Another DE:IW thread

[dawdler]

From what I've heard...Deus Ex 1 was better...and I still might check that out if I get bored sometime...

Its definetly better. Problem is of course, its got very dated graphics today. But you get more feeling out of it... The beginning is *alot* better, even though its at a lower pace than IW. There where always parts in DX that made me go "WOW"... (Hong Kong, Paris, fleeing Hells Kitchen, the MJ12 base under Hong Kong which was a beauty, etc). Never seen one of them so far in IW, but I'm just at the beginning. Gonna keep on playing. At the moment I've hit a bit of a snag, I aint got any ammo (though I have pistol, smg, shotgun and sniper, weapons arent lacking) and I have to kill these two dudes for the Order above the inclinator. I got that neat sword, but that doesnt help very much, as I get splattered as soon as I reach them. Do IW even *have* weapon/ammo stores? I've bought some junk such as a blackmarket biomod, but never saw any options for ammo... Need to check again I think.

Btw, what's up with the amazingly long load times? Even Postal 2 wasnt this insanely long!!!

 

[Sui]

I aint got any ammo (though I have pistol, smg, shotgun and sniper, weapons arent lacking) and I have to kill these two dudes for the Order above the inclinator. I got that neat sword, but that doesnt help very much,
Btw, what's up with the amazingly long load times? Even Postal 2 wasnt this insanely long!!!

i know, iots so annoying if i fall off something and i need to reload- go make a cup ofn tea... come back, still not done, go and watch TV... etc.
and how are you playing it? i never got below half of my ammo supply and i killed every hostile enemy i encountered. and seeing as im a perfectionist, went around looking for the ones i hadnt encountered. I make sure i havent lefet ANY quests not done... because im sad.
btw, dawdler, try using stealth. r these to guys the night templars? 1 with a flamer? if so, try going back and picking up grenades, then chuck 1 and run away fast.

 

[dawdler]

i know, iots so annoying if i fall off something and i need to reload- go make a cup ofn tea... come back, still not done, go and watch TV... etc.
and how are you playing it? i never got below half of my ammo supply and i killed every hostile enemy i encountered. and seeing as im a perfectionist, went around looking for the ones i hadnt encountered. I make sure i havent lefet ANY quests not done... because im sad.
btw, dawdler, try using stealth. r these to guys the night templars? 1 with a flamer? if so, try going back and picking up grenades, then chuck 1 and run away fast.

I kill people a little here and there
But it was the first city, now I've learned to conserve ammo a bit more.

At any rate, the game *does* improve a bit, I have to say that. Quality of graphics vary quite wildly, Seattle was a travesty compared to Cairo. BUT it still suffers from alot of fundamental flaws... Deus Ex was much much better in handling the story. IW is just confusing with missions and factions all over the place, in DX it was you, your gun and an army on your tail as you've gone rouge. I really hope IW picks up the pace again... Both Seattle and Cairo have been plain boring to run through, I completely lack motivation *why* I should do those darn factions dirty work. Levels are also very claustrophic, doesnt seem to improve there.

 

[Sui]

I kill people a little here and there
But it was the first city, now I've learned to conserve ammo a bit more.

At any rate, the game *does* improve a bit, I have to say that. Quality of graphics vary quite wildly, Seattle was a travesty compared to Cairo. BUT it still suffers from alot of fundamental flaws... Deus Ex was much much better in handling the story. IW is just confusing with missions and factions all over the place, in DX it was you, your gun and an army on your tail as you've gone rouge. I really hope IW picks up the pace again... Both Seattle and Cairo have been plain boring to run through, I completely lack motivation *why* I should do those darn factions dirty work. Levels are also very claustrophic, doesnt seem to improve there.

hehehe, ive just stopped playing IW and i must say i am brimming with exitement about the plot. But then again, i find everything exiting. thats probally one of the reasons y i love this game while others dismiss it as another failure. Trust me- the plot gets a lot bettr. mind u, i never found any of it complicated. the organisations are all suprisingly simple. i was expecting a game about conspiracies to be crammed full of confusing stuff, but there are a few companies and two organisations u can join at the start. i wouldnt really call that confusing. i wish it was, ittd be more exiting.
where i am now is the part where you start to rise above the puny factions, and they see you for your true potential. as i start to complete the gigsaw of my underestimated quest- what i was designed for - the factions can only bow down.
/me starts a truly evil laugh.
i just hope im nowhere near the end...

