Bethesda to announce new game Nov1st: Fallout3?

[Adrik_Senturu]

And to all of you saying "Get over it, it's gonna be changed", how would you react, if Valve had financial problems, sold the Half-Life licence to id Software and Half-Life: Episode Three would feature a Pamelyx Vancerson, Barney was a gay lover of Eli, who in turn would be a black gangsta with chains and stuff and Judith mysteriously changed her sex and became Julian? And the Combine was replaced by yellow aliens with rayguns from Mars? Huh? I can imagine how you would go batshit insane. This is exactly what happened to Fallout, with FOT and FO:BOS. If Bethesda wants our support, then they should do it the hard way, like Fallout 1 was done (of course with a new engine, but wrapped around SPECIAL), with dialogue trees, not some stupid minigames or wiki-style convos, immersive world, intricate plot and retrofuture stylization. Of course, that would require them to aim higher than the lowest common denominer.

I'd deal with it and get on with my life.

Plus you can make any game sound like complete crap with the way you just explained it. I didn't know id only made games for white rich gangsta kids :|

You know what? I hope they completely change fallout, and that its referred to as Game of the year by every major gaming publication and wins tons of awards

 

[venturon]

You know what? I hope they completely change fallout, and that its referred to as Game of the year by every major gaming publication and wins tons of awards

Yeah and then, like Oblivion, we can forget about it a month later because it's a shallow piece of shit.

 

[Adrik_Senturu]

Yeah and then, like Oblivion, we can forget about it a month later because it's a shallow piece of shit.

Not only that, but they'll release really cheap 2-5 dollar addons for us to get It'll be great.

(Btw, even though Oblivion doesnt live up to say Morrowind, its side quests are what really make the game and make it far from the shallow piece of shit your referring too. That being said I was still disapointed with it, but life goes on)

 

[VictimOfScience]

I wish that Fallout is on a highly-tweaked version of the Infinity Engine.*




*Yes, I know that is impossible, but that is what I would ideally like. :E

 

[Tagaziel]

Adrik, hasn't it occured to you, that Bethesda Softworks is using you and other kcRPG (kiddy computer Roll Playing Games) players as an endless money spring? AND you are completely Oblivious (pun intended) to this...

Valve on the other hand, has released periodical updates and patches for free, just like all companies did until now. It's because of LtI kids, who don't remember, how good games used to be, and are attracted by SHINY things (eg. Oblivion graphics).

Also, a bit off-topic, I lament the death of mature games. Sure, some are still coming out, but not in the quantities and quality they used to. Fallout, Planescape: Torment, Homeworld, Interstate '76, Blade Runner, Command & Conquer (especially when playing the Nod storyline), Max Paynes, Battlezone, System Shocks, Deus Ex...

Nothing but OMGSHINY graphics and shallow plot and gameplay, aimed at kids (e.g. Oblivion), save for a few I'm looking forward to (Portal, HL2:EP2, BioShock and C&C3).

 

[Adrik_Senturu]

Adrik, hasn't it occured to you, that Bethesda Softworks is using you and other kcRPG (kiddy computer Roll Playing Games) players as an endless money spring? AND you are completely Oblivious (pun intended) to this...

Valve on the other hand, has released periodical updates and patches for free, just like all companies did until now. It's because of LtI kids, who don't remember, how good games used to be, and are attracted by SHINY things (eg. Oblivion graphics).

Also, a bit off-topic, I lament the death of mature games. Sure, some are still coming out, but not in the quantities and quality they used to. Fallout, Planescape: Torment, Homeworld, Interstate '76, Blade Runner, Command & Conquer (especially when playing the Nod storyline), Max Paynes, Battlezone, System Shocks, Deus Ex...

Nothing but OMGSHINY graphics and shallow plot and gameplay, aimed at kids (e.g. Oblivion), save for a few I'm looking forward to (Portal, HL2:EP2, BioShock and C&C3).

So because I happen to like oblivion all I like are OMGSHINY graphics? I was hyped for oblivion not because of its lol shiny graphics, but because of the games that came before it :| Unfortunately it didn't live up to my expectations, but its by no means a bad game. You seem to have some kind of grudge against Bethesda. Like I said, I hope they change the game completely. I hope it gets OMGSHINEYGRAPHICSLOL, becomes an FPS and the story is completely scrapped in favor of space gerbils.

