Why Work on Stupid Mods?

[Dario D.]

WHY, OH WHY, DO PEOPLE WORK ON STUPID MODS???!!

I cannot believe how many talented people I've seen sell themselves to some of the stupidest, most short-lived, paper-thin mods, utterly *doomed* to last no longer than 30 minutes before you've tried everything and squeezed it dry.

Why waste so much hard work? Can you modders, programmers, artists not see an inch past your nose? Can you not see that so many of these mods are just plain STUPID?

Im a modder and artist - I know how hard and fricken LONG it takes to get some content made, but the most important thing is knowing whether or not it's even WORTH anything.

I just wanted to give a heads up, before you sell yourselves to a year of fruitless work. Make sure you don't start or join any lame mods, whether they be based on paper-thin game design, uninvolving, unrewarding gameplay, or just plain suck... Real mod teams NEED YOU available to work on fruitful projects that could actually last.

It's just so sad that most talented people are sold to a guranteed failure mod out there.

Think before you join. :|
For every mod that's successful there are 10 mods that fail, and countless hours of wasted sweat and toil. Why? Because people didn't think things through first. The 10 mods that fail are 10 people who didn't use their eyes.

 

[Jeremy]

lol...nice rant...

 

[musicalmayhem]

This is a pretty stupid post.... It's like asking why someone would join a shitty football(soccer) team if they know they are going to lose more than half the games.

Everyone starts somewhere and then you work your way up. and who says the mod cant change over time - maybe the team will come up with some great new ideas, maybe a highly talented modeler thinks they can bring some life to a mod that has story they like but lower talent... This is what team work is all about.

Take a look at the Real Madrid soccer team - has some of the best players in the world yet they arent that great.

 

[musicalmayhem]

Think before you join. :|
For every mod that's successful there are 10 mods that fail, and countless hours of wasted sweat and toil. Why? Because people didn't think things through first. The 10 mods that fail are 10 people who didn't use their eyes.

waisted sweat and toil?.. a moder gains experience with everything and anything the make and they learn from their mistakes + everything they made for the mod can be used in a portfolio. The whole structure of mods is trial and error.... Not every mod can be top notch.

Also most of the big mods that stand out already have all their positions filled so how can people with awsome skills join if its full?

 

[Stigmata]

waisted sweat and toil?.. a moder gains experience with everything and anything the make and they learn from their mistakes + everything they made for the mod can be used in a portfolio. The whole structure of mods is trial and error.... Not every mod can be top notch.

And not to mention that anybody who puts work into a lackluster mod could very easily go on to make another mod that's ten times better, simply through the experience gained.

 

[Dario D.]

Please don't deviate from the point, or promote making dumb decisions.

Of course you can use the content in a portfolio. Of course you can move to a better mod later on and learn from your mistakes.

But is it a good idea do stupid things? Of course not. I'm just saying, "open your eyes and avoid the pain."

Because you know, breaking your arms can teach you how to use your toes as fingers. So is it a good idea to go break your arms?

Nor is it a good idea to live blindly.

That's all I'm saying.

lol...nice rant...

Thanks. It's actually heartfelt advice, but yeah :angel:
I really dont intend to hurt anybody's feelings, but people who've made the mistake at least a little can feel it.

 

[JrdnGrn]

He's obviously speaking from past experience.

 

[MetalPiranha]

Dario - If you want to change something - don't tell others what to do.

Become a good modder and take part in what you call a 'good' mod.

 

[musicalmayhem]

This thread is a dumb decision.

And why are you making fun of people with no arms? jeeze... ive seen people able to pour a glass of milk no problem with their feet.

 

[JrdnGrn]

This thread is a dumb decision.

And why are you making fun of people with no arms? jeeze... ive seen people able to pour a glass of milk no problem with their feet.

Um....he wasn't making fun of them, just stating a point. None the less...thats very disturbing that you've witnessed someone poor a glass of milk with their feet.

 

[Dario D.]

He's obviously speaking from past experience.

Partially... I know what it's like to lose work - my mod moved from UT2004 to HL2, since UT2004 kind of died. Not everything could be ported, and I lost many weeks of very, very hard work.

Im working on a mod for HL2 now.

-

Dario - If you want to change something - don't tell others what to do.

