Why do you have faith?

[theotherguy]

I find it hard to believe that just, "poof" the universe came, solar systems formed, and life formed. "poof" just like that. "poof"

"Poof"

The irony of this post is almost too much to bear.

 

[Taboo]

I believe that "poof" God came around and "poof" the universe came, solar systems formed, and life formed. "poof" just like that. "poof"



"Poof"

fixed.

 

[PortalStormzzzz]

No, your all wrong. It's been proven that there are some areas of molecular actions where time doesn't exist. more research shows all the universes could be present on this timeless area. God always was, and the universe cam about as a system. It is not on its first creation nor its last.

The universe didn't go poof, it exploded from the compressed left behinds of the last universe. on a multiverse theory, this is just expanded.

 

[Cole]

That is pretty implied in my beliefs. As i said earlier. And don't think you are about to change my religion if that is what you are getting it.

I find it hard to believe that just, "poof" the universe came, solar systems formed, and life formed. "poof" just like that. "poof"



"Poof"

Ok good. I just wanted that clarified.
So you don't believe things can just "poof" into existance. Neither can I.
So uhh.. where did your god come from?

Back to the main point. So you wonder why earth is perfect for humans, and only a "god" could have done this. Let me ask you something, have you ever thought that: Humans are perfect for earth. Earth only seems perfect for humans because if it wasn't humans wouldn't exist on it or humans would have evolved to the point where they are perfect for earth. Hmm.. what one could be a better answer... one that has some scientific backings or one that is based off of someone with a creative imagination?

 

[Escaep]

The irony of this post is almost too much to bear.

explain please. but i am thinking that you are going to say that "poof" how did god come around? no one knows. no one will ever know.

 

[theotherguy]

No, your all wrong. It's been proven that there are some areas of molecular actions where time doesn't exist. more research shows all the universes could be present on this timeless area. God always was, and the universe cam about as a system. It is not on its first creation nor its last.

The universe didn't go poof, it exploded from the compressed left behinds of the last universe. on a multiverse theory, this is just expanded.

/facepalm

You're trying, you're really trying to sound like you know what you're talking about... but you don't.

 

[Escaep]

Ok good. I just wanted that clarified.
So you don't believe things can just "poof" into existance. Neither can I.
So uhh.. where did your god come from?

Back to the main point. So you wonder why earth is perfect for humans, and only a "god" could have done this. Let me ask you something, have you ever thought that: Humans are perfect for earth. Earth only seems perfect for humans because if it wasn't humans wouldn't exist on it or humans would have evolved to the point where they are perfect for earth. Hmm.. what one could be a better answer... one that has some scientific backings or one that is based off of someone with a creative imagination?

Oh my goodness i have to pull far to comprehend this. I am sorry, i have no clue what you just said.

 

[Cole]

No, your all wrong. It's been proven that there are some areas of molecular actions where time doesn't exist. more research shows all the universes could be present on this timeless area. God always was, and the universe cam about as a system. It is not on its first creation nor its last.

The universe didn't go poof, it exploded from the compressed left behinds of the last universe. on a multiverse theory, this is just expanded.

One your understanding of time is misguided.
Two it's not that in some areas of molecular actions time does not exist, but rather time becomes so infinently small that it's meaningless.
Three time is relative and its been argued before that all time exists at once. However, that has nothing to do with God.

Simply by using the basic math of "simplification" we find that God is an extra element unneeded and given way to much attention.

 

[Cole]

Oh my goodness i have to pull far to comprehend this. I am sorry, i have no clue what you just said.

I hope that was sarcasm. Because right there is the basis for evolution. Things evolve to survive on there planet. Not that planets are created to be perfect for certain species.


DP my bad.

 

[theotherguy]

explain please. but i am thinking that you are going to say that "poof" how did god come around? no one knows. no one will ever know.

Read Genesis, its filled with such "poofs".

Your god solves nothing. It is merely a special pleading fallacy and an appeal to magic. It doesn't even terminate the infinite regress.