 

[Tagaziel]

I don't have agrudge with Bethesda, I have concerns over the quality of Fallout 3. And your poor excuse for a flame/troll is useless when thrown at me. I have used you, pardon me, to illustrate a point - anyone willing to pay ANYTHING for something that should be free (eg. the booster packs for Oblivion) should be educated, as to how things were beforehand. It doesn't matter if you pay for them regularly, or not, the notion of "cheap" booster packs is enough.

And if this is the future of Fallout, I'd rather see him resting peacefully, rather than dead-walking.

 

[Adrik_Senturu]

Who said I paid anything for the addon packs? (I torrented them )

I was joking around when I mentioned the whole cheap booster packs thing for Fallout. So you have concerns for Fallout 3, well so does any fan of a game thats going to get a sequel. Anyway im gonna stop because I already won the bet I had with my friend. I've never actually played Fallout 1 or 2 (although I've heard great things I never got around to it) this was just to guage your reaction. Hope they don't mess up your game :| (Well actually I do because you people are way too obsessed over this and need to take off your fallout pajamas and go outside or something).

 

[Krynn72]

God damn, this argument is still going on? Mikael you are the perfect stereotype of a fanboy. Your game is the best and every other game fails in comparison. Oblivion was a damn good game. I stopped playing it after awhile but thats because I put like 80 hours into it already. It was a good game, and you just hate it because it got popular. You make ridiculous statements about it (like anyone who likes it is a "kid"). Seriously, you need to get a life and stop taking your games so ****ing seriously.

I liked the fallout games too, all of them. However, if I ever saw you in real life arguing like this I would just leave the area because of the uber geekiness presented around you. Just relax, they are going to change the game, there is nothing you can do about it, it happens all the time. If you still feel the need to complain, email Bethesda where it might do some good.

Ok, say what you will to me now, because I wont come back. Hopefully this thread gets locked because its topic is now completely off the original poster's intents.

 

[Fliko]

God damn, this argument is still going on? Mikael you are the perfect stereotype of a fanboy. Your game is the best and every other game fails in comparison. Oblivion was a damn good game. I stopped playing it after awhile but thats because I put like 80 hours into it already. It was a good game, and you just hate it because it got popular. You make ridiculous statements about it (like anyone who likes it is a "kid"). Seriously, you need to get a life and stop taking your games so ****ing seriously.

I liked the fallout games too, all of them. However, if I ever saw you in real life arguing like this I would just leave the area because of the uber geekiness presented around you. Just relax, they are going to change the game, there is nothing you can do about it, it happens all the time. If you still feel the need to complain, email Bethesda where it might do some good.

Ok, say what you will to me now, because I wont come back. Hopefully this thread gets locked because its topic is now completely off the original poster's intents.

QFMT
Quoted for major truth

People make money off games, and quite frankly, most of the money from sales goes into another game.

They spend 1-2 years developing it, you beat it in 10 hours. While, $60 a game is expensive for us, considering the time put into it, it is one hell steal of a deal.

Mikael, why should they spend time into something that they don't get paid for? Thats probably the essence of why they made booster packs.

 

[Infoceptor]

Ok, this is what i'm getting from Grizzly.

There is nothing wrong with getting paid for something you do, however, if it is a complete piece of crap, then it should not deserve that money. The main problem comes when people buy said piece of crap and therefore, the company will continue churning crap out. The ultimate success of ANY game depends on the # of sales, period. If alot of people buy a game, then it is a success.

Do i agree? I never played any of the Fallout games. However, i found it highly distasteful of Bestheda to release their horse mods when it (imo) was clearly not worth the price. I don't know how many people bought the mods but those that did are pretty much encouraging the industry to become lazier.

I've seen too many games ruined this way. I've seen too many people continue to support bad games/sequels/companies. The funniest part is that after Gamer X buys something and moans and bitches about all the bugs/problems, they automatically buy the next sequel or expansion. You are essentially casting a ballot when you buy something. Please, please, please be selective in what you buy. It will make games better as a whole.

 

[Tagaziel]

Infoceptor, you're my man!

Also, why am I bitching about paind booster packs? Because *everything* that's in them should have been put in game BEFORE it was released. If Valve doesn't have to charge us for patches/tuning/upgrades/whatever to games we ALREADY PAID FOR, then it means that Bethesda is RIPPING IT'S BUYERS OFF.

And Fliko, your argument is void, because Falllout 2 WAS developed in a year (released 1998, one year after Fallout (1997)) AND was a two-times larger game, with an upgraded SPECIAL system, mostly logical expansion to the storyline and new setting details, eg. Vault City, the Enclave, Sierra Army Depot, etc. This PROVES, that you don't have to concentrate on OMFGSHINY graphics and still make a fantastic game. Finishing Fallout 2 can take anywhere from one hour to sixty and more. THIS is non-linear gaming. And guess what? Since the game was complete, they didn't have to release any booster packs, because they did a good job at it, and got paid for it.
Also, it seems you don't understand the concept of employment. The programmers and designers of those booster packs are regular employees, and get paid regularly, regardless of the sales.

And Krynn misunderstood me. I have my doubts about Fallout 3 and it's quality, when it's in the hands of Bethesda. It mainly stems from the fact, that Fallout 1 and 2 provided a coherent, detailed presentaqtion of Fallout's style, gameplay, storyline and immersion. However, it's more than likely that Bethesda's going to take a dump all over the Fallout fanbase, which has been there ever since the first Fallout was released, precisely due to the fact Oblivion sold, and is a clear message "Hack'n'slash Action games with stats and speech minigames sell, while mature, highly detailed and developed games don't.". Fallout was an RPG down to the G, and still excells in my personal RPG ratings, followed by Planescape: Torment, Wasteland and Fallout 2.

Also, Krynn, since I do believe that curiosity will make you return, Bethesda censores it's Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion for negative comments about Oblivion (Summer rings any bells?). Given this, there is no point in mailing Bethesda, only to get an automated response.

Yes, I'm aware that they can change the game. Van Buren/Fallout 3 also changed the game, down right to it's mechanic, but we didn't uproar, simply bacause J.E. Sawyer KNEW what he was doing. Bethesda most likely DOES NOT. Therefore, we, as a fanbase, can complain, and WANT to be proven wrong.

Okay, I'll put it in caps for those reading imapired:

Ehem.

I WANT TO BE PROVEN WRONG, AND GET A FALLOUT 3 FROM BETHESDA SOFTWORKS THAT IS A WORTHY, LOGICAL AND IMMERSIVE CONTINUATION OF FALLOUT 1 AND FALLOUT 2, AND *NOT* OBLIVION WITH GUNS!

Thank you.

 

[Cerpin]

I WANT TO BE PROVEN WRONG, AND GET A FALLOUT 3 FROM BETHESDA SOFTWORKS THAT IS A WORTHY, LOGICAL AND IMMERSIVE CONTINUATION OF FALLOUT 1 AND FALLOUT 2, AND *NOT* OBLIVION WITH GUNS!

That quote gained you a lot of respect from me, and I wholeheartedly agree.

 

[Asknoone]

I love this thread.

 

[Shadow-warrior]

I'm totally with you Mikael.

Games thesedays are heading towards a generic soup of looking and playing all the same and its essential that some things, in this case the style and gameplay of Fallout, are retained.
The world has not moved on so much in the last 10 years that a Fallout 3 (in the style of 1 and 2) would not work and developers have to realise this.

I have no doubt Bethesda will give us Oblivion with guns, because after the hack job they made with Oblivion its obvious they don't have ability or even the staff to make a deep RPG anymore. As of now I wouldn't even trust them to make me a cup of tea.

The ray of hope is that eventually when photoreal graphics/havok/speedtree/hdr are the norm developers will have to start being inventive again and actually go back to making games with depth.

 

[CptStern]

some of you guys need to get your heads out of your ass ..what company would spend 10's of millions of dollars just to appeal to a small segment of the huying public? ..why do any of you think Oblivion made it's way to consoles at all? hardcore rpgs are dead ...get used to it or just play text based rpgs because that's as close as you're going to get

 

[Gargantou]

why do any of you think Oblivion made it's way to consoles at all?

Because Morrowind sold better on the XB1 than on the PC, honest.