Become a good modder and take part in what you call a 'good' mod.

Sorry for potantially saving someone a year of wasted hard work. Now that person can spend a year working on something fruitful if I got him thinking more carefully.

And I'm working on a mod of that description...
http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=75727

This thread is a dumb decision.

And why are you making fun of people with no arms? jeeze... ive seen people able to pour a glass of milk no problem with their feet.

My point exactly. If people don't properly plan and think things through, they may find themselves peeling potatoes with their feet. Could have been avoided. (it's quite amazing that people can do that though)

- Man, how did I know some people would take this upside-down? I'm trying to save modders years of wasted work. What's to complain about?

There are too many failed mods for you to be taking this so sourly. It's not like failed mods and wasted work are rare. Something like 9/10 mods fail.

 

[musicalmayhem]

yea but thats almost destiny... when you first start a mod you think it will work because you have to have "faith" in it and you want to believe it will work. but who knows maybe even your mod could fail completely... but so what - you still got all the practise making stuff, you have stuff you can put in your portfolio, etc. Just because you lose a mod doesnt mean you lose what you learnt.

 

[Recoil]

Good post Dario D. :cheers: I know your problem, we can talk about it, if you like...

...so, you talented people, join my mod!

 

[Dario D.]

Sure, I'm interested to know if you can see a flaw (check your inbox).

Edit: Oh, ok... you meant something else

 

[Angry Lawyer]

For every mod that's successful there are 10 mods that fail, and countless hours of wasted sweat and toil. Why? Because people didn't think things through first. The 10 mods that fail are 10 people who didn't use their eyes.

You're underestimating. About 25-40 mods fail before anything is produced, and about 50% of those mods that do produce an alpha version fail before the next version.

The biggest problem is that the majority of mod leaders these days aren't coders, or even mappers. They're "PR guys", "Musicians", "Web engineers", "Concept Artists", "Ideas people", and "Sound technicians".

If you're making a mod, and you don't have any form of practical modding skill, then your mod is destined to fail.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Fluffy Kitten]

/me opens can labelled "worms"

How much modding skill do you need to lead ?
Mapping is arguably the easiest modding skill to learn... could a mapper lead a mod team ?

For anyone else, I'd have suggested "Coders only !" for mod leaders... But as I have (in my opinion) a spanky mod idea, and dispite efforts to learn, an absolutely shite knowledge of coding, I'd like to be an exception to the rule.
I can happily map, and am currently learning to model, but even having 2 practical modding skills doesn't seem enough in my eyes to stop me being one of those people you see on this forum effectively crying "make my mod for me, and I'll poorly voice act the main character !". (Which is why I'm slowly toiling away by myself... I'd really like to have something to show before asking for help)
Even if I turn out to be the bestestest mapper and modeller in the world, all I'd be able to make would be a really nice map with some really nice characters standing about in it, playing under HL2DM rules... a coder might make a game that looks like crap, but at least he has a game...

Anyway, yeah... where do "useful skills for mod teams" stop being rubbish help wanted posts, and start being "I'm taking this one seriously" help wanted posts ?

 

[Angry Lawyer]

The difference between the two is asking for help and having nothing to show, and asking to help while actually having something playable to show.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Fluffy Kitten]

But only a coder could really make something playable... anyone who's just an "artist" would only be able to show stuff with HL2DM rules.

 

[short recoil]

I have seen enough of these "New mod idea, require: coders, skinners, mappers, sound artists" threads
Where they have a rubbish forum with a few members.
Oh we have got dave a concept artist, whos drawings look like something a mother would stick to the fridge.
Steve the mapper whos been mapping since CS S release and makes terrible maps that look like wolfenstein 3d.

I hate it when they want to be a leader and they have no experience whatsoever, just a 16 year old who plays CS and has come up with a crap idea.

I would make a suitable team leader however because i have skills in near enough every area.
I have been mapping for 7 years now, modelling for 2 years, sound editing for a year and just started coding..............and i am also very good at concept art/design
I am part of a mod team at the moment and to be honest i am doing most of the work, if i leave the mod collapses.

I cant really be ****ed to carry on if everyone else does very little, even if it is high quality work.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

Indeed. Which is why, in my opinion, Artists rarely make good team leaders.

