Would you vote Respect?

[Absinthe]

To be fair, murder and abuse are not part of communism itself. The Soviet bloc was governed by fascism more than anything. That said, it is still a flawed system in this day and age. Brilliantly devised, but not applicable as a whole.

Respect is just a reactionary party going against the grain (or "the Man" if you wish to call it that) without making any solid stands on its own that are worth giving two shits about. Hunting with dogs? That's not really clamoring for my attention.

 

[Solaris]

To be fair, murder and abuse are not part of communism itself. The Soviet bloc was governed by fascism more than anything. That said, it is still a flawed system in this day and age. Brilliantly devised, but not applicable as a whole.

Respect is just a reactionary party going against the grain (or "the Man" if you wish to call it that) without making any solid stands on its own that are worth giving two shits about. Hunting with dogs? That's not really clamoring for my attention.

What about?
- Return all waste management operations to solely public ownership
-Renationalisation of all public transport, including rail and bus networks and creation of a fully integrated national system to include cycling, light rail schemes and facilities for pedestrians.
-Respect will oppose any attempt to introduce compulsory identification cards and any other breach of an individual's right to privacy.-Defends the rights of asylum seekers and refugees to political asylum and will oppose any new government legislation and its effects which further undermines the right to political asylum
-Opposes the European Union's 'Fortress Europe' policies
-Supports all campaigns that defend the rights of asylum seekers and refugees.
-An end to the war and occupation in Iraq. We will not join any further imperialist wars.
-An education system that is not dependent on the ability to pay, that is comprehensive and gives an equal chance in life to every child no matter how wealthy or poor their parents, from nursery to university.
-Pensions that are linked to average earnings.
-Raising the minimum wage to the European Union Decency threshold of £7.40 an hour.
-Tax the rich to fund welfare and to close the growing gap between the poor and the wealthy few.
-The right to self-determination of every individual in relation to their religious (or non-religious) beliefs, as well as sexual choices.
-Support for the people of Palestine and opposition to the apartheid system that oppresses them.

 

[delusional]

show me how people are screwed over by capitalism, because i see no negative effects. also by your definition, respect is a state capitalist since it wants to subsidize nearly every industry. hell why are you using a computer, capitalism created it didnt it. how bout we just make everyone equal, equal compensation for everyone even though one person works his ass off and another slacks off. theres no incentive. what will happen when the rich leave or are taxed into poverty. how then do you fund welfare

 

[Ome_Vince]

The thing with communism and extremo socialism, is not the thought, but its effect.
It doesnt take human nature into effect.
Without a great reward, people dont do much.
People, like animals need something to motivate. Training a dog by spanking it doesnt work, training it by giving it cookies does.
Communist hospitals are so out-dated and dirty, you'd rather pray to get better, their public transport is so crummy you'd rather walk.
Nothing works, and nothing is on time because there is no motivation.
Humanity/society is not really a good motivation for an average individual...
I think reality more than proves it.
Even in socialist states. Right now we are on the edge, if it gets any worse (in Europe) more and more rich, talented, educated people will exit, and settle somewhere where they can earn more money, and dont have to pay +70% tax.
Companies will not be able to pay the insane taxes, and employee salaries, extra costs etc and also will exit.
The whole reason outsourcing is invented, is because otherwise its simply un-doable.

Also, in Holland for, lots of companies are now illegally hire Polish workers for breadcrumbs.
Ofcourse they'd rather hire dutch, but they cant afford it, the costs are sky-rocketing, the insurance and tax issues are beyond rediculous.
You cant ask a rich-guy, who worked all his life to get where he is now, to pay 70% of his salary, when he sees a growing rate of people sitting back hardly working at all, not to mention the state paying (with mostly his tax dollars) all kinds of wacko projects. As i mentioned before, they'll just leave, leaving the country in more depth, until eventually (like in Holland) central and right-wingers take over.

All in all, i'm not saying Socialism is bad, i love and support it, but up to a certain level. Anything beyong that is rediculous, and is destructive for society.

 

[el Chi]

show me how people are screwed over by capitalism, because i see no negative effects.

