You know what? Screw atheism, I want guns in my school.

[Atomic_Piggy]

And we're facing another case of biased interpretation.

Any interpretation is biased. Whats your point?

Just because you don't agree with the church point of view it doesn't mean they're at fault.

No, but if they are responsible for more suffering and then act like hypocritical pricks on the moral highground then they are at fault.

They specifically advice DON'T go around f*ucking with every person that crosses your way. It's stupid to blame the church for people getting infected with AIDS. If people over there follow church's advice of not using condoms, why don't they follow also the "don't be promiscuous" one?

Do you have any idea what it is like in places like Seirra Leone? They **** to get kids, because A) they have no education and B) they're survival may depend on it. Plus most kids die young. And eventaully the mother or father dies, and they must have new kids.

If people get infected for unsafe sex it's their own fault for being indecisive about what to do:

1. They ignore the church completely and have a disordered sex life but use condoms.

But thats the point. They have no education, and so cannot ignore the church.

2. They follow both advices and stop having random sex partners, become monogamous and then the risk of getting infected (because of sex) will drop dramatically even if they don't use condoms.

But they woulnd't need to be monogamous if they used condoms. They could have all the sex they wanted.

 

[RjD]

But they woulnd't need to be monogamous if they used condoms. They could have all the sex they wanted.

BUT DONT TEH SEE! THEY WILL GO TO HELLZ THEN!

 

[yakuruto]

I don't have anything to deal with because:

- I don't even support the Vatican on their "rid the world of condoms" crusade. The no condom policy makes sense *only* in the context of other catholic policies.

- Never said abstinence is the solution for HIV. Sex is a biological and psychological need, and I personally believe that asceticism is foolish, specially if you try to apply it the masses.



What I find rather disturbing is how close-minded and short-sighted people can be when criticizing anything they don't agree with (note I'm not excluding myself).

Yes, church can be blamed for misinformation and archaic practices and it's partially responsible for lots of the infections because of that, but it's not its fault if people is horny, so it's really people's fault if they get infected as a result of their promiscuous sex life when it specifically preaches monogamy.

As I said before, they should either follow or ignore both policies. I chose to ignore both.

 

[Sulkdodds]

They preach monogamy, and then declare sinful the safety measures that would allow one to safely pursue an alternative lifestyle.

That's called duress.

 

[RjD]

Yes, church can be blamed for misinformation and archaic practices and it's partially responsible for lots of the infections because of that,

indeed Glad we reached an agreement.


Or did we?

but it's not its fault if people is horny

Nobody blames "hornyness" (promiscuousness) of population on church. STRAW MAN ALERT.

so it's really people's fault if they get infected as a result of their promiscuous sex life when it specifically preaches monogamy.

It is church's fault, because it spreads DISINFORMATION regarding condom effectiveness (see above quote)

 

[RjD]

They preach monogamy, and then declare sinful the safety measures that would allow one to safely pursue an alternative lifestyle.

That's called duress.

It would be m-kay if the church just declared those measures "sinfull". What they really do is spread outright disinformation.

 

[yakuruto]

They preach monogamy, and then declare sinful the safety measures that would allow one to safely pursue an alternative lifestyle.

That's called duress.

Agreed, that's why ignore them.

But what would you expect of an organization trying to keep people from exploring options? It's like communists being chased and hunted down in capitalist societies.

EDIT:

indeed Glad we reached an agreement.


Or did we?

Nobody blames "hornyness" (promiscuousness) of population on church. STRAW MAN ALERT.
It is church's fault, because it spreads DISINFORMATION regarding condom effectiveness (see above quote)

Nope, looks like we haven't reached an agreement. First you agree on Church being partially responsible and then go again regarding them as the sole responsible for the infections.
Both groups have their share of blame, one for disinformation and the other for, even knowing of the risk, insisting on keep f*cking like there's no tomorrow.

 

[RjD]

It's like communists being chased and hunted down in capitalist societies.

Isn't McCarthy dead?

 

[Pesmerga]

Aye, as is the fad of being anti-commie.

What you've got here is a Church doing whatever it can to maintain a grip on people- their numbers are dwindling, their power has become titular at best, and they are just trying to reaffirm their hold on people by scaring them with "new sins".

The Catholic Church has done it before and they'll try to do it again- they'll go to ridiculous measures and with blind ignorance to attempt to reclaim their former power in Italy, Europe, and the rest of the western world.

Most religious debates have their sources in politics- kill their political influence and you'll kill the religion.