-Angry Lawyer

Oh, and Recoil - you should leave your mod, if only for a week or so. Then come back and ask to be the leader. They'll realise that it takes more talent than 'ideas man' to run a mod.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[short recoil]

Indeed. Which is why, in my opinion, Artists rarely make good team leaders.

-Angry Lawyer

Oh, and Recoil - you should leave your mod, if only for a week or so. Then come back and ask to be the leader. They'll realise that it takes more talent than 'ideas man' to run a mod.

-Angry Lawyer

Oh sorry, i didn't state it clearly enough.......i am the joint leader

I started the mod which is an excellent idea with a friend.........he produces top quality work but dosn't seem to get anything done.
The other member is again a pro but has done nothing because he is bogged down with uni and work.

I would love to continue the mod but i dont see the point if its near enough just me doing it, the main reason i have not employed many people is because i have not seen any really good people up to the job............i have considered joining another mod but i have not seen any that are THAT good yet.

 

[Argyll]

With regards to leading a mod... Typically the 'leader' is the one who has designed the mod. In order to have a good design to work, the designer should understand how the engine works (know its limitations especially) and also really needs to know and understand gameplay dynamics (what works and what doesn't). That's why it's good to have a Coder or Mapper doing the design, because they know best how the engine works.

However, the leader of the mod needs to be good at more than just the design. They need good leadership and management skills in general if they are going to lead the team to accomplish the design goals.

 

[Ames]

From what I've seen from the gaming industry, it is usually the artists who make the best mods. Like said by Argyll, they know how the engine works and thus can help to design and shape the mod to its full potential. For example, HL and HL2 was written by Marc Laidlaw.

Marc Laidlaw is the author of half a dozen strange novels, including Dad’s Nuke and The 37th Mandala. He is also the person most responsible for making sure the edgy and intense Half-Life storyline worked in the game. While writing a cover-story about Quake for Wired Magazine, he determined that level designers had the coolest jobs on earth--although the fact that he’d been working as a legal secretary for 10 years might have warped his perceptions very slightly. Oddly, he refuses to do anyone else’s typing.

He was a level designer...

I just couldn't help getting sucked into the world of computer games-storygames-whatever you want to call them. In the process of writing the Book of id, I really got most interested in the creation of 3D maps-and Tim Willets turned me on to all the resources available on the Internet for budding level designers. I started building Quake maps (the only one I finished is called shoggoth.bsp, and you can find it in the usual sites on the Internet, although I can hardly bear to look at it now). When John Romero heard that I wanted to build levels and write for games, he offered me a position at ION Storm-an incredibly flattering offer, which I considered long and hard before deciding that I really didn't want to move to Dallas. But I'd heard whispering about this place that was starting up in the Seattle area, and I've always loved the Northwest best. My interest in level design led me to Worldcraft, which led me to Ben Morris, who led me to Valve. And when I first came up to see what they were doing, and met the team at Valve, everything just clicked. I can't say it's something I always wanted to do, because when I was in that formative state (my early teens), I was just reading tons and tons of horror and science fiction and fantasy, and when I wasn't reading it I was writing it.

His map description:
http://public.planetmirror.com/pub/idgames2/levels/s-u/shoggoth.txt

There are some other examples out there, but I'm too lazy to find them.

 

[Gray Fox]

Yeah but wait a minut if you expect starting working on a mod that it's going to become the next dod, team fortress or cs then you're shure to be dissapointed. People mainly do it for themselfes, to do something interesting, to have soemthing fro a future resume.
I say if a mod sounds fun, and your parthners are good people go for it.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

Laidlaw didn't lead, he was hired later in the development to do a storyline. He's a novelist, who writes Sci-Fi Horror (37th Mandala is Lovecraft inspired).

Artists don't know the limitations of the engine, either, it's up to the coders to tell them what can and can't be done.

A mod team needs a strong head that knows what he's doing, has some practical skills, and can lead. I don't have leadership skills, so I'm doing a mod on my own. But a mod (or any game) will only be as good as the skills of the members, and the only way their skills can be conveyed is by a knowledgeable person who knows what's feasible, and knows leadership. And people who know what's feasible usually have some developing experience on the engine they're working on.

