Your Religon

[Yakuza]

Here's the way I see it- the simplified version (feel free to comment). God created man and gave him the free will to do whatever he wants. God made a set of guidelines for us to live by if we want to. If we live by the guidelines (10 commandments perhaps?) God will be pleased and good things will happen to us, but we won't necessarily go to heaven. If we don't live by the guidelines bad things will happen to us, but we won't necessarily go to hell.

When God gave us free will, he gave us the choice to do whatever we want. This explains why some bad things (like war) happen. It is man who makes the decision to go to war. God hates war, but it is necessary because of man's free will. The statement, "if God were real how could he let these things happen?", and the like hold no water IMO. If God were to intervene and stop things like war, he would be imposing on our free will.

To get to heaven, the Bible says that you must accept Jesus as Lord, believe that God raised Him from the dead. That's it. You don't need to go to church or give to a charity or anything. If you do these things though, God will bless you with a happy life. A murderer or a serial rapist could go to heaven if they believed. But they would still have to pay the consequences for what they'd done by being punished with a bad life. You only need to believe.

Disclaimer-
This is the way I think it is. I don't believe in the whole fire and brimstone thing. I may not have worded this correctly and I don't mean to offend anyone. Feel free to tell me where you think I'm wrong and I'll consider your opinion. Have a nice day, I'm goin to bed.

1)God told Adam and Eve not to eat from the tree of knowledge. They did and Sin entered the world. Corrupting man form his first breath into this world.

2)God actualy gave the Jews over 600 laws to follow, the Ten commandments are only the famous ones. He also said if you break one basicaly you have broken them all and are worthy of death.

3) God says that are good deeds are like filthy rags to him. Interesting too is that the hebrew word here that discribed filthy actuly describes menstral rags.

4) Yet Jesus came and shed his blood so that we do not have to live up to the perfect standard of God.

5) RE; The Church. The word church comes from the Greek word ekklesia wich means gathering. We gather at church for fellowship and to worship God.

Romans 12:5, "so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another."

Jesus is also head of the church.

Col. 1:18 "And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence."

So if Jesus is head of the church and savior of your soul why not attend.

 

[Neo_Kuja]

So if Jesus is head of the church and savior of your soul why not attend

Because some people don't have the time to go to church every sunday morning, and have other obligations. I find Christianity very focused on what you should be :

1) If YOU believe Jesus died on the cross, you go to HEAVEN.
2) If YOU DON'T believe that Jesus died on the cross, you're going to HELL.

It's a very interesting system used to control people. The thing people mostly fear is a bad afterlife (eternal torture, etc ...). So what does Christianity place some impact on ? Fear. Simple, *some* people who believe are just believing so because they are afraid of hell. As far as I know (can anyone confirm ?), Buddism has no "You believe - HEAVEN , You don't - HELL" type system, and allows people to join and exit as they please. As to all the evidence in the bible, like none of the stuff in it contradicts other stuff in it, it could have been written by a organization (Illuminati, etc), who would have instructions to continue and not contradict each other.

As to all the other people who feel sorry for us Athiests, don't. We choose to live by our own rules, and not by a being who *could* have been made up by other people. When I die, I will find out by myself what happens, and whatever happens, I will be secure in my decision to find out by myself, and that I didn't follow a mythological figure possibly made up by others.

I respect other religions, but please, consider that Christianity has some major flaws, and so do some Athiest's beliefs.

 

[Yakuza]

Because some people don't have the time to go to church every sunday morning, and have other obligations. I find Christianity very focused on what you should be :

1) If YOU believe Jesus died on the cross, you go to HEAVEN.
2) If YOU DON'T believe that Jesus died on the cross, you're going to HELL.

It's a very interesting system used to control people. The thing people mostly fear is a bad afterlife (eternal torture, etc ...). So what does Christianity place some impact on ? Fear. Simple, *some* people who believe are just believing so because they are afraid of hell. As far as I know (can anyone confirm ?), Buddism has no "You believe - HEAVEN , You don't - HELL" type system, and allows people to join and exit as they please. As to all the evidence in the bible, like none of the stuff in it contradicts other stuff in it, it could have been written by a organization (Illuminati, etc), who would have instructions to continue and not contradict each other.

As to all the other people who feel sorry for us Athiests, don't. We choose to live by our own rules, and not by a being who *could* have been made up by other people. When I die, I will find out by myself what happens, and whatever happens, I will be secure in my decision to find out by myself, and that I didn't follow a mythological figure possibly made up by others.

I respect other religions, but please, consider that Christianity has some major flaws, and so do some Athiest's beliefs.

1) Well about obligations = Priorites, whats more important to you.

Also there is a difference between Dont believe and Reject Jesus. There are thise who dont believe in Jesus because they have never heard or been revealed the truth of who he is.