You're not serious?
How about the third world? I see many negative effects of corporate capitalist exploitation throughout the third world. I'd say that pretty much screwed over billions of people.

 

[The Monkey]

As I posted in another thread:

Communism doesn't work in theory or praxis, all it does it preventing technical development and economical evolution. In order to fully control the economy one must also control the people. Therefore, communism always leads to dictatorship. I do not hate communism, because I think the ideology in itself is not evil, but it has proved to be a failure, and should be treated as such. However, many people, not the least in my country, still call themselves communists, lacking education in both history and market economy. I wonder how many more people that have to die before communism is accepted by everyone for what it is: a catastrophe for democracy and the economy.

 

[15357]

My thoughts can be simplified into:

"Communism: Threat to Liberty"

and

"Communism, the opposite of Democracy. (It is, actually)"

 

[kirovman]

Well, I would say Fascism is the opposite of Democracy, seeing as Communism can handle limited democracy (you can choose your favourite commie for example!).

But that's just arguing semantics.

 

[gick]

Well, I would say Fascism is the opposite of Democracy, seeing as Communism can handle limited democracy (you can choose your favourite commie for example!).

But that's just arguing semantics.

If we're talking theoretically, communism is the most democratic system there is. You have political democracy down to the lowest levels, plus democratic control over the industrial system.

Kind of a moot point though, as it'll never work in the world as it is today.

 

[repiV]

Not me. But theres billions affected by it, negatively.

Solaris...

I've been reading your posts for a couple of months now. I'm going to give you some advice. And, due to your youth and immaturity, I'm going to ignore your outrageous support for the killing of British servicemen and women and their allies.
Had you ever considered that if you stopped whining about the "upper class" and "the rich" and actually put in some hard work, you might become rich yourself?
Had you ever considered that the majority of people are rich because they worked damn hard to get where they are? That they have devoted themselves to their business/work to an extent that you can only dream of? That they have gambled their entire life upon their business?
Now, many of us hard-working people take exception to your belief that everyone is entitled to the same amount no matter what we do, and that the rich are the enemy of society. Perhaps you'll understand when you have to start paying taxes for yourself.
Why should the rich be taxed to support welfare? Why should people be punished for their success? Because you're too lazy or smug to achieve a mere percentage of what they have?
I probably won't be staying in this country for too much longer. It's polluted with a "we want it all but we don't want to work for it" mentality, reverse snobbery and multiculturalism. You're welcome to it...but you might find the sad reality becomes that there is noone left to create jobs and wealth and you're living in a dump with no opportunities and no hope. 'cos all those rich and successful people you hate so much who are responsible for providing you with opportunities all packed up and left for somewhere that rewards them for their hard work.
Ok, that didn't really turn out to be advice. But my point is made.

 

[kirovman]

Well, you've got to admit that he mushroom-stamped you, Solaris.

 

[repiV]

Well, you've got to admit that he mushroom-stamped you, Solaris.

It's a tough job, but someone's gotta do it.

 

[Hectic Glenn]

It's a tough job, but someone's gotta do it.

Ohhhh i see, you meant talking to Solaris in this respect, i thought you were supportive and you worried me initially. You have my vote of confidence now.

 

[repiV]

Oh, hell no. I've been itching to put him in his place for weeks. :E
It's probably just a phase though. I'm sure he'll grow out of it.

 

[Tr0n]

So you've become obsessed with him? D:

God damn stalker!

 

[repiV]

You see, the thing about that is....nice avatar! Looks good on you. :thumbs:

 

[delusional]

theres a reason communism was supposed to be worlwide, so the rich cant escape

 

[Fat Tony!]

Okay fair enough, I don't really like capitalism too much either. It is built upon social inequalities and exploitation. But it's the system which works best at the moment.

Communism doesn't work since people seek power and tend to abuse it when they get it.

 

[JNightshade]

Boo communism. Yay...

actually, boo everything. :<

 

[Solaris]

Ay? I'll anti-mushroomrape him when I get back from school.
And the only true democracy is a socialist one.