 

[RjD]

First you agree on Church being partially responsible and then go again regarding them as the sole responsible for the infections.

I never claimed that church is solely responsible.
ANOTHER STRAW MAN ALERT! STRAWMEN INVASION ON!

 

[yakuruto]

It is church's fault

Are you gonna deny you wrote that?

 

[Jintor]

See what the world "Soley" means.

 

[Krynn72]

To be fair, its usually assumed that you imply the word "solely" unless you specify otherwise.

 

[Pesmerga]

See what the world "Soley" means.

Ah, Soley Q-563, one of the outer rim planets. A desolate place, abandoned by the Alliance during the war, but still endures through the season's droughts and sand storms. Far be it from me to question why they continue to live there...

 

[RjD]

To be fair, its usually assume that unless you imply the word "solely" unless you specify otherwise.

Since when? I missed some kind of Memo on Advances is Rhetorics or something?

 

[Jintor]

Ah, Soley Q-563, one of the outer rim planets. A desolate place, abandoned by the Alliance during the war, but still endures through the season's droughts and sand storms. Far be it from me to question why they continue to live there...

DAMN YOU MISSPELLINGS

/EDIT Lol, many posts above me make zero sense. I hope this is intentional.

 

[Saturos]

Useless. Ever heard of causilty?

Not really. Do you mean how even a germ could alter history as we know it?

I think you might have misspelt that word. I couldn't find it anywhere on the interwebz.

Yeah, but the problem is that FTL travel has one small difficulty: It's against the laws of physics.

You mean, the laws of physics as we know it?

I'm not trying to discredit our current leaders in physics or anything, but there's still so much we don't know out there.

You can't reach the edge of universe. You just end up back where ye started.

One of Einsteins theories innit? Is it the theory of relativity?

Do you believe in unicorns? Or fearies? You shoulnd't make any kind of judegement since we are not masters of the universe.

Never hurts to wonder. That's always the first step in discovery I suppose. :thumbs: Yes, Nobody has the right to force any belief on anybody since we aren't the masters of the universe. That I can agree upon however.

However at the same time, let the atheists believe there is no god if they want and let the religious pray at their alters if they want.

 

[Krynn72]

Since when? I missed some kind of Memo on Advances is Rhetorics or something?

Since English tbh.

 

[Kyorisu]

Yes, Nobody has the right to force any belief on anybody since we aren't the masters of the universe.

Nice bullshit there. You wouldn't like living in a country under my rule I can tell you that much. We don't need to be masters of the universe. If we have to be to see this "god" people speak of then frankly he may as well not exist, I'm sure that's the way he'd like it.

You mean, the laws of physics as we know it?

I'm not trying to discredit our current leaders in physics or anything, but there's still so much we don't know out there.

No you are trying. Our understanding is of sufficient level to tell us no object with mass can travel at or faster than the speed of light. That's all that should matter to us common folk.

However at the same time, let the atheists believe there is no god if they want and let the religious pray at their alters if they want.

I try to teach my friends not to believe in imaginary people.

 

[Saturos]

Nice bullshit there. You wouldn't like living in a country under my rule I can tell you that much. We don't need to be masters of the universe. If we have to be to see this "god" people speak of then frankly he may as well not exist, I'm sure that's the way he'd like it.

That is true, though true enough then you wouldn't like my country either.

I would just separate every single ideology and belief into separate districts, so that way everyone would be happy in their own little coven of believers/non-believers. There. Problem solved.

Let's hope I don't get into any position of power one day then right? Supreme dictator/administrator of the Earth anyone? :E I could probably expect quite a few assassination attempts too.

No you are trying. Our understanding is of sufficient level to tell us no object with mass can travel at or faster than the speed of light. That's all that should matter to us common folk.

We all sound silly debating over crap like this not a single one of us has any control over whatsoever. We are all just, "common folk" after all right? University/public education be damned.

I try to teach my friends not to believe in imaginary people.

*Sigh*. Good thing there aren't many "theists" around here, otherwise this would turn into one hell of an argument.

 

[Jintor]

You're already dead, Dragonshirt. You just don't know it yet.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

Not really. Do you mean how even a germ could alter history as we know it?

I think you might have misspelt that word. I couldn't find it anywhere on the interwebz.

Aye, I mispelt it. In fact it may well not be causlity at all, and I'm just rambling about soemthing else. Whatever, it says that time travel into the past would send one to a parrelel universe. And since with FTL travel you arrive at an event before it has happened so you have travelled backward in time, and thus are shunted into a parrelel universe. That is assuming that you even could go FTL in the first place.