How did God come around? How did he "poof" stuff into existence? Your answer to this question, "no one will ever know" is insufficient, and an argument from ignorance. Your god raises far more questions than the questions that he was invoked to answer in the first place.

Why not simply stop at the universe? It's a much simpler thing to do than to invoke a magical man to do it for you. After all, the universe is observable, and finding things out about its existence is entirely possible and entirely within our reach.

By examining cosmological evidence, we at least stand a chance at explaining the origins of the universe. And like all other scientific questions thus far, I believe we will find reasonable explanations for all these questions without invoking the fallacious "a magic man done it" argument.

 

[Ravioli]

raised in sweden so i have been atheist my entire life. I was shocked the first time i met someone that actually believed in god...its really the same as believing in santa clause.

Many people say "i just believe ok?" because they were indoctrinated as a child...they dont know anything else. Also, brainwashing of hell makes them scared to NOT believe...eternal damnation for those who does not believe according to the bible and quran.

Its disgusting how children gets indoctrinated and their minds stolen from them and given to a religious dogma and puts them in fear of hell if they rationalize about the absurb thing call religion and superstition.


EDIT:


oh and also...how life began has already been proven scientifically

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozbFerzjkz4

how everything came to be? (universe and all) No one knows...people make up answers to know, such as "god". I just accept that i dont know where everything comes from, i dont have to make up a god for it...i just leave it as question.

 

[Pesmerga]

HAY GUYS WHYS DOES U HAS A FAITH?

lol, this thread is ****ing stupid.

 

[Tyguy]

yes, but it's a perfect system. Current studies show that black holes exit the stuff they suck up in the center of galaxies (not entirely sure of the accuracy of this).

From there, it is super-compressed into stars. Some break out of their gravity and go out to the galaxy, others stay inside, giving galaxies their glow.

Stars explode, and rebirth into beautiful other stars. Colliding galaxy's create new super-stars, new planets, new places, and new things to see.

Stop being so pessimistic. Just remember, on the galactic scale, for every woe, two wows come forth.

Maybe its cause im a little high, but this was actually the funniest thing i read all day.

First of all, I think it would be a wise choice to read your "studies" elsewhere, put down your copy of Teen People.

Black holes do not "exit" the stuff they "suck up" into the center of galaxies. Stars are not formed by the super-compressed junk thats "exited" by a black hole. Stars are about 90% hydrogen, 9% helium, and other stuff. This stuff collects in space, which is what forms nebulau and dust clouds. Gravity pulls the stuff together over large periods of time until a protostar is formed, which is a ball of material just beginning to experience nuclear fusion.

Stars do explode, i applaud your science class attendance, but the star itself doesnt turn into another star. Most of the time they turn into a white dwarf, which is basically a very small but hot celestial body. (ignoring the other rarer stages, IE black holes, neutron stars, ect.) When a star supernovas, it ejects the majority of itself into the interstellar medium, and this material does go on help creating stars.

Colliding galaxies do not create super stars Actually, galaxies can collide, and over millions of years can form a larger galaxy. However, the odds of 2 stars colliding is exceptionally small. You have to realize how much distance is between the stars, The closest star to us would take about 10,000 years on the fastest rocket we have to reach.

HAY GUYS WHYS DOES U HAS A FAITH?

lol, this thread is ****ing stupid.

This is the second time you mentioned that yet 4 pages in and your still posting. I think it may be more of you not liking to question your faith.

 

[Pesmerga]

When stars explode, they sometimes create black holes. Your knowledge of astro physics is doubtable, Tyguy. As is your state of mind. I never did think you were the sharpest crayon in the box.

 

[Seagull]

Silly people believe in silly things.

 

[Eejit]

Science is best understood from 3rd hand overheard conversations and space-filling articles in FHM. True story.

 

[PortalStormzzzz]

tyguy, they say that there are white holes in some galaxies. Black holes not in the center deposit their stuff there.

Colliding galaxies are super fast when Andromeda crashes, it will kill off alot of stars

and new stars are formed from the dust of old ones.

It doesn't necessarily prove anything for GOd, it's just my view of the universe.