 

[Black_Wolf]

.......says the kid on the Internet ^^

 

[Solaris]

.......says the kid on the Internet ^^

?

 

[Black_Wolf]

"And the only true democracy is a socialist one."

 

[delusional]

the only true democracy is a direct one.
socialism took hold in america during the great depression, so before that it wasnt a democracy?

 

[Solaris]

the only true democracy is a direct one.
socialism took hold in america during the great depression, so before that it wasnt a democracy?

Still isn't.
Look at 2000 election.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

And so the fatal flaws of the current democracy are revealed - the majority of voters don't know what's the best action. Also, propaganda and advertisement affect decisions, as well as the "vote for the lesser evil" mindset. To step democracy forward, you really need some way in which the average joe doesn't know the forecast of the elections (eliminating voting for someone just to stop someone else) and in which party propaganda can't reach them - just cold, hard, facts that they can vote on, which would pick the people to go into the parliament.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[kirovman]

Or just install a technocracy, like Wen Jiabao did. D:

 

[Angry Lawyer]

-Angry Lawyer

 

[delusional]

what about the 2000 election? you didnt answer me solaris if the country was democratic before the great depression.

 

[Solaris]

Solaris...

repiV...

I've been reading your posts for a couple of months now.

I hope you enjoyed them

I'm going to give you some advice.

Why thank you, I love to learn new things.

And, due to your youth and immaturity,

I wouldn't agree with that, sure I've got some youthful spirit, but who didn't. Politically however I'm very certain in what I belive, I've done alot of thinking on my beliefs and am willing to change them at any time.

I'm going to ignore your outrageous support for the killing of British servicemen and women and their allies.

I do not support the killing of our servicemen. I support the people who wish to liberate their country from an occupying force. The fact that British deaths is a by-product of this, makes it all the more tragic, and the responcability for these deaths lies with our leaders. I do not blame the resistance.

Had you ever considered that if you stopped whining about the "upper class" and "the rich" and actually put in some hard work, you might become rich yourself?

I'm quite certain I will join the middle classes, and make a fair bit more money than your average joe, however, I am gifted by being brought up in a househould of parents with PHD's and other qualifications, who are quite intelectual, and make more than an average wage. This is, imo I majour factor as to why I will do well. I have freinds however who are less fourtunate, I am going to a grammar school sixth form, it costs my parents 10pounds a day to send me there (food and bus is v. expensive). I know alot of people who's parents could not afford that, and thus must settle with a sixth form/college, that gets worse results, and are arguably, not great places to go if you want to get A's. The same applies to secoundary school, and even home life. Being brought up in a middle class familly gives me an advantage other people do not get, and makes it harder to do as well as me.

Had you ever considered that the majority of people are rich because they worked damn hard to get where they are?

Have these people worked harder than my freinds dad who works 8 hour days in a factory for a below average wage. This guys a really decent guy, he's not all that clever, but does the best he can to make an honest wage. He works 10x harder than the people who inherit their fortunes or a buissness, or who just run a buissiness. Not everybody get the upbringing and genetics to allow them to make alot of money.

That they have devoted themselves to their business/work to an extent that you can only dream of? That they have gambled their entire life upon their business?

There are alot of poorer people who work alot harder for alot less. And I propose that no-one should have to gamble their life to make a living.

Now, many of us hard-working people take exception to your belief that everyone is entitled to the same amount no matter what we do, and that the rich are the enemy of society. Perhaps you'll understand when you have to start paying taxes for yourself.

I do pay taxes on money I earn. And, I want 100% tax. The complete abolishment of money.

Why should the rich be taxed to support welfare? Why should people be punished for their success? Because you're too lazy or smug to achieve a mere percentage of what they have?

Now this pisses me off. Your calling 17% of britons who live under the poverty line lazy? The working class are not lazy, they work damn harder than you ever will, and probably for alot less. Calling the people who without the upper classes couldn't make a penny lazy, is outragous.

I probably won't be staying in this country for too much longer. It's polluted with a "we want it all but we don't want to work for it" mentality

Then Gtfo. People work very hard for very little, your a god damn snob if you don't think these people are hard working.