 

[Sulkdodds]

There's ammo all over the place - scavenge.

The thing that does slightly annoy me is when people say that DE:IW isn't an rpg, just an fps. Surely the definition of an role-playing game is playing a role - you shape your own character, right? Not story, not turn-based hack/slash combat, just making your way in a world with your own character. Final Fantasy? A good point, but I'd say that's only just an rpg because of the fact that you do shape your character(s) - if only in terms of combat ability.
So if this is what rpgs are all about, why is DE:IW not one? It's a game where you try to make headway in a dark and menacing world with a character that you yourself have shaped, not only by adding another zero to your 'shooting' stat or only carrying certain weapons, but by the choices you make. In this game, as in life, you are defined by what you do. It is the paths you take through the maze that shape what and who you are. If this doesn't make it an rpg, then the first game too is just an fps with stats.

EDIT: and what the hell are you doing to make loading times so long? On my PC (a 2.8 Barton with 512MB DDR RAM and a Radeon 9600 pro) the loading times are no longer than, say, Timesplitters 2 on the PS2. On full graphical settings (multisampling at 2, whatever that is) it loads in less than 20 seconds. Any ideas?

 

[dawdler]

One of the core parts of any true RPG is the world. There isnt one in IW, its just levels. Even KOTOR fails here, its 90% adventure and a mere 10% RPG. But true, IW does have what appears to be alot of choices...

Also the loading times ARE very long for what it load. 20 seconds? That's very long. I load the *HUGE* size BF maps in that time. But the main part is that its doing something funky too. My screen goes black, then it appears to shift resolution like 3-4 times, then a sudden white flash, then black again, THEN it starts to load the mission.

 

[Dedalus]

i...erm...kind of....well....hate IW. makes me disgusted. the story is great, everything else is such a waste. i'm glad some of you like it but seriously, it's a step backwards for the series and for Ion Storm. i wasn't expecting DX2 to be a carbon copy of DX1, but i did expect some kind of evolution into something better while still retaining elements of the original, a point which was backed up by comments from warren (liar) spector. well, i bought the game on import, wasted the best part of £40 to get it before everyone else in europe, and by god i wished i hadn't ****ing bothered.

it still runs like shit, even with all the patches and latest drivers etc. the AI is dumb, the levels are small yadda yadda yadda everyone has said it all before.

the difference between DX1 and IW, is that in IW you know you're playing a game. it's a very clumsy game and makes an exceptional effort of not trying to immerse you at all. in IW you feel like you're playing through different levels. in DX1 it felt like a whole world for me to explore. DX1 had a huge 'discovery' element to it's gameplay. there's none of that in IW, it just plays as a 'by the numbers' game. it's stupidly short as well.

www.thief3.org

no doubt we'll be having this same discussion about Thief 3..no sorry 'Thief: Deady Shadows'...

and then there's the other behemoth of a game that is System Shock 3. no doubt that'll suffer the same fate.

i've said it twice before and it still rings true:

here's to the xbox systematically lowering standards across the globe :cheers:

 

[dawdler]

the difference between DX1 and IW, is that in IW you know you're playing a game

I know the feeling... DX did what HL did, in lack of better words. An experience, not just a game. DX somehow felt connected to our world, it was *plausible* throughout the entire game. IW doesnt do that, it feels entirerly fake. And some things are just stupid. The Greys? Its not like you go "AAAAAHAAAAAHAAAAH!!!!!!", more like "Hi, you're looking grey today!". The plot is predictable, despite twisting itself up in a ball the size of a car. Nothing surprises either me or my character.

