30 second anti-Bush ads.

[ductonius]

And spend how many billions on it? You know, USA doesn’t have limitless budget.

And your point is?

Plus thinking like that doesn’t help at all. Nazi Germany was the most powerful country in Europe, and we know how this ended.

Nice joke, horrible argument.

I know war is our nature, but it doesn’t make it any good. I supported war in Afghanistan, but war in Iraq seems to be based on lies.

War is niether good nor bad. It is a tool to affect rapid change. If it is used by wicked people, it creates wickedness. If it is used to combat wickedness, it dispels wickedness. The only reason war should be avoided is becuae it is a cource of action that cannot be reversed. One must be willing to commit fully to it and remain committed until it is over.

It is fatal to enter a war without the will to finish it. ----some famous guy

 

[ductonius]

Ah but you see this is the problem. You say you are the worlds police force, but you then refuse to answer to the world ( of which the UN is the main forum).

As far as I know, the world dosent pay for the US military. Until it does, the US will probably continue to get rid of thugs and tyrants on its own accord, despite any arms deals France may have with said thugs and tyrrants.

That is what a police force is, it is run by the people it protects. If not, it's just a private army .

Right, and again, the world does not run or pay for the US amred forces. So until the world is willing to pony up the dough to get rid of thugs and tyrrants, the US will have to do it for them and by its own will.

 

[gh0st]

ahh france, the nation of hypocrites/cowards.

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

You just love insulting people now don't you eh gh0st!

 

[gh0st]

im just keeping it real.

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

I'm sorry gh0st but you arnt giving me at least a very good impresion today. I have allready seen you insult both Canadians and the French in the mater of about 15 mins max.

This is the internet. There are people from ALL over the world who are just like you in allmost every respect. Learn to live with it.


Edit: I have to go sleep now since because I am in the UK its 11:30 and I have exams practice tomorrow....

 

[The Terminator]

Golly, maybe I will move to Canada, because Bush is so evil. Atleast in Canada I will never have to worry about war, since we can all tuck our tails between our legs and hide in our igloos while we cook up some Canadian Bacon and pretend that it's not a slice of ham.


Trashtalk our president? Then you are not welcome in my country.

Wow, are you communist? No free speech, whoever says the President has done a bad job, or doesnt agree with what he does should be deported or something? Your almost as bad as Bush, no wonder you agree with him.

 

[The Terminator]

And your point is?



Nice joke, horrible argument.




War is niether good nor bad. It is a tool to affect rapid change. If it is used by wicked people, it creates wickedness. If it is used to combat wickedness, it dispels wickedness. The only reason war should be avoided is becuae it is a cource of action that cannot be reversed. One must be willing to commit fully to it and remain committed until it is over.

It is fatal to enter a war without the will to finish it. ----some famous guy

Wow, anyone here who is at all informed can see just how naive that post was.

-His point about the limitless budget is that by creating the largest defeciet in recent history that hes had to cut 2.5 million AMERICAN(which you cliam to care so much about) jobs. Do you care about that?

-His point about Nazi Germany is that just because your the strongest country doesnt mean your right. You belive that America is doing a good thing by attack Iraq, but most of the German public believed what Hitler told them about the Jews and later belived that Jews caused all their problems and was glad Hitler started the halocaust.

War is niether good nor bad. It is a tool to affect rapid change. If it is used by wicked people, it creates wickedness. If it is used to combat wickedness, it dispels wickedness. The only reason war should be avoided is becuae it is a cource of action that cannot be reversed. One must be willing to commit fully to it and remain committed until it is over.

wow, just wow...I cant belive that you think war is good. Sure, I can understand that maybe you could justify the killing of thousands of innocent civilians in Iraq if America actually got something out of it besides deaths of your troops and oil...

 

[Mr.Reak]

War is niether good nor bad. It is a tool to affect rapid change. If it is used by wicked people, it creates wickedness. If it is used to combat wickedness, it dispels wickedness. The only reason war should be avoided is becuae it is a cource of action that cannot be reversed. One must be willing to commit fully to it and remain committed until it is over.