You mean, the laws of physics as we know it?

Various experiments can prove relatvity, and so it is likely that it is true. There is a possibility of it being wrong, but since we haven't observed anything travel FTL then it seems fair to suggest.

One of Einsteins theories innit? Is it the theory of relativity?

I think so.

Never hurts to wonder. That's always the first step in discovery I suppose. :thumbs: Yes, Nobody has the right to force any belief on anybody since we aren't the masters of the universe. That I can agree upon however.

However at the same time, let the atheists believe there is no god if they want and let the religious pray at their alters if they want.

I agree, provided that WE don't have to be affected by you. In this country I have to pay taxes to support the church of england. It most people in this country aren't religious anyway. its so dumb.

 

[RjD]

Since English tbh.

Quote from textbook or didn't happen.

 

[Krynn72]

Quote from textbook or didn't happen.

You're the reason we cant have nice things in this world.






Now did you assume I meant you're the sole reason why we cant have nice things? Or did you assume I meant "you're one of many reasons why we cant have nice things"? If you thought the latter... then you're not normal.

 

[yakuruto]

I recommend you to get out more often and socialize a little bit, if you're not aware of social convention you're bound to fail.

 

[Krynn72]

Me ?

 

[yakuruto]

Nope, I meant RjD, he doesn't seem to know very well how communication works.

 

[Krynn72]

Hahah, k. I was all like "wtf? Im on your side yakuruto!"

 

[RjD]

@Krynn72

You're the reason we cant have nice things in this world.

Now did you assume I meant you're the sole reason why we cant have nice things? Or did you assume I meant "you're one of many reasons why we cant have nice things"? If you thought the latter... then you're not normal.

Wow, so not quote from a big 'ol book of knowledge? That's too bad
P.S.: In fact, I would interpret statement like "You're the reason we cant have nice things in this world" as ironic.

@yakuruto

I recommend you to get out more often and socialize a little bit, if you're not aware of social convention you're bound to fail.

Try again.

 

[yakuruto]

No need

 

[Krynn72]

@Krynn72


Wow, so not quote from a big 'ol book of knowledge? That's too bad
P.S.: In fact, I would interpret statement like "You're the reason we cant have nice things in this world" as ironic.

Wut? I dont know what you said in the first sentence. And how can an example be subject to irony? Your communicative skills are lacking my friend.


EDIT: Oh, its supposed to be "Aww, so no quote...?" I understand that now. It really confused me with the "wow" expression, and the typo in that two letter word.

 

[RjD]

@Krynn72

Wut? I dont know what you said in the first sentence. And how can an example be subject to irony? Your communicative skills are lacking my friend.

Expert voices his unbiased conclusion

EDIT: Oh, its supposed to be "Aww, so no quote...?" I understand that now. It really confused me with the "wow" expression, and the typo in that two letter word.

Teh spelling mishtaks ar copirightet to!

@yakuruto
That's what you think.

 

[yakuruto]

Nope, that's a fact, since you tried to change the course of your argument trying to deny something that you clearly intended you lost your ground. Deal with it.

 

[Seppo]

this r serius discusson?

 

[RjD]

C'mon, yakuruto, my phrase, especially when taken in context of the discussion, can not be interpreted as "it is solely church's fault".

Off course, as a citizen of a free country, you are free to
1) claim otherwise.
2) hang it on a linguistic/cultural disconnect between us.

Whatever you choose, it will not change the fact that an organization spreading dangerous disinformation regarding a certain problem is aggravating the situation and, thus, part of the problem.

 

[RjD]

this r serius discusson?

nO, juz folin' around.

 

[yakuruto]

me: [...] it's really people's fault if they get infected [...]
you: It is church's fault [...]

Read again what you wrote, put your phrase again in the context on my quote and you'll see that your latest attempt to save face = fail

 

[RjD]

Argument clinic, anyone?

Still don't see why it should be interpreted as if I implied "solely" there.
But, you are free to think so if that's what makes you happier.

your latest attempt to save face = fail

Who told you I am trying to "save face" in a pseudonymous discussion? That would be weird and pointless activity, even when compared to the "inehnetz arguments" overall...

 

[Sulkdodds]

I got an idea. RjD can say "okay, never mind, I take it back, what I would really like to say is this", and everyone else can accept it.

 

[RjD]

But Sulkdodds, that would kill all the fun!

It is a thread that started with Conservapedia link, for the love of Cthulhu!