And another flaw (we could do an entire list of them, heh): OH DEAR GOD THE WALKING BACK THROUGH EMPTY LEVELS!!! Sometimes one have to load a new map 5-6 times while doing exactly *nothing*, just getting a short debriefing and travel to another destination. *Some* of the levels do indeed change, but far from all. And some are very weak attempts, here's an example:
Reactivate generator, guards spawn. Encounter one peep, which I did see at first and walked straight past (he apparently didnt see me either), cut down by a swipe in the back. Walk around a corner, see another enemy, snipe him. See him do the IW-flip-of-death (TM). That's it for the "return", no more enemies.

 

[Sui]

Suldodds, 20 seconds IS along time.
and guys, y do all of you care so much about the trivial details? its not like any of these faults werent in the origonal. it hasent taken a step back, it just leaped from one train track to another, so to speak. Its still just of immersive just with different ways of accomplising this.
I mean, what DE:IW is all about is the choices. Everyone here seemed to be expecting it to be a engrossing game with intelligent enimies and stunning visuals, but its just another game that has come out. I mean, i agree with you on all these points (visuals, phisics, character animations) but what im trying to say is just because DE:IW isnt the best game out, doesnt mean its crap.
I mean, sure, criticise its faults all you like but DE:IW has furfilled its purpose. sort of. Far cry is about the enimies/ ai, half life 2 and doom 3 are about the graphics and DE:IW is about the story and the choices. im not telling people to like this game- hell, you can spit on its grave for all i caare im just saying that so far people despise this game for a few minor faults.
I think people are expecting too mich from IW. i mean, the game doesnt offer any glass cleaning animations, but then again neither do any other games. and DE:IW is just the same as DE, really. all the faults you have mentioned (apart from the changes) were in DE, its just that i think you have been expecting too much.
I continue to love it and play it, but thats probally just because im much too layed back than u lot. i mean, i really dont care whether the animations are crap and enimies dont respawn, as long as im getting out of the game what i was expecting- engrossing story and brilliant choices- thats all i care. In fact, most of the things u have stated i never even NOTICED until i read the posts, because when i played the game i was astounded by the graphics and the atmosphere, i wasnt looking at things to notice there faults. "hey, theres no people here" never occured to me- especially as its the middle of the night and the only people out are either seekers, guards or clubbers. Who, suprisingly, are at the club.
basicly, im saying that i cant see how you guys play games. I mean, it seems like when you actually play the games ur picking up the faults and not absorbing what the games all about. I think the reasoson for this is that is probally me rather that u, because i like to play the game for what it is, not what it isnt. Meaning ur gonna be very bored untill half life 2 comes out.

and btw... notice something? DE:IW is not called DE2. this is because so many things have been altered that its not really a sequel. also notice that theif isnt called theif 3. coincidence? In other words, i think this thread is going to be repeated when theif comes out

 

[Sulkdodds]

Notice I said less than 20 seconds? I wasn't thinking straight. Personally I don't think 20 seconds is that long but it was more like 10 anyway. To me, that is an easily bearable wait.

 

[Sui]

Notice I said less than 20 seconds? I wasn't thinking straight. Personally I don't think 20 seconds is that long but it was more like 10-14 anyway.

A) the demo level is quite small and
B) after making something bold, the last tag should have a forward slash. like this= [/b ] !!!!

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

The thing is my PC, which is a tank couldn't load the levels as fast as farcry and we all know farcry is supperior in every way graphically wise and the size difference is huge!


It just appears shodily made. ;(

 

[Sulkdodds]

B) after making something bold, the last tag should have a forward slash. like this= [/b ] !!!!

I know that. People make mistakes, easily rectified with the 'edit' button within ten seconds of posting. Don't patronize me!