-Angry Lawyer

Oh, and a Shoggoth is a monster from Lovecraft's books - it's a huge, amourphous, many-mouthed thingie that tends to swallow things up and yell 'Tekeli-Li!'

 

[Dario D.]

Indeed. Which is why, in my opinion, Artists rarely make good team leaders.

In my opinion artists, or whoever it is that's the "think-tank" make the best leaders.

Usually the artists are the better think-tanks, because having a strong imagination and good mind-vision produces more vivid, imagintive, interesting, and fresh concepts.

As far as mods, they also carry alot of weight in the mod-team, because on top of directing it, they are also the ones physically "making the mod", giving them a lot more say-power.

Having an artist/think-tank as a leader is the equivalent of having a soccer player become a soccer coach. They are right down-n-dirty at the level of game design that they need to be.

So many game developers suffer from havnig pin-heads direct the company, just because they started it and have the most money/authority.

And when you have "ONLY" a story guy directing everything, you get games like Halo2 - too much story that overturns the replayability present in Halo 1, before that guy came along.

As far as gameplay, just look at someone like CliffyB (level designer) who leads Epic Games and does their game-design. Would you rather it be a rich PR guy who simply has more authority, or perhaps someone from their publisher, ATARI, running the show?

When anyone but artists and other hardcore game designers run the show, you get games like Deus Ex: Invisible War, and Thief: Deadly Shadows.

Those are at least half-playable, but if you ever played the originals, you'd smack them in the face for taking a good game design and utterly destroying it with terrifying results. That's what happens when pin-heads run the show.

On a professional level though, you wouldn't really want a "modeler" or "concept artists" running the show. Whoever it is that's the brains of the outfit should rise out of the artist's chair to a position of oversight, since there is so much to oversee and direct on a professional level.

It's important to have as much time as you need for thought... and if all you ever were was a PR guy, or a guy with an idea, chances are you'll make very naive decisions. A veteran game artist, with good mind-vision and a very keen sense of "what's good" by all means would always make the best games. Once again, it's like letting a Priest be the Pope. Who else would you want?

There just isn't any other position that could possibly lead a game *better*.


(...but some artists are just artists...)

 

[Pesmerga]

In my opinion, mod leaders who don't program it themselves are more likely to churn out haphazard mods. I know there are a good deal of game designers who lack practical coding abilities, and that a lot of coders don't make good game designers. But if you've got enough motivation to actually begin work on a mod, you've got plenty of reason to learn C++. Coding your own mod makes it flow a thousand times smoother, and usually gives far better results than if a mod leader described what he wanted to a coder and asked him to do it. In my opinion, coders are the least reliable member of a group (not always, of course). Merging the two positions into one man saves a lot of hassle.

About working on doomed mods. So? You've got as much say in a good mod dev team than any member on the roster. If you think the mod is taking a dive towards a slab of cement, email the team leader. Tell him about yours ideas. Modellers gain plenty of experience from any effort they put in, and next time they will have more knowledge to carry on to more successful mods. Generally, most mods that do get off the ground don't make a smash hit overnight. It takes time to develop a fan base and a steady stream of gamers; just because 10,000 people don't download it the first day doesn't mean it might not be the next Counter-Strike.

Edit - Every game designer has an idea about how the game should be. You can't just label unsuccessful games as "bad games", they just don't appeal to the general gamer at that day and age.

I've got this perfect concept of how my hl2 mod should work out. The gameplay, themes, and settings are written in stone with golden lettering and italicized font. Another game designer comes over to my wall and laughs at the ludacris concept, scorns me because my idea wasn't what he would like to play, and moves on to another wall and starts imprinting his idea. 50 gamers visit both our walls and stay at the one they think is most enjoyable. You've now got 25 gamers on my wall, and 25 on the other. The fact that both mods are just concepts at this stage creates an ambiguous idea of which is better.

So right now, you're saying that, even though you haven't played *any* full conversion HL2 mods, you're saying their shit. And people shouldn't work on them. I think you're a god damn idiot.

 

[Dario D.]

So right now, you're saying that, even though you haven't played *any* full conversion HL2 mods, you're saying their shit. And people shouldn't work on them. I think you're a god damn idiot.

Sorry, was that aimed at me? I never said anything like that...

 

[pvtbones]

there is no such thing as a stupid mod, if your in the mod business purely to become the next "big thing" then (IMO) your in for all the wrong reasons, who really cares if the mod fails or not, yes it's a time wasted if the mod doesn't even make a release. but thats not the point. your taking your greatest dreams and wishes and making them take shape and that is something that cannot be measured.

Dairo D, why should we bother to get out of bed when we all know we're going to die? I mean all we're doing is wasting time till the end comes why not just be comfortable in our warm beds?

Angry Lawyer: I somewhat agree and disagree with you. while a coder would understand most little thing about the engine but does being a coder mean you can lead worth a damn? for example I knew the in's and out's of the refractor 2 engine (for battlefield 1942, not that it was very difficult) but I knew it's limits pretty well, I knew what couldn't be done and what could, and I knew how they had been done.

I am by no means a coder, but I listened to what they had said, for example zeuser of Desert Combat Extended (amazing coder is an understatement) he developed a working and non laggy homing missile code, how you ask?

first he gave the plane's colision meshes a special material number. second there was 3 long retangle plane meshes aligned in a triangle that rotated very quickly, when the cone was was on a plane and the plane say turned right, it would colide with the mesh pulling the mesh to the right so the missile would continue to follow the plane. it was quite possible to lose the missile as well, I myself did it a few times.

see? I know how it works but I'm by no means a coder (I only know VB and turing) and I couldn't code a con file to save my life.

just because your not a coder doesn't mean you can't know the engine


(hi first time poster long time lurker )

 

[Angry Lawyer]

I think I've overgeneralized. Replace all instances of "Coders SHOULD lead" to "Coders PROBABLY should lead", and "Your mod WILL fail" to "There's a SIGNIFICANT CHANCE that it might fail" or something.

There are varying degrees of modding skill. You make up for lack of coding by actually studying, asking questions, and talking to people. And you know some VB, so at least you know what coding is. I'm slightly riled by the number of mod leaders that say "Oh, can you go and make bullet time?? We also want 200 weapons, a duel wielding system, and the ability to globally connect servers to make one big game". It takes some know-how of the platform you're working with to produce feasible ideas.

My anger is more directed to the people who promote themselves as "Ideas guys", "PR guys", "Mod CEOs" and the like. They just pitch an idea, and expect people to make it for them. They usually know nothing about IP law (look in the Help Wanted section for thousands of mods based on copyrighted games and movies). I've seen it hundreds of times, while I prowl the mod boards of a number of new mods, where the lead does nothing but beg for a coder to join, and simply tell other people to work harder. They're in it for nothing but glory - it's the team leader that gets recognition when a mod is successful, not the mappers or the coders. And they're doomed to fail, unless they pick up a useful skill.

Oh, and Dario, I think you and I have different definitions of an 'Artist'. To me, an Artist in a mod is someone who draws pictures, and possibly models and makes textures. To you, it should like you're including mappers under the category. By association, that'd make Coding an art. Well, to be honest, it is.

But, no matter how good your idea is, no matter how many pages of documentation you produce, how many pretty concept drawings you produce, if you can't find people to actually build it, it's destined to fail. That is, unless you've got an extra practical skill, like coding, or mapping, in which you can still keep moving forward without other members.

Hmm...You could probably produce a checklist to see what mods are going to fail, for the mod team leaders to answer. You get one mark for each question answered "No".

1. Have you ever lead a mod team before?
2. Have you ever modded before?
3. Have you any coding skills?
4. Have you any mapping skills?
5. Is your English (or any other language, dependant on your audience) actually up to scratch, so people can read things and not think 'bwuh, he dropped out of school'.
6. Are you 17 or over?
7. Are you 16 or over?
8. Is your mod an original idea?
9. Does your mod actively seek to avoid infringing IP laws?
10. Do you know what IP laws are?
11. Do you know that the "fair use" clause doesn't protect you?
12. Do you have a coder on your team (possibly including you)?
13. Do you have a mapper on your team (possibly including you)?
14. Do you have a modeller?
15. A Skinner/2D artist?
16. Anyone else that has a useful skill?
17. Anyone else at all?

There are loads more, but you get the picture. If you score more than 3 points, you shouldn't lead a mod.

-Angry Lawyer

(Edit: Fixed a grammar mistake)

 

[Ti133700N]

Yea! I only got one mark! Stupid question 1.

