Avatar: FernGully 2: Pocahontas Dances With Smurfs In Space In 3D On Ice

I should have anticipated that plenty of people would be like, "Oh, you know, it's long, the bad guy is a pretty flat and boring character, and the story is predictable, but it has nice special effects, so it gets a 9/10". Way to like style over substance, KoreanNumbers. You're almost as bad as HotNumbers.

15357 said:
I guess it appeals to the immature - the bad vs the good thingy, but I have to say, it is mankind that is good, and the xenos that must be purged.
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I hope you're talking about the movie, because in RealLife(tm), Mankind is far from good.
 
Shakermaker said:
That is not the point. I'd start by spoilering the ending you gave away.
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Done. But seriously, you can't tell me that I've spoiled anything important in the movie. You prolly knew that would be the ending, it's hollywood, for christ's sake.

Yorick said:
I should have anticipated that plenty of people would be like, "Oh, you know, it's long, the bad guy is a pretty flat and boring character, and the story is predictable, but it has nice special effects, so it gets a 9/10". Way to like style over substance, KoreanNumbers. You're almost as bad as HotNumbers.
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I liked long. Also, if the bad guy had much more substance, I'd be more sympathetic to him than to the main character, which might make for some bad storytelling. I wasn't seeing the movie directly, but the world it portrays. It is awesome.

I hope you're talking about the movie, because in RealLife(tm), Mankind is far from good.
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Heathen!
 
15357 said:
Avatar - 9/10

If I had my way, the ending would have looked like this:
The exploitative corporate powers wipe out the entire Na'vi resistance, via high altitude bombing runs and VX gas. Along with napalm. Lots and lots of napalm. Jack Sully is arrested and tried for multiple counts of first degree murder, sabotage, destruction of private property, dessertion, treason, and finally beastiality. He is found guilty of all charges.

The Na'vi are then rounded up in reservations where tourists from Earth can stare at them. The mining operation is a complete success, and humanity ushers in a new era of prosperity, ready to fight and annihiliate the next sentient alien race for the glory of mankind, in a war for dominance of the universe.

To add certain new things: "Get some!" was actually nicely done. Albeit overdone.

The ending was very..... distressing. I could see that many people in the theatre were disturbed by the sight of mankind's warriors defeated and shattered - much like in Starcraft: Broodwar.
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I honestly don't know what to believe. I've known you long enough through the forum to know that you are very very pro-government to point where you're almost fascist, but if anyone else said this it would be considered trolling.

So....are you trolling? Is this for real? I'm confused.
 
Sparta said:
I honestly don't know what to believe. I've known you long enough through the forum to know that you are very very pro-government to point where you're almost fascist, but if anyone else said this it would be considered trolling.

So....are you trolling? Is this for real? I'm confused.
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What are you talking about? We're talking about corporations, not governments. Besides, I like the general idea of Warhammer 40K - Long Live Humanity.

Also, I don't get it. How would this be considered trolling?
 
Yorick said:
I should have anticipated that plenty of people would be like, "Oh, you know, it's long, the bad guy is a pretty flat and boring character, and the story is predictable, but it has nice special effects, so it gets a 9/10".
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Its downfalls hardly make it a bad movie though. Along with Star Trek, it's easily one of the most entertaining movies I've seen in a while. The gorgeous effects added greatly to that.
 
15357 said:
The ending was very..... distressing. I could see that many people in the theatre were disturbed by the sight of mankind's warriors defeated and shattered - much like in Starcraft: Broodwar.
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I don't know how serious you are being.
 
Sedako said:
Its downfalls hardly make it a bad movie though. Along with Star Trek, it's easily one of the most entertaining movies I've seen in a while. The gorgeous effects added greatly to that.
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I'm not saying downfalls make it a bad movie. I'm saying a 9/10 ranking is a near-perfect film. Such noticeable and plentiful problems don't really coincide with that.
 
NO! It's a perfect film and anyone who disagrees doesn't know goddamn anything. I refuse to accept any other truth.
 
Ok, geez, guys I'm sorry. I dunno what I've done but I certainly made some people mad. :(

Samon said:
I don't know how serious you are being.
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I'm never serious enough to make whatever I said a problem. :p
 
I finally saw it last night. I'm not sure what to rate it. Firstly, it is absolutely gorgeous. As Hitler said in his review of the Avatar trailer, he wanted his eyeballs to be f***ed. My eyeballs were f***ed. Visuals get a 9/10. Honest to God, see this film in cinemas.

The story itself... meh. I'm not bashing it. Just... meh. It served its part. 4.5/10

Also, a personal nitpick that maybe one of you guys could answer: How the hell were those rocks floating!? Did it have something to do with the Unobtainium? What was the Unobtainium? What did it do? It would have helped us understand why the hell the humans were there in the first place.

P.S.: Numbers, I don't care what anyone else, I would totally go see the film you just described.
I'm confused why the Colonel did not use a high-altitude Dresden-style firebombing on the target, but perhaps he was concerned the floating rocks would intercept some of the raining fire. If it makes you feel better, the humans, if they have half a brain between them, will return in twelve years and nuke the entire site from orbit.
 
The rocks were never explained, they're not even trying to hide the fact that was there just for the effects >_>
 
I would like to further add that for me the best part of the entire film by far was when
Colonel Quaritch's mech drew a knife. He's carrying a knife? Holy shit, dude! That was like something straight out of WH40K. Awesome.
 
I thought WTF at that bit. Seriously who designs that?!
 
I bet you Col. Quaritch played Warhammer 40,000: Eighty-Ninth Edition as a child, and he personally requested it for his mech.
 
I'm going to see it in 3D on Tuesday. Very excited, considering the non-3D version was still spectacular.
 
io9 wrote an interested editorial about this movie and District 9, asking:
When Will White People Stop Making Movies Like "Avatar"?

The writer brings up some really good points about how racial guilt and redemption is projected into the story of both movies.

In both Avatar and District 9, humans are the cause of alien oppression and distress. Then, a white man who was one of the oppressors switches sides at the last minute, assimilating into the alien culture and becoming its savior. This is also the basic story of Dune, where a member of the white royalty flees his posh palace on the planet Dune to become leader of the worm-riding native Fremen (the worm-riding rite of passage has an analog in Avatar, where Jake proves his manhood by riding a giant bird). An interesting tweak on this story can be seen in 1980s flick Enemy Mine, where a white man (Dennis Quaid) and the alien he's been battling (Louis Gossett Jr.) are stranded on a hostile planet together for years. Eventually they become best friends, and when the alien dies, the human raises the alien's child as his own. When humans arrive on the planet and try to enslave the alien child, he lays down his life to rescue it. His loyalties to an alien have become stronger than to his own species.

These are movies about white guilt. Our main white characters realize that they are complicit in a system which is destroying aliens, AKA people of color - their cultures, their habitats, and their populations. The whites realize this when they begin to assimilate into the "alien" cultures and see things from a new perspective. To purge their overwhelming sense of guilt, they switch sides, become "race traitors," and fight against their old comrades. But then they go beyond assimilation and become leaders of the people they once oppressed. This is the essence of the white guilt fantasy, laid bare. It's not just a wish to be absolved of the crimes whites have committed against people of color; it's not just a wish to join the side of moral justice in battle. It's a wish to lead people of color from the inside rather than from the (oppressive, white) outside.
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I've read that article. The series on Avatar io9 has been writing are all pretty interesting.
 
lame-o said:
really miccynarc? i thought the dialogue sucked and i knew pretty much every plot point in the story about 10 minutes into the movie. I didn't really think about anything during the entire movie except "wow that looks cool" or "he has scars on his face" or "humans are dicks". ****ING SEXY VISUALS THOUGH, THEREFORE 10/10 IN MY BOOKS.
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Wow man, I used to like you, but now it seems like you're trying to akwardly elbow your way into the snobbish and pretentious asshole club.
 
It's very easy to read into issues of race, even when they're not actually there.

Which is it? Is it an allegory for the White Man™ and his burden regarding the noble savage? Is it about environmentalism? Or is it simply just big robots fighting blue cat people?

The writing sounds smart, but I'm not really convinced by any of it.

Corp. Sheepo said:
Wow man, I used to like you, but now it seems like you're trying to akwardly elbow your way into the snobbish and pretentious asshole club.
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Seems like it gets new members every day on this ****ing board.
 
AHA-Lambda said:
The rocks were never explained, they're not even trying to hide the fact that was there just for the effects >_>
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That unobtanium is a naturally occurring room temperature super-conductor, so it's floating due to magnetic levitation.

Anyway, Avatar is truly amazing, exactly my kind of movie. Pure escapism sci-fi with unprecedently detailed world.
Jim did it.
 
so cliche, it was terrible.

people are confusing amazing cinematics/action to a great story line. These 2 certainly did not go hand in hand.


This movie = every possible 80's 90's movie/tv cliche's.
 
Just got back from a showing.

I went into this movie with low expectations. I wasn't expecting much, except for some purdy visuals, and even that I wasn't sure about. And the first 20 or so minutes really gave me some bad vibes. But after that, it was... amazing. I really, really enjoyed it. The story is fine. I don't know why people are crapping themselves over this. So the story has been done before. So what. So has (nearly) everything else. This movie is nothing more than a summer blockbuster that was released in winter. Its a great action flick, lots of good visuals, (mostly) great characters, and its well executed. The only character I found to be lame was the Colonel. Very stereotypical military bad guy. Oh, and the administrator guy. He was spouting the worst lines of all. Other than that, it was a great movie.
Polaris said:
Jim did it.
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Yes he did.
 
Polaris said:
An excellent movie that he promised us he would make.
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Oh I thought you were talking about the whole "revolutionary" bollocks that all the hype spouted.

Carry on then. Nothing to see here.

David.Seth.2 said:
The story is fine. I don't know why people are crapping themselves over this. So the story has been done before. So what. So has (nearly) everything else.
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Before I say this, I just want to reiterate that I enjoyed the film a lot and want to see it again. But the qualms people have with the films story/storytelling are totally valid.

The story is the only truly original part of a film. It's the screenwriters job to bring originality to the screen. Everything that comes after the script is finished, is an interpretation of the script. The directing, the acting, the special effects, the production design, they are all interpretive artists. The screenwriter is the only original one. So why should it be ok for a screenwriter, particularly one of James Cameron's caliber and prestige, to cut and copy such a specific story like this that has been done at least a dozen times in the past two decades alone? Sure, he's done it well, but that shouldn't make him or his film immune from criticism.
 
Sparta said:
The story is the only truly original part of a film. It's the screenwriters job to bring originality to the screen. Everything that comes after the script is finished, is an interpretation of the script. The directing, the acting, the special effects, the production design, they are all interpretive artists. The screenwriter is the only original one. So why should it be ok for a screenwriter, particularly one of James Cameron's caliber and prestige, to cut and copy such a specific story like this that has been done at least a dozen times in the past two decades alone? Sure, he's done it well, but that shouldn't make him or his film immune from criticism.
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Theres nothing wrong with that at all. It just seems that many people are stuck on this group mentality that "oh the story sucks/isn't original and writes off the entire film. Its a movie with giant blue cat people for ****s sake. Not that I'm seeing much of that kind of sheep following in the thread specifically, but just around the net from a lot of people. There are some people who didn't like it and actually go into great detail about it. I may not agree, but at least they explain why the story didn't work for them.

I will say this about the end (which some may have already touched on):
So the humans are sent back home in shame, and the blue peoples are triumphant. But whats stopping from a crap load of reinforcements coming back in a few years time? Or, at the very least, a few nukes?
 
I give it an 8/10. It's not as memorable as Aliens, Abyss, or Terminator 2. Still it was very enjoyable, despite it's unoriginal story. The way the Avatar world is shown on screen, just really pulls you in. And that's mainly what I was expecting from this movie. Just an entertaining 3d action movie that really makes you escape.
 
I saw it in 3D the other day (Though sadly the only seats left were very front and centre, some of the 3D just didn't work at that harsh angle).