 

[dawdler]

and guys, y do all of you care so much about the trivial details?

You usually dont react to it (every game has at least *one* flaw, even if its just the theme). But when a game has 1000+ small flaws nagging you all the time (everything from slow engine to bad level design and poor models to "You have died. Ok?" and you have to press a damn button to continue to main menu), you tend to be bothered. Especially when its a sequel, you expect them to have *learned* something from the game before.

 

[Sui]

You usually dont react to it (every game has at least *one* flaw, even if its just the theme). But when a game has 1000+ small flaws nagging you all the time (everything from slow engine to bad level design and poor models to "You have died. Ok?" and you have to press a damn button to continue to main menu), you tend to be bothered. Especially when its a sequel, you expect them to have *learned* something from the game before.

yes, i agree it has many faults but you hardly ever bump into them and i didnt actually notice most of them when playing. but if enough people complain probally a lot of them can be patched up.
Hehehehe im on the last level so many choices... what to do? who to join who to backstab? ooohhhh, its so glad to be back to good old (spoiler)!!!! (spoiler) lookes pretty different but (spoiler) still isnt that bad, seeing as (spoiler) (spoiler) (spoiler) isnt too near the (spoiler). Thak god (spoiler) didnt eat the mayonase!!!!

 

[dawdler]

Looks... Pretty... Different??? Seriously




Yes that was sarcasm. A certain island looks absolutely *nothing* like the original, it looks like there's been a an ice age between the first and the second game (and to reach that height, I'd say a few thousand years of it). Maybe I just missed something...

Fun note: Is there any water in IW? I mean, seriously. I havent really thought about it.

 

[Sui]

Looks... Pretty... Different??? Seriously




Yes that was sarcasm. A certain island looks absolutely *nothing* like the original, it looks like there's been a an ice age between the first and the second game (and to reach that height, I'd say a few thousand years of it). Maybe I just missed something...

Fun note: Is there any water in IW? I mean, seriously. I havent really thought about it.

thats a good point... no water anywhere
and there are nanobots in the air over the certain island- ud have picked that up if u listened to the news broadcasts. Theres a storm of nanobots altering the temperature and causing a heck of damage. THATS y it looks like an iceage. And its all for a certain device....
bwahahahha...
BUHAAHAHAHAH....
BUHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!!
*cough.*

 

[Sulkdodds]

Ah ha. Ha. Ha ha. Ha....

 

[dawdler]

thats a good point... no water anywhere
and there are nanobots in the air over the certain island- ud have picked that up if u listened to the news broadcasts. Theres a storm of nanobots altering the temperature and causing a heck of damage. THATS y it looks like an iceage. And its all for a certain device....
bwahahahha...
BUHAAHAHAHAH....
BUHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!!
*cough.*

So... Why is the entire area about 2-3x as small the original? Shrunk from the cold? I know that can happen with certain other things

 

[Sui]

So... Why is the entire area about 2-3x as small the original? Shrunk from the cold? I know that can happen with certain other things

its actually bigger than liberty island. Liberty isle wasnt that big, it was when you went to other areas in new york u started to get really big locations. liberty isle was only one area in DE, in IW it is split into 3 (or more, im at the beginning of the level)

 

[dawdler]

its actually bigger than liberty island. Liberty isle wasnt that big, it was when you went to other areas in new york u started to get really big locations. liberty isle was only one area in DE, in IW it is split into 3 (or more, im at the beginning of the level)

Have you even played the original? Sure, it is more parts in IW (Illuminati area is sooooo big I got lost ), but the main area is about the size of the statue foundation in Deus Ex. It hasnt even got the same layout. The road to the old base begins immidietly after the docks, in Deus Ex it was nearly at the other end of the IW map. The foundation is completely different. The other docks area doesnt exist.

