gweedodogg69
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we never saw the explosion, just a flash in the copter or w/e.
iMMuNiTy said:Bullshit thread!
Kid, Black Mesa has been nuked to a crater. All what's left of it are pebbles. You're thinking up stuff just to save your ass.
First, I'm not a kid. Secondly, it seems your the one with the juvenile perception. Look at some of the trends other Game Developers have set. Doom 3 reinvented some of the story in areas to suit it's needs. Max Payne 2 re-introduced a character once thought dead (a bullet through the brain, YET she was still alive). I'm sure I could find many other instances if I really tried. Resurrecting characters or places in a story once thought extinct happens in books all the time.
Do I necessarily want Black Mesa to return?. I'm not all that particular about it. Is it possible since its a video game and developers have the right to change the story as they see fit/visions change, yeah. If you can quote something from Marc LaidLaw saying "Black Mesa will never return, EVER", then yeah I'll accept that. Otherwise, no. I really don't feel the need to prove my point anymore.
pomegranate
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Max35 said:
Yeah, the Doom series, that franchise noted for it's complicated, involved story. :rolling: Good comparision.
Yes, and it's a horrid, embarrassing cliche that most people would expect Valve and Laidlaw would be horrified to consider. Whilst Valve could choose to return to Black Mesa, there's a thousand far better things they could do in sequels. They always aim above the bar, and for the simple reason that a return to BM is the sort of lazy thing other franchises would resort to, they won't do it. They might toss the idea around, but it won't happen.Max35 said:
pomegranate said:
I also used Max Payne as a comparison, which IMO has a very decent story. Like I said its possible, I'm not saying I want it to happen. Oh, and BTW Sulk your just a meanie, that's right I said it!.
:sniper: Sulk
*sticks tongue out*
iMMuNiTy
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Max35, very bad comparisons there. Max Payne 1 & 2 are surreal, you slow down time, you wield dual weapons and are a one man army. Ressurecting a dead character is part of it. Half-Life 2 is movie-like, realistic physics and graphics prove it that. While a guess would satisfy Max Payne fans, Half-Life 2 storyline will always be realistic and won't bend reality limits. Remember, teleporting has been theoretically proved.
Oh and Doom 3 storyline was the worst storyline I ever saw.
Oh and Doom 3 storyline was the worst storyline I ever saw.
iMMuNiTy said:
Comparing a video game to reality, alright then. When that reality can change due to the developer's wishes. I said it was possible, the chances of it of happening are extremely slim close to none. There are many creative paths towards bringing extinct places and people back to life. Perhaps Gordon re-visits BM in a dream?. Is that so out of reality?. And I'm sure there are countless other ways to re-visit BM. Its just not apparent to the occasional observer.
Edit: For future reference, I'm not ignoring the obvious I don't believe Black Mesa will be a focal point in any future HL title. Unless its somehow done cleverly. I think the interactive dream sequence or flashback as Gordon wakes up from stasis isn't too unrealisitc. And I said there were workarounds, the other examples I gave were poor admittedly.
iMMuNiTy
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Black Mesa couldn't be implemented as the main storyline, unless mentioned in a totally different story.
Plot misfit. Gordon Freeman was hired by G-Man. Quote from G-Man (thanks to kupoartist, as I got this info from his site):
<...>The biggest embarrassment has been the Black Mesa facility but I think that's finally taken care of itself."
The Screen whites out. The Black Op's "package" has exploded, wiping the Facility off the map.
"Quite so."
Meaning that G-Man won't send us to Black Mesa, as he was the one who introduced the nuke go off, and state that BM was an embarrasment finally taken care of. Sending Gordon to a crater would break the current plot.
Mission Objectives...none Okay, now let's see what could we do in Black Mesa. Seriously. Of course we'd play as someone else; not as Gordon, obviously. Say, a pre-war scene. A small marine squad is sent to investigate the blast. After all, nukes must be approved by higher authorities. They (squad) arrive at the location of the blast. How would they enter it? Okay, suppose they found a small shaft or vent (which is rather impossible, but to satisfy you, let 'em find it). After entering Black Mesa, the player has to:
- Avoid radiation on every corner.
- Must end the game in a limited given time due to his oxygen tank
- Keep changing the batteries of his flashlight, i.e. must keep it on all the time. Think DooM 3.
- Fight a few bullsquids which appear rather rarely.
- Die at the end of the game. Surviving in a nuked Black Mesa would be too heroish and Gordonish. Debris (slightest sneeze and you're dead) + radiation + lack of oxygen.
Say, just when your radio seems to begin working, you catch a distress signal. You can't make out what is it. But the player knows what happened. 7-hour war.
Gameplay.So you'd have a standart issue pistol and a M4A1 or a similar rifle. No ammo throughout the game, only as much as you can carry. Then again, there won't be many enemies. So you'll be lucky enough to encounter bullsquid(s) each half an hour. Oxygen tanks aren't limitless, you'll be able to stick around for no more than 2 hours. Since Black Mesa is nuked, don't count on finding health packs, ammo, flashlight batteries or anything to fill your tank up. And most of Health Chargers have been used up by Barney, Gordon, and Adrian (?). That is, if they are still working after the humongous blast. Mainly you're going to have to find detours to debris, then a detour to detour.. Until you find your destination (checkpoint, say), radio in, and repeat. The episode (obviouslynot a full game) wouldn't be sucessful and/or popular amongst gamers.