, reverse snobbery and multiculturalism.

I like multiculturism, it's a fantastic thing.

You're welcome to it...but you might find the sad reality becomes that there is noone left to create jobs and wealth and you're living in a dump with no opportunities and no hope.

You're basing this on what? I want completely open, international immigration, to and from all countries.

'cos all those rich and successful people you hate so much who are responsible for providing you with opportunities all packed up and left for somewhere that rewards them for their hard work.

They can GTFO, it is not the upper class who make anything. My chairs, food, computer, education, house... it all came from working class people.

Ok, that didn't really turn out to be advice. But my point is made.

Badly


Cummon Angry Lawyer, your from a working class background, how can you not be offended at him calling working class people lazy.

 

[repiV]

repiV...

I hope you enjoyed them

Why thank you, I love to learn new things.


I wouldn't agree with that, sure I've got some youthful spirit, but who didn't. Politically however I'm very certain in what I belive, I've done alot of thinking on my beliefs and am willing to change them at any time.

You are also clueless. You have no conception of the real world, or real life. You have a smug sense of entitlement when you have actually done nothing to deserve anything in this world. You exist off the charity of others and expect to have everything they have.
An indication of your cluelessness is that you actually think a minimum wage of £7.40 is an admirable thing. Do you have any idea how much that would destroy the economy and our competitiveness in the world? How much unemployment would skyrocket?
Menial workers aren't worth £7.40 an hour, and that's why they are not paid as such. Most of them would be without a job at all if they had to be paid £7.40 an hour. The cost of employing temporary workers would skyrocket even more dramatically, which would exacerbate the problem further. Congratulations, now your working class buddies can live their life on welfare.

I do not support the killing of our servicemen. I support the people who wish to liberate their country from an occupying force. The fact that British deaths is a by-product of this, makes it all the more tragic, and the responcability for these deaths lies with our leaders. I do not blame the resistance.

Nice dodge.

I'm quite certain I will join the middle classes, and make a fair bit more money than your average joe, however, I am gifted by being brought up in a househould of parents with PHD's and other qualifications, who are quite intelectual, and make more than an average wage. This is, imo I majour factor as to why I will do well. I have freinds however who are less fourtunate, I am going to a grammar school sixth form, it costs my parents 10pounds a day to send me there (food and bus is v. expensive). I know alot of people who's parents could not afford that, and thus must settle with a sixth form/college, that gets worse results, and are arguably, not great places to go if you want to get A's. The same applies to secoundary school, and even home life. Being brought up in a middle class familly gives me an advantage other people do not get, and makes it harder to do as well as me.

My parents have been unemployed for most of my life, and I grew up in poverty. I missed years of school due to disability and only got two GCSEs. So ****ing what? I went on to get three good A-levels and I'm just beginning a career in recruitment (that's 10-12 hours a day of high-pressure, high-responsibility work to you) with a view to starting my own company in a few years.
The sixth form college isn't responsible for your results, you are. Losers always find someone else to blame for their failures.

Have these people worked harder than my freinds dad who works 8 hour days in a factory for a below average wage. This guys a really decent guy, he's not all that clever, but does the best he can to make an honest wage. He works 10x harder than the people who inherit their fortunes or a buissness, or who just run a buissiness. Not everybody get the upbringing and genetics to allow them to make alot of money.

Wow, you really are clueless. You consider 8 hours a day to be a long time? You think working in a factory is the epitomy of toughness? Do you have any idea what it takes to run your own business? Any conception at all? You have to sacrifice your entire life for it. You work around the clock. No, he does not work 10x harder than people who run their own businesses, CEOs and senior executives. He doesn't come anywhere close.

There are alot of poorer people who work alot harder for alot less. And I propose that no-one should have to gamble their life to make a living.I do pay taxes on money I earn.

Nobody "has" to gamble their life to make a living. Without having ever worked a day in your life (your McJob doesn't count), how would you know that there are a lot of poorer people that work a lot harder for a lot less?
You have absolutely no conception of what it takes to run a business, and also the fact that failure may result in bankruptcy and ruin.

And, I want 100% tax. The complete abolishment of money.