It is fatal to enter a war without the will to finish it. ----some famous guy

Amazing logic. Actually, crusaders followed almost the same logic. They killed in the name of God. This is a good reason, isn’t? Plus Laden forces, they are killing in the name of Allah, good reason for them also. They are just like crusaders. History repeats itself, but too bad your post showed that humans are incapable of changing or learning ANYTHING. War is good, as it was good in the dawn of man.

 

[Tr0n]

War is what shapes nations.War is how america and england was founded and war is what destroyed nazi germany.I don't see why other countries care about what we do....Mesa thinking france and england is jealous of us....

 

[The Terminator]

Right, and again, the world does not run or pay for the US amred forces. So until the world is willing to pony up the dough to get rid of thugs and tyrrants, the US will have to do it for them and by its own will.

I dont think you understand what he said, He said that a police force is run by the people it protects. Bush claims that he is protecting the free world by attacking places like Iraq. When, most of the freeworld disagrees. Basically, you agreed with what he said about it being his own private army, running around killing whoever he doesnt like.

 

[The Terminator]

War is what shapes nations.War is how america and england was founded

Canada was also and British colony, just like america. We didnt go to war with Britain ever. And look at us, are we not a seperate nation, with our own Prime Minister, laws, and place in the UN?

 

[Dedalus]

so anyway what did you guys think of those videos? great stuff eh?

 

[ductonius]

-His point about the limitless budget is that by creating the largest defeciet in recent history that hes had to cut 2.5 million AMERICAN(which you cliam to care so much about) jobs. Do you care about that?

#1 I didnt see anything about the deficit or 2.5 million jobs in his post. I cant read things into his words he didnt put there.

#2. Deficits always go up, such is the nature of a budget with a currency that expierences inflation. A deficit of 5cents in 1950 would be larger than a deficit of 5cents today.

Besides, the number of years the US has not run a deficit is so insignifigantly small that to criticize a president for authorizing a budget with a deficit is paramount to policial comedy. Such a criticism saterizes itself simply by its absurdity.

-His point about Nazi Germany is that just because your the strongest country doesnt mean your right. You belive that America is doing a good thing by attack Iraq, but most of the German public believed what Hitler told them about the Jews and later belived that Jews caused all their problems and was glad Hitler started the halocaust.

#1. The mass killing of Jews et al didnt start until 1942 and the public was only told about it after the war. Why do you think all these old nazi/holocoust denyers exist? Its becuae they dont beleive that Hilter would do such a thing becuae they didnt know about it until after the war when everyone else found out as well.

#2. When did I say might made right? I said that these traits still exist and are present all over the world. It is impossible to credibly berate the US for using its army simply becuae the world has not and probably never will progress beyond the fact that there is always someone who is not as friendly to you as you are to them.

There will always be people who want to kill you simply for your existance, therefore, criticizing someone simply for using force ignors the fact that such force may be completly legitimate.

wow, just wow...I cant belive that you think war is good. Sure, I can understand that maybe you could justify the killing of thousands of innocent civilians in Iraq if America actually got something out of it besides deaths of your troops and oil...

When did I say war was good? I said war is niether good nor bad. It is a tool. Its value is enterly dependant on who uses it. It is good in as much as a hammer is good, and is as bad as much as a hammer is bad.

 

[The Terminator]

#1 I didnt see anything about the deficit or 2.5 million jobs in his post. I cant read things into his words he didnt put there.


#2. Deficits always go up, such is the nature of a budget with a currency that expierences inflation. A deficit of 5cents in 1950 would be larger than a deficit of 5cents today.

Besides, the number of years the US has not run a deficit is so insignifigantly small that to criticize a president for authorizing a budget with a deficit is paramount to policial comedy. Such a criticism saterizes itself simply by its absurdity.



#1. The mass killing of Jews et al didnt start until 1942 and the public was only told about it after the war. Why do you think all these old nazi/holocoust denyers exist? Its becuae they dont beleive that Hilter would do such a thing becuae they didnt know about it until after the war when everyone else found out as well.