All I do know is that all these people think they can disprove God somehow. Both sides cannot do it and ultimately waste both party's time.

Just let people believe as they wish and stop making dumb threads like these that attempt to uselessly kill other's faiths. I learned early in life you can't prove much to others, why don't you.

 

[Tyguy]

When stars explode, they sometimes create black holes. Your knowledge of astro physics is doubtable, Tyguy. As is your state of mind. I never did think you were the sharpest crayon in the box.

When did I say they couldn't create a black hole? I didnt feel the need to involve every detail about stellar life cycles, but if you have something you would like to add, please feel free.

I suppose you're also anti-marijuana, you're such a good little confused boy.

You have tried to hijack this thread since the start, go away.

 

[PortalStormzzzz]

where did marijuana come in from?

Persmerga is right. Your mind is lost.

 

[Eejit]

Theories in astrophysics are often less evidence-based - or at least develop ahead of the evidence being found - than in other branches of science (e.g. white holes) so stop getting your knickers in a twist guys.

 

[Tyguy]

tyguy, they say that there are white holes in some galaxies. Black holes not in the center deposit their stuff there.

Who says this!?

Colliding galaxies are super fast when Andromeda crashes, it will kill off alot of stars

I just explained that this isn't the case.

It doesn't necessarily prove anything for GOd, it's just my view of the universe.

Oh, so "they say" is more like "I say", that makes sense now

All I do know is that all these people think they can disprove God somehow.

You cant really disprove anything with that attitude...Id think it more logical to have to prove the existence of god, rather than having to disprove his existence.

I learned early in life you can't prove much to others, why don't you.

Haha, it would seem so now, wouldnt it?

where did marijuana come in from?
Persmerga is right. Your mind is lost.

Marijuana came from god, I've been so ignorant

Why is my mind lost?

 

[PortalStormzzzz]

It's hopeful optimism. In another case, all matter will be sucked up into black holes, the black holes will suck up each other, and eventually all matter will be in a blackhole, explode, and the universe restart.

 

[Pesmerga]

When did I say they couldn't create a black hole? I didnt feel the need to involve every detail about stellar life cycles, but if you have something you would like to add, please feel free.

I suppose you're also anti-marijuana, you're such a good little confused boy.

You have tried to hijack this thread since the start, go away.

You suppose wrong. And if you're going to imply, with absolutely no evidence (kind of like believing in God! *gasp*) that I'm "anti-weed", I suppose I should just say I was pointing an obvious fact out about stars, not implying you didn't know that.

This thread has worse foundations that forum games do. It's become apparent from the evidence of your posts that you're not really sure where you're going with this thread as well as that you understand very little about physics. You're probably not too sure what time of day it is, either, so I'm just going to wait for you to make a huge logical blunder and come in and attack you for it. I probably would have found one already if I had the patience to read the entire thread, but I'll give you a chance to think through your next post.


Edit - Oh, lol, I found one!

I think it may be more of you not liking to question your faith.

Haha, anyone who knows me at all just laughed a little inside at that.

 

[PortalStormzzzz]

here you go tyguy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_hole

Don't know much about it, but all that matter is going somewhere: Law of conservation of mass.

Also, Andromeda will make a mess of out galaxy.

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/astronomy/galaxy_collides_020507-1.html

And no, many say the same as I do. It's theoretical research, but I love it. String theory is taking mainstream

You are still making dumb threads aimed at pretty much doing nothing but sparking useless conversation that ultimately ends up where it began, no where.

Do you even know of the law of conservation of mass? Quantum tunneling? The possible implements to future transportation methods? Perhaps the implement of usage in the pursuit of time travel?

 

[Tyguy]

You suppose wrong. And if you're going to imply, with absolutely no evidence (kind of like believing in God! *gasp*) that I'm "anti-weed", I suppose I should just say I was pointing an obvious fact out about stars, not implying you didn't know that.

Did you know stars are hot? You didnt mention it, must not of known...

Thats the logic you follow?

