Your thoughts/specultions on HL2's current development status.

[spitcodfry]

Before I get started I would like to let the mods know that I'm fully aware of the rules regarding posting about the beta, yet I do feel that this is an important topic that should be discussed by the community. Like you, I do not condone posting any information about the beta other than vague reference, or eluding to the fact of it's incomplete state, which is already known. That being said, I do hope you will allow this thread to stay open.

To all those saying HL2 was delayed because of the hacking action, ill just remind you that what was leaked is what Valve has, nothing more and nothing less, so its pretty good to understand it wasnt finished yet.

This was supposedly posted by the thief in question. I disagree with that statement whole-heartedly for the following reasons:

A) ALL maps from the leaked beta pertaining to sections from the demos shown at E3 contain many missing attributes and bugs which prevent them from functioning properly. Obviously Valve wouldn't have been able to show those videos had they been in the state they are in contained within the beta.

B) Gabe and other Valve employees, in response to multiple e-mails and interviews, have stated that the current development state they are in for the game is playtesting. From anyone who has played or seen the beta, you obviously could come to the conclusion that that particular build that was lifted from Valve's computer network was not in any shape to be considered for playtesting other than that done by developers still working on it.

C) This game has been in development for FIVE years. Valve is not a slacking company. It is not as if they spent the first four years of development drafting concept art. They have been working on it for a very long time. One could argue that DNF has been in development for longer, yet Valve hasn't pulled a Broussard by switching engines several times over. They've been sticking with the same tech for that five year interim.

D) I do not post this last opinion to be chauvenistic in any way, shape or form. When I took the tour of Valve's offices back in early September, I asked Gabe and a fellow employee if they were satisfied with the game. A resounding yes came from both Gabe and the employee. They would not state such a thing if the game's development was as early as what is contained within the beta. The leaked alpha of Doom III had an overall more complete look than this leaked beta.

To put it simply, I believe that the hacker did NOT get everything, or even scratch the surface of what Valve had thus far in terms of developed content for the game. Valve allowing the same systems that had the code and different builds of the game for outside access was very foolish, I admit. But I do believe that their most current work is under lock and key in a vault computer, if you will.

Please do post your opinions about what you think of the current state the game is in, and if you believe whether or not the hacker got everything. I'm quite curious to see your views on this whole debacle.

 

[feylya]

Hmmm, that actually makes a lot of sense. Well, it's given me new hope for a November release.

 

[Yatta]

Wow, great post. And I whole-heartedly agree with you. Mods, if anything, you should make this a sticky.

 

[GhostValkyrie]

I think we'll be seeing this game in about two months, At least the SP version. That's my opinion on it's current state. Whether or not they entended a delayed release. VALVe's a good company that has done phenominal work, I doubt they'll let this slip. Whether or not they

-Ghost.

 

[GhostValkyrie]

Disregard this reply. I goofed. The one above is the real one!

-Ghost.

 

[Mr. Redundant]

:cheers:

 

[kelisis]

Well, one thing to look forward to is that the MP wasn't in the leaked beta. So, we still have more surprises to see. But, what I think of the matter is this "Anon" hacker probally grabbed as much as he could before he left the VALVe networks. That's why alot of the textures are missing and it's so buggy. Hopefully, VALVe will comment on this and tell us the truth. Weither it be good or not.

 

[Someone]

I agree.

I just don't buy the hacker tale in the least; too many holes and flaws with it. No way VALVe builds a game for 5 years in secret, then pops up randomly to give a date they can't possibly make because the game isn't close to being done. That in itself tells me the game is done (other than minor bugs, Steam issues, small problems). If it was that far from done, they could have come out next year and no one would have known any different. Plus, being late they KNEW fans would be angry so why take that chance with a date that can't be made? Everyone remembers the delay of hl1.

And I also don't buy that Gabe would have everything on his computer all the time as is implied by the hacker. All complete code and newest builds would be on the computers of the guys/gals building the game. Gabe may have bits a pieces to check out certain areas, or code, but not everything they have at any given minute.

On a side note, I do think the so called "beta" does give an indication of just how big the game will be. It's clearly missing a LOT of stuff and is still 1.5 gig, so I wouldn't be shocked to see a 4+ cd game.

 

[Whezzy]

i know this is supporting the beta ..sorry i i wish he spent more time and got a more updated ver...

 

[Whezzy]

on my disk its 4 gigs the dl is 1.5 all rared and tared up

 

[Yatta]

Originally posted by Whezzy
i know this is supporting the beta ..sorry i i wish he spent more time and got a more updated ver...

Lol don't be sorry, that's probably what most people here would have hoped for.

 

[Stormy151]

After reading several posts pointing out how the build compiled from the stolen code, or the "beta" has incomplete maps/models/etc. I now think that what is out there now cannot possibly be all that Valve has, and I'm hoping that Valve's plan and silence is because they still plan to make a holiday release of at least the single player version, and therefore shut all the naysayers and the thief up.