Yeah...that makes sense... :upstare:

Now this pisses me off. Your calling 17% of britons who live under the poverty line lazy? The working class are not lazy, they work damn harder than you ever will, and probably for alot less. Calling the people who without the upper classes couldn't make a penny lazy, is outragous.

I'm calling YOU lazy, arrogant and deluded. You expect the same as everyone else has without having to work for it. The world doesn't revolve around you, or your hippie commie buddies.

Then Gtfo. People work very hard for very little, your a god damn snob if you don't think these people are hard working.

I'm not in the business of making generalisations about "these people". I'll leave that to you - it's your forté.

I like multiculturism, it's a fantastic thing.

Segregation and lack of any cultural mores - the very thing that binds any working society together - is a fantastic thing? You live in Lancashire, you don't have to live with the effects of this "multiculturalism". You just sit in your little hidey hole with no grasp of reality and say "yeah it's cool". Like the idiotic politicans you worship. Come live in Wembley for a while.

You're basing this on what? I want completely open, international immigration, to and from all countries.

People with skills will go where those skills are most well rewarded. Why do you think hundreds of thousands of Polish workers are coming into the country? And, why do you think, even though we act as the world's dumping ground, emigration exceeds immigration? That's right...there is no reason for anyone with any ambition or intelligence to remain in this country anymore.
So you'll have a country full of your precious working class, who can't get a job because there are no jobs to get.

They can GTFO, it is not the upper class who make anything. My chairs, food, computer, education, house... it all came from working class people.

Who do you think designs these things and allows for their production and distribution, manages the infrastructure that allows for their very existence, markets and sells them? Santa Claus? Your friend Stalin?

Badly

Cummon Angry Lawyer, your from a working class background, how can you not be offended at him calling working class people lazy.

You are in desperate need of a reality check. You're 16...I don't expect you to understand the world. But at least lose the arrogant, snot-nosed, know-it-all attitude.

 

[15357]

I don't give a shit about socialism as long as it's far, far away from me.

DEMOCRACY FOREVER!

*hugs National Security Law*




Perhaps that technocracy idea could work...

 

[CptStern]

I don't give a shit about socialism as long as it's far, far away from me.

DEMOCRACY FOREVER!

*hugs National Security Law*

..democracy? in SK?

LOOK, A COMMIE!!! CALL THE AUTHORITIES!!!

 

[Solaris]

You are also clueless. You have no conception of the real world, or real life. You have a smug sense of entitlement when you have actually done nothing to deserve anything in this world. You exist off the charity of others and expect to have everything they have.

Don't tell me what I expect, I'm 16 ffs theres very little I can contribute, and I still have the right to a political opinion regardless. My age is not really relevant so let it go.

An indication of your cluelessness is that you actually think a minimum wage of £7.40 is an admirable thing.

I'd like to see it much higher, well, one wage that everyone gets which is alot higher.

Do you have any idea how much that would destroy the economy and our competitiveness in the world? How much unemployment would skyrocket?

No-one should have to work for so little money, I'dd like to see an international minimum wage at the very least.

Menial workers aren't worth £7.40 an hour, and that's why they are not paid as such.

Hell, when they get together and relise their power, they will be worth however much they think they are worth. Do not preach to me about the worthyness of a Human Being. All human beings are worthy, and entiltled to a wage and a standard of living much highers than 7.50 can provide.

Most of them would be without a job at all if they had to be paid £7.40 an hour.

Not under international socialism.

The cost of employing temporary workers would skyrocket even more dramatically, which would exacerbate the problem further. Congratulations, now your working class buddies can live their life on welfare.

Again, I don't want socialist ideals under capitlalism. I want full blown socialism.

Nice dodge.

How is that a dodge? I clarified my position, of what part dor you disagree with it.

My parents have been unemployed for most of my life, and I grew up in poverty. I missed years of school due to disability and only got two GCSEs. So ****ing what? I went on to get three good A-levels and I'm just beginning a career in recruitment (that's 10-12 hours a day of high-pressure, high-responsibility work to you) with a view to starting my own company in a few years.