This thread has worse foundations that forum games do. It's become apparent from the evidence of your posts that you're not really sure where you're going with this thread as well as that you understand very little about physics. You're probably not too sure what time of day it is, either, so I'm just going to wait for you to make a huge logical blunder and come in and attack you for it. I probably would have found one already if I had the patience to read the entire thread, but I'll give you a chance to think through your next post.

Its become ever more apparent to me that you just hate it when people question their faith, and you have to resort to being a troll in order to remedy it. Why is my understanding of physics being questioned? Name a single thing in that post that is not correct.

You're really trying your hardest to derail this, gotta give you credit

here you go tyguy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_hole

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicorn

Also, Andromeda will make a mess of out galaxy.

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/astronomy/galaxy_collides_020507-1.html

I didnt happen to notice anything in that article of stars colliding, did you?

You are still making dumb threads aimed at pretty much doing nothing but sparking useless conversation that ultimately ends up where it began, no where.

I dont see a discussion about religious mentality as useless conversation.

 

[PortalStormzzzz]

there is no use in questioning faith as few people abandon it. There is, and always has been, a 15% difference in Faith vs Atheism in the 85:15 ration in the US. Every onece in a while it drops or raises 15%, and everything you say will not change it. A new "Great awakening" is in the midst of being made which will raise it 15% followed, as usually, by a depression, war, or something else that will drop it 15%. History repeats itself.

 

[Tyguy]

there is no use in questioning faith as few people abandon it.

Wrong, questioning faith is the one thing we have in this world. The ability to reason.

 

[PortalStormzzzz]

If your talking about scientific faith, then yes. Personal faith, no. If someone sees a ghost, hears a dead person, etc, and you say they didn't because there is no afterlife, then you essentially go nowhere, because it's not going to work. People have their beliefs, and it's not a two way street unless you are weak in spirit, towards which there are few in both groups.

You could say a million times how GOd doesn't exist, but it won't change my faith. Even better, I listen to all words from all places. I read the quran, etc. And I see how different systems work. If you think you will somehow convert the Muslims of the world, then be my guest. Hope you have a neck guard. People do not change faiths easily. Be my guest and try, Tell me the number of people you've managed to convert?

 

[jverne]

well my proof is the system of checks and balances throughout the universe and how, despite the messy environment, everything works. You can call it anything you want, but to me it's proof of perfection, though a messy one.

Also, the Bible says "In a beginning" in the Jewish on, not THE beginning. Recent science shows the universe is in a system of big bang, contraction, big bang, etc etc.

It also says the Earth Became nothingness, not was created nothingness, hinting at the big bad mother****ing meteorite that killed of the dinos and made the Earth nothingness for millions of years.

nope pal...right now scientists cannot find enough matter to pull the universe back together. for now the universe is just expanding.

It's hopeful optimism. In another case, all matter will be sucked up into black holes, the black holes will suck up each other, and eventually all matter will be in a blackhole, explode, and the universe restart.

black holes don't suck forever you know, once they have enough matter they case being black holes. stars are mostly formed in nebulae.



but wouldn't you think god would mention some things if he was all powerful and knowing.

"in a beginning" you know how vague that is. the writer surely knew other older religions and myths...he just used that taking a neutral stance.

what all the mistakes, grammatical and others found in the holy books. the inconsistencies.

why would god make us...just for laughs...his universal big brother.

what will happen when humans become a singularity and there is no more death? will there be a shortage in heaven?

come on man...everything religion throws out is so full of errors and illogical.

you know how fragile humanity is...one cosmic event and we become dust...the universe would never hear about any jews, muslims, christians.

what kind of prayers were answered that made you believe?

i pray that religion becomes marginalized to the point of bad humor...i hope god answers me. damn i feel more stupid for even writing that.

 

[Stigmata]

When stars explode, they sometimes create black holes. Your knowledge of astro physics is doubtable, Tyguy. As is your state of mind. I never did think you were the sharpest crayon in the box.

What he said was entirely accurate. Good work.

Anyway, Portalstormzzzz (and anyone else with "faith"): The burden of proof rests on you. People who align with your religions/viewpoints have had two thousand years to prove themselves right. I see no evidence to support any faith-based claims, so you are all following a logic-free belief system.