 

[Garfield_]

Most people do it because its fun and learning. other do it to show "ohh man im best, i created a mod"

 

[Angry Lawyer]

And the people in the second group are the ones I hate, because they tend to have no skill at all.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[pvtbones]

I do it because I like trying out new concepts that professional devs wouldn't try and and I agree completely if your doing it for the fame you shouldn't do it at all.

 

[Lorka]

On Dario D's initial point - while it may be hard to pre-empt the quality of your mod, I think there's definately something to what you're saying. The level of innovation should be obvious from a single sentence synopsis of the game. Why then, do you get huge teams, reams of painfully constructed content/code and tons of effort all poured into projects selling themselves with "team based FPS set in Middle East", and "Halo 2 mod for PC in HL2" ? The mod community should be the envy of industry designers, pressurised innovation spewing from every orifice not sealed tight with sheet steel, as people create the games they wish they could play free of publisher box tickers. Why was it that Red Orchestra, another WW2 FPS won Make Something Unreal? It's beyond me.

 

[Ranga]

:thumbs: Dario D.

i'm not much for going against the flow... but I completely understand where you are coming from.

Even if embarking on that long and arduous (sp) post was a bit pointless.... *Dario D earns influence

 

[Flyingdebris]

i think i can safely say that "doomed mods" are the ones that all they ever release is some renders of some pistol, an m16, and an ak-47. These mods never seem to think past the CS mentality.

The sucessful mods are almost always the ones that go out and make something new and interesting. The ones that fail are almost always the attempted copycat ideas

you mod has to be good enough and fresh enough to make people put down the games they are playing and play yours. If all you have to show for your mod is some weapon renders, don't expect players to flock to your mod.

 

[Dario D.]

Thanks Ranga.

Why was it that Red Orchestra, another WW2 FPS won Make Something Unreal? It's beyond me.

(agreed with what you said)

I think I know exactly why (I even participated in the Make Something Unreal Contest and won some money for my map)... Red Orchestra won for two reasons that I can see: first of all, and the biggest reason, "All the other mods were just so uninteresting or uncaptivating".

Second of all, Red Orchestra tapped into a resevoir of detail and style uncommon in even retail-quality games.

Example: Battlefield 1942 is bare-bones simple, with maybe one advanced feature to deepen it: radio commands. You basically run around and blow up stuff, on foot or in vehicles, in as simple a fashion as possible.

Red Orchestra has a 70-page manual on tactics, and really gets into what it means to be in a war, and not just what it means to be playing a video game. Battlefield 1942 = video game. RO = detailed realism. All the other mods = who even cares? They're cartoons.

One way to think if your mod is on the right track is to think of your mindset for developing it. Is it right? Basically ask yourself what kind of mod you think you're making:

A: do you feel like you're making a Steven Spielberg film?
or
B: do you feel like you're "messing with some ideas"?

If it's "A" you could be on the right track. If it's "B", your mod will be liked, but not loved.

Of course even Steven Spielberg mods don't always make it. It all winds down to gameplay, and how far-reaching it's web of interest is.

There are two kinds of mods, and the first is mods that are based on "trying out stuff or toying with cartoony gameplay ideas".

Think of it this way, by relating to the way Steven Spielberg makes movies:
Steven Spielberg can take a dead-simple story and turn it into a great movie. Take the movie Saving Private Ryan. It doesn't really have a story; it's just a series of progressive events; yet he portrays the events in such a captivating, interesting way as few directors can, that you don't even care about what happens next; you care about what's happening NOW, and hope that the movie is very long. A lot of his movies are like that, I've noticed. You're absorbed in the moment, and rarely look ahead.

Mods have to be like that too. You have to be absorbed in the situation at hand, and not searching for something to do. The "right now" has to be really good. Just standing there has to feel solid. If the player is looking around for something to "do", or something to "play with", like the wierd weapons and vehicles in the oh-so-many cartoon-like UT2004 mods, then once the player has seen and done everything, the mod becomes dry and empty, and he leaves because there's nothing more to do.

Rather, if the game is based on solid gameplay with a far-reaching web of interest, the player should be thinking about the game at hand without any complaints or worries, completely addicted to living an alternate life within a complex web of interesting gameplay.