#2. When did I say might made right? I said that these traits still exist and are present all over the world. It is impossible to credibly berate the US for using its army simply becuae the world has not and probably never will progress beyond the fact that there is always someone who is not as friendly to you as you are to them.

There will always be people who want to kill you simply for your existance, therefore, criticizing someone simply for using force ignors the fact that such force may be completly legitimate.




When did I say war was good? I said war is niether good nor bad. It is a tool. Its value is enterly dependant on who uses it. It is good in as much as a hammer is good, and is as bad as much as a hammer is bad.

#1. Maybe you should learn the facts before you deicide on a point and argue it.

#2. He started his term as President with the largest surplus in American History, pretty good right? He now has the biggest deficiet, but thats just inflamation right?

#1. Hitler still told the German people that the Jews were the cause of their problems, and convinced most of them through propaganda and lies. The Germans belived him, and did what he said.

#2. Just because those traists exist all over the world doesnt make them right, the powerful nation of America should use its power to set an example of what free countries should do. One of them is not start multiple wars in the span of 3-4 years.


Oh, and name one war that Bush started that was good, or turned out good...?

 

[ductonius]

I dont think you understand what he said, He said that a police force is run by the people it protects. Bush claims that he is protecting the free world by attacking places like Iraq. When, most of the freeworld disagrees. Basically, you agreed with what he said about it being his own private army, running around killing whoever he doesnt like.

If by "most of the free world" yuu mean Germany, France and Russia, then sure, you may have a point. However, if you actually take into accoutn the rest of the world you really dont.

Here are the nations that are part of the US coalition in Iraq. Bold is European or near European, Italic is Non-euro first world.

Afghanistan
Albania
Australia
Azerbaijan
Bulgaria
Columbia
The Czech Republic
Denmark
El Salvador
Eritrea
Estonia
Ethiopia
Georgia
Hungary
Italy
Japan
Latvia
Lithuania
Macedonia
Nicaragua
Philippines
Poland
Romania
Slovakia
South Korea
Spain
The Netherlands
Turkey
United Kingdom
Uzbekistan

So which major European nations does this leave that are against teh war? Oh yeah, France, Germany, Russia.

The US led invasion of Iraq has a broad spectrum of support from countries inside and outside Europe. Most signifigantly the Japanese Self Defese Force is sending troops to Iraq.

 

[The Terminator]

If by "most of the free world" yuu mean Germany, France and Russia, then sure, you may have a point. However, if you actually take into accoutn the rest of the world you really dont.

Here are the nations that are part of the US coalition in Iraq. Bold is European or near European, Italic is Non-euro first world.

Afghanistan
Albania
Australia
Azerbaijan
Bulgaria
Columbia
The Czech Republic
Denmark
El Salvador
Eritrea
Estonia
Ethiopia
Georgia
Hungary
Italy
Japan
Latvia
Lithuania
Macedonia
Nicaragua
Philippines
Poland
Romania
Slovakia
South Korea
Spain
The Netherlands
Turkey
United Kingdom
Uzbekistan

So which major European nations does this leave that are against teh war? Oh yeah, France, Germany, Russia.

The US led invasion of Iraq has a broad spectrum of support from countries inside and outside Europe. Most signifigantly the Japanese Self Defese Force is sending troops to Iraq.

and then look at all the countries who dont support them, but you didnt list those. Countries like Germany, France, Canada, Russia, oh no, there not important. Bush is just a bully, who goes around saying things like "If your not part of the solution, your part of the prolem." he scares countries onto his side for fear of developing bad relationships with the U.S.

 

[ductonius]

#1. Maybe you should learn the facts before you deicide on a point and argue it.

Maybe you should take up the issue with these people: http://www.holocaustcenter.org/Holocaust/1942.shtml

First gassing was on July 23, 1942. About half way down the page. Most of the History profs as my Uni count that as the start of the Holocoust becuae its when the deliberate mass extermination started.

Persicution and even killing of Jews was common but not until July 23, 1942 did the mass gassing start.

#2. He started his term as President with the largest surplus in American History, pretty good right? He now has the biggest deficiet, but thats just inflamation right?

Of couce it looks bad if you ignore the fact that he was handed a bursting tech bubble, 9/11 and then cleaned up Afghanistan. Its no small wonder that there is a deficit. The fact that its "the largest in history" is like Titanic being the highest grossing film of all time. It really isnt. Gone With the Wind is, its just that when it was released a movie cost 25 cents to get into, and today it cost $10, so of cource they rake in more dollars for Titanic than they did for Gone With the Wind.

Same deal. The dollar figure on todays budget may be higher, but when you compare it to the size of past deficits when looking at the value of the dollars you will see its not the highest deficit. Expecially when you count the increase in the size of the economy over time.

#1. Hitler still told the German people that the Jews were the cause of their problems, and convinced most of them through propaganda and lies. The Germans belived him, and did what he said.

#1. No, he never convinced more than 36% of germans he was right, becuae thats the percentage of the vote he recieved in the last election before his takeover.

#2. After his takeover people did what they were told becuae he had the SA and Gestapo all over the place making people disappear.

#2. Just because those traists exist all over the world doesnt make them right, the powerful nation of America should use its power to set an example of what free countries should do. One of them is not start multiple wars in the span of 3-4 years.

Lead by example only works in small groups where the parties care about each others opinoins. Saddam, Mugabe, Jung et al dont care about the opinoin of the world, they just want what they want.

12 years of the US not attacking Saddam didnt change his mind, I think thats lead by example plenty enough.

Oh, and name one war that Bush started that was good, or turned out good...?

You see the thing is, you cant, cause the only one he started is not over yet.

 

[gh0st]

ductonius i love you!

 

[GhostValkyrie]

YAY! I haven't seen this many Pro-Americans since Badger's thread on the war. It's good to see my fellow Americans, and allies, take a stand. Lately I've found myself and one other in any given thread defending our beloved nation. Not any "one" person, just that it was always one different person each time. It's good to really see you guys take a stand. We've been getting crap from these Anti-American, Anti-Bush liberals for a while. They start threads, like this one, and expect everyone to lay back and take it. Then, they call us names because we defend our ideals and the things we cherish. What makes me even angrier is that they say what we can andd can't do. Like Kadayi telling me I can't love my country - I'll love my country if I want to, Goddamnit!

As for the Economy; You're seeing Bush reaping the the weight of Clinton's mistakes.

As is typical; Democrats give the country's economy a jump-start that barely last, then it degrades and falls on the next President. It's funny how people think the immediate deficate was Bush's fualt - It was already there when Clinton left office!

As is typical; Republicans linger their measures in helping the economy, assuring the feature will have a decent one.

Democrats - Focus on the now, and how people should feel about problems.
Republicans - Focuse on the future, and how to actually fix the problems.

 

[ductonius]

and then look at all the countries who dont support them, but you didnt list those. Countries like Germany, France, Canada, Russia, oh no, there not important. Bush is just a bully, who goes around saying things like "If your not part of the solution, your part of the prolem." he scares countries onto his side for fear of developing bad relationships with the U.S.

#1. Canada: Canada is not against the war, Jean Cretien was. Canada is split pretty evenly on the issue to the extent that Canada decided to deploy more troops to Afghanistan right before the war in Iraq started, conveintly relieving US troops to take part in the invasion.

#2. The others you listed: I already listed those.

 

[gh0st]

If by "most of the free world" yuu mean Germany, France and Russia, then sure, you may have a point. However, if you actually take into accoutn the rest of the world you really dont.

Here are the nations that are part of the US coalition in Iraq. Bold is European or near European, Italic is Non-euro first world.