Then there are those who Reject the truth of God and are punished for it.



2) If you wont go to church, how do you commune with others as the bible says. "do not give up meeting with each other as some are in the habit of doing." and confess your sins to one another, as in having acountability.

3) Yeah comming to Jesus is inherintly selfish, but the bible calls us to be Sanctified, that is set apart for Gods purpose only and eliminates the selfcentered self. Hince Jesus said "Pick up your cross, and deny yourself."

4) Its obvious you do not know how versions of the bible come to be. When a version of the bible comes out, whether it be in a different language or somthing like the NIV, you dont have a copy translated into a new version. Every version is translated for the original Texts, That is why all bibles are the same in context.

5) I have yet to meet any one who can offer a contradiction in the bible.

I think the only flaw is in your understanding.

 

[Ansur]

As far as I know (can anyone confirm ?), Buddism has no "You believe - HEAVEN , You don't - HELL" type system, and allows people to join and exit as they please.

There isn't any heaven or hell in Buddhism

About what you're saying about leaving a religion. That part only makes me belive there are no higher beings or whatever. What if I (hypothetically) am a big fan of Judaïsm and one day think its nothing for me and I want to be islam.
So I do the rituals and stuff and am with the islam. Now what if I die? I turned away from Judaïsm so I should get 'punished' for that, but I'm a big fan of the islam so I should be rewarded for that?

 

[Ansur]

5) I have yet to meet any one who can offer a contradiction in the bible.

I think the only flaw is in your understanding.

Thats fairly easy, since such a big book is all about interpretation. Someone can say its this way, someone else can say its the other way. Especially since many people that study the book, study it translated. This translation is also an interpretation.

 

[Yakuza]

Thats fairly easy, since such a big book is all about interpretation. Someone can say its this way, someone else can say its the other way. Especially since many people that study the book, study it translated. This translation is also an interpretation.

Thats right. People jump to the middle of the book and argue what they find.

Contextualy though the bible is pure. However I realy do enjoy some of the original Greek. Its is realy powerful stuff.

 

[Neo_Kuja]

I am sincerely sorry for people who let themselves be ruled by religion. We were put on this earth (by whoever/whatever) to be individuals. What Yakuza says contradicts this :

If you wont go to church, how do you commune with others as the bible says.

Yeah comming to Jesus is inherintly selfish, but the bible calls us to be Sanctified

I have one question for you. What happens if you die, and there is no heaven and hell ? What if it turns out that you've always been following a sham, and you've lived your life in accordance to other's wishes, through a Book ? I for one, don't want to take that chance, and I'm willing to take the risk that there is heaven/hell, and I've been wrong.

Every version is translated for the original Texts, That is why all bibles are the same in context.

It's all translated from the original ? Great .......... how does that change what I said ?

I have yet to meet any one who can offer a contradiction in the bible.

I never said there was ...

I think the only flaw is in your understanding.

OR yours. It can work both ways mate.

 

[Yakuza]

I have one question for you. What happens if you die, and there is no heaven and hell ? What if it turns out that you've always been following a sham, and you've lived your life in accordance to other's wishes, through a Book ? I for one, don't want to take that chance, and I'm willing to take the risk that there is heaven/hell, and I've been wrong.

I have actualy though about this.

Then I would die a man who has lived a wholesome truly fullfilling life. Since I became a follower of Jesus at the age of 21 my life has changed like you wouldn't believe. The lord is teaching me how to truly live, through both my fallings and the rightousness I have claimed through Jesus Christ.

I wasn't allways a Christian and my life has not been very easy to say the least.

Before saved:

I was married at the age of 17- and it was pure hell up untile I got saved at 21
My daughter who soon followed was born profoundly deaf.
I became addicted to drugs (weed and cocain)

After Saved:

My marriage has completly turned around.
My daughter was able to get money for a cocleaher(spelling) implant. And is now mainstreamed in school and is doing better than every kid in her class.
I havent done drugs for almost 4 consecutive years.


My life is completly different, and all I did was offer my heart to Jesus Christ, he did everything else. He changed my heart and the heart of my wife, He gave me the strength to overcome my addictions.

I am walking evidence of Gods grace, love, and mercy.



So what if it is true, and God does have a place for those who willfully reject the truth of God. Its it really worth it for you. I mean you could die tonight. Have already done everything you wanted to? Are you completly content with your life? Then what happens when you realise how much you forfited because of the love for a temporary world .

 

[Yakuza]

OR yours. It can work both ways mate.

Yet its is my understanding that is backed by theological doctrins, not simply gut feelings.

 

[Cybernoid]

I just find it hard to comprehend that we are the central focus of exisitance in the universe, are we really that important?

Considering the scale of the known universe, we are about as important as one grain of sand in the Sahara desert.

Buddism has no "You believe - HEAVEN , You don't - HELL" type system, and allows people to join and exit as they please.