I've already encountered several HL2 mods that I think will be squeezed dry in minutes, because their web of interest is about 2 feet long.

When I think of a good mod, I think of Desert Combat for Battlefield 1942. Playing Desert Combat is like actually being out in some simplified war, with a VAST web of interest, simulating EVERY aspect of a realistic war (infantry, vehicles, airplanes, ships, submarines) and enough unique gameplay situations to keep you playing for a good couple of years.

That's how a mod should be.

I finally quit playing (after about a year) when the mod got too tiresome for me, and too evolved, with too many maps and too many vehicles, and it just became mentally burdensome to keep track of it all. I miss the simpler days.

So anyway, if you want to correct your mod, just think about what kind of mod it's trying to be. Is it trying to have a wide web of interest, and replayable, solid gameplay? Or flimsy weapon-play, without much reason to play it other than the fact that it's different.

Also consider: are there already games that are like your mod? Are you copying something? Even if indirectly, are you just making a copy-cat of existing gameplay? It's hard to be interesting that way... you'll just be buried under whatever you're copying, and people won't bother trying yours out.

So anyway, before I click "Submit", I'll just renew what I said before: Be smart, be thoughtful, use your eyes (not your excitement), be very realistic when you think about things, and you'll save yourself a TRUCKLOAD of pain, frustration, and wasted work.

If you're gonna sell your time, sell it to what you think is a GOOD mod. You'll be glad you did. :angel:

 

[Angry Lawyer]

I do it because I like trying out new concepts that professional devs wouldn't try and and I agree completely if your doing it for the fame you shouldn't do it at all.

No, there's nothing wrong with doing it for the glory. There's something wrong with doing it for the glory without actually having any skills.

For example, Mr. A. has coding, mapping, and some modelling skill, is creating a mod, and wants glory. Mr B, wants the glory, but has no applyable skills.

Mr. A is more likely to succeed, and I support him totally. Mr B usually hasn't left compulsorary education yet, and simply wants to recruit a team to do all the work for him whilst getting loads of interviews and glory.

I come under category A, by the way. Damn right I want glory, which is why I'm making my mod all on my own.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Dario D.]

From my experience and especially from my observation, Glory = blindness. It can make you think that your work is 10,000 times better than it is, and keep you embedded in something long after it has died.

For example - something I see regularly at the UT forums especially:

"HI I AM WANT TO MAKE A MOD ABOUT SOMETHING STUPID, SHOULD I DO IT AND DO YUO THINK ITS A GOOD IDEA. THANKS"

Replies from n00bs: Yes! It's a great idea! Fabulous! You're a genius! It's incredible! How did you think of that? Outstanding! Marvelous!

"THANK YOU I AM NOW SPEND THE NEXT 5 YEARS WASTING MY TIME BECAUSE IM JUST SO PUMPED"

Just a LITTLE bit of glory of any kind can make someone dedicate *everything* to that pursuit. Being interviewed repeatedly for making a mod for Pong can keep someone modding Pong for a very long time.

Glory is like a blazing fire that encircles you and stops you from seeing the truth. It comliments you, and enthrones you, and tells you how wonderful you are, and how supreme your work is - when in reality it's all in your head, and the truth can be very different than what you think and bathe your mind in.

I think it's better to fold up glory and put it in the closet, taking it very casually, and very "in stride", with barely a second thought. Rather than always whoring it at every opportunity, like an extravagent king's outfit, it's better it leave it in the closet just as a reminder for those times you lose hope and need to remember some reason to keep working.

The reason glory is so dangerous is because it's mental. Your work is *physical*, but glory is mental, and your mind will inflate your self-importance to outrageous proportions, and keep you addicted to the pursuit for probably your whole life.

Ever wonder why actors stay on camera years after their carreers are over, and end up ruining their image, and yet STILL keep themselves in the spotlight? Glory whores.

If you aren't convinced of thought's destructive power, just look at some old tapes of interviews with Frank Lloyd Wright, the famous architect: "I... am... immortal," said he with an extremely serious face, not even kidding. Sounds like someone was just a little larger than life.


...sorry to be saying all this. My pursuit to correct people continues. As long as I see people like Cliffy B, I will always know that glory is a drug. Addictive and sourly corrosive.