Bad things are happening at EA then...

[Gargantou]

BioShock 2's looking to be more open-ended than BioShock 1, all reviews are positive so far, that's good.

I know off-topic but I just had to say it. Sorry.

 

[Paskiewicz]

Forsaken

Indeed. I might play that one. =3

 

[theotherguy]

The reason for the fall in stock prices is obvious: the market crash of 2008, and the subsequent recession. I can hardly see how mismanagement is to blame. Game sales are down across the board. However, EA, like the rest of the industry, is going to need to do something either really innovative or really underhanded to make a profit.

 

[Barnz]

open-ended? did you even read the preview? you can't go back to previous levels...bioshock 2 is going to be far worse than bioshock.

 

[the cow says moo]

I enjoyed bioshock.


...Thought my opinion might matter.

 

[VirusType2]

The reason for the fall in stock prices is obvious: the market crash of 2008, and the subsequent recession. I can hardly see how mismanagement is to blame. Game sales are down across the board.

Not really:
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source...g+recession&aq=f&aqi=&oq=&fp=df82d86320cf60e9

http://www.t3.com/feature/call-of-duty-modern-warfare-2-sales-top-$1bn

 

[Sedako]

Arf, read the link. Spiritual Successor, although it's a hack phrase, =/ 'update'. Yeah, they borrowed a lot, but I'm not sure you could argue that Bioshock wasn't its own world.

Maybe you should read more than just the first two paragraphs of the link:

BioShock takes place in a mysterious genetic laboratory. Other than that the complex is strewn with corpses (also for reasons unknown), nothing is clear to you. From what you can tell, the laboratory complex is apparently a holdover from World War II--you'll see remnants of the war as well as peeling paint throughout the complex. Something apparently happened back then that caused the complex to be abandoned by whoever was using it. In fact, the complex has only recently come back into use by the scientists circa the early 21st century, and advanced, top-secret contraptions used for arcane biotechnology experiments have been hastily bolted into the rotting walls of the complex.

You'll explore the complex from a first-person perspective, similar to System Shock 2 or Deus Ex, and you'll find it inhabited by three primary "castes" of creatures, which Irrational is currently referring to as "drones," "predators," and "soldiers"--creatures that might once have been human. We were shown a few concept images of creatures that were part human, part monster. Exactly how these creatures came to be this way isn't clear, but Irrational has suggested that some of them are actually fused with human anatomy: human lungs are grafted onto their bodies to breathe, and the human arm dangling off to the side can still hold and fire a gun.

Even the original concept art screams SS2:

 

[jondy]

Maybe you should read more than just the first two paragraphs of the link:

What you wanted from the game was something they never promised. Although they drew a lot from SS2, the ideological bent always meant it was going to be its own project. As far as I can see (and of course I might have missed something), they never had 'update SS2' as their endgame.

 

[63]

However, EA, like the rest of the industry, is going to need to do something either really innovative or really underhanded to make a profit.

Innovation rarely brings in the money (short term at least)...

 

[Sedako]

Ok, so it wasn't flat out promised, but I challenge you to argue that it wasn't implied. They were riding on the excellence of SS2 with that phrase, and those of us who wanted more took the bait.

 

[Wanted Bob]

edit:

That's the thing I really don't get though. What incredible amount of praise? There's been bucketloads of valid criticism of these titles, some honest, middling reviews. Few people have made the claim that these games are excellent. At best they've been 'highly significant'.

Both have metacritic scores above 90, so I consider that to be incredible praise. Perhaps I should have added that hype also affects this, and not just reviews.

 

[jverne]

Bioshock is a dumbed down spiritual successor of SS2 intended for wider markets. Do you disagree?

 

[Gargantou]

Bioshock is a dumbed down spiritual successor of SS2 intended for wider markets. Do you disagree?

System Shock 2 was a dumbed down sequel to SS1 intended for wider markets.

Honestly, it was, System Shock 1 was far more open-ended(and thus unforgiving because it was easy to **** up with wasting too much ammo etc and going to the wrong section at the wrong time) than SS2 was.