 

[CptStern]

yes that's my point

 

[VictimOfScience]

Yup, and that's why game shops are devoting almost their entire stores to console gaming. PC games usually have one little standalone shelf in the back somewhere. Console gaming is where the money is, that's all.

 

[Tagaziel]

Therefore, Bethesda has two options:

Either make a Fallout game true to the setting etc. and create standards for console RPGs, like Fallout has set for PC RPGs.

Or, they can go dorward and dumb down Fallout, so that kiddies playing it on consoles won't have to bother themselves with tough decisions or understanding the plot.

 

[VictimOfScience]

Therefore, Bethesda has two options:

Either make a Fallout game true to the setting etc. and create standards for console RPGs, like Fallout has set for PC RPGs.

Or, they can go dorward and dumb down Fallout, so that kiddies playing it on consoles won't have to bother themselves with tough decisions or understanding the plot.

There were those who already tried to dumb down the Fallout series for consoles and the results were shitacular.

The answer? Bethesda makes a kick-ass PC game then ports it to the consoles, hopefully in a way that doesn't affect its PC development as happened with some parts of Oblivion.

 

[Tagaziel]

VOS, that's what I would want them to do, but have serious doubts about. Of course I may be pleasantly surprised, but until I am proven wrong, I assume I'm right, bacause there are no indications, that they know what to do.

 

[Gargantou]

I doubt Fallout would set a new standard for console RPGs anyway, Fallout 1 didn't really set a new standard either imo, but it certainly influenced a few RPGs in terms of style etc I don't think you can really say it set a new standard.. But to each man his own I guess.
And still on the topic of Fallout, how many of you have played Wasteland? That game rocked

 

[CptStern]

Therefore, Bethesda has two options:

Either make a Fallout game true to the setting etc. and create standards for console RPGs, like Fallout has set for PC RPGs.

Or, they can go dorward and dumb down Fallout, so that kiddies playing it on consoles won't have to bother themselves with tough decisions or understanding the plot.

but that appeals to a wider audience = more sales ...regretful but that's the state of the industry ..pc games are just a niche market now and it's not worth investing millions unless you're sure of a large enough audience so that you dont lose your shirt in the process ..we can bitch and moan all we want but the reality is that the majority of pc gamers dont give two shits about quality ...it's graphics over gameplay every time ..they'd much rather buy the next iteration of the battlefield series than give games that perhaps push the envelope a chance


anyone surprised by the console-fication of Oblivion really needs to pay more attention to the industry ..saw that coming from a country mile and I've never played any of the elder scrolls series

 

[Tagaziel]

Bitching is important. It's a means to express your dissatisfaction, and be vocal about it. Also, I doubt the PC is a niche market, seeing how many millions are invested and in circulation, not to mention that Half-Lives are manufactured first for PCs and then ported.

Also, I hope that as the current kiddie gamers mature, they might just realize the wrong of their ways and start bitching like us.

And for one thing... people who were bitching in the past were behind the greatest events... Alexander the Great propably bitched about Macedony being the underdog of ancient Greece. The French people bitched about inequality and brought about the French Revolution. We bitch now and maybe, just, maybe, we can make a difference.

Oh, I played Wasteland... especially I loved the old installation... and the sound of metal on metal grinding in the darkness... fellow Ranger

 

[CptStern]

Bitching is important. It's a means to express your dissatisfaction, and be vocal about it. Also, I doubt the PC is a niche market, seeing how many millions are invested and in circulation,

in comparison to the console market yes we are ..just take a look on any major gaming site, walk into any gaming store, and it's the same scenario: pc market is shrinking whereas the console market is growing ...Half life is the exception certainly not the rule

not to mention that Half-Lives are manufactured first for PCs and then ported.

only because Valve wants it that way ..do you really think MS would have allowed Steam to be the distribution method for a console version of HL2 had it been the main platform?

Also, I hope that as the current kiddie gamers mature, they might just realize the wrong of their ways and start bitching like us.

probably not, I've been playing games for close to 2 decades ..if anything games are becoming more watered down and less appealing to anyone looking for something with depth ..of course there are the exceptions but they rarely sell as much as the next iteration of Madden or ghost recon etc

actually ghost recon is a prefect example of the consolefication of gaming ..it started as strategic ..now it's pretty mcu run and gun with pretty explosions

And for one thing... people who were bitching in the past were behind the greatest events... Alexander the Great propably bitched about Macedony being the underdog of ancient Greece. The French people bitched about inequality and brought about the French Revolution. We bitch now and maybe, just, maybe, we can make a difference.