Actions speak louder than words after all.

On a side note, as a fan, I have to say I'm frustrated with the lack of official response and information from Valve. However, I understand that they aren't beholden to me (or the gaming community at large) for anything. They can keep us appraises of events up to the second, or they can not say anything until the game is released. It's kind of useless to be upset about it, though I can understand why people feel that way.

Deep down, I'd much rather them work on polishing the game for release than working on press releases for the game.

 

[qckbeam]

Well the beta is obviously an old build of the engine since it does not use HDR lighting which was shown in the engine build on Sept. 11th. It is also missing tons of E3 stuff, stuff we know for a fact is done and complete. The models are old versions (I know this only because every time I start up a level in the beta I am told by the console that the engine was excpecting model revision 37 and it only has revision 32, it does this for all guns and weapons), the antlion guard is ugly compared to the newer version shown off in the HDR video. There are shadow problems although Gabe and co. said the shadows were fixed up. Half the levels don't work because their BSP build is to old, and the ones that do are either very much WIP's or e3 demos. I could go on and on. The fact is the hacker is a liar and an idiot for even trying to say he took all there was to take. He stole an E3 or even a pre-e3 build from Gabes machine and he didn't even get all of it. Newere builds or the source engine and half-life 2 are PROVEN to be floating around, just find the HDR video released on Sept. 11th.

 

[Mr. Redundant]

Originally posted by qckbeam
Well the beta is obviously an old build of the engine since it does not use HDR lighting which was shown in the engine build on Sept. 11th. It is also missing tons of E3 stuff, stuff we know for a fact is done and complete. The models are old versions (I know this only because every time I start up a level in the beta I am told by the console that the engine was excpecting model revision 37 and it only has revision 32, it does this for all guns and weapons), the antlion guard is ugly compared to the newer version shown off in the HDR video. There are shadow problems although Gabe and co. said the shadows were fixed up. Half the levels don't work because their BSP build is to old, and the ones that do are either very much WIP's or e3 demos. I could go on and on. The fact is the hacker is a liar and an idiot for even trying to say he took all there was to take. He stole an E3 or even a pre-e3 build from Gabes machine and he didn't even get all of it. Newere builds or the source engine and half-life 2 are PROVEN to be floating around, just find the HDR video released on Sept. 11th.

I have said countless things along the same lines, as have others.. including Spitcodfry.
but honestly what you just wrote there, is the best summirization of the situation period,
you should have a new topic and that stickied. well done

 

[spitcodfry]

Originally posted by qckbeam
Well the beta is obviously an old build of the engine since it does not use HDR lighting which was shown in the engine build on Sept. 11th.

Your absolutely right. As a matter of fact that same level from the HDR vid was included in the beta, and I certainly could tell the absence of that effect.

Another thing to point out is how incomplete the AI is in this build. From a beta FAQ I attempted to figure out how to make the Strider walk out on the level which was the same used in the E3 vid. As soon as he walked out though he stood still in the same place just firing the machine gun at me.

 

[Hallucinogen]

Actually that is exactly same thing I said in another thread, so I agree with you 100%m the "LOSER" got owned.

For example; E3 demo had the map with the 50ft Strider penetrating "barney" with its sharp foot , the demo had this map BUT it was outdated .... which the NEWER map was shown at E3, same goes for ALOT of other maps.

 

[bate18]

i agree spic. this is the first good thread in a while

 

[Hallucinogen]

And another thing, in the E3 demo you had the ability to have Pheromones item, Pheromones is the item that lets you send Ant Lions to attack your enemies without being attacked by them, the stolen "demo" didnt have that item avalible .. heh .... I guess Valve knew what they were doing from the get-go.


Ant Llion

 

[maxxpc]

Extremely well put post.

-maxx.pc-

 

[Hallucinogen]

Originally posted by bate18
i agree spic.

\

Thats not nice calling someone a spic

 

[alco]

There are many, many arguments in favour of the beta being an old build. If there's an educated conclusion to be reached, it's this one.

What does this translate to? Well, hopefully we'll see a retail release for Half-Life 2 this year.

 

[Guest]

Originally posted by spitcodfry
Please do post your opinions about what you think of the current state the game is in, and if you believe whether or not the hacker got everything. I'm quite curious to see your views on this whole debacle.

I'm confident that it's nearly ready for gold, unless the leak somehow causes problems. It makes perfect, crystal clear sense to anyone who knows anything at all about the game industry and has some kind of grasp of common sense.

In any case, it's best to wait for Valve's official word.

 

[DanteHL2]

so many people I thought wouldn't dl the beta has dled it....pretty weird...

 

[Hallucinogen]

Few sites say that the game will be released on 11/11/03 .. so time will tell.

 

[Stormy151]

Best Buy.com is still showing that HL2 pre-orders will ship between 11/3 and 11/12.

Not that it's "official" by any stretch, I do find it odd that they haven't changed the date yet.

 

[evil.jelly]

i'm amazed that we are even contemplating taking the word of some attention seeking thief over our very own trusted and well loved game developer

game delays are de rigeur these days, and to me that's certainly not a reason to lose faith and confidence in Valve and whole heartedly accept a phrase from some retarded nfo

 

[Vanthem]

Good post, Spit although I think it belongs in the Speculation forum?

If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to post this up at HL2Files by itself or as a part of a "community opinion" piece (haven't decided) we'll be writing. With all the people running around frantic cursing VALVe's name and hailing Anon as a hero, I think it's important that people hear from the other side as well, especially when it's presented in a coherent, logical format.

 

[GhostValkyrie]

Originally posted by Hallucinogen
\

Thats not nice calling someone a spic

Oh God...*Begins laughing*

-Ghost.

 

[Guest]

Originally posted by evil.jelly
i'm amazed that we are even contemplating taking the word of some attention seeking thief over our very own trusted and well loved game developer

game delays are de rigeur these days, and to me that's certainly not a reason to lose faith and confidence in Valve and whole heartedly accept a phrase from some retarded nfo

Everyone playing PC games should know that delays happen all the time, but somehow Valve seems to be an exception? It's beyond amazing.

 

[Vanthem]

Best Buy.com is still showing that HL2 pre-orders will ship between 11/3 and 11/12

Unfortunately Best Buy is terrible with information. Amazon says HL2 comes out April 1st, how's that for some irony.

 

[Skullhair]

Good post Spitcodfry.

I still believe the two thefts were by two different people as you can read in my post here:

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12181


Gabe said they were at the play test stages and asking the play testers what they thought of this & that. So that tells me that the game is pretty much finished. The question is; do they need to change any of the code that was stolen, and if so, how much? If it was only a third of the code that was stolen like Gabe said then it shouldn't take to much time to change/recode what was stolen.

 

[Sublime_Guy]

gee that's funny, I posted something exactly like this, but everyone got all bitchy lol

 

[genocide604]

Spitcodfry you hit my thoughts on the money..


I the leaked version was a "foolaround" old copy that had e3 demo's and other random worked on maps..

so im my opinion.. im calling a november release.

 

[Vanthem]

I posted something exactly like this

Somehow I doubt that, Sublime.

 

[manny_c44]

I can't belive this. This post is not good. All of these points have been brought up countless times in threads throughout this board. If a headcrab had posted this people would be tossing around sarcastic comments and howling for the blood of the poster.

But no it is posted by Spitcodfry, our community hero! Let us all nod our heads in agreement when we've already read this drivel countless times before from a host of members. I've seen this happen a bunch of times with not only Spitcodfry but other senior members, as long as the first post is semi-long and presented well everyone champions its obvious message.

Very odd.

But whatever. Things won't change.

Anyway, I agree with all of your points Spit. I think its quite obvious from the speculation that this build is far from complete and not what VALVe has, especially since they are testing it, like you, and many others, mentioned.

 

[otomo]

yes its definately an old build but i dont understand why it says up in the corner its 6 days before 9/30. this might have been fabricated in it by the hacker / leaker. i think its just a valve smear campaign.

and on the AI being incomplete, it definately is, on the E3 demo level with the air ship the ship doens't even fly around it gets stuck.

good post spitcodfry

 

[otomo]

If a headcrab had posted this people would be tossing around sarcastic comments and howling for the blood of the poster.

unfortunately thats probably right but i do agree with it none the less. its just a shame people are so quick to flame.

 

[Vanthem]

Anyone that reads my posts knows I could care less how long you've been around, you say something stupid, I'll be happy to tell you so.

This post is not good. All of these points have been brought up countless times in threads throughout this board.

Show me a thread where those points were detailed reasonably in one post rather than scattered across a bunch of various comments in multiple threads.

 

[inevident]

otomo just because the flying enemy thingie is stuck doesn't mean it CANT fly.. because it does attack you on one of the coast maps, and its just like in the E3 demo. I believe this is the build they used for E3, but that it just isn't compiled right... or perhaps they used multiple commands to get the maps working correctly. And to a previous poster, you DO get that pheromone (wtf? spelling?) and you CAN make the bugs go after it

All in all it could just be a stripped down version made solely for the E3 demonstration, and they just took out things to reduce the size (scary cuz its already pretty big).

 

[Ace]

Now, not that I wanna ruin anything, but he actually threatens to releasing more, meaning the beta ISN'T neccessary ALL HE GOT!!
Alltough he states that the released *ALPHA* is all Valve got.
Quite the moment 22 here!

Would be nice if Valve could tell us _something_ about it, I mean, they cant have anything to loose about telling us "That *Alpha* isnt all we got". How hard can it be?