Afghanistan
Albania
Australia
Azerbaijan
Bulgaria
Columbia
The Czech Republic
Denmark
El Salvador
Eritrea
Estonia
Ethiopia
Georgia
Hungary
Italy
Japan
Latvia
Lithuania
Macedonia
Nicaragua
Philippines
Poland
Romania
Slovakia
South Korea
Spain
The Netherlands
Turkey
United Kingdom
Uzbekistan

So which major European nations does this leave that are against teh war? Oh yeah, France, Germany, Russia.

The US led invasion of Iraq has a broad spectrum of support from countries inside and outside Europe. Most signifigantly the Japanese Self Defese Force is sending troops to Iraq.

since when is albania, or eritrea or nicaragua, or ethiopia a first world nation?

 

[ductonius]

since when is albania, or eritrea or nicaragua, or ethiopia a first world nation?

I never claimed any of the ones you listed were. I said Albania it was European which is undeniably true and I dont know where you got the impression that I said the other three were first world.

 

[GhostValkyrie]

Whoops! I meant to say the future, not the feature.
/me blushes. I'm thinking about Movies too much.
Sorry.

 

[The Terminator]

Ductonious, youve been brainwashed by your governments propaganda. Your a blind sheep that refuses to look at anything without a pro-american bias. Fact is, that Bush is one of the worst Pesidents America has ever had, and hasnt done the world any favours.

 

[Tr0n]

.....and Terminator you have been brainwashed by anti-american slogans from your country....so really you shouldn't be saying shit.Everyone is brainwashed with propganda....don't matter if it's pro something or anti something.Also don't say "no I have seen the truth" or "reality" because you haven't.

 

[GhostValkyrie]

Ductonious, youve been brainwashed by your governments propaganda. Your a blind sheep that refuses to look at anything without a pro-american bias. Fact is, that Bush is one of the worst Pesidents America has ever had, and hasnt done the world any favours.

And what has your country's current leader done for the world?

BTW: Before you accuse me of being brainwashed, I have looked at it from a Not-so-Pro-American perspective. I used to be like you...when I was 15, and didn't only though I knew the truth. As for my Govt., I could care less. I know there's an abundance of corruption in our Govt., but what Govt. is without corruption? As for being brainwashed, HA! I doubt any American gives more than 50% of their trust to the Govt., because of the things it's done in the past. I hope you know there is no escaping from buying American products.

Example: My friend works for GMC, used to work for Honda, and once specialized in Car Sales Transportation. There is no such thing as an independent market for car dealerships. Except maybe...Toyota, or something...Anyway, every car maker in the world is on it together. 85 -90 % of the so called "rice burners" are American parts, and the fact that many of them are built here in the USA. The Manufacturing HQ for Nissan is in Tennessee I believe...meaning it's built by Americans, along with many of your other precious gems. Many other "foreign" car companies are owned by For, Chevrolet, and GMC...many of those being European car companies. Just something for some of you "non-violent" extremists to think about next time you buy your car.

BTW: In case you wish to contradict, being that you also know this, I already know ; Roughly 75 - 80% of GMC's vehicles are manufactured with foreign parts - Japanese ones. The chart consideration for Domestic and foreign is bit weird.
85 - 90 % foreign parts makes it foreign.
95 % or above domestic parts makes it domestic.
But, like I said, It's a World Market. One in which the US and Japan are the Heavy Weights.

 

[ductonius]

Ductonious, youve been brainwashed by your governments propaganda. Your a blind sheep that refuses to look at anything without a pro-american bias. Fact is, that Bush is one of the worst Pesidents America has ever had, and hasnt done the world any favours.

Im Canadain. If the propoganda in Canada brainwashed me to be pro-Bush then its had the exact opposite of its intended effect.

Just becaue I disagree with you that dosent mean I have not thought about the issues to the same degree you have, it simply means I have arrived at different conclutions.

 

[gh0st]

nevermind.