I highly doubt it ..you seem to forget that many pc gamers are also console gamers ..besides gamers have no voice whatsoever ..we couldnt muster up enough of a voice to combat Jack thompson I dont see how we could collectively turn gaming on it's ear ..wishful thinking but in depth complex gaming with steep learning curves is all but dead ..the market is already a gamble why make it more risky but appealing to a limited share of that audience? ...the genre (crpg) will survive ..as a niche market ..if and when a developer/publisher is willing to take a gamble


btw are you getting Gothic 3?

 

[Tagaziel]

After the next upgrade, yes. My brother is a Gothic fanboy, I'm "just" a fan.

I agree with your post, though what put me off was the "ass->head" comment. But I'm optimistic - sooner or later the market will be full of repetitive titles, and to be succesful, a breakthrough would have to be made - in this case, a return to the roots.

Also, in my opinion consoles won't be as succesful as PCs are in the longer run (20 years, maybe?), since PCs are much more versatile, and can support truly better graphics than most console titles (consoles either cheat the eye, or limit the gaming environment, while PCs posess much more room for expansion. There was a nice quote - when working on a console, you have to consider adding a tree, and it's impact on the framerate. On PC you can slap a whole forest there.

Also, the market is not that bleak, as it seems. Several promising titles came/will come out: Bioshock, Half-Life 2: Episode Two, Defcon, Portal, Tiberium Wars (though with some reserve), Gothic 3... as long as we have independent developers, and educate younger gamers, we might stand a chance...

 

[Warbie]

anyone surprised by the console-fication of Oblivion really needs to pay more attention to the industry ..saw that coming from a country mile and I've never played any of the elder scrolls series

I tend to agree, but feel too much fuss has been made over Oblivion. I've enjoyed the game for what it is (I resent being called a kiddy gamer btw, Grizzly), and don't feel it's been dumbed downed in comparison to previous titles in the series. Much of this ill favour exists purely because it appeared on the 360. I'd happily bet that had Oblivion been a pc exclusive it would have been better received around here. More a case of Halo syndrome than 'consolized'.

I also want a return to games like Planescape Torment and Baldur's Gate as much as anyone. For what seems like years i've been singing their praises and moaning about the current state of pc gaming - and am often accused of being a console fanboy as a result. The truth is i'm a pc gamer at heart, but a disgruntled one (why else do I hang around here with you mofos? )

We have to accept that the next Fallout will be a new take on the series, though, and Bethesda are going to make it as they see fitt, which is as it should be. As soon as a developer tries to emulate the efforts of another the end product will always be a crock. Stick to the setting/plot/story if possible, but always do your own thing.

Just as Shadow of the Colossus and Bioshock are spiritual successors to Ico and System Shock, it might be better thinking of Fallout 3 as Fallout with a new slant. The die hard fans won't be happy, but let's face it, they'll be moaning over any difference.

 

[CptStern]

After the next upgrade, yes. My brother is a Gothic fanboy, I'm "just" a fan.

I agree with your post, though what put me off was the "ass->head" comment.

well I just thought some people were being a little narrow minded and need a kick in the ass ..no offense meant

But I'm optimistic - sooner or later the market will be full of repetitive titles, and to be succesful, a breakthrough would have to be made - in this case, a return to the roots.

the market is already saturated with repetative titles ..and they're the ones that sell the most ..Madden is what? on it's 10th incarnation? Call of Duty 2 sold more than any other game for xbox360 ..it also had the most sales in terms of micrtransactions ..now that game can be purchased for pc for less money and with the same or better visuals ..yet many pc gamers ignored the game ..while it had huge success on the 360

