The truth about Islam
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Atomic_Piggy
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HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA
(No offense but Mecha just took that and tore it apart!)
Tr0n
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Considering Islam is a Abrahmic religion, they have a lot in common. You know what's funny tho? Even tho in Islam and Christanity they talk about hell a lot and so on, in Judaism they rarely talk about it. It's barely even mentioned in the Torah.
Bait
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Easy to find an english translation and copy and paste, rather than study the text in it's natural language under the proper contexts.
The Qu'ran asks the readers to spend hours, days and weeks contemplating the verses and see their real meaning. But of course, copy and pasting translations gives everyone the whole picture.
The Qu'ran asks the readers to spend hours, days and weeks contemplating the verses and see their real meaning. But of course, copy and pasting translations gives everyone the whole picture.
TenaciousPLo
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So does that mean the jews are the reason for all the wars in the world?
Sulkdodds
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I'm fairly sure he wasn't attempting or claiming to give "the whole picture."
That was just to illustrate that he does not believe Islam a 'religion of peace' just as he doesn't believe basically any religion a religion of peace.
On general terms, although I don't quite share Mecha's contempt for religion in its totality, I think I agree.
That was just to illustrate that he does not believe Islam a 'religion of peace' just as he doesn't believe basically any religion a religion of peace.
On general terms, although I don't quite share Mecha's contempt for religion in its totality, I think I agree.
Bait
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My only qualm is that there is a tinge of arrogance in posting those verses as a basis for dislike against Islam. Islamic scholars are quick to say they do not understand the Qu'ran in its entirety, and these are people who dedicate their lives to the understanding and practise of the Islamic teachings. But to post these translations which were compiled in a list with the purpose of slanting a certain light on Islam is rather disheartening.
What I am saying is that tidbit, translated quotes hardly give a full idea of what Islam is meant to represent. If all the judgements are being made off of such tidbits, then you are severly shortchanging yourself.
EDIT: After a bit of thinking, I got back to Spain under muslim rule. It was really a golden age of religion where muslims, jews and christians lived in a peaceful environment. It really was an amazing time in human history and in the interaction of major religions.
What I am saying is that tidbit, translated quotes hardly give a full idea of what Islam is meant to represent. If all the judgements are being made off of such tidbits, then you are severly shortchanging yourself.
EDIT: After a bit of thinking, I got back to Spain under muslim rule. It was really a golden age of religion where muslims, jews and christians lived in a peaceful environment. It really was an amazing time in human history and in the interaction of major religions.
kirovman
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If you liked that you'll love www.thebricktestament.com
Mechagodzilla
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I'm sorry, but that's bullshit. (Not the brick testament, which is awesome. I mean Bait)
That's the word of god right there. What is so difficult to comprehend around one hundred repetitions and variations on the phrase "people who are different are inferior and deserve to be tortured forever"? Did I miss something?
Maybe I missed the several parts where it is considered okay and even encouraged to kill those who are different?
No, I listed those.
Don't assume I havn't read the qur'an. Just like most people assume I havn't read the bible either.
Of course I cut and paste. I'm not going to spend the six hours it would take to type all that redundant nonsense out by hand.
If you've got a "better understanding" of this bleedingly obvious message, I would love to hear it.
But, so far, none has been presented.
Yes, only "extremists" follow these awful rules. But the fact that they are following the rules, and following them properly, proves that the religion is violent.
We are, after all, talking about the religion here, not people.
I don't care about religious "moderates".
The only reason there is any such thing as a religious moderate is that there are religious people who have an almost functioning sense of reason, a social conscience. But those sensible people are trapped inside an undeniably violent faith. So they pervert their evil religion into something crippled and inoffensive - but no less stupid or exclusionary.
Mulims try to re-interpret the qur'an into a religion of peace. Christians try to ignore the old testament.
It's the same deal: preserving the hate-filled spiteful texts, passing them on, teaching them to children, giving them their time and money - but not actually doing what they actually say.
Religious moderates might be asymptomatic, but they still carry the disease.
If that sounds harsh, it's meant to.
A religious moderate is nothing more than a failed extremist. Not faithful enough to kill for god and not sensible enough to abandon the god that demands that they kill.
When you teach millions upon billions of people that there is an invisible man who wrote a book, and that book contains explicit instructions on how and why to kill your neighbours for rewards, someone will end up following those instructions. Countless millions have died already. And those who haven't been killed are being eliminated in their own way.
So really, what is my mistake here?
What is the "full message of islam"?
Isn't the idea that you can simply interpret the "gist" of god's word against everything the religion and its holy text stands for?
And if you take the simple, violent message from the year 3000 and convolute it into your own self-contradictory Cliff Notes for Peace 2006, how can you say you're following the "true" religion?
Why does anyone tolerate this?
That's the word of god right there. What is so difficult to comprehend around one hundred repetitions and variations on the phrase "people who are different are inferior and deserve to be tortured forever"? Did I miss something?
Maybe I missed the several parts where it is considered okay and even encouraged to kill those who are different?
No, I listed those.
Don't assume I havn't read the qur'an. Just like most people assume I havn't read the bible either.
Of course I cut and paste. I'm not going to spend the six hours it would take to type all that redundant nonsense out by hand.
If you've got a "better understanding" of this bleedingly obvious message, I would love to hear it.
But, so far, none has been presented.
Yes, only "extremists" follow these awful rules. But the fact that they are following the rules, and following them properly, proves that the religion is violent.
We are, after all, talking about the religion here, not people.
I don't care about religious "moderates".
The only reason there is any such thing as a religious moderate is that there are religious people who have an almost functioning sense of reason, a social conscience. But those sensible people are trapped inside an undeniably violent faith. So they pervert their evil religion into something crippled and inoffensive - but no less stupid or exclusionary.
Mulims try to re-interpret the qur'an into a religion of peace. Christians try to ignore the old testament.
It's the same deal: preserving the hate-filled spiteful texts, passing them on, teaching them to children, giving them their time and money - but not actually doing what they actually say.
Religious moderates might be asymptomatic, but they still carry the disease.
If that sounds harsh, it's meant to.
A religious moderate is nothing more than a failed extremist. Not faithful enough to kill for god and not sensible enough to abandon the god that demands that they kill.
When you teach millions upon billions of people that there is an invisible man who wrote a book, and that book contains explicit instructions on how and why to kill your neighbours for rewards, someone will end up following those instructions. Countless millions have died already. And those who haven't been killed are being eliminated in their own way.
So really, what is my mistake here?
What is the "full message of islam"?
Isn't the idea that you can simply interpret the "gist" of god's word against everything the religion and its holy text stands for?
And if you take the simple, violent message from the year 3000 and convolute it into your own self-contradictory Cliff Notes for Peace 2006, how can you say you're following the "true" religion?
Why does anyone tolerate this?
Black_Wolf
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nice post Mecha
TenaciousPLo
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Most people like to be comfortable with others who share the same beliefs. Whether they are denying a certain portion of their religious documents or not, some will always try to fit in. They just haven't realized most of the history behind their religion, or do and try to reform/change what they don't like, for whatever reason. It goes without saying that it still doesn't change what has happened to all the lives of the past. Some have been saved...though adding some sort of intolerance in their lives as a result of it, and alot have been killed as a result. I believe most people are too afraid to think differently in terms of religious beliefs, no matter what has been done in the past. It keeps them happy knowing they have made sense with atleast some part of their lives and that others share the same belief. This is my take on why we tolerate it.
Im so offended right now.... Mechagodzilla, how dare you post those verses??? those were never true. its translated by wrongly... the true meanings are so distorted.... sigh....
Nonbelievers are not the non muslims like Christians or the Jewish, but those who were born as Muslim and decide not to practise their religions and do sinful acts... thats what it means....
Nonbelievers are not the non muslims like Christians or the Jewish, but those who were born as Muslim and decide not to practise their religions and do sinful acts... thats what it means....
Mechagodzilla
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Perhaps you would like to elaborate on the correct translations then.
What are they?
What is the true meaning?
What part of the qur'an defines nonbelievers that way?
I am fairly certain you are just making that up.
Surely you don't mean 2:62 and 5:69?
Those verses concern only jews, and christians, and sabaeans: only believers in the god of abraham are spared.
Buddists, atheists and all others must still burn.
Those first three are spared the fury only if they "do right".
Whatever that means.
Clearly extremists have a very strong definition of what "does right."
That's a nice big loophole that happens to allow genocide in the religion of peace, isn't it?
What in the qur'an is more "right" than following the laws of the qur'an?
For clarity, here are verses 2:62 and 5:69.
Those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans - whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.
Lo! those who believe, and those who are Jews, and Sabaeans, and Christians - Whosoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.
Those verses, however, are clearly contradicted by other passages.
5:72, for example:
They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. ... Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers.
or 3:85, perhaps:
Whoso seeketh as religion other than the Surrender (to Allah) it will not be accepted from him, and he will be a loser in the Hereafter.
Specifically, killing is allowed if you are in a "holy war".
Anyone that might "harm" your faith in any way, therefore, you are allowed to destroy.
Since I have offended you, you can call that an "act of war" and legitimately slaughter me, according to the qur'an.
Even if you hadn't botched the reading - then you say only muslim children who disobey their parents should be killed and/or tortured for eternity...?
How can you say the religion is truly peaceful when all forms of conversion are outlawed under penalty of the most horrible torture?
How is that any less violent, other than in the mere number of senseless casualties?
What are they?
What is the true meaning?
What part of the qur'an defines nonbelievers that way?
I am fairly certain you are just making that up.
Surely you don't mean 2:62 and 5:69?
Those verses concern only jews, and christians, and sabaeans: only believers in the god of abraham are spared.
Buddists, atheists and all others must still burn.
Those first three are spared the fury only if they "do right".
Whatever that means.
Clearly extremists have a very strong definition of what "does right."
That's a nice big loophole that happens to allow genocide in the religion of peace, isn't it?
What in the qur'an is more "right" than following the laws of the qur'an?
For clarity, here are verses 2:62 and 5:69.
Those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans - whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.
Lo! those who believe, and those who are Jews, and Sabaeans, and Christians - Whosoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.
Those verses, however, are clearly contradicted by other passages.
5:72, for example:
They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. ... Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers.
or 3:85, perhaps:
Whoso seeketh as religion other than the Surrender (to Allah) it will not be accepted from him, and he will be a loser in the Hereafter.
Specifically, killing is allowed if you are in a "holy war".
Anyone that might "harm" your faith in any way, therefore, you are allowed to destroy.
Since I have offended you, you can call that an "act of war" and legitimately slaughter me, according to the qur'an.
Even if you hadn't botched the reading - then you say only muslim children who disobey their parents should be killed and/or tortured for eternity...?
How can you say the religion is truly peaceful when all forms of conversion are outlawed under penalty of the most horrible torture?
How is that any less violent, other than in the mere number of senseless casualties?
Black_Wolf
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"buhu...Im offended".....give me a break lol
You feel offended? lol... how cute.
Mechagodzilla
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I think it is rather indisputable that islam is in fact not a religion of peace, but one that is equally militant and dangerous as the other abrahamic religions.
What sort of peaceful religion contains vague clauses that allow some genocide in certain undefined circumstances?
If you persist in reading the book incorrectly and adding your own meanings where none exist, you are the muslim who "decides not to practise his religion and does sinful acts".
In the case of hneaz, he decided to remove the bit that says only believers in allah/yaweh/jehovah are almost human enough to spare torment.
For every other religion on the planet, plus the atheists and agnostics, it is your duty to fight them.
Christians and jews are allowed to exist only as subservients.
What sort of peaceful religion contains vague clauses that allow some genocide in certain undefined circumstances?
If you persist in reading the book incorrectly and adding your own meanings where none exist, you are the muslim who "decides not to practise his religion and does sinful acts".
In the case of hneaz, he decided to remove the bit that says only believers in allah/yaweh/jehovah are almost human enough to spare torment.
For every other religion on the planet, plus the atheists and agnostics, it is your duty to fight them.
Christians and jews are allowed to exist only as subservients.
Mechagodzilla
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Judging by the bible, hell is a place filled with everyone who isn't a genocidal evengelical christian.
If it were real, I would assume it's a lot like Earth.
If it were real, I would assume it's a lot like Earth.
