Would you vote Respect?

[CptStern]

Perhaps, but what percentage of the entire nation gets cancer? 0.09%?

ummmm no

A person has a lifetime risk of two in five of developing cancer, meaning that for every five people in the population, two eventually will develop cancer. The lifetime risk of dying of cancer in one in five.

http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH/WSIHW000/8096/8767.html

 

[repiV]

Here's the problem Numbers, that way, the only people who can afford decent health are the rich. You fall ill with cancer in the USA without insurance, you're pretty ****ed. At the best your not going to get half the treatment you'd get in the UK, becuase over here we all put our money together and create a health system where anyone, no matter how rich or poor can go to a hospital and get some treatment, that if that service wouldn't get, they would die. That's what it's effectively coming down too, by denying a society free health care you are condeming them and their children to death when others could be treated becuase they have the money.

Life is a human right, and no law abiding citizen has anymore of a right to it than anyone else.

Since when do you have to be rich to afford health insurance?
Also, if you fell ill with cancer without insurance, the likelihood is you would get better treatment than you do here and you would get it very quickly. You would just be in debt for the rest of your life.

 

[CptStern]

44 million americans are without proper healthcare ..oh and depending on the hospital stay your great grand children may still be paying it off

my son was born 3 months premature ..were I uninsured in the US my bill would have to come $300,000 + for his 7 week stay at the hospital

cancer is long term treatment: much much more expensive

 

[repiV]

44 million americans are without proper healthcare ..oh and depending on the hospital stay your great grand children may still be paying it off

my son was born 3 months premature ..were I uninsured in the US my bill would have to come $300,000 + for his 7 week stay at the hospital

cancer is long term treatment: much much more expensive

I'm not defending fully privatised healthcare here - but it does have its advantages, and I do prefer it when people make informed decisions rather than the misguided and incorrect blathering that Solaris resorts to.
The quality of the healthcare in the USA is far better than the UK, there is absolutely no question about it. And you don't have to be rich to afford health insurance. The NHS is falling apart and people die from staying on the waiting lists for too long - but hey, all in the name of the socialist cause, right?

 

[CptStern]

only because you have private clinics ..doesnt mean that everyone will have access to it

your insurance company dictates which doctors specialists you see ..unless you're paying heavy premiums there's no way they'd foot the bill for a private clinic

 

[repiV]

only because you have private clinics ..doesnt mean that everyone will have access to it

your insurance company dictates which doctors specialists you see ..unless you're paying heavy premiums there's no way they'd foot the bill for a private clinic

I thought all civilian hospitals were private businesses in the US?

 

[CptStern]

no, many are run by the state or federal levels; it's the doctors themselves and the services that are privatized

private clinincs are just that: private

 

[repiV]

no, many are run by the state or federal levels; it's the doctors themselves and the services that are privatized

private clinincs are just that: private

Ah, I see. Even so, it's a pretty bold claim that the quality of the healthcare in the UK is superior.
It may well be in Canada - but we're not in Canada. In the US, you would never have life-saving treatment withheld - as is often the case here.
I have to wait a year at a time for a 15 minute appointment with my neurologist - and I'm very fortunate to get to see a neurologist. Most get their condition managed by the GP.

 

[Solaris]

Ah, I see. Even so, it's a pretty bold claim that the quality of the healthcare in the UK is superior.
It may well be in Canada - but we're not in Canada. In the US, you would never have life-saving treatment withheld - as is often the case here.
I have to wait a year at a time for a 15 minute appointment with my neurologist - and I'm very fortunate to get to see a neurologist. Most get their condition managed by the GP.

You've read a daily mail too many.
The NHS does have it's share of problems, but it still pretty damn good imo.

 

[repiV]

You've read a daily mail too many.
The NHS does have it's share of problems, but it still pretty damn good imo.

Don't insult my intelligence by accusing me of reading that rag just because I say something you don't like.

 

[Solaris]

Don't insult my intelligence by accusing me of reading that rag just because I say something you don't like.

In the US, you would never have life-saving treatment withheld - as is often the case here.

Cummon, it's got its problems, some areas are over funded. But for the most part you go in and come out better, and your wallets none the lighter.

 

[CptStern]

Ah, I see. Even so, it's a pretty bold claim that the quality of the healthcare in the UK is superior.

I never said that

It may well be in Canada - but we're not in Canada. In the US, you would never have life-saving treatment withheld - as is often the case here.
I have to wait a year at a time for a 15 minute appointment with my neurologist - and I'm very fortunate to get to see a neurologist. Most get their condition managed by the GP.

I dont know how it is in the UK but I highly doubt they'd withhold life saving treatment ..I mean you're still here arent you? In canada healthcare has taken a beating over the last 30 odd years ..sure wait times are extremely long for some things but when you really need them they come through ..when my wife was about to deliver (we rushed in at the last minute) there were 7 nurses/specialists/doctors in the room at the same time ..when my dad nearly died the doctor who operated on him was chief surgeon of one of canada's best known hospitals ..when I consulted on my wife's last pregnancy we met with chief of pedriatics, he gave us his home phone number to call in case we had any questions ...I think you guys need to go through the ringer to really appreciate our healthcare system

 

[repiV]

Cummon, it's got its problems, some areas are over funded. But for the most part you go in and come out better, and your wallets none the lighter.