 

[PortalStormzzzz]

Where does it say black holes eventually end? I did not know this?

Also, Humans will never beat death. Maybe natural death, but there will always be murders, accidents, etc.

And humanity may be fragile, but life itself is indestructible(unless the sun blows up). it cannot be killed. I care little for humanity, much more do I care for the continuation of life itself.

And indeed the Bible is contradictory, but you must look at when the books were written. Somewhere written when Israel was occupied and they needed unification. Some are man, some is God. Man tends to be more violent then God, so just have a look. I highly doubt God would be all high and mighty and forgive Adam and Eve, save Noah, and all that great stuff, then in Leviticus go and basically say stone a person for every evil he does.

What you still said doesn't change what most believe. Religion will never die as people will always have their proofs, which are indestructible and will be passed down by generations, increasing their numbers. Atheists will have kinda and pass the same down, thus the ratio of Atheists to Believers will remain constant.

atheism becoming the dominant belief system is beyond ever happening.

 

[PortalStormzzzz]

What he said was entirely accurate. Good work.

Anyway, Portalstormzzzz (and anyone else with "faith"): The burden of proof rests on you. People who align with your religions/viewpoints have had two thousand years to prove themselves right. I see no evidence to support any faith-based claims, so you are all following a logic-free belief system.

No, the burden of proof is on no one. Both sides cannot win. It's a fruitless conversation.

Both sides have their own sciences with their own proofs. It simply will not work. Both sides will never win.

 

[Stigmata]

No, the burden of proof is on no one. Both sides cannot win. It's a fruitless conversation.

Both sides have their own sciences with their own proofs. It simply will not work. Both sides will never win.

Uhh, no. No no no no no.

ONE side has science. ONE side has proofs. That side is science.

The concept of "burden of proof" is that you shouldn't believe in anything unless there is at least some empirical evidence to support the hypothesis. If there is none, then believing in that hypothesis runs against all logical thought. You show me evidence that God exists, that the Bible is true, that we were created by divine intervention, and I'll believe you. But that evidence doesn't exist, so for all anyone knows, THERE IS NO GOD.

[edit] And just to reiterate: EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE. EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE. EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE. Any other evidence is useless.

 

[PortalStormzzzz]

There is of course the millions of people who have had proven unexplained mysteries happen to them. That millions of separated people have seen the same view for heaven, that all have had the same view of death, and that all these various "near death" experiences people have had, who have never seen each other, all see mainly the same thing.

This is what I mean. My proof isn't considered proof to you, just as your proof isn't considered proof to me. Hence the burden of proof is on no one. Seeing as what you consider science may not be seen the same way to others just as their science would not be considered science to you, you just proved my point that neither side can win.

 

[Stigmata]

Well if you don't want to discuss within the rules of basic human logic, then that's fine by me.

I really wish MechaGodzilla was still around. I can't handle all this frustration.

 

[PortalStormzzzz]

Exactly. both sides call the other stupid or illogical. Hence neither can win. This is why it is best to let bygones be bygones and let people believe as they wish. "Lassie Fair" tolerance I suppose

 

[Avoidist]

My proof isn't considered proof to you, just as your proof isn't considered proof to me.

Tell me, do you find fault in the scientific method? Because if you do I would really love to hear about it.

And just letting people remain ignorant isn't exactly the best method for advancing society. There's this little thing called the pursuit of knowledge that those of us studying and teaching science hold very dear.

 

[PortalStormzzzz]

2 things.

1) I find no fault in science, but alot of others do, which brings me to the second point.

2) There are those who would rather not hear things from science. And they tell their kids that. Seeing as kids trust parents more then school, it ultimately ends up waisting money in bothering to teach them if they won't even listen to begin with.

Case in Point. WAAAY back in grammar school, We were learning Evolution. well, after a number of years, there were still many in the class who refused to believe it because, and I quote, " My Mom/Dad told me so". Upon further questioning of why, they simply said the scientists were wrong. You could say anything, they'd just simply reply you're wrong. They needed no evidence, just what they were told so.