 

[Sui]

Have you even played the original? Sure, it is more parts in IW (Illuminati area is sooooo big I got lost ), but the main area is about the size of the statue foundation in Deus Ex. It hasnt even got the same layout. The road to the old base begins immidietly after the docks, in Deus Ex it was nearly at the other end of the IW map. The foundation is completely different. The other docks area doesnt exist.

ive completed DE 3 times, each different ways. I completed it ages ago, and i havent actuall played hardly any of the last level, so id have to actually play both next to each other to get a good comparison. But if my memory serves me correctly (which it hardly ever does) i remember the origonal to be quite small, apart from the huge statue, of course- which was most of the level. come to think of it, the 1 in IW does look quite small, but i thought it was just b/cause it was far away.

 

[dawdler]

ive completed DE 3 times, each different ways. I completed it ages ago, and i havent actuall played hardly any of the last level, so id have to actually play both next to each other to get a good comparison. But if my memory serves me correctly (which it hardly ever does) i remember the origonal to be quite small, apart from the huge statue, of course- which was most of the level.

If I got the time tomorrow I will install it and take some comparison pictures
Mostly for my own sake, I want to prove myself right even if I'm wrong

 

[Sui]

If I got the time tomorrow I will install it and take some comparison pictures
Mostly for my own sake, I want to prove myself right even if I'm wrong

naa, u probally r right, but im pretty sure the actual surface area of the isle is bigger.... maybe not, id need to actually play it for a while, ive played the level for about 3 mins

 

[dawdler]

Well I'm dead sure the surface area is smaller too. Think on it. The Unatco base location is sqeezed up against the dock. The dock is smaller too I think. The entire backside of the island is missing (may be the ice though, didnt look closer). As I said, the other dock is missing. The area in front of the statue with the little house was *alot* bigger in the original (and that I aint kidding, *ALOT*). Dang, I really need those pics, but I have to sleep

Edit: Also think on those bigass robots that patrolled the opposite end where you spawned (friendly). They walked a long way before turning...

 

[Dedalus]

the island is smaller than the version in Deus Ex. the only difference in IW is the docks from where you start the original game from. remember? where you meet paul and he explains a load of stuff to you and offers the GEP/crossbow/sniper? that part has been extended to encompass the Illuminati base. the sea that was around the docks in the original has been replaced by ice so thick that they could build a little base there.

a reason i thought of for the level seeming so small is that Alex D might be taller than JC. it's a thought but i haven't installed Deus Ex to double check this. the only parts i found to be even remotely like the original were..











******SPOLER********



....in the UNATCO base and in the small room at the base of the statue...




******END**********












....apart from that everything else seemed out of proportion or something..just felt awkward. maybe it's the new engine, i dunno but it definitely isn't a good representation of how the level should be proportioned. of course there's gonna be the ravages of time to contend with, but you'd expect things to be at least a little bit similar.

 

[Sui]

....apart from that everything else seemed out of proportion or something..just felt awkward. maybe it's the new engine, i dunno but it definitely isn't a good representation of how the level should be proportioned. of course there's gonna be the ravages of time to contend with, but you'd expect things to be at least a little bit similar.

aye, spoilers be below....
i agree. it just soesnt feel the same soemhow, and i dont mean that in a good way. The isleland seems rather iscolated and non-commercial. In DE it felt like NY, now it could be anywhere. i guess its coz its in the future (and because the statue is a hologram, maybe the place got bombed or something?)
*edit* ppl who have completed the game: who would u join in real life at the end? i like the idea of killing everyone, but i would probally go with JC's utopia. i would need to know more about it, really.

 

[dawdler]

Here's a pic of liberty island in Deus Ex (cant find the darn CD, bleh):
http://www.visualwalkthroughs.com/deusex/liberty1/DeusEx-2003-11-04-09-13-39-.jpg

Just about everything is different, yes...