 

[kupocake]

Bioshock is a dumbed down spiritual successor of SS2 intended for wider markets. Do you disagree?

System Shock 2 had a hive minded alien race created by a rouge artificial intelligence. Bioshock had a moustached non-villain spouting Ayn Rand. Yes, it wasn't as big or clever as it thought it was, but there's a degree of rose-tinting you need in order to see System Shock 2 pulling less punches, or to suggest that it was somehow exempt from being criticised for the cliches it left sore-arsed at the service station.

Honestly, it was, System Shock 1 was far more open-ended(and thus unforgiving because it was easy to **** up with wasting too much ammo etc and going to the wrong section at the wrong time) than SS2 was.

I'm going to content myself with the one playthrough of Shock 1, but I bow to those who have completed the difficulty level 3 version of the game. The one with the wacky time-limit.

Anyone else take the FPS-standard view that 'use key = good things' and end the game prematurely by nuking earth themselves? That was always classy

 

[Absinthe]

System Shock 2 was a dumbed down sequel to SS1 intended for wider markets.

Oh snap, I see how you turned the tables on that one.

High five! Show these goons what wankers they really are.

 

[unozero]

bioschock is a fun game that's all it needs to be.

 

[TwwIX]

That's what you get for trying to build a monopoly. Quantity over quality is bound to bite you back in the ass sooner or later. They have become a fast food chain of video game developers. They have taken over several game franchises and dumbed their games down considerably. We have seen some improvements from them over the last 2-3 years. Games such as Dead Space, Mirror's Edge and Burnout Paradise. Quality games which i was shocked to see come from a EA studio. That still doesn't change the fact that the rest of their games still follow the same cookie cutter design of the past. They should put their money toward more ambitious and riskier projects instead of pumping out the same Madden's and Need for Speed's every ****ing year.

 

[VirusType2]

Bioshock is worth a playthrough at the least. A quality game. Especially at $10 or whatever it costs these days. I got it in late 2007 for about $20 (and finally have a computer that can play it proper)

 

[jverne]

System Shock 2 was a dumbed down sequel to SS1 intended for wider markets.

Honestly, it was, System Shock 1 was far more open-ended(and thus unforgiving because it was easy to **** up with wasting too much ammo etc and going to the wrong section at the wrong time) than SS2 was.

It's no secret gamer back then were way more hardcore than now. I'm not ashamed at all.

And you have to acknowledge that alot of early games had difficult parts just for the sake of not being too monotone. Making problems logical is what really matters.
I'm willing to accept a certain level of simplification...and todays games are a bit too much for my taste. If you like them, enjoy.
You've won, since i almost don't play games anymore. I've done maybe 3 of 4 commercial games in the past 5 years.

 

[MFL]

Descent

is

a

great game

AND THIS IS WHY WE NEED PEOPLE TO INVEST IN THE NEW INTERPLAY GOD DAMN IT.

Also for a Sacrifice sequel. Oh god, that game was like a ball of pure orgasm revolving around my senses.

 

[Paskiewicz]

And FreeSpace too. :'C

 

[Gargantou]

It's no secret gamer back then were way more hardcore than now. I'm not ashamed at all.

And you have to acknowledge that alot of early games had difficult parts just for the sake of not being too monotone. Making problems logical is what really matters.
I'm willing to accept a certain level of simplification...and todays games are a bit too much for my taste. If you like them, enjoy.
You've won, since i almost don't play games anymore. I've done maybe 3 of 4 commercial games in the past 5 years.

IMO System Shock 1 had quite logical puzzles and was in a sense one of the friendliest first-person games ever made, since you can using the ingame difficulty options DISABLE enemies and puzzles all together.

Anyway, I love all three of the Shock games, System Shock 1, System Shock 2, BioShock.

And to be honest, System Shock 2 was probably my fav, I just wanted to stick out from the crowd.

But SS1 was amazing given that it came out in 1994, and SS1 was indeed the most open-ended of the three, and according to the reviews of BioShock 2, it's far more open-ended than BioShock 1, so I'm hoping for the best!

That's what I loved about System Shock 1, feeling like you were in fact exploring a huge space station at your pace without a lot of boundaries hindering you from where to go, you could end up going the completely wrong direction of where you needed to go to advance the story if you weren't careful, that kinda lack of handholding is something I can miss in modern game design.

 

[Tagaziel]

System Shock 2 was a dumbed down sequel to SS1 intended for wider markets.

Honestly, it was, System Shock 1 was far more open-ended(and thus unforgiving because it was easy to **** up with wasting too much ammo etc and going to the wrong section at the wrong time) than SS2 was.

HAHAHA, no.

Seriously, did you play either lately? SS2 expands on the formula of SS1 and the gameplay flows better. Better balanced weapons (and actual requirements to use them exist), body armour instead of the eponymous shield plug-in, psionics, better survival mechanisms (I never had problems with ammunition in SS1, in fact, I took a Magnum 2100 to the cameras at a certain point. In SS2, I counted every single bullet, especially considering that the AR can chew through them like a hungry Mike through a spaghetti bowl), less campy monsters, better horror atmosphere...

Seriously, think before you post.

 

[Gargantou]

AND THIS IS WHY WE NEED PEOPLE TO INVEST IN THE NEW INTERPLAY GOD DAMN IT.

Also for a Sacrifice sequel. Oh god, that game was like a ball of pure orgasm revolving around my senses.

How so? Interplay didn't develop Descent, the company now known as "Volition" did, they're owned by THQ.

There is no-one at Interplay these days that worked on the Descent games.

 

[TheOneFreeMan]

That's what you get for trying to build a monopoly. Quantity over quality is bound to bite you back in the ass sooner or later. They have become a fast food chain of video game developers. They have taken over several game franchises and dumbed their games down considerably. We have seen some improvements from them over the last 2-3 years. Games such as Dead Space, Mirror's Edge and Burnout Paradise. Quality games which i was shocked to see come from a EA studio. That still doesn't change the fact that the rest of their games still follow the same cookie cutter design of the past. They should put their money toward more ambitious and riskier projects instead of pumping out the same Madden's and Need for Speed's every ****ing year.

Those same Madden's and Need for Speeds which they pump out every year are what gives them the financial security to produce risky games. If a normal company went out on a limb on innovation over everything else, they would probably go out of business, because good and innovative games don't always sell well.

Don't hate them for putting out cash cows ... it's giving them the security to give us games like the Mass Effect trilogy and Dead Space.

 

[Paulaner]

Don't hate them for putting out cash cows ... it's giving them the security to give us games like the Mass Effect trilogy and Dead Space.

And Dragon Age, Command & Conquer, Red Alert, Mirror's Edge. EA is also retail distributor for all Valve games. We are talking about real quality here.

 

[TwwIX]

Those same Madden's and Need for Speeds which they pump out every year are what gives them the financial security to produce risky games. If a normal company went out on a limb on innovation over everything else, they would probably go out of business, because good and innovative games don't always sell well.

Don't hate them for putting out cash cows ... it's giving them the security to give us games like the Mass Effect trilogy and Dead Space.

Not anymore, from the looks of it. Even people with ADD eventually catch on.

The Mass Effect trilogy was under development long before EA acquired Bioware.
The first game wasn't even published by them. Risk? What Risk? They saw Bioware as another cash cow and bought them out. A cash cow that actually churns out quality milk for a change. Bioware has been successful since the day it was formed. EA hardly deserves any of the credit. If anything, they'll be responsible for the demise of Bioware. All that requires is for one of their games to not meet EA's sales expectations. Either the core devs will leave or they completely close the studio. No? Just give it some time.

 

[MJ12]

I'm well into SS2 for the first time, and it is indeed a great game.

However, as I play it, I continually roll my eyes at SS2 fanboys who never bother to mention the big flaws of the game, while they continue with their hard on of hate for Bioshock; Why? Because they're pretty goddamn different games. No, really, they are very different.
The commonalities between the two are so incredibly diluted: you've got hypos, you've got the ability to use magical powers, you've got a villain who leads you to destroy another villain, you've got recorded voice logs, and you've got humans that are crazy.
-It's a pretty general allegory.

Aside from the fact that the people who made it said it was the spiritual successor, (obviously didn't meet the expectations) Bioshock is still a good game.
Furthermore, what I am most surprised about is how Dead Space is much more of a rip off from System Shock 2, yet I never hear anyone complain about that.


Oh, we are all so off topic....

 

[kupocake]

Hold up just a second. I think I've made a startlingly moronically obvious realisation that I've nonetheless seen nowhere else. (Edit: That I see after googling has been made a thousand times over, but probably isn't common knowledge anyway)

On January 9, 2006, GameSpot reported that Electronic Arts had renewed its trademark protection on the System Shock name,[61] leading to speculation that System Shock 3 might be under development.[62] Three days later, Computer and Video Games reported a reliable source had come forward and confirmed the title's production. Electronic Arts UK made no comment when confronted with the information.[63] PC Gamer UK expanded these rumors further, stating the team behind The Godfather was charged with its creation. Link

Developer of the Godfather? EA Redwood Shores. Now Visceral Games. Developers of the Dead Space series.

Dead Space is like System Shock 2 in the same way that Project Snowblind is like Deus Ex. The similarities are possibly relics of a stage when it was an expansion of that IP.

 

[Paulaner]

Why? Because they're pretty goddamn different games. No, really, they are very different.

Totally agreed. If I was an artist, painter, writer, composer or game developer, I would try very hard to make different, unique things. To find new ways. To be unpredictable. The comparison between Bioshock and SS2 is meaningless, in my humble opinion.

 

[Barnz]

zombieturtle01 doesn't know any shit about ss2.

 

[kupocake]

zombieturtle01 doesn't know any shit about ss2.

Of course he doesn't. If he hasn't yet completed it, he doesn't know half of how crap the last third is.

 

[jondy]

Dead Space is like System Shock 2 in the same way that Project Snowblind is like Deus Ex. The similarities are possibly relics of a stage when it was an expansion of that IP.

Wow, good catch. That's pretty cool.

 

[kupocake]

Apparently it's something denied by earlier development diaries. I smell a Kimba the White Lion though

 

[MJ12]

zombieturtle01 doesn't know any shit about ss2.

I'm well through deck 5; unless they suddenly throw in a Vincent Price character talking like he just wrote an essay on Ayn Rand, I know enough.

 

[jimbo118]

Yeah, so, staying on-topic and all...

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/lasky-ea-is-in-the-wrong-business_2

EA is in the wrong business, with the wrong cost structure and the wrong team, but somehow they seem to think that it is going to be a smooth, two-year transition from packaged goods to digital. Think again," wrote Lasky on his blog.

"EA's sports business has been hamstrung by vastly increased licensing costs and failure to transition to a subscription/variable pricing model. This has substantially reduced the profitability of a business that EA used to rely on to fund other, riskier bets."

"It's been a very ugly scene, indeed. From Spore, to Dead Space, to Mirror's Edge, to Need for Speed: Undercover, it's been one expensive commercial disappointment for EA Games after another.

"Not to mention the shut-down of Pandemic, half of the justification for EA's $850m acquisition of BioWare-Pandemic. And don't think that Dante's Inferno, or Knights of the Old Republic, is going to make it all better. It's a bankrupt strategy

"Don't believe this is the end of the bleeding," added Lasky, who noted that the company could be ripe for takeover, even going so far as to drag up the long-rumoured Disney acquisition talk.

"With EA's enterprise value down below $4 billion, it's remarkable that nobody has stepped in to put them out of their misery with an acquisition. Certainly, Disney has been looking at them since I was at the house of the mouse back in the early nineties. And there are Chinese companies, like TenCent, that could easily swallow EA whole."

He added: "It's equally amazing that the board continues to support the existing management team through this debacle."

 

[kupocake]

Yeah, back a few pages I mentioned that guy and forgot link it. He's just doing what an ousted executive with an industry analysis blog will always do. Talking the same shit that put him out of favour in the first place.

 

[MJ12]

Disney

 

[kupocake]

Disney

 

[Tollbooth Willie]

Dead Space was a commercial disappointment?