I guess it's not really a thinking man's movie, something to get really baked and just look at for two hours and forty minutes (Which is luckily how I did it)

There were a couple of things that confused me a bit, I probably just missed a minor detail or whatever that explained it - for example during the last fight:

(Guess I'll spoiler it?)

When what's-her-face is flying around shooting through to the cockpits of the Scorpions with arrows, when beforehand arrows were useless against the glass.

Jacksully fires at the Colonel's ship at one point when he's giving orders to the pilot, you see holes enter the glass and whatnot yet they didn't seem to be scrambling for their gas masks, and said glass is fine later.

I loved watching the terribly-cheesy-yet-awesome colonel, though.

Like when he just boots open that thick steel door (As the protagonists are fleeing in "I'm Probably From Brooklyn" Pilot's ship), holds his breath while everyone is freaking out about gas, and just starts pumping rounds into the aforementioned ship.

I've forgotten, like, everyone's names but Sully's ('cause that's a nickname for a d00d I know). :(
 
Danimal said:
When what's-her-face is flying around shooting through to the cockpits of the Scorpions with arrows, when beforehand arrows were useless against the glass.

Jacksully fires at the Colonel's ship at one point when he's giving orders to the pilot, you see holes enter the glass and whatnot yet they didn't seem to be scrambling for their gas masks, and said glass is fine later.
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I wondered about that a little too, but

I think it was the trajectory and close range during flight that made the arrows more effective than when the tribe was firing from the ground.

as for the second part... Yeah, was probably a goof
 
Danimal said:
I loved watching the terribly-cheesy-yet-awesome colonel, though.

Like when he just boots open that thick steel door (As the protagonists are fleeing in "I'm Probably From Brooklyn" Pilot's ship), holds his breath while everyone is freaking out about gas, and just starts pumping rounds into the aforementioned ship.

I've forgotten, like, everyone's names but Sully's ('cause that's a nickname for a d00d I know). :(
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Favorite character in the whole movie. :D
 
AHA-Lambda said:
The rocks were never explained, they're not even trying to hide the fact that was there just for the effects >_>
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It's because they're full of unobtanium, a highly magnetic room temperature superconductor - so they can float in the moon's magnetic field.

David.Seth2 said:
So the humans are sent back home in shame, and the blue peoples are triumphant. But whats stopping from a crap load of reinforcements coming back in a few years time? Or, at the very least, a few nukes?
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This was explained in the early 'scriptment' I read, was it cut from the film? Maybe they plan a sequel.
The Pandora threatened to create viruses that would wipe out humanity if they ever returned.
 
Yeah, that actually explains why Unobtainium would be so valuable. If they had told us that and detailed the benefits such a substance would have provided for humanity, it would have made the humans a lot less monolithically evil.

Also, what do you guys not get about
Quaritch running outside? Everyone else is a pussy, and so they'll start screaming about, "Oh, we'll suffocate in thirty seconds". Col. Quaritch, on the other hand, is a badass motherf***er who can hold his breath as long as he deems it necessary. He breathes oxygen for pleasure, not necessity. :afro:
 
AHA-Lambda said:
i don't remember that bit :|
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It was mentioned in the movie for 3 seconds or so, while explaining what the grey rock is.

Thunderclap said:
Yeah, that actually explains why Unobtainium would be so valuable. If they had told us that and detailed the benefits such a substance would have provided for humanity, it would have made the humans a lot less monolithically evil.
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Exactly, I read that "between the lines", and therefore were more sympathetic to the humans.

Or I have the brain of an Imperial Commissar.

Also, what do you guys not get about
Quaritch running outside? Everyone else is a pussy, and so they'll start screaming about, "Oh, we'll suffocate in thirty seconds". Col. Quaritch, on the other hand, is a badass motherf***er who can hold his breath as long as he deems it necessary. He breathes oxygen for pleasure, not necessity. :afro:
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When I grow up (unfortunately, it's a bit too late), I want to be just like him. :smoking:
 
Arrows vs. glass:
The arrows were going through the cockpit glass presumably because they were going substantially faster, as they were fired while flying at high speed and at closer range
 
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