Great. If everyone did that whom would work in the factories?

The sixth form college isn't responsible for your results, you are. Losers always find someone else to blame for their failures.

Sure, having a teacher who doesn't know what they're doing and doesn't really give a shit doesn't make the slightest impact does it?

Wow, you really are clueless. You consider 8 hours a day to be a long time? You think working in a factory is the epitomy of toughness? Do you have any idea what it takes to run your own business? Any conception at all? You have to sacrifice your entire life for it. You work around the clock. No, he does not work 10x harder than people who run their own businesses, CEOs and senior executives. He doesn't come anywhere close.

Please, working class people die alot younger than the rich, they have a harder life, don't get luxuries and have a boring job. No-one should have to work an 8hour day in a mindnumbing factory or similar job for such small money.

Nobody "has" to gamble their life to make a living.

You just said they did "peopel gamble there entire lives". I meant in the same context as they did.

Without having ever worked a day in your life (your McJob doesn't count), how would you know that there are a lot of poorer people that work a lot harder for a lot less?

Working in a factory is boring, people who work in a factory have told me so, and they don't make much money. Sure it's less intensive than it was 50 years ago, but thanks to socialist ideals, its less so.

You have absolutely no conception of what it takes to run a business, and also the fact that failure may result in bankruptcy and ruin.

Please, I understand the basics of running a buissness. You're in no position to tell me what I do and don't know.

Yeah...that makes sense... :upstare:

What an excellant counter argument, I must remeber than for my critical thinking lessons.

I'm calling YOU lazy, arrogant and deluded. You expect the same as everyone else has without having to work for it. The world doesn't revolve around you, or your hippie commie buddies.

What? Where did I say I am not prepared to work? I'm prepared to work damn hard to get a system where people may work as less as possible to have as good a life as possible.

I'm not in the business of making generalisations about "these people". I'll leave that to you - it's your forté.

Your entire argument is full of such things.

Segregation and lack of any cultural mores - the very thing that binds any working society together - is a fantastic thing? You live in Lancashire, you don't have to live with the effects of this "multiculturalism". You just sit in your little hidey hole with no grasp of reality and say "yeah it's cool". Like the idiotic politicans you worship. Come live in Wembley for a while.

Your sounding like a godamn racist. Oh and I don't know the negative effects of racism? Ye, I didn't live through the Burnley race riots and the aftermath that was national news for weeks.

People with skills will go where those skills are most well rewarded. Why do you think hundreds of thousands of Polish workers are coming into the country? And, why do you think, even though we act as the world's dumping ground, emigration exceeds immigration? That's right...there is no reason for anyone with any ambition or intelligence to remain in this country anymore.

Great. I'm not defending this country at all.

So you'll have a country full of your precious working class, who can't get a job because there are no jobs to get.

The state will provide them?
Do you understand socialism in the slightest?

Who do you think designs these things and allows for their production and distribution, manages the infrastructure that allows for their very existence, markets and sells them? Santa Claus? Your friend Stalin?

Cheap. Stalin is not my freind. Boss'es do do that, but tehy deserver no more than the people who made it.

[qute]You are in desperate need of a reality check. You're 16...I don't expect you to understand the world. But at least lose the arrogant, snot-nosed, know-it-all attitude.[/quote]Again, the ****ign age card, it's pathetic really to keep bringing that out.

 

[15357]

..democracy? in SK?

LOOK, A COMMIE!!! CALL THE AUTHORITIES!!!

ENEMY OF SOCIETY! CALL THE KANSPC!


l

 

[repiV]

Don't tell me what I expect, I'm 16 ffs theres very little I can contribute, and I still have the right to a political opinion regardless. My age is not really relevant so let it go.

Your political opinion is that you and all the chavs and everybody else deserve exactly the same amount as the entrepreneurs, doctors, teachers, soldiers, businessmen, CEOs out there, no matter what they contribute. What you expect is implicit in your political opinion.

I'd like to see it much higher, well, one wage that everyone gets which is alot higher.No-one should have to work for so little money, I'dd like to see an international minimum wage at the very least.