Comparisons.I don't understand why you chose DooM 3. I can barely feel I even play a Singe-Player game when I got my hands on D3. The storyline was very weak. Now Max Payne 1 & 2 is worth mentioning, rather good storyline there. Now you say Mona was killed in Max Payne 1 and makes an appearance in Max Payne 2. It was already planned at the end of Max Payne 1 and when scripting Max Payne 2 that Mona would make a return. Mona will return in Max Payne 3, too. Why did they ressurected her? 3 reasons.
1. Adds romance to the storyline. They could make another woman appear, obviously, but :
2. The fact that Mona "returns from the dead" adds a mystic, surreal feeling to the game.
3. She fits into the plot perfectly.
That was the first hint that she survived.
Plot misfit. Gordon Freeman was hired by G-Man. Quote from G-Man (thanks to kupoartist, as I got this info from his site):
<...>The biggest embarrassment has been the Black Mesa facility but I think that's finally taken care of itself."
The Screen whites out. The Black Op's "package" has exploded, wiping the Facility off the map.
"Quite so."
Meaning that G-Man won't send us to Black Mesa, as he was the one who introduced the nuke go off, and state that BM was an embarrasment finally taken care of. Sending Gordon to a crater would break the current plot.
Mission Objectives...none Okay, now let's see what could we do in Black Mesa. Seriously. Of course we'd play as someone else; not as Gordon, obviously. Say, a pre-war scene. A small marine squad is sent to investigate the blast. After all, nukes must be approved by higher authorities. They (squad) arrive at the location of the blast. How would they enter it? Okay, suppose they found a small shaft or vent (which is rather impossible, but to satisfy you, let 'em find it). After entering Black Mesa, the player has to:
- Avoid radiation on every corner.
- Must end the game in a limited given time due to his oxygen tank
- Keep changing the batteries of his flashlight, i.e. must keep it on all the time. Think DooM 3.
- Fight a few bullsquids which appear rather rarely.
- Die at the end of the game. Surviving in a nuked Black Mesa would be too heroish and Gordonish. Debris (slightest sneeze and you're dead) + radiation + lack of oxygen.
Say, just when your radio seems to begin working, you catch a distress signal. You can't make out what is it. But the player knows what happened. 7-hour war.
Gameplay.So you'd have a standart issue pistol and a M4A1 or a similar rifle. No ammo throughout the game, only as much as you can carry. Then again, there won't be many enemies. So you'll be lucky enough to encounter bullsquid(s) each half an hour. Oxygen tanks aren't limitless, you'll be able to stick around for no more than 2 hours. Since Black Mesa is nuked, don't count on finding health packs, ammo, flashlight batteries or anything to fill your tank up. And most of Health Chargers have been used up by Barney, Gordon, and Adrian (?). That is, if they are still working after the humongous blast. Mainly you're going to have to find detours to debris, then a detour to detour.. Until you find your destination (checkpoint, say), radio in, and repeat. The episode (obviouslynot a full game) wouldn't be sucessful and/or popular amongst gamers.
Comparisons.I don't understand why you chose DooM 3. I can barely feel I even play a Singe-Player game when I got my hands on D3. The storyline was very weak. Now Max Payne 1 & 2 is worth mentioning, rather good storyline there. Now you say Mona was killed in Max Payne 1 and makes an appearance in Max Payne 2. It was already planned at the end of Max Payne 1 and when scripting Max Payne 2 that Mona would make a return. Mona will return in Max Payne 3, too. Why did they ressurected her? 3 reasons.
1. Adds romance to the storyline. They could make another woman appear, obviously, but :
2. The fact that Mona "returns from the dead" adds a mystic, surreal feeling to the game.
3. She fits into the plot perfectly.
We didn't see her lie, bleeding on the floor, an agent walk up and finish his clip of Desert Eagle into her, while you were being held by other agents. Instead, she was shot "presumably" to the head, and after the elevator doors re-opened, she was gone.
Okay, I see your point on that. Going to the Black Mesa crater wouldn't do much for the storyline, or even possible. I knew that from the beginning, but was suggesting various workarounds that were slightly more realisitc than that. But the interactive dream sequence I mentioned earlier would be feasible, correct?.
Also, I think you misread my post, I said I didn't think BM could *ever* be part of the main story, but rather a side-trip through Gordon's psyche. Or maybe something else.
Also, I think you misread my post, I said I didn't think BM could *ever* be part of the main story, but rather a side-trip through Gordon's psyche. Or maybe something else.
iMMuNiTy said:Yeah. So all we have to do is to wait an EP about Gordon having a dream, in which he is returning to the nuked Black Mesa! Can't wait.
Ok, case solved.
*head explodes*
Just to clear things up, I meant having a dream of past memories of BM, like the test chamber sequence or something.
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M
MAN OF FILTH
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mabey we could follow through with a time warp. that sends us back to black mesa before its nuked....