 

[dawdler]

Finally completed the darn thing... Not very long. Sort of ended in an antiklimax too.
The only challenging part was when I had to face 4 templars at once with ammo for one rocket. There was no going around or back, I *had* to walk straight through them. Divine intervention and grenade lobbing helped me through it, heh. But seriously, without grenades, I wouldnt have been able to complete the game because:

- They dont drop ammo. Killed lots of templars before, but they are tough to take out and consume lots of ammo.
- Cant melee them. Since they take like 60% of your health when blowing up its suicide, and that is with the extra blackmarket melee EMP upgrade and max strength. I have no problem meleeing 2 MJ12 commandos.

That is just insane. One should effectivly nullify the other according to standard logic (either you can melee them and they dont drop ammo OR you cant melee them and they drop ammo), but nooooo... Brainfreeze from the devs I think :dozey:
So it was pure luck that made me able to finish the game. And when I did:
*turn on robotic voice*BLAHABLAHABLAHABLAHABLAHA*endgame quote*
Oooooooh, cinematic and epic indeed
Bleh, I should have picked the "Kill all and then commit ritual suicide on yourself and your pet" option.

Btw, the island was bigger than I originally thought (thought the eastern part was just rooms like the illumati area), but its still very much offscale compared to the original...

 

[Sui]

my m8s sleeping round so i aint played anyomeore of it yet. Will complete it tommorow, tho

 

[clarky003]

you guys sound like you know exactley what you want, Dawdler should lead the team for Deus Ex 3

..... Deus Ex : invisible errors

 

[dawdler]

you guys sound like you know exactley what you want, Dawdler should lead the team for Deus Ex 3

..... Deus Ex : invisible errors

At least they are invisible

But really, dont you agree on it? I dont care if an enemy takes your entire arsenal to bring down, but when you do you need to reammo. In IW, they leave a weapon (pointless) and that's it. The easy enemies on the other hand (ie guards), the ones you can bash down in two hits with a sword before they even see you, THEY leave ammo. Doesnt make sense at all... It works alright in levels where its mostly guards and 1-2 templars, but when you suddenly face 10 templars and 1 guard, its a completely different matter.

I'm the type of guy that likes shooting everything in sight, even if I miss. I know the AI dont react to supressive fire but at least I can *pretend* they do

 

[clarky003]

admitedly your right , they did take a beating, and the one thing I didnt like, was the universal ammo feature, that was just lazy

 

[ComradeBadger]

I just bought,played and completed DX:IW. I love it. Just like I loved the first one. They are so similar

 

[Sui]

lol i can just tell this thread is going to pick up again after the month of inactivity

 

[ComradeBadger]

Especially when Abomi gets here

 

[Axyon]

I just bought,played and completed DX:IW. I love it. Just like I loved the first one. They are so similar

That couldn't be any more incorrect. One of them is a masterpiece of gaming design and gameplay, unsurpassed in its fantastic plot telling and gameplay innovation... let's face it, it's Deus Ex. Invisible War is a shoddy attempt at a sequel that takes steps backwards in most of what were Deus Ex's best features. It's a shambles.

 

[Sui]

That couldn't be any more incorrect. One of them is a masterpiece of gaming design and gameplay, unsurpassed in its fantastic plot telling and gameplay innovation... let's face it, it's Deus Ex. Invisible War is a shoddy attempt at a sequel that takes steps backwards in most of what were Deus Ex's best features. It's a shambles.

i think you need to add at least one "in my opinion" into that vastly extreme comment. and looks like i was right.

 

[Axyon]

i think you need to add at least one "in my opinion" into that vastly extreme comment. and looks like i was right.

Well, seeming that a vast majority of gamers seem to agree with me, I didn't think an opinionated argument would be required.

 

[Sui]

Well, seeming that a vast majority of gamers seem to agree with me, I didn't think an opinionated argument would be required.

now thats untrue. just because a few people in this small forum dont like a game completely different from the name of the forum (HL2) it doesnt mean that the majority of the world agrees with you, abom.