Also, in my opinion consoles won't be as succesful as PCs are in the longer run (20 years, maybe?), since PCs are much more versatile,

not really fair because a pc's sole reason for being isnt for playing games...consoles have already surpassed pc games in terms of sales ..and even traditional companies are moving away from pc development and focusing on console games ..hell even the DS lite gets more attention than the pc ..games are far cheaper to produce therefore there's a much larger profit margin ..plus they can churn them out in much less time ...same goes with console games: cheaper, easier, already installed base = more profit

the biggest problem is the growth of the industry itself ..if they want to expand their audience they need to appeal to casual/first time gamers

and can support truly better graphics than most console titles (consoles either cheat the eye, or limit the gaming environment, while PCs posess much more room for expansion. There was a nice quote - when working on a console, you have to consider adding a tree, and it's impact on the framerate. On PC you can slap a whole forest there.

yes but providing your audience has the latest greatest gear ..not everyone has a top of the line graphics card ..most pcs have onboard video cards ..that cuts off most casual gamers right there ..why spend an additional $300 on a video card when you could just buy a 360 and not have to worry whether 6 months down the road the latest greatest pc game wont run on your system?


btw I'm mostly playing Devil's advocate here ..I prefer pc over console anyday much for the reasons you've stated ..but I'm not going to fool myself into thinking mature, intelligent gaming is going to go mainstream ..not when the bulk of the hardcore pc community is more concerned about graphics than gameplay

Also, the market is not that bleak, as it seems. Several promising titles came/will come out: Bioshock, Half-Life 2: Episode Two, Defcon, Portal, Tiberium Wars (though with some reserve), Gothic 3... as long as we have independent developers, and educate younger gamers, we might stand a chance...

all niche titles that will appeal to specific types of gamers ..there's no way Bioshock will outsell Call of Duty 2 ..even though it seems to be head and shoulders above CoD2 in terms of creativity/innovative

oh and Halflife2 was a failure on the xbox ..it sold peanuts in comparison to the pc version

 

[mortiz]

The market for good RPG's isn't dead, developers are simply neglecting to tap into it. There's no hiding the fact that good CRPG's are a difficult thing to accomplish. Developers now feel that if they can't release some "Wikid kewl!!" screenshots that'll get pasted all over the internets and in gaming magazines their game will not sell. Rubbish. They need the proper marketing for their game but there is a market out there looking for CRPG's to play. Most developers are simply to lazy to invest a lot of time and energy into a CRPG when the returns probably won't exceed that of "Another War Game CXIVX". The gaming industry at large has become more about business and less about artistic integrity. Independent Development is where it's at, which is one area the PC excels over all of the major consoles, it's very easy to get your own team together and develop your vision on a PC, not so on a console through a combination of expensive dev kits and restrictions the console makers put on games sold.

 

[CptStern]

independents cant compete with $10 million dollar budgets (that's actually low end)

 

[Max35]

I'm sure Valve is the exception to that rule.

 

[Shadow-warrior]

independents cant compete with $10 million dollar budgets (that's actually low end)

Thing is, most of that '$10' million is spent on flashy graphics, fancy voice overs, speedtree/havok licenses and all the other irrelevant crap that adds nothing to a decent RPG.

Good stories and deep interesting games cost next to nothing to make in comparison and developers need to understand theres still a huge market of mature gamers out there who want more than the superficial. People who grew up on computer games in the 80s and 90s are still there.

Question is, is it really the consumer who is demanding this pointless shiny graphics/hdr/havok/speedtree crap or is it the developers pushing it on us because they know it takes less effort than actually making a deep game.

 

[mortiz]

independents cant compete with $10 million dollar budgets (that's actually low end)

With services like STEAM they nearly can. The only issue in the past with independent development was distribution. With the increase in broadband speeds and the like online distribution is becoming a real outlet for independent developers.

 

[CptStern]

but they still dont have the $10 million budget ..if they did they might be less inclined to gamble that on a game that has limited appeal

I'm interested in seeing unit sales on steam ..specifically for games like psychonauts which did poorly at retail

 

[Max35]

Correction, successful independant developers have this type of budget. However, this certain type of developer is slowly becoming extinct.

 

[CptStern]

no, few developers pony up the cash for development ..that's what publishers are for

 

[DeusExMachina]

I think it's pretty fair to say great games rarely ever sell well. Psychonauts being a good example.

 

[Max35]

no, few developers pony up the cash for development ..that's what publishers are for

I meant successful **independant** developers, my mistake. Valve, for example. And yeah, I know what publishers are for.

 

[CptStern]

hehe Valve is the only example ..and even they needed EA to distribute HL2 at retail ..part of each unit sale went to EA