 

[waedoe]

ah behold the power of brainwashing. Yes it exists, yes it can be *GOOD* or *BAD*. i remeber the cold war... or rather reading about it. It seemed to me that while americans were being "brainwashed" into thinking that the U.S.S.R was our enemy our country was a hell of alot better than it stands now. Not only did the U.S.A have acctually unity, but we didnt have all these hardcore liberals, secular, bitching mofo's around, saying that being a cross dresser was cool, and that being a rapist was a way of showing off your "INDIVIDUALITY" back in the 50's and such you sucked it up and took it like a man. now adays its if u look at some one wrong your a racist. WTF!!!!!! is it just me or were we better off all brainwashed? i personnally would have loved being brainwashed, rather than arguing with u mofo's right now! but hey times changed for the worse....

 

[Javert]

And what has your country's current leader done for the world?

Example: My friend works for GMC, used to work for Honda, and once specialized in Car Sales Transportation. There is no such thing as an independent market for car dealerships. Except maybe...Toyota, or something...Anyway, every car maker in the world is on it together. 85 -90 % of the so called "rice burners" are American parts, and the fact that many of them are built here in the USA. The Manufacturing HQ for Nissan is in Tennessee I believe...meaning it's built by Americans, along with many of your other precious gems. Many other "foreign" car companies are owned by For, Chevrolet, and GMC...many of those being European car companies. Just something for some of you "non-violent" extremists to think about next time you buy your car.

That's all very peachy-cream copacetic, but our discussion is not about the automobile industry.

And please, the majority of those countries that are part of the coalition are merely puppies begging for table scraps from the US and UK as reasons for joining (economic and business support, political support, security). It's basically one huge favor to the true 1st world countries for rewards later on. Rule #1 for most things political: There is no effect from which there is no cause. Ok, so they give some form of support. Here's my question to you: Who's spending the most of their country's resources? Who "plays God" so to speak? Which countries are sending over the most troops and are suffering the most casulties?
1. United States
2. United Kingdom
3. Spain (this past month)
4. Italy (during the fall, again last month)
Forget about the other 20 or so. Bush has clearly made this a US dominant "coalition", contrary to the meaning of the word: combination, union. Bush is a cowboy of the world more than a president of a nation. "Bring 'em on!"

 

[waedoe]

That's all very peachy-cream copacetic, but our discussion is not about the automobile industry.

And please, the majority of those countries that are part of the coalition are merely puppies begging for table scraps from the US and UK as reasons for joining (economic and business support, political support, security). It's basically one huge favor to the true 1st world countries for rewards later on. Rule #1 for most things political: There is no effect from which there is no cause. Ok, so they give some form of support. Here's my question to you: Who's spending the most of their country's resources? Who "plays God" so to speak? Which countries are sending over the most troops and are suffering the most casulties?
1. United States
2. United Kingdom
3. Spain (this past month)
4. Italy (during the fall, again last month)
Forget about the other 20 or so. Bush has clearly made this a US dominant "coalition", contrary to the meaning of the word: combination, union. Bush is a cowboy of the world more than a president of a nation. "Bring 'em on!"

Remeber somalia, yeah black hawk down. COALITIONS SUCK, they take to long to mobilize. hell we took 3 weeks to get over there, more than enough time for saddam to get his WMD's outa there. any how, coalistions suck like i said. GTG BED TIME

 

[GhostValkyrie]

I know it wasn't about Automobiles. I was just addressing the issue of the US presence in, well, virtually everything. I didn't mean to stray from the subject, I was just trying to enlighten the rest of you. Did it really hurt that bad to leanr something new?

ah behold the power of brainwashing. Yes it exists, yes it can be *GOOD* or *BAD*. i remeber the cold war... or rather reading about it. It seemed to me that while americans were being "brainwashed" into thinking that the U.S.S.R was our enemy our country was a hell of alot better than it stands now. Not only did the U.S.A have acctually unity, but we didnt have all these hardcore liberals, secular, bitching mofo's around, saying that being a cross dresser was cool, and that being a rapist was a way of showing off your "INDIVIDUALITY" back in the 50's and such you sucked it up and took it like a man.

HELL YEAH!!!!!!!!!

