Arab lady tells it like it is on Al-Jazeera

[SIGbastard]

Testify!

switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=214&ar=1050wmv&ak=null

 

[sadman]

very well said

 

[gick]

I cant watch it, I'm at school. Summary?

 

[Raziaar]

It seems pretty heavily anti-muslim, which is badin some degrees, but also correct in some of the things she says. Overall I agree with her, but she sure came off a little bit anti-muslim.

Still though, i'm surprised Al-Jazeera even let her thing air for as long as it did. lol.

 

[CptStern]

I cant watch it, I'm at school. Summary?

it's a video of a woman ranting about how the religion of islam = terrorism. She completely over generalizes to the point where it just devolves into hate rhetoric.

 

[VictimOfScience]

Looks like its time for another deathy fatwa...;(

Geez, people are such idiots (all around, not just her).

 

[Ome_Vince]

Super stuff!
Im not 100% for all that she's saying, (especially the science and generalizing part where she hints that all islamic countries are barbaric) but im extremely pleased its coming out of an Arabic mouth. Maybe now more will listen.

She's got a few very very strong points and examples which i hope will wake up alot of people.
And yes she's gonna get a fatwa ;(

 

[Razor]

it's a video of a woman ranting about how the religion of islam = terrorism. She completely over generalizes to the point where it just devolves into hate rhetoric.

I think it's you who have over generalised the video.

Sure there are points where she does tip towards being anti-Muslim and pro-Jew but a lot of what she said makes a lot of sense.

 

[CptStern]

you're accusing me of overgeneralizing a video that overgeneralizes an entire segment of society? Not once does she say "these radicals" or "these terrorists" ..in every instance it's "these muslims" without making any distinction between law abiding citizens and murderous terrorists. No sane person could watch that video and not walk away with a bad taste in their mouths. Had she said what she had said in canada the news media company would be charged with deseminating hate

 

[mortiz]

The funny thing is the American Government as it stands now doesn't belong in the 21st century either; they're a bunch of neo-cons that should have died out during the Cold War. They have backwards views with a regard to a lot of things, such as gay rights, abortion, stem cell research to name but a few. They feel like they can change the world so it meets some standard they've set themselves, well not everyone wants to change, and if you try to force change upon them things can go to shit very quickly, as Iraq has proved. If they don't want to change, fine, let them live in the ‘Middle-Ages’ or whatever.

 

[Ome_Vince]

you're accusing me of overgeneralizing a video that overgeneralizes an entire segment of society? Not once does she say "these radicals" or "these terrorists" ..in every instance it's "these muslims" without making any distinction between law abiding citizens and murderous terrorists. No sane person could watch that video and not walk away with a bad taste in their mouths. Had she said what she had said in canada the news media company would be charged with deseminating hate

true, in general i agree, but i think her point was that the Islam has some fundemental intollerant things which Christianity had once too. Christians turned away from that now, and Muslims "in general" are still following that path.
I do agree a better word-choice would have made the "speech" better, and less ranting, nevertheless some of her points are really good.

Btw, if it was mindless anti-muslim ranting i doubt Al Jazeera wouldnt transmit it

 

[CptStern]

chrisitianity is just as intolerant as the next religion ..there are some christian groups that openly call for the deaths of gays. Within every group there is always a radical or fringe element ...doesnt mean they're all like that

al jazeera, despite popular misconception is a valid media outlet. They report the news just like any other source

 

[Ome_Vince]

@CptStern, ofc, i oppose all generalisation, but she's attacking those "thoughts", and pointing at the community to act/oppose this kind of behavior. She generalises and puts it into words as "muslims" which is poor.

Christian radicals that want to kill gays are opposed in the west, and are a rare species-> i've only heard that kind of stuff coming from the states..
Here in Europe those kinds of thoughts are illegal. Christians today in alot of western countries are becoming less and less intollerant (with a few exceptions..). Hence i would like to see more and more islamic countries following Turkey's example instead of Iran's..

Her choice of words is poor in some cases, but her points in general valid.
Why shouldnt the governments/islamic religious orders counter this violance rather than defend it or "explain it"?
If the Vatican orders another crusade or the death of gays, what do you think will happen? They'de be banned or lose the west completely..
Hell when the pope said "dont use condoms" they got "the finger" from the west...
So why cant she demand the same from the Islamic religious orders/countries?

Even though i dont fully support it, im glad this voice came up to "counter-balance" the "other side of the debate".

 

[CptStern]

@CptStern, ofc, i oppose all generalisation, but she's attacking those "thoughts", and pointing at the community to act/oppose this kind of behavior. She generalises and puts it into words as "muslims" which is poor.

Christian radicals that want to kill gays are opposed in the west, and are a rare species-> i've only heard that kind of stuff coming from the states..
Here in Europe those kinds of thoughts are illegal. Christians today in alot of western countries are becoming less and less intollerant (with a few exceptions..). Hence i would like to see more and more islamic countries following Turkey's example instead of Iran's..

yes but why is this any different than if someone had said the same thing about christianity? Hate for homosexuals is NOT exclusive to fringe christian groups ..the catholic church has stated that homosexuality is an abonimation and unnatural. The only real difference is that no western nations are run by religion (although that line seems to be blurring in the US) therefore religious belief seldom makes its way into government policy, not so with religious states ..religious law supercedes man made law

Her choice of words is poor in some cases, but her points in general valid.
Why shouldnt the governments/islamic religious orders counter this violance rather than defend it or "explain it"?
If the Vatican orders another crusade or the death of gays, what do you think will happen? They'de be banned or lose the west completely..
Hell when the pope said "dont use condoms" they got "the finger" from the west...
So why cant she demand the same from the Islamic religious orders/countries?

Even though i dont fully support it, im glad this voice came up to "counter-balance" the "other side of the debate".

counter balance by generalizing about muslims? I'm surprised at you ..you defended your religion tooth and nail from the same sort of generalising yet somehow it doesnt apply here because they're muslim? This is not giving an oposing view, it's a rant tantamount to a declaration that muslims are backward ignorant people fixated on an old view of religion and society
..which clearly isnt the case in the majority of muslims I've met

 

[Ome_Vince]

CptStern, defended "my religion"? I defended religions as a whole from your generalisation.
Turn it around for a second. When people rant on TV on the faults of Christianity, would you be the one to step up and say "he/she is generalising all christians"?
Would you say the same as you do now?
Judging your posts in the previous religion thread, where you thought all christians hated homosexuals and assumed i did too, i'd say no, you wouldnt because you hate Christianity to the bone..
You defend critisism vs Islam by pulling in Christianity to compare. Im not interested in that comparisson, i dont want the "us" vs "them" discussion which is exactly what i oppose.
If you defend islam from these "rantings" then dont be such a hypocrit and defend Christians from "rantings" too., o wait, i forgot in that discussion YOU are that ranter..
So you and that lady look alike in a sense.. interesting.

I oppose fanatics, whether they are Christian, Muslim or Atheist i dont care.

I dont generalize muslims, i just think (like any other religion) they have problems which THEY have to solve, not "us".
And that discussion needs multiple sides some extreme, some not.
Christians work on solving their problems and i hope the muslim community + countries will work on theirs.

 

[The Monkey]

She has some good points, but most of it sounds like it came out of the Israeli propaganda machine. She claims to be non-religious, and yet she's praising Judaism and Christianity. It is true that Islam had taken a longer time to adapt to the modern world than many other religions, but to generalize the way she does is just racist.

 

[Solaris]

It is true that Islam had taken a longer time to adapt to the modern world than many other religions, but to generalize the way she does is just racist.

What modern world? Just because states arn't conforming to the demands and expectations of the west doesn't make them any less civillised.

 

[diluted]

I think she's right on a lot of points.

 

[Ome_Vince]

What modern world? Just because states arn't conforming to the demands and expectations of the west doesn't make them any less civillised.

Who said anything about comparing to "the west". Pretty soon Turkey will be part of "the west" too.
Lets not polarize here.. (lets not refere to it as "Islam" just certain parts of the world including the US for instance)
Also, i assume he meant modern world demands like "freedom of speach, equal rights to men and women, homosexuals, freedom of religion, secular states etc"
That sort of thing.
I think those "trademarks" make a country "civilised"...
Im not saying the west is all that, there's still ALOT of work that needs to be done. But nothing wrong with having these goals..

 

[K e r b e r o s]

it's a video of a woman ranting about how the religion of islam = terrorism. She completely over generalizes to the point where it just devolves into hate rhetoric.
__________________

Well, at least she's one more involved in it. I'd believe her or over at this point, Herr Stern. Needless to say however, I'm not going to judge her on how she generalizes but over what she generalizes. This has been said by numerous people like her ... frankly, I'm just glad its coming from her mouth.

What modern world? Just because states arn't conforming to the demands and expectations of the west doesn't make them any less civillised.

Oh, and by west you think that excludes Ireland? Anything West of the Middle-East, is "Western".

 

[Top Secret]

al jazeera, despite popular misconception is a valid media outlet. They report the news just like any other source

Al Jazeera and the Daily Show/Colber Repor are honestly the only two media outlets I trust. (And BBC...)

 

[CptStern]

colour me surprised :E

 

[Top Secret]

colour me surprised :E

Unlike a lot of people I don't hear "Al Jazeera" and think...

"Al Jawhatta? That one a dem' terrorist orginizationisms?"

And it's color, you stupid Canadian.

 

[>>FrEnZy<<]

What modern world? Just because states arn't conforming to the demands and expectations of the west doesn't make them any less civillised.

Love it solaris. And the 'West' i believe, is generally taken to mean nations who have embarced the ideals of modernity and liberalism that emerged and gained power around the nineteenth century.

Seriously though, what gives you the right to claim that your nation is more 'civilised' than their nations? They probably hold exactly the same beliefs about you and your nation.

 

[CptStern]

Unlike a lot of people I don't hear "Al Jazeera" and think...

"Al Jawhatta? That one a dem' terrorist orginizationisms?"

And it's color, you stupid Canadian.

colour, you illiterate yank :E

 

[OCybrManO]

We're too busy for your extra letters.

 

[Raziaar]

colour, you illiterate yank :E

We're not old fashioned like all you guys. We're newer, cutting edge! Streamlined and efficient, eliminating the waste of extra letters.

 

[Top Secret]

colour, you illiterate yank :E

I'd rather be illiterate than stupid. There is no such thing as a stupid genius, but there are illiterate genius'.

 

[CptStern]

I'd rather be illiterate than stupid. There is no such thing as a stupid genius, but there are illiterate genius'.

well then seeing as how you're typing in this forum I can rightfully say you are neither :E

 

[Top Secret]

well then seeing as how you're typing in this forum I can rightfully say you are neither :E

Correct you are. Correct you are...

 

[Pajari]

What modern world? Just because states arn't conforming to the demands and expectations of the west doesn't make them any less civillised.

Yeah dude, women's rights, free speech, voting, and democracy are tools of western neo-imperialism. Fight the power!

I saw the video a while ago, and this lady is completely correct. The Middle East is still culturally in the Middle Ages, still dominated by ignorant fascists and religious fanatics, and still mired in poverty and intellectual stagnancy completely of their own design. The interviewer doesn't make a single valid point against her, besides providing the typically fanatic response by calling her a heretic.

And the thing is, it's not Islam that's at fault. Seven hundred or so years ago, it very well may have been the Muslims looking at Europe wondering why they couldn't get their shit together. Now we're looking the opposite direction.

 

[CptStern]

Yeah dude, women's rights, free speech, voting, and democracy are tools of western neo-imperialism. Fight the power!

I saw the video a while ago, and this lady is completely correct. The Middle East is still culturally in the Middle Ages, still dominated by ignorant fascists and religious fanatics, and still mired in poverty and intellectual stagnancy completely of their own design. The interviewer doesn't make a single valid point against her, besides providing the typically fanatic response by calling her a heretic.

And the thing is, it's not Islam that's at fault. Seven hundred or so years ago, it very well may have been the Muslims looking at Europe wondering why they couldn't get their shit together. Now we're looking the opposite direction.

yes because the west is sooooo enlightened


"No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."

— President George H. W. Bush


“George Bush was not elected by a majority of the voters in the United States, he was appointed by God.” - Lt. Gen. William G. Boykin


"For the first time ever, everything is in place for the Battle of Armageddon and the Second Coming of Christ." - Ronald Reagan


"We don't have to protect the environment, the Second Coming is at hand."

- James Watt Secretary of the Interior Responsible for National Policy regarding the Environment under Reagan


"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren't punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians. That's war. And this is war." - Ann Coulter


"AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals. To oppose it would be like an Israelite jumping in the Red Sea to save one of Pharaoh's charioteers."
--Jerry Falwell


"The New York Times and Washington Post are both infested with homosexuals themselves. Just about every person down there is a homosexual or lesbian."
--Senator Jesse Helms


"The real liberators of American women were not the feminist noise-makers, they were the automobile, the supermarket, the shopping center, the dishwasher, the washer-dryer, the freezer."
--Pat Buchanan


"Evolution is a bankrupt speculative philosophy, not a scientific fact. Only a spiritually bankrupt society could ever believe it. ... Only atheists could accept this Satanic theory."
--Rev. Jimmy Swaggart


"The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say, 'You helped this (9/11) happen.' " - Jerry Falwell


"There will never be world peace until God's house and God's people are given their rightful place of leadership at the top of the world. How can there be peace when drunkards, drug dealers, communists, atheists, New Age worshipers of Satan, secular humanists, oppressive dictators, greedy moneychangers, revolutionary assassins, adulterers, and homosexuals are on top?"

-Pat Robertson


Feminism encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians.

-Pat Robertson



"Screw the Buddhists and kill the Muslims" - Henry Jordan, South Carolina board of education


more
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[The Monkey]

^ And such madness doesn't occur in the ME?

 

[CptStern]

yes but neither side is innocent now are they?

 

[VictimOfScience]

yes because the west is sooooo enlightened

Ick! The horror of those quotes!! :rolling:

But you can't say that the whole of the "west" equals right-wing religious fanatics. These few idiots are making a really bad name for America and Republicans and anyone who believes in a peaceful compassionate Religion that doesn't hate homosexuals or Muslims or Buddhists, etc. America isn't inherently evil, nor are Republicans or Christians. Its a shame these folks have to try to ruin everything!

yes but neither side is innocent now are they?

Not in the least....

 

[Gray Fox]

yes but neither side is innocent now are they?

It occurs to a degree here also, but here it is either illegal and you can voice your opinion against it, in the middle easte you can't. Thats a big ****ing differance. Plus how are those quotes supposed to be a counter against the accepted. Plus all those quotes are from people who do not have the support of the majority of people here, and yet again can still voice there opinion. While in the ME those people are supported by the majority and other people cannot voice their opinions freely.
Now the fact that you are posting those quotes, from people which you obviously think are insane and or barabaric, and the fact that people like that run the middle east shows to me that you agree with teh people who think the west is more civilized.

 

[CptStern]

Ick! The horror of those quotes!! :rolling:

But you can't say that the whole of the "west" equals right-wing religious fanatics. These few idiots are making a really bad name for America and Republicans and anyone who believes in a peaceful compassionate Religion that doesn't hate homosexuals or Muslims or Buddhists, etc. America isn't inherently evil, nor are Republicans or Christians. Its a shame these folks have to try to ruin everything!

the same can be said about muslims/middle east ..which I guess is my point


grey fox: I listed a former President, a number of politicians, religious leaders and key people in political movements ...how much more influential can you get? these quotes arent from radicals but rather by the mainstream

 

[Gray Fox]

the same can be said about muslims/middle east ..which I guess is my point


grey fox: I listed a former President, a number of politicians, religious leaders and key people in political movements ...how much more influential can you get? these quotes arent from radicals but rather by the mainstream

That kinda of thought is not prevelant in the west, as you can see by the laws, now that some people who even have invluence are idiots does not mean our civilazation is like that, they may have those ideas but they have been rejected by the majority of the people in the west and are not enforced. Now in the middle east it's the opposite. There that kind of thought is prevelant and even the rule of the law, and if you find it barabaric/dumb/viciouse then you can't honestly say your opinion of their culuture is much better.

 

[VictimOfScience]

the same can be said about muslims/middle east ..which I guess is my point

Yeah, one of my best friends is a Muslim from Islamabad and she couldn't be sweeter! Generalizations usually tend to get one in trouble.

these quotes arent from radicals but rather by the mainstream

And the mainstream flows downstream with all of the detritus and dead matter which is why I go against the mainstream in many of my own endeavors where I can. And with Pat, Jimmy, and Jerry in there, its probably exponentially filthier than the Ganges!

 

[CptStern]

That kinda of thought is not prevelant in the west, as you can see by the laws, now that some people who even have invluence are idiots does not mean our civilazation is like that, they may have those ideas but they have been rejected by the majority of the people in the west and are not enforced. Now in the middle east it's the opposite. There that kind of thought is prevelant and even the rule of the law, and if you find it barabaric/dumb/viciouse then you can't honestly say your opinion of their culuture is much better.

you cannot generalize to that extent ..Iraq for example had the most secular government in the middle east, Iran used to have a democratically elected secular government (till the US overthrew it)

...either way you slice it there are that are in positions of power who use radical ideology on both sides of the ocean. It's all relative ..a few dozen people killed in riots hardly compares to thousands killed by ordinance delivered by million dollar fighter planes ...the victems could care less which ideology they died for because the result is the same