So why even bother if they refuse to accept it?

 

[jverne]

Where does it say black holes eventually end? I did not know this?

Also, Humans will never beat death. Maybe natural death, but there will always be murders, accidents, etc.

And humanity may be fragile, but life itself is indestructible(unless the sun blows up). it cannot be killed. I care little for humanity, much more do I care for the continuation of life itself.

And indeed the Bible is contradictory, but you must look at when the books were written. Somewhere written when Israel was occupied and they needed unification. Some are man, some is God. Man tends to be more violent then God, so just have a look. I highly doubt God would be all high and mighty and forgive Adam and Eve, save Noah, and all that great stuff, then in Leviticus go and basically say stone a person for every evil he does.

What you still said doesn't change what most believe. Religion will never die as people will always have their proofs, which are indestructible and will be passed down by generations, increasing their numbers. Atheists will have kinda and pass the same down, thus the ratio of Atheists to Believers will remain constant.

atheism becoming the dominant belief system is beyond ever happening.

actually i was somewhat wrong on that. black holes end because of hawking's radiation. you we're more right on that.

The process by which black holes lose matter is called Hawking radiation, after Stephen Hawking, the person who first figured out how it might happen. How it happens is a complicated story. One way of looking at the story uses concept of "virtual particles." At any moment, particle-antiparticle pairs are appearing and disappearing at any location, even just near the event horizon ("surface") of a black hole. These pairs exist for a short time, so short that we cannot measure their masses accurately enough to even know that they are there (however, we do know of their presence by the other effects they cause). But, for a pair near a black hole, one of the particles may fall into the hole, leaving the other without a partner; the particle left behind can't be quickly annihilated by its now missing partner (which is what happens normally). So the lonely particle left behind finds itself no longer "virtual," but now "real," just like any particle in your body. Since this particle is now real, it contains some amount of mass, and that mass has been supplied by the energy of the black hole (through the hole's gravity): the now real particle exists because it has taken mass from the black hole. Thus, gradually, mass leaves the black hole in the form of new particles appearing outside the hole. This process by which black holes lose mass is very slow (at least for massive black holes made from stars), so the time it would take for a typical black hole to eventually disappear is very long. (For a black hole of a mass equal to the mass of the Sun, the entire process would take about 10**66 years, or 1 with 66 zeros after it.)

but still you need to prove me that black holes are the precursors of a new stars. since by the time a black hole disappears i wonder how many stars can form and are there even the right conditions to form a star. but since this is science i'm always open to new ideas.


but anyways that doesn't give one tiny bit of evidence that there is a god, that's just a cosmic event.


what do you think will happen to someones soul when there will be no more individuals?

life is fragile...because it lives on a tiny rock 1 AU from the sun. one big solar/cosmic event and the earth becomes a barren meteorite. and anyway how is religion without humans even possible?

so if i got this right...in what god do you believe? as it seems you have also a problem with the common religions.


i think atheism will prevail over theism one day. the day when humanity is united, when technology will solve all our materialistic problems, when physical and mental diseases will be eradicated. this day people won't need a god to help them live trough their (now horrible and miserable) lives.

 

[PortalStormzzzz]

Black holes do not create stars. Dead stars do.

And life is not only on Earth. I care little if there is no proof, the universe is too big for it to only be here.

And Atheism will never take over because people will always believe something. There are locals all over the world with unexplained phenomenons. Are they ghosts? who knows, they seem so to me. There will always be that psychic or prophet who mysteriously gets it right on what people think or how their dead relative was. It just seems to me that religion cannot be destroyed, for all faiths. I have no problems with any of them, but the likelihood of religion dieing is lower then anything. Man will be united when all faiths join together. It's already happened for most Christian denominations as well as the Catholic church with Judaism and a few other little unions of faiths. Even now, Europe is going back to religion mainly because the Muslims are taking over and mass producing.

neither side will win though because it simply will not happen. The continuation of the human being means the continuation of faith and lack of faith, as new ideas always kill it or bring it forth, strengthening it somewhere while rising elsewhere. No faith or lack of faith will ever takeover 100%.