 

[ductonius]

And please, the majority of those countries that are part of the coalition are merely puppies begging for table scraps from the US and UK as reasons for joining (economic and business support, political support, security). It's basically one huge favor to the true 1st world countries for rewards later on.

It is possible to assign selfish reasons for any aciton. It can be said that France, Germany and Russia are against the war for the principal that war is bad. Then again, it can be said that they simply wanted to preserve the many documented business deals they had going on with Iraq.

Similary, the nations supporting the US can be said to only have economic reasons in mind for doing so. However by the same token, it can also be siad that they agreed with the US and joined the coalition irrespective of the economic reasons, and that they joined simiply becuae they felt it was the right thing to do.

Ultimatly, it has to be recognized that the Italy, Spain, UK, Australia and Japan are sending large numbers of to Iraq and that these nations do not need to suck up to the US for trade/treaty tidbits. If Canada can stay out and not be harmed economically, Japan surely dosnt need to go in for economic purposes.

Rule #1 for most things political: There is no effect from which there is no cause. Ok, so they give some form of support. Here's my question to you: Who's spending the most of their country's resources? Who "plays God" so to speak? Which countries are sending over the most troops and are suffering the most casulties?
1. United States
2. United Kingdom
3. Spain (this past month)
4. Italy (during the fall, again last month)
Forget about the other 20 or so. Bush has clearly made this a US dominant "coalition", contrary to the meaning of the word: combination, union. Bush is a cowboy of the world more than a president of a nation. "Bring 'em on!"

I dont see your point. You ask a question, then answer it, then state that the US has the most troops in Iraq which is undenably true. I really dont see what you are getting at.

 

[Dulrough]

I seem to remeber a man in office before bush. OH YEAH that was bill *PLZ INSERT HERE* boy. he sat on his ass. making billions for our country. at the expense of our military. He degraded our military to crap. we were stripping our planes and copters to make other planes and copters work. He also degenerated our intellegence gathering, which led up to 9/11. the silver tongue of bill clinton has grasped most of our people today, and still has a grip. People now bitch about the war in iraq. I never saw any one bitching about the time when clinton bombed Iraq without U.N. council. Blame the two towers falling on clintons ass. bush tried to rebuild our military but liberals wouldnt have it. Maybe if clinton would have used the nessisary funds to take care of our intellegence community none of this would have happened.

Ermmm, have you any research to back this up? I mean the Clinton striped our military part. He didnt need to do anything with tanks, the cold war left us with abrahms to our eyeballs, he converted a shitload of old dumb bombs into the fancy GPS ones just by adding a new fin. Ah and Dick Cheny said something like (dont quote me exactly here) "there is nothing a current administration can do about its military in the time they are given for those changes to be affective, it all depends on how the administration before you organizes it" so Bush is doing pretty well with Clintos military huh? What ticks me off the most is that he cut benifits for reservists!!! I was planning on being in the reserves after i did 3 years or so, shit im already in MCJROTC, I hope that gets fixed.

Prove me wrong though I have changed view points so often now ive lost track, although getting me to trust bush is going to take some doing.

I am decidedly neutral as of now, so screw all those political guys, democrats beat about the bush to much and rebublicans are workin on the wrong one, ugh.
:cheers: cheers!

 

[Mr.Reak]

God, they even take patriotism to the extremes. Idiotism beyond repair.

And guess what Ghost, I am republican and I hate Bush with passion. Uh, ah, or I can’t be republic and hate Bush at the same time?

 

[Lil' Timmy]

holy schamoly... i'm away for a few weeks and all hell breaks loose!!! i especially liked badgers 68 threats to close the thread.. way to impose your will MOD that and GV emphatically agreeing ("HELL YEAH!!!") with a 15 yr old (no offense waedoe). :|

i used to like to weigh in on sophomoric "political" discussions like these. but, increasingly, i find it difficult to be entertained by people regurgitating something they lapped up off of this website or that; or turning themselves into avatars, siphoning the will of the various media machinery they've come to trust implicitly. it's a sad state to be sure; where shall i find pleasure now? ;(

welp, that's all i've got to say.. there are so many ways to argue against stances like some of you have taken (not that many of them qualify as stances), but no one cares. just keep ignoring the world around you and let others do your thinking for you.. thinking is hard. to wit, i'll end this with several quotes so that i don't have to think too much:

"they that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-benjamin franklin (some commie america-hating liberal if you ask me)

"The media are a pitiful lot. They don't give us any history, they don't give us any analysis, they don't tell us anything. They don't raise the most basic questions: Who has the most weapons of mass destruction in the world by far? Who has used weapons of mass destruction more than any other nation? Who has killed more people in this world with weapons of mass destruction than any other nation?"
-howard zinn (now i don't know who he is, but i bet zinn is talking about iraq!!!)

"I have the greatest admiration for your propaganda. Propaganda in the West is carried out by experts who have had the best training in the world -- in the field of advertizing -- and have mastered the techniques with exceptional proficiency ... Yours are subtle and persuasive; ours are crude and obvious ... I think that the fundamental difference between our worlds, with respect to propaganda, is quite simple. You tend to believe yours ... and we tend to disbelieve ours."
– Soviet correspondent based five years in the U.S. (you better believe it Red.. chalk another one up for AMERICA!)

“The loud little handful will shout for war. The pulpit will warily and cautiously protest at first.... The great mass of the nation will rub its sleepy eyes, and will try to make out why there should be a war, and they will say earnestly and indignantly: "It is unjust and dishonorable and there is no need for war. Then the few will shout even louder.... Before long you will see a curious thing: anti-war speakers will be stoned from the platform, and free speech will be strangled by hordes of furious men who still agree with the speakers but dare not admit it... Next, the statesmen will invent cheap lies...and each man will be glad of these lies and will study them because they soothe his conscience; and thus he will bye and bye convince himself that the war is just and he will thank God for a better sleep he enjoys by his self-deception.”
– Mark Twain (umm, that was too long for me to read at once, i'm not sure if he's a commie or not)

“Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of State and corporate power.”
– Benito Mussolini (halliburton? bechtel? who says we don't learn from history?)

“It would be easy for us, if we do not learn to understand the world and appreciate the rights, privileges and duties of all other countries and peoples, to represent in our power the same danger to the world that Fascism did.”
– Ernest Hemingway (thank god that dirty, secular, cross-dressing liberal died like a hundred years ago or whatever)

“The efficiency of the truly national leader consists mainly of preventing the people's attention from becoming divided, and of always concentrating it on a single enemy.”
– Adolf Hitler (yeah well you're lucky terrorism came along hitler, otherwise you'd still have americas boot solidly buried in your commie ass!! w00t!)

“Neither the foreign head of state (the Shah) nor the President nor Dr. Kissinger desired a victory for our clients (the Kurds). They merely hoped to ensure a level of hostilities high enough to sap the resources of the neighbouring state (Iraq). Even in the context of covert action, ours was a cynical enterprise.”
– US Congressional Pike Report, describing President Nixon and US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger's policy of arming the Kurds, 1972 (booyah! take that you damn terrorist kurds!)

i'm done in several ways.

 

[Javert]

I dont see your point. You ask a question, then answer it, then state that the US has the most troops in Iraq which is undenably true. I really dont see what you are getting at.

I'll make it simple and I'll say it slowly: That is not what I'd call a coalition of 20+ nations.

Forgive my bluntness.

*GASP* We actually have a Smilie for Bush! :monkee:

 

[Varg|Hund]

EDIT: Never mind. I must try to be nice to the patriotic USA-nians. Even though I don't like it

BTW, me likes Mr Reak and Javert *gives cookie*

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

Can I just point a small fact out. Not all people that hate bush like what their own country is doing. Don't say that just because we hate bush then we must like our leaders.

In my honest opinion the only way democracy trully works with any kind of credibillity in this world is if your country hates its rulers. That way they have to do the right thing or they get voted out. This is one of the reasons I absolutly hate patriotism. Sorry If I offend.