, are they factoring in who killed the civilians! oh looks like most of those will becoming from the insurgents side. And dont bullshit me with "WELL IF WE WERENT THERE THEN THEY WOULDNT DO THAT." people who attack Coalition forces and who attack Civilians are responsible for thier actions.

Ah okay, that's good to know, it'd be great if you could provide a few peer-reviewed sources and such like I did. As soon as you do that I'll beleive you, just don't want to take in unverified and possibly completely wrong information, I'm sure you can understand.

 

[dream431ca]

I would not join the Canadian military if they become as bad as the US military. If that ever happens, I see all Canadians taking over the government and forming their own.

 

[15357]

1) Nothing

2) It is my duty and its the law to join the military for 3 years.

 

[Steve]

I would join. I suffer from a horrible lack of self-discipline, and it will probably be the reason if I'm not successful in life. My grandfather told me he was as successful as he was because he attended VMI and because of his years in the military.

I've got a good girl right now, though, and I don't want to leave her alone.

 

[15357]

btw, guys who say that they won't join the military:

Let us assume that uh..... *thinks*

Ah yes. Kim Jong Il came and attacked your country. Would you still not join?

 

[$kelet0r]

The difference is 15357 you join the army to defend your nation, I would do the same for mine because mine is worth fighting for (dunno about your quasi-dictatorship but that's another day's discussion. Dantewilliams here is an example of a problem - a man who is joining an army fully aware that he will be asked to start and fight offensive wars not defensive ones. I find that abhorrent - it is an admission that you are in fact morally corrupt or indeed completely lacking of any human empathy.