Under-funded, you mean...?
Yes, the NHS has been good to me over the years. But my local hospital IS Northwick Park and I'm in London where all the best care is. I have to wait a damn long time for an appointment, nonetheless, and I am one of the lucky ones. The only specialist epilepsy hospital in the country (which I stayed at for a month or so) only holds 24 people at a time. I had to wait three years to go there.

 

[Solaris]

Under-funded, you mean...?
Yes, the NHS has been good to me over the years. But my local hospital IS Northwick Park and I'm in London where all the best care is. I have to wait a damn long time for an appointment, nonetheless, and I am one of the lucky ones. The only specialist epilepsy hospital in the country (which I stayed at for a month or so) only holds 24 people at a time. I had to wait three years to go there.

You said earlier you came from quite a poor background (sorry if that was someone else I'm thinking of). You think you could afford the treatment if it was private?

 

[repiV]

I never said that

Oh, I know. Solaris did. Sorry if you misread.

I dont know how it is in the UK but I highly doubt they'd withhold life saving treatment ..I mean you're still here arent you? In canada healthcare has taken a beating over the last 30 odd years ..sure wait times are extremely long for some things but when you really need them they come through ..when my wife was about to deliver (we rushed in at the last minute) there were 7 nurses/specialists/doctors in the room at the same time ..when my dad nearly died the doctor who operated on him was chief surgeon of one of canada's best known hospitals ..when I consulted on my wife's last pregnancy we met with chief of pedriatics, he gave us his home phone number to call in case we had any questions ...I think you guys need to go through the ringer to really appreciate our healthcare system

I believe Canada's healthcare system is known for being a lot better than ours. In any case, there are times when patients are just left to die because there are simply not the resources to save them. It's not unheard of for people to be laying on trollies in corridors for days at a time - or to have to wait over a year for life-saving treatment.

 

[Solaris]

Oh, I know. Solaris did. Sorry if you misread.



I believe Canada's healthcare system is known for being a lot better than ours. In any case, there are times when patients are just left to die because there are simply not the resources to save them. It's not unheard of for people to be laying on trollies in corridors for days at a time - or to have to wait over a year for life-saving treatment.

It's still quite rare. Most of my familly have been in hospital one time or another, we've all got top class service. And how would making you pay tens of thousands of pounds make it any better?

 

[repiV]

You said earlier you came from quite a poor background (sorry if that was someone else I'm thinking of). You think you could afford the treatment if it was private?

Like I said - I'm not defending privatised healthcare. However, your assumption that the actual quality and speed of the care is better here - and that in the US they would just leave you to die if you can't front the cash - is wrong.
More important than what you believe is why you believe it.

 

[Solaris]

Like I said - I'm not defending privatised healthcare. However, your assumption that the actual quality and speed of the care is better here - and that in the US they would just leave you to die if you can't front the cash - is wrong.
More important than what you believe is why you believe it.

The US system is only better if you can afford it. A large amount of people can't.

 

[repiV]

It's still quite rare. Most of my familly have been in hospital one time or another, we've all got top class service. And how would making you pay tens of thousands of pounds make it any better?

I hate those third world exchange nurses. I've been at the mercy of their excruciatingly painful blood tests many a time. Yeeouch! Joking aside...
It's supply and demand. The costs you pay cover the treatment and more. When you're working with a socialised system, you have to fit your service within the confines of the budget (not to mention that much of that budget is tied up in bureaucracy and politics). If it's privatised, the opposite applies. Therefore, seeing as there is always more than enough money to cover the service, these problems are far less likely to occur - and the spending is also more efficient because of the lack of government bureaucracy.

 

[repiV]

The US system is only better if you can afford it. A large amount of people can't.

In most of those 44 million cases, they probably just chose not to get health insurance.
When I was looking at going to uni in the US (too expensive...), health insurance was mandatory. You weren't allowed to attend without proof of insurance. If students can afford it, so can most of those 44 million.

 

[Solaris]

I hate those third world exchange nurses. I've been at the mercy of their excruciatingly painful blood tests many a time. Yeeouch! Joking aside...
It's supply and demand. The costs you pay cover the treatment and more. When you're working with a socialised system, you have to fit your service within the confines of the budget (not to mention that much of that budget is tied up in bureaucracy and politics). If it's privatised, the opposite applies. Therefore, seeing as there is always more than enough money to cover the service, these problems are far less likely to occur - and the spending is also more efficient because of the lack of government bureaucracy.

Tell you what. You Pioneer this idea by paying for your epilepsy... oh wait, you can't afford it. Privatising such a vitle public service is abandoning societies poor.

 

[repiV]

Tell you what. You Pioneer this idea by paying for your epilepsy... oh wait, you can't afford it. Privatising such a vitle public service is abandoning societies poor.

I already said that I don't agree with privatised healthcare - twice, possibly three times.
In any case, the biggest problem is that insurers are not obligated to cover you. Most of them won't cover you if you have a pre-existing condition. I've found a couple that do, at no extra charge, which I was amazed at...