I did temp jobs for months at £6 and £7, occasionally £8 an hour. I certainly didn't deserve more than that for the simple work that I did. As I already said but you conviniently ignore, as you ignore reality, it is not remotely practical to set a minimum wage at £7.40 an hour. Nor is it justified. There aren't jobs for people to go to simply because someone felt like giving somebody a job. People work to create profit for the business. If they are not profitable, there is no point in employing them.
It costs my company about £10,000 a month to employ me. If I don't recoup those costs for them, I'm out the door. It's that simple. You live in a fantasyland.

Hell, when they get together and relise their power, they will be worth however much they think they are worth.

Their power to make a better life for themselves? Yeah, maybe they will.

Do not preach to me about the worthyness of a Human Being. All human beings are worthy, and entiltled to a wage and a standard of living much highers than 7.50 can provide.

Nobody is "entitled" to anything. You have to earn it.

Not under international socialism.
Again, I don't want socialist ideals under capitlalism. I want full blown socialism.

Good luck.

How is that a dodge? I clarified my position, of what part dor you disagree with it.

Nevermind.

Great. If everyone did that whom would work in the factories?Sure, having a teacher who doesn't know what they're doing and doesn't really give a shit doesn't make the slightest impact does it?

If everyone worked in the factories, who would work in the offices?
Society needs people to do boring, mundane jobs. Some people are not capable of doing anything else. These people do not add enough value to their organisation to warrant high pay packets. That's just life. You might not like it, but that's how it is.

Please, working class people die alot younger than the rich, they have a harder life, don't get luxuries and have a boring job. No-one should have to work an 8hour day in a mindnumbing factory or similar job for such small money.

Why not?
Also, nothing prevents the working class from becoming rich.

You just said they did "peopel gamble there entire lives". I meant in the same context as they did.

Working in a factory is boring, people who work in a factory have told me so, and they don't make much money. Sure it's less intensive than it was 50 years ago, but thanks to socialist ideals, its less so.

So what? This is my problem how, exactly? Why should I care?

Please, I understand the basics of running a buissness. You're in no position to tell me what I do and don't know.

You clearly don't, as you think working in a factory is "ten times harder". If running a business was so easy, everyone would be doing it.

What an excellant counter argument, I must remeber than for my critical thinking lessons.
What? Where did I say I am not prepared to work? I'm prepared to work damn hard to get a system where people may work as less as possible to have as good a life as possible.

Civilisations succeed and fail based on the hard work of their people. You don't get something for nothing.

Your entire argument is full of such things.

No, it isn't.

Your sounding like a godamn racist. Oh and I don't know the negative effects of racism? Ye, I didn't live through the Burnley race riots and the aftermath that was national news for weeks.

Yeah, of course, I'm a racist for thinking that British culture has more of a place in Britain than foreign cultures. I said the negative effects of multiculturalism, not the effects of racism. You would have to be supremely arrogant to go to another country and enforce your cultural values on them. Likewise, only a fool would allow people from other cultures to come here and demand Sharia law in their community. You don't like British culture? Don't come to Britain.

Great. I'm not defending this country at all.
The state will provide them?

So you want to live in a country where everyone lives off welfare payments, distributed with money that doesn't exist because there is no wealth in the country?

Do you understand socialism in the slightest?

The more pertinent question is, do you understand reality in the slightest?

Cheap. Stalin is not my freind. Boss'es do do that, but tehy deserver no more than the people who made it.

Why the hell would anyone be driven to excel, run a business, be the boss, to achieve great things, if they are not rewarded for it? Progress is driven by capitalism.

Again, the ****ign age card, it's pathetic really to keep bringing that out.

Nope, it's just true. With every post you make, you declare your age to the world. You will grow out of this phase, one day. I guarantee it.
The ironic thing is, if you had your wish, and we had international socialism and everyone was paid the same amount, the working class of this country would be worse off anyway. EVERYONE would be living in poverty, and that poverty would be far worse than what we consider "poverty" to be. EVERYONE's life would be miserable. But don't let reality get in the way of a good fantasy, eh?

 

[Mr Stabby]

I would rather vote for a dead parrot then the RESPECT party.

Remember kids, political extremes don't work.

 

[Solaris]

Your political opinion is that you and all the chavs and everybody else deserve exactly the same amount as the entrepreneurs, doctors, teachers, soldiers, businessmen, CEOs out there, no matter what they contribute. What you expect is implicit in your political opinion.

See. you putting words into my mouth. No socialist would argue that people should get the benifits of society if they do not work for it. Our core belief is "From each according to ability, to each according to need". This means, we ask that people contribute to the best of their ability, clever people should do clever jobs ect. And people will be given depending on their need, a woman with 3 kids would be given more food entiltilment than a single student.

I did temp jobs for months at £6 and £7, occasionally £8 an hour. I certainly didn't deserve more than that for the simple work that I did.

Perphaps not, but you might have a familly and kids that need supporting.

As I already said but you conviniently ignore, as you ignore reality, it is not remotely practical to set a minimum wage at £7.40 an hour. Nor is it justified.

What if you had a familly?

There aren't jobs for people to go to simply because someone felt like giving somebody a job. People work to create profit for the business. If they are not profitable, there is no point in employing them.

Private enterprise would be none existant, the state would run all buissness, it wouldn't 'outsource' labour.

It costs my company about £10,000 a month to employ me. If I don't recoup those costs for them, I'm out the door. It's that simple. You live in a fantasyland.

Your applying my desires to a caplitalist international enviroment. Under complete international socialism there would be no private enterprise.

Nobody is "entitled" to anything. You have to earn.. it.

You think someone whos working fulltime is entitled to enough money to support their familly?

If everyone worked in the factories, who would work in the offices?
Society needs people to do boring, mundane jobs. Some people are not capable of doing anything else. These people do not add enough value to their organisation to warrant high pay packets. That's just life. You might not like it, but that's how it is.

Half of people employed produce nothing. Under socialism we could all work significantly less and make the same amount of things.

Why not?
Also, nothing prevents the working class from becoming rich.

Who would work for them? If all the workers were rich?

So what? This is my problem how, exactly? Why should I care?

Becuase you are a member of mankind, and the welfare of man is your buissness and duty to protect.

You clearly don't, as you think working in a factory is "ten times harder". If running a business was so easy, everyone would be doing it.

It's more strennuous on the body.

Civilisations succeed and fail based on the hard work of their people. You don't get something for nothing.

I don't contest that.

Yeah, of course, I'm a racist for thinking that British culture has more of a place in Britain than foreign cultures.

Boderline.

I said the negative effects of multiculturalism, not the effects of racism. You would have to be supremely arrogant to go to another country and enforce your cultural values on them. Likewise, only a fool would allow people from other cultures to come here and demand Sharia law in their community. You don't like British culture? Don't come to Britain.

You have no more right to be here than anyone else does, neither

So you want to live in a country where everyone lives off welfare payments, distributed with money that doesn't exist because there is no wealth in the country?

Yes.

The more pertinent question is, do you understand reality in the slightest?

Yes.

Why the hell would anyone be driven to excel, run a business, be the boss, to achieve great things, if they are not rewarded for it? Progress is driven by capitalism.

Incentive such as being able to retire early could be given.

Nope, it's just true. With every post you make, you declare your age to the world. You will grow out of this phase, one day. I guarantee it.
The ironic thing is, if you had your wish, and we had international socialism and everyone was paid the same amount, the working class of this country would be worse off anyway. EVERYONE would be living in poverty, and that poverty would be far worse than what we consider "poverty" to be. EVERYONE's life would be miserable. But don't let reality get in the way of a good fantasy, eh?

I'd like to see you read some marxist material with an open mind, and then argue, understanding what this 'socialist' thing is you are debating.

 

[Nemesis6]

As Churchill said -

The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.

And one quote sticks in my mind, and it goes a little something like this - In communism, the people are loved and the individual is frowned upon.

 

[delusional]

why do you seemingly ignore what happened in the USSR solaris. would you want to live in soviet russia? and dont tell me its state capitalist because you yourself said you wanted the government to subsidize business.