Then again, if you don't live properly, you could be an ant or a fish in your next life. According to buddhism, borning as a human is basically like winning the lottery. Your ultimate goal is to escape the cyclic nature of the world and become free, like buddha did (good luck).

We choose to live by our own rules

How so? Most atheists probably adhere to the moral and ethical standards that have been refined over thousands of years (and largely influenced by religion!), as well as the general laws, rules and standards of society. It's no different from following a religion.

 

[JATZ-MAN]

i went to a christian brothers school and its the biggest load of shit. :flame:
the people that teached us about jesus and god.they only did it so they could get 2 pay cheque's. (maths and religion)
so im a practicing Atheist
and if i was to look at a religion it would Probably go Buddhism

 

[Neo_Kuja]

Most atheists probably adhere to the moral and ethical standards that have been refined over thousands of years (and largely influenced by religion!), as well as the general laws, rules and standards of society. It's no different from following a religion.

It is actually. The law doesn't make you go to church every sunday morning .....

 

[Cybernoid]

The law doesn't make you go to church every sunday morning .....

But the law governs your life. It tell you what you can and can not do. Society also governs your life by enforcing standards.

 

[Ansur]

But the law governs your life. It tell you what you can and can not do. Society also governs your life by enforcing standards.

There have to be some standards. I'm not saying I totally agree with everything the law emposes, but I'd rather have them saying I can't do X than that the catholic church says I can't do X.

Besides, there have to be some regulations, otherwise there would be a devastating chaos.

 

[Ansur]

I am walking evidence of Gods grace, love, and mercy.

And what about all those other believers, who are poor, without any future?
Just the pickyness of god?

 

[The Monkey]

What if i were an Ortodox(i'm not), then what would I vote for?

 

[Cybernoid]

There have to be some standards. I'm not saying I totally agree with everything the law emposes, but I'd rather have them saying I can't do X than that the catholic church says I can't do X.

Besides, there have to be some regulations, otherwise there would be a devastating chaos.

You don't want the church to tell you how to do things because they are the church, or because their values are too different from yours?

 

[Ansur]

You don't want the church to tell you how to do things because they are the church, or because their values are too different from yours?

i'm sure that the church has some values they hold high, that i too hold high, but that's not the point. the point is that i just won't believe there's a higher being/beings, which makes it useless for me to dedicate a part of my life to the church, since it has no meaning for me.

 

[StevenlAFl]

Generic Christian. I read the bible for myself and know the truth, instead of following all those bullshit rules the mofo's read me: all this pope shit was not in the bible, and I don't think any of the people have actually read and understood it for themselves.

 

[moz4rt]

So if Jesus is head of the church and savior of your soul why not attend.

All I'm saying is that going to church is not a requirement to get to heaven.

 

[moz4rt]

I have one question for you. What happens if you die, and there is no heaven and hell ? What if it turns out that you've always been following a sham, and you've lived your life in accordance to other's wishes, through a Book ? I for one, don't want to take that chance, and I'm willing to take the risk that there is heaven/hell, and I've been wrong.

Someone used to have a sig that said something like this:

If there isn't a God then in the end I loose nothing. If there is a God then in the end you loose everything.

 

[mchammer75040]

If there isn't a God then in the end I loose nothing. If there is a God then in the end you loose everything.

If you choose the wrong god you lose everything as well. If you choose christianity and islam ends up being the correct religion, well...see you in hell buddy.
Thats what baffles me about choosing one religion over another by faith. Faith is nothing more than blindly accepting a belief system. So if your to make your choice of which religion to subscribe too by faith..thats nothing more than drawing a card out of a hat. So right there faith is rendered useless as a way of accepting any religion on a logical basis.

So on what other basis can you accept a religion? Personal experience? Other people who have subscribed to different religions than you most definetely have what they think is personal experiences with the divine so how are they wrong and your right?

Empirical evidence? There is no more evidence supporting christianity than there is for a african tribe religion.

I am walking evidence of Gods grace, love, and mercy.

Your good fortune isnt proof of anything. Accepting your religious beliefs may have given you a motivation to stop drugs, changed your attitude and such but there is nothing divine about that. I changed radically when I became a atheist, Im much happier now and my life is less stressful.
I come from a poor family who abused drugs as well as each other, over the past 2 years things have changed dramatically. But it isnt because I asked jesus into my heart, he was never there in the first place, it was because everyone got their shit together and realized the horrible things that were going on. We no longer live in a small 1 room trailer, we live in a house now. I got a great job, with great friends and opportunities ahead of me, all because we took control not jesus.

Of course it can work differently for each person and Im not trying to diss you for coming out of where you came from, my only point is your arent evidence of God's love and mercy, your evidence that your beliefs has lead you to change yourself.
:cheers: