Combine and Xen Connection (A long, Comprehensive Theory of evererything HL)

[Pai-Mei]

Nihilanth and the controllers took control of the vortigaunts, using their small psychic powers to manipulate the vortigaunt group mind, the vortessence.. The Combine, a race from another dimension, found a teleport that could get them to Xen.

See, you're on the right track with the Xen Masters controlling the Vorts...

When a company pollutes a whole towns water system, do you honestly believe there's some figure sitting at the head of the meeting table, grinning at the thought of all the dead children his company is about to be responsible for? Or is it conceivable that sometimes people take risks; or should that be, are willing to risk the lives of some unknown townsfolk, in order to make more money?

I have always believed the person in charge didn't choose for the cascade to happen but saw it as a risk he/she was willing to take for progress in whatever it was they were doing.

Perhaps it was an accident in Breen's mind, but you still have failed to explain WHY THE G-MAN WAS AT BMRF BEFORE THE INCIDENT.

Perhaps the Resonance Cascade was an accident in Breen's mind, as I believe it was, but it was definitly pushed by the G-Man to occur! AS I SAID BEFORE, although I don't remember the exact words, G-Man tells the scientist at the beginning of Half-Life, in that closed room, "That's not your decision to make." "It is much too important to be stopped." "You do not know the importance of this."
The scientist says things like "How is the equipment supposed to handle it?"

The point is, we KNOW that the G-Man has powers beyond any mere scientist or, well, actual G-Man. He is obviously some form of alien, employed by aliens, some guy from the future, or anything that should NOT be a BMRF without a reason. And his transcript proves it...

The Resonance Cascade was NOT a complete accident. Although the scientists may not have expected it to happen, The G-Man wanted it to happen for some reason. He was even making everything go haywire that day so the scientist's couldn't communicate with each other to tell them NOT to proceed with the experiment.

Remember Barney says at the beginning "I had a bunch of messages for you, but we had a system crash..." I'll bet those were all from various scientists around the departments urging Gordon not to go through with the experiment.

 

[Laivasse]

Pai-Mei, you say we are going on very little evedence and we are so sure of ourselfs, you are the same, and you are ignoring the evedence against your theory.

For once the lesser master lay defeated, we knew the greater must also fall in time.

So who is the greater master if not the Combine?

He dealt with that point...maybe you ignored it? The vorts speak quite figuratively much of the time. Comparing the Nihilanth to the Combine as a lesser and a greater master does not necessarily mean one controlled the other. It's quite obvious that the Combine are a much bigger threat than the Nihilanth ever was. Thus "lesser" master. Their strange use of tense is nothing new..."we see you still in the Nihilanth's chamber" even though you're no longer there. Maybe their weird hive consciousness doesn't distinguish past and future too well.

Maybe the "greater master" is GMan? remember "something secret steers us both..." - that one can't be the Combine. The Vort and Nihilanth quotes can be read *any* way you want, they're not solid backup for anything.

 

[AJ Rimmer]

See, you're on the right track with the Xen Masters controlling the Vorts...



Perhaps it was an accident in Breen's mind, but you still have failed to explain WHY THE G-MAN WAS AT BMRF BEFORE THE INCIDENT.

Perhaps the Resonance Cascade was an accident in Breen's mind, as I believe it was, but it was definitly pushed by the G-Man to occur! AS I SAID BEFORE, although I don't remember the exact words, G-Man tells the scientist at the beginning of Half-Life, in that closed room, "That's not your decision to make." "It is much too important to be stopped." "You do not know the importance of this."
The scientist says things like "How is the equipment supposed to handle it?"

The point is, we KNOW that the G-Man has powers beyond any mere scientist or, well, actual G-Man. He is obviously some form of alien, employed by aliens, some guy from the future, or anything that should NOT be a BMRF without a reason. And his transcript proves it...

The Resonance Cascade was NOT a complete accident. Although the scientists may not have expected it to happen, The G-Man wanted it to happen for some reason. He was even making everything go haywire that day so the scientist's couldn't communicate with each other to tell them NOT to proceed with the experiment.

Remember Barney says at the beginning "I had a bunch of messages for you, but we had a system crash..." I'll bet those were all from various scientists around the departments urging Gordon not to go through with the experiment.

I think Breen was responsible for the "accident" and G-man was there to stop it, all in accordance with the power struggle of control over Xen I believe was going on betwee them two in the first Half-life.

 

[ríomhaire]

They aren't fighting their ass of to kill the g-man, they are to kill the Combine.

 

[narc]

The main thing that everyone is ignoring is this

'that's pretty damn accurate'

quoted from Marc Laidlaw in reference to the storyline site

therefore the combine did control xen

 

[AJ Rimmer]

They aren't fighting their ass of to kill the g-man, they are to kill the Combine.

But they claim something secret steers both them and Gordon, hinting to the G-man.

 

[Pai-Mei]

For once the lesser master lay defeated, we knew the greater must also fall in time.

Because he is speaking in the past tense, grammatically, he must mean that BOTH masters are already defeated. The lesser master was something... and the greater master was the Nihilanth.

Granted, Vorts speak in odd english and kinda suck at it, and don't really have a firm grasp on temporal relations. So maybe they do mean that the Greater Master is still out there. In which case, it would assuradly be THEIR MASTER! The Combine is no longer their master (IMO, never was). So, who is the the current entity controlling the Vortessence? That would be, as we all agree, the G-Man. "We serve the same mystery." So, if you are saying that the Vortigaunts are speaking in the present tense, you must be saying that they want to destory the G-Man! I do not beleive this makes any sense with the game.

My speculation is that they truly meant it as they said it, in the past tense. Thus, there was a lesser master who was defeated, and they then knew that the Nihilianth was not far off from being defeated either. So who is the "lesser master?" Gonarch? Probably not... just a big baddie, not really a master. I believe that they are referring to the Xen Masters. Vorts speak in odd english and generally refer to coterminous things (like Xen Masters) in the singular sense, no matter how many they mean. So, once (many of) their "lesser master(s)" lay defeated, they knew that the Greater Master, Nihilanth would fall in time.

Pai-Mei, you say we are going on very little evedence and we are so sure of ourselfs, you are the same, and you are ignoring the evedence against your theory.

What are you talking about? Every single point that you guys bring up I analyze to hell and back again. For every Single sentence you bring up as "evidence," I practically prove it to be false. You guys say one completely subjective thing like "Oh yeah? Well why's he say 'we're slaves,'" or the whole lesser master thing, or the assjet, as though that is somehow proof of your argument. Your "proof" is all subjective; it can be interpretted many ways.

My "proof," however, is all based on factual observations, which you have never cared to explain. So answer me this:

1. Why don't the controllers wear shackles whereas all other sentient Xen do?
2. Why doesn't the Combine know that they can use Xen in HL2? OBVIOUSLY, had they controlled Xen and the Nihilanth and been aware of all of the portal storms, they would have known that it shares a border with Earth!
3. Why isn't there any Combine architecture on Xen?
4. Why did they control Xen in the first place if they never made use of it? (They never terraformed it, never assimilated them, and obviously never learned a damn thing about their technology)
5. If they did make use of it merely through the Nihilanth (not their style), why didn't they simply invade earth with Striders and stuff immediatly following the Resonace Cascade?

I eagerly await your response.

 

[ríomhaire]

But they claim something secret steers both them and Gordon, hinting to the G-man.

Yes, I think that aswell, but they seem happy with the g-man, but are supremly pissed off with the Combine.

Edit: Pai-Mei. this is going absolutly nowhere. It is clear we will not convince each other of anything.

For every Single sentence you bring up as "evidence," I practically prove it to be false.

You don't prove it to be false you just say how your theory fit in with them. My theory was built by useing this evedence, yours was made and then tailored to fit this.

Vorts speak in odd english and generally refer to coterminous things (like Xen Masters) in the singular sense, no matter how many they mean. So, once (many of) their "lesser master(s)" lay defeated, they knew that the Greater Master, Nihilanth would fall in time.

Where do they refer to coterminous things as singular? They refer to themselves as we, which is the opposite of what you are saying.

Edit 2: Pai-Mei, use the edit buton for God's sake.

 

[Pai-Mei]

Yes, I think that aswell, but they seem happy with the g-man, but are supremly pissed off with the Combine.

I'm not saying that the Vortigaunts are trying to kill the G-Man! I'm saying that if you really wanted to interpret that greater-lesser-master quote word-for-word, that's exactly what it means! Thus proving that you cannot really trust what the Vorts say word-for-word.

 

[Pai-Mei]

The main thing that everyone is ignoring is this

'that's pretty damn accurate'

quoted from Marc Laidlaw in reference to the storyline site

therefore the combine did control xen

Bah. Let's remember that this site lays down some very basic ideas that we all take to be true, but was never actually stated in the HLs. The idea of the Combine as an empire taking over dimensions, the idea of Xen under someone's control, the idea of the G-Man attempting to stop them are all things that we take to be true, although are never actually proven.

I think Laidlaw was meaning that its a "pretty damn accurate" picture of how things are going... theres a lot more here than just what we see in either HL. Whether or not some miniscule detail like the Combine having controlled Xen or not is true cannot be objectively inferred from that quote.

 

[Laivasse]

Also, Laidlaw's hardly going to say "sheesh your site sucks...! Everything's wrong!" We can assume that to a certain degree he was being polite.

 

[ríomhaire]

Also, Laidlaw's hardly going to say "sheesh your site sucks...! Everything's wrong!" We can assume that to a certain degree he was being polite.

If he was being polite he would have said, "Interesting"

 

[AJ Rimmer]

If he was being polite he would have said, "Interesting"

And if he was wrong he would have remained quiet. Or commented on the HTML coding was very well done.

 

[Eejit]

What you have to remember is the fact that Valve didn't have the whole story together in half life 1, what they had was a brief plotline for what they wanted to happen, in half life 1, Gman was merley there to confuse. He didn't have a purpose he was just intruiging.

True, but that isn't necessarily relevant. We can assume the while writing HL2 they did give the Gman a definite purpose and allegiance.
And imo Valve will stick with this throughout the rest of the series - they didn't know for sure that HL1 was going to be successful and have sequels, but when they created the plot for HL2 presumably Laidlaw used events in HL1 in an over-arcing plot covering up to at least HL3.

 

[Jandor]

1. Why don't the controllers wear shackles whereas all other sentient Xen do?

neither Metrocops, nor soldiers, nor Elites wear shackles. Unless you think there is something in there suit, which you can't prove. The Controllers could be brainwashed, they could have a controlling device under there skin. etc. anything could be used to keep the Controllers in check, not necersarilly shackles.

2. Why doesn't the Combine know that they can use Xen in HL2? OBVIOUSLY, had they controlled Xen and the Nihilanth and been aware of all of the portal storms, they would have known that it shares a border with Earth!

I dont quite understand what your saying. In response to why don't the Combine use Xen, they use a completely different technology for teleportation, it might not figure into the equation that they can use Xen. Having Uranium dosn't mean you can build a bomb.

3. Why isn't there any Combine architecture on Xen?

Where are they going to fit a Citadel on Xen? other than the Citadel and the Shield gates there is very little Combine architecture on Earth, Nova Prospekt is an old human prison, the trainstations are all human, C17 is human. Its mainly human architecture used by the Combine. also the Citadel tactic would not work on Xen as they do not appear to have 'Cities.'

4. Why did they control Xen in the first place if they never made use of it? (They never terraformed it, never assimilated them, and obviously never learned a damn thing about their technology)

They used it to produce Grunts, they created Nihilanth, they absorbed Gargs into there military forces. It's also a fragmented planet, there isn't much to terraform (or it might not need terraforming)

5. If they did make use of it merely through the Nihilanth (not their style), why didn't they simply invade earth with Striders and stuff immediatly following the Resonace Cascade?

Now, correct me if im wrong, but judging by the events of HL2 it would seem they did invade after the Resonance Cascade . immediately? it took time for them to realise that Nihilanth was dealing with an invasion. When you killed Nihilanth they invaded, however they didn't charge in, they waited for the 'Portal Storms' to weaken humanity.

also, I dont think Nihilanth can teleport outside of Xen, Humans were interfering on our side, we caused the problems.

 

[Gordon's Brother]

Nihilanth is probably really messed up(the combine rule by fear so he needs to look like what they think is scary)combine steroided and brainwashed all at one time

 

[Pai-Mei]

neither Metrocops, nor soldiers, nor Elites wear shackles. Unless you think there is something in there suit, which you can't prove.

I would say that their suits that cannot be removed, lobotomies, implants, and various other mechanical enhancements all function just as "shackles" do towards the Xen... it keeps them in check.

The Controllers could be brainwashed, they could have a controlling device under there skin. etc. anything could be used to keep the Controllers in check, not necersarilly shackles.

My point was that the Xen Controllers seem to have nothing keeping them in check at all... especially since all of the other Xen need shackles to be kept in check. However, I guess your response is fair enough.

I dont quite understand what your saying. In response to why don't the Combine use Xen, they use a completely different technology for teleportation, it might not figure into the equation that they can use Xen. Having Uranium dosn't mean you can build a bomb.

My point is that if the combine controlled Xen, they would know that they could use it to teleport around locally on earth, as we do. Considering that in HL1 we saw plenty of evidence of Xen teleporting around, it seems odd that if the Combine were in control of this the whole time, they would have forgotten how to do it... or worse, never learned. The Combine are the most advanced species that humanity has encountered, with the possible exception of the G-Man's race. You're telling me that after decades of controlling Xen they never learned the secret of local teleportation? That after witnessing the portal storms from BOTH SIDES that they didn't realize that Xen could be used to teleport around locally on Earth? Pretty damn stupid combine, if you ask me.

And if you've built or at least seen, a million bombs built out of uranium before, I'm sure you can do so yourself.

Where are they going to fit a Citadel on Xen?

I never said citadel. I said architecture. There are plenty of places that they could have had walls, mining facilities, forcefields, cameras... anything they wanted. Besides, the Xen Factory looked like it was on a pretty damn big enough hunk of rock to support a Citadel... yet its architecture was about as far from "Citadel" as I can imagine.

They used it to produce Grunts, they created Nihilanth, they absorbed Gargs into there military forces.

So where are they? Why have they never attacked with them? A Garg could take out like 5 striders... put one in a trainstation and I assure you, you're not going to have any trouble. And you're going to say that they lost control of the Gargs when they lost Nihilanth... so are you telling me that Gargs could only be controlled through Nihilanth? They lacked a lot more common sense than the Vorts, etc... I find it hard to believe that they were part of the same mind.

Now, correct me if im wrong, but judging by the events of HL2 it would seem they did invade after the Resonance Cascade .

I believe my words were IMMEDIATLY FOLLOWING, and as you said yourself, they waited a while until after the portal storms had "weakened" humanity. So, erm, why did they bother sending in Xen troops in the first place? Why would they send in Xen Troops and not their own, clearly superior hordes of Striders and Gunships?

 

[Jandor]

I believe my words were IMMEDIATLY FOLLOWING, and as you said yourself, they waited a while until after the portal storms had "weakened" humanity. So, erm, why did they bother sending in Xen troops in the first place? Why would they send in Xen Troops and not their own, clearly superior hordes of Striders and Gunships?

Wallace Breen controls Earth, it is him who sends the Overwatch after Gordon and he decides what goes in the Propaganda, he makes the decisions, however Earth is ruled by the Combine, they can overrule Breen but on most things do not. It is/was the same on Xen, Nihilanth made the decisions, he could have been overruled, but he wasn't. Nihilanth decided to send his troops through to Earth because Earths experiments where pissing him off . The Combine do not stop Nihilanth, however when Nihilanth dies the Combine decide that Earth is a threat and begin amassing an invasion force. They send it through after the Portal Storms.
Like Feudalism, Barons ruled how they saw fit in there own domain, but the King could overrule them.

So where are they? Why have they never attacked with them? A Garg could take out like 5 striders... put one in a trainstation and I assure you, you're not going to have any trouble. And you're going to say that they lost control of the Gargs when they lost Nihilanth... so are you telling me that Gargs could only be controlled through Nihilanth? They lacked a lot more common sense than the Vorts, etc... I find it hard to believe that they were part of the same mind

The Synth may be more effective on Earth than the Xen forces would be. would a Garg even fit down the streets?
Yes, the Combine have temporarily lost control of Xen. The leader of the hierarchy has been killed. The Vorts (a lot of them) have fleed.

I never said citadel. I said architecture. There are plenty of places that they could have had walls, mining facilities, forcefields, cameras... anything they wanted. Besides, the Xen Factory looked like it was on a pretty damn big enough hunk of rock to support a Citadel... yet its architecture was about as far from "Citadel" as I can imagine.

Xen may not actually possess large amounts of metal. It's already been said that the Combine use a planets own technology for enslavement of that planet as it is more conductive than its own (usually). Notice differences between American and Russian architecture? and where on the same planet in the same dimension.

My point is that if the combine controlled Xen, they would know that they could use it to teleport around locally on earth, as we do. Considering that in HL1 we saw plenty of evidence of Xen teleporting around, it seems odd that if the Combine were in control of this the whole time, they would have forgotten how to do it... or worse, never learned. The Combine are the most advanced species that humanity has encountered, with the possible exception of the G-Man's race. You're telling me that after decades of controlling Xen they never learned the secret of local teleportation? That after witnessing the portal storms from BOTH SIDES that they didn't realize that Xen could be used to teleport around locally on Earth? Pretty damn stupid combine, if you ask me.

And if you've built or at least seen, a million bombs built out of uranium before, I'm sure you can do so yourself.

I say that the Nihilanth and Xen in general NEVER knew how to do it outside of Xen. The Resonance Cascade was Humanitys fault, the Xenians just used it once it was happening to send forces through and try to stop it.
The Xen nor Combine have not seen a Human Teleporter being built though have they? hence why the want Mossman.

 

[Gordon's Brother]

Maybe the vortigaunts aren't brainwashed cause they are to smart to be brainwashed even with the combine's tech

 

[Pai-Mei]

It is/was the same on Xen, Nihilanth made the decisions, he could have been overruled, but he wasn't. Nihilanth decided to send his troops through to Earth because Earths experiments where pissing him off .

I say that the Nihilanth and Xen in general NEVER knew how to [teleport] outside of Xen.

Xen may not actually possess large amounts of metal.

At this point, I think you've worked yourself into a hole. Basically, you've admitted that the Combine had no reason to control Xen. You admitted that they really didn't completely control Nihilanth, couldn't use him to teleport, weren't using Xen troops, and weren't harvesting the planet. So were they getting ANYTHING out of it?

You admitted that the Nihilanth was acting under his own accord... just as Breen does. He saw a problem concerning only Xen, and tried to fix it using his Xen army. Fair enough. You just admitted that the Combine don't really need to be involved in the story thus far.

Now, on Earth, the Combine are taking all of our water, terraformming our planet (on a side note: eventual Combine inhabitation, maybe?), and even learnning from our technology, i.e. teleportation, armor, weapons.

You admitted that they are not taking resources from Xen as Xen lacks resources in general.

You said that Nihilanth doesn't even know how to teleport outside of Xen. So obviously the Combine aren't taking this knowledge from him. Well okay, fair enough, I personally believe that he CAN, but at least you will surely admit that he obviously knows how to teleport locally, within Xen... and we all know that the Combine haven't learned the technology to teleport locally within a dimenionsion from him either. Hell, what use would Nihilanth be to the Combine if his only power were to teleport within Xen? Why would they bother taking him? For his power over the Xen troops? How are they going to get them out of Xen without the ability to teleport? And, as you mentioned, the Combine were not behind the original Xen invasion of Earth, anyway, so they've never really made use of the Xen troops to our knowledge.

Nor have I ever seen Combine wielding Xen-like weapons. Striders shoot bullets and reality-distorting fields. Combine troops shoot bullets and glowy balls. Gunships shoot bullets and occasionally use a blue disintegrater field. The Copter drops mines, the APC launches rockets. The Combine occasionally use fuel barrels, headcrabs, tripmines, sniper rifles and turrets. It appears that the Combine tend to employ a wide arsenal, not limited to earth weaponry. Well I have NEVER seen anything Combine related that looked like it used Xen technology at all. No hivehands, no green electrical arcs, no yellow photons, no heat-jets, no teleport fields, no toxic globs.

When you boil it all down, as you just did for me, (thanks, btw) the Combine had no reason to control Xen, and we have no reason to believe that they did.

Oh, that's right there is. The single, solitary argument for your side, the entire thought process behind the Combine control of Xen, is the Nihilanth's Assjet. Thats it. Were it not for that damn Assjet, you would have nothing supporting your argument. Well, let me tell you something, that assjet bleeds. You can shoot it and blood comes from it. It's ****in' organic. The Combine do not meddle with true organic things. The flesh is weak, and they replace it when they can. Just look at the Syth... they don't bleed. You shoot them and your bullets bounce off of some Combine-created (though maybe organic) carapiece. I'd wager that the assjet is an organic levitation device created by the Xen Masters that works something like how their blue mantaray "planes" work.

In other words, while you can concoct your own storyline that the Combine controlled Xen which technically fits in with the Half-Life games, there is no actual reason to believe that they did.

Thank you.

 

[Sam2k]

One thing I don't get - on the coast levels the water seems to be at a normal level, surely if the combine were draining large quantities of it it would be lower?

 

[Pai-Mei]

One thing I don't get - on the coast levels the water seems to be at a normal level, surely if the combine were draining large quantities of it it would be lower?

Uhm... perhaps you didn't notice all of the beached ships in Highway 17, Water Hazard, and Sandtraps? The huge sand-and-rock areas that mysteriously arose near the shore in the Bug levels? The piers and cranes that were hundreds of meters from water in Highway 17?

Highway 17 was apparently built AFTER the combine inhabited earth... notice how the road goes sometimes goes into places where there should have been water over the sand at one point?

Basically, it looks as though they have lowered the water level by about 10 meters, give or take. It may not seem like a lot, but when you are talking about the single body of water that covers 75% of the Earth's surfuce, that is a LOT of water.

 

[narc]

'that's pretty damn accurate'

laidlaw WILL NOT have said that as one of the crucial parts of the story is that the combine controlled xen

one possible explanation for the lack of combine shizzle on xen is as follow

X links to Y links to Z

x our dimension, y xen's dimension, z the combines dimension

perhaps the combine found xen, conquered it, and are responsible for it's apparent disintegration, they took everything they needed/wanted and left nihilinth in charge. they ****ed off and began conquering other worlds in xen's dimension and their own. xen is forgotten. it's just another world in the millions they've conquered. however they keep nihilanth to make sure they're under control and perhaps in case a time comes when they need grunts/vorts/controllers to fight for them. up to the resonance cascade the combine had no idea that our dimension existed and had no idea of the importance of xen. local/slingshot teleportion was pretty much useless to them before then. so gman takes xen at the end of hl1 but the combine discover our dimension, push earth forces back and invade earth to ****, lol

 

[Sam2k]

I considered the crane and other evidence in favour of draining but the highway itself seems like it was built when the water was at the current level and the highway seems as if it was man-made not built by the combine.

I suppose tides could account for the discrepancy (if there are no tides anymore then I'm stuck )

 

[Laivasse]

'that's pretty damn accurate'

laidlaw WILL NOT have said that as one of the crucial parts of the story is that the combine controlled xen

"Good job! Marc Laidlaw pointed this out to me as being pretty darn accurate for the most part."

- Gary McTaggart (Valve)

This famous "pretty damn accurate" quote which is causing the fragfiles site to be followed like a Bible is:-

1) Not even a direct quote from Marc Laidlaw. It's just some other guy vaguely summing up his words.

2) There're more modifiers than have been reported. He doesn't just say "DAMN! That's accurate!", he adds "pretty..." and "for the most part". You could say "Combine are the bad guys" and be accurate "for the most part".

3) This quote therefore also means *he has got some stuff wrong*.

4) Says "darn" not "damn". That's more emphasis lost

This notorious quote is no reason at all to believe that fragfiles site over anyone else's version of events (especially since the Combine on Xen theory has been already shown here to be extremely shaky). And after all, this dude *is* just being polite...! He's not speaking for the purposes of confirming a theory, or because he's flabbergasted by how much has been guessed - he's just telling the guy that he has a nice site. If he had said something like, "ah yeah, nice site, I loved the layout, bye", the fragfiles guy would have been crying onto his keyboard because he would have known he'd fluffed up, bad. Better just to spare his feelings and be noncommittal..."So you noticed G-Man might not be human...nice one! :cheese: Marc Laidlaw says good job!"

Henceforth, let no argument be based on a vague quote, be it vorg, Nihilanth, Laidlaw or McTaggart. I've just realised the guy's name is McTaggart.

 

[Laivasse]

Just thought I should add that there's another quote from Laidlaw floating about, saying that Mankind are the first race that the Combine have enslaved, rather than simply swallow and add to their forces. The first!! That makes Xen....the nothingth!! I'm too lazy to provide the quote but I've seen it posted in at least 2 threads apart from this one....someone out there apart from me knows it exists!!

Henceforth, let no argument be based on a vague quote, be it vorg, Nihilanth, Laidlaw or McTaggart.

Eiiih, I just broke my own rule....

/self-administers warning points

 

[Pai-Mei]

perhaps the combine found xen, conquered it, and are responsible for it's apparent disintegration, they took everything they needed/wanted and left nihilinth in charge. they ****ed off and began conquering other worlds in xen's dimension and their own. xen is forgotten. it's just another world in the millions they've conquered. however they keep nihilanth to make sure they're under control and perhaps in case a time comes when they need grunts/vorts/controllers to fight for them. up to the resonance cascade the combine had no idea that our dimension existed and had no idea of the importance of xen. local/slingshot teleportion was pretty much useless to them before then. so gman takes xen at the end of hl1 but the combine discover our dimension, push earth forces back and invade earth to ****, lol

Like I said, you CAN make up storylines that fit into HL where the Combine have conquered Xen, but there's really no reason to believe that they have.

 

[Sieg]

Just something I remembered.On the last chapter of the game,Dr.Breen was talking to a......something.
Was that a combine slug?

 

[Pai-Mei]

Just something I remembered.On the last chapter of the game,Dr.Breen was talking to a......something.
Was that a combine slug?

Okay. I don't want to be rude, but... I'm going to be.

All I have to say is... on a forum that has over a million posts, almost 50000 users, and 67000 threads that are all dedicated to EVERYTHING HL2, from the G-Man's hair color to the worms in the ocean, to speculating about HL3... don't you think that the answer to that question just MIGHT be somewhere already? Perhaps, just maybe, there might be entire threads already devoted to studying it? That the place for asking such a quick question might not be in the one thread where people are writing entire essays and proofs examining all of the possible repurcussions of any given theory?

I could answer your question quickly, but you will get a lot more information in the following links.

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/search.php?

And if you don't want to do that yourself...

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=70370&highlight=combine+advisor+model

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=65971&highlight=combine+advisor+model

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=64798&highlight=combine+advisor+model

And, if that doesn't work for you, go ahead and start your own thread speculating about what that thing might be. I personally don't care if someone starts a new thread that has been done a million times... so long as its a new thread.

But, for some reason, and perhaps its because this is "my own" thread, I finally understand why people get so grouchy when someone goes off topic.

I guess I succumbed to the Dark Side and become one of the evil Forum Goons.

 

[Llama]

Okay. I don't want to be rude, but... I'm going to be.

All I have to say is... on a forum that has over a million posts, almost 50000 users, and 67000 threads that are all dedicated to EVERYTHING HL2, from the G-Man's hair color to the worms in the ocean, to speculating about HL3... don't you think that the answer to that question just MIGHT be somewhere already? Perhaps, just maybe, there might be entire threads already devoted to studying it? That the place for asking such a quick question might not be in the one thread where people are writing entire essays and proofs examining all of the possible repurcussions of any given theory?

I could answer your question quickly, but you will get a lot more information in the following links.

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/search.php?

And if you don't want to do that yourself...

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=70370&highlight=combine+advisor+model

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=65971&highlight=combine+advisor+model

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=64798&highlight=combine+advisor+model

And, if that doesn't work for you, go ahead and start your own thread speculating about what that thing might be. I personally don't care if someone starts a new thread that has been done a million times... so long as its a new thread.

But, for some reason, and perhaps its because this is "my own" thread, I finally understand why people get so grouchy when someone goes off topic.

I guess I succumbed to the Dark Side and become one of the evil Forum Goons.

That was harsh

 

[AJ Rimmer]

That was harsh

But not entirely unjustified.

 

[PickledGecko]

Perhaps it was an accident in Breen's mind, but you still have failed to explain WHY THE G-MAN WAS AT BMRF BEFORE THE INCIDENT…
The point is, we KNOW that the G-Man has powers beyond any mere scientist or, well, actual G-Man. He is obviously some form of alien, employed by aliens, some guy from the future, or anything that should NOT be a BMRF without a reason. And his transcript proves it...

One mans G-Man theory is another mans spurt of verbal diarrhoea.

These “powers”, where in all of HL1/2 did you see him use any “powers”. The closest thing to this is the carriage at the end of HL1 and the end sequence of HL2. We’re talking about a universe where teleportation is a reality. There is not one piece of evidence to suggest that G-Mans “powers” could not be explained by technology developed in other sections of BMRF. Think about it, when Gordon and Alyx escape from Nova Prospekt they appear not only in another place (space) but also a week later (time) through technology.

"That's not your decision to make." "It is much too important to be stopped." "You do not know the importance of this."

Sounds like someone who is in charge of the experiments and doesn’t care too much about the risks. There’s nothing particularly supernatural or other-worldly about this. There’s plenty of people on Earth with a ‘what the hell do I care, I’m gonna make loads-a money out-a this’ attitude.

What I suggest you do is find a “suspect” (in this case you’ve decided on the G-Man) for the deliberate cause of the resonance cascade. Then apply detective logic to it, i.e. means, motive and opportunity. Means and opportunity, yes, he seems to have the ability to overrule the scientists. Motive? What possible motive could he have? The only clue is at the end when he says “Xen is now in our control” (or similar). But what part did the resonance cascade play? It was in fact caused by Xen crystals. This shows us that he already had the ability to go there with an army anyway.

If you can find a motive that is backed up by evidence and not loosely based on an improvable “what is the g-man” theory, I’ll believe that it was deliberate.

 

[ríomhaire]

You're telling me that after decades of controlling Xen they never learned the secret of local teleportation?

After decades of controlling coal/oil fields humans never learned the secret of burning them!

Edit: Pai-Mei, I agree with your sig

 

[Laivasse]

If you can find a motive that is backed up by evidence and not loosely based on an improvable “what is the g-man” theory, I’ll believe that it was deliberate.

All the motives that have been discussed are backed up by evidence seen in the game. Why do we think GMan forced the resonance cascade? Because he's clearly not being developed as a stupid character, yet he twisted the scientists into the experiment despite many a lot of doubt and protest over it. Why does he seem special and otherworldly? Because he can walk freely in a disaster area full of bloodthirsty aliens and "if it moves shoot it"-style soldiers without fear of being attacked. He walks into dead end corridors and vanishes. In HL2 he seems to be the only person on the planet who can teleport locally so easily (if indeed he is teleporting and it's not some other method even more complex).

That is what is called evidence. However obviously noone can come up with anything other than an "unprovable theory" atm because if GMan's motives could be identified and proven it would have happened months ago.

You are the one arguing that GMan is some normal greedy exec without much more to him other than some sleazy shortminded goals. *This* is the argument that lacks evidence, and if you want people to listen then the burden of support is on you, not them. You don't strengthen your own theory by pointing out how other people's are unprovable (esp. since nothing significant about GMan is "provable"so far).

 

[AJ Rimmer]

All the motives that have been discussed are backed up by evidence seen in the game. Why do we think GMan forced the resonance cascade? Because he's clearly not being developed as a stupid character, yet he twisted the scientists into the experiment despite many a lot of doubt and protest over it. Why does he seem special and otherworldly? Because he can walk freely in a disaster area full of bloodthirsty aliens and "if it moves shoot it"-style soldiers without fear of being attacked. He walks into dead end corridors and vanishes. In HL2 he seems to be the only person on the planet who can teleport locally so easily (if indeed he is teleporting and it's not some other method even more complex).

That is what is called evidence. However obviously noone can come up with anything other than an "unprovable theory" atm because if GMan's motives could be identified and proven it would have happened months ago.

You are the one arguing that GMan is some normal greedy exec without much more to him other than some sleazy shortminded goals. *This* is the argument that lacks evidence, and if you want people to listen then the burden of support is on you, not them. You don't strengthen your own theory by pointing out how other people's are unprovable (esp. since nothing significant about GMan is "provable"so far).

Well spoken!

 

[Pai-Mei]

After decades of controlling coal/oil fields humans never learned the secret of burning them!

Uhm... not only is your point false, but it pretty much has no analogy to this situation.

Oil has been burned since the dawn of civilization and seems to date back to before we even had the written word. Yet even then, humans never "controlled" oil fields, they simply gathered it up from reservoirs. The first time that and oil source was "controlled" was when the first well was drained in like 1859, many years after we had learned to burn it.

Despite the lack of actual merit in your analogy's source, the analogy itself is flawed. Are you telling me that if we saw a race of people burning oil for ten years that we would not figure out how to burn oil?

Edit: Pai-Mei, I agree with your sig

Thanks. That's my way out in case, despite all of my proof, what I say turns out to be false.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

"The single, solitary argument for your side, the entire thought process behind the Combine control of Xen, is the Nihilanth's Assjet."

I'm blown away by that quote. Although, it's probably a life support unit, because it's more likely that Nihilanth is propelling himself in the same way as Controllers do - through sheer force of will.

To support Pai's argument against the oil-burning analogy...
Whenever we've seen, in the past, another culture do something unique, or useful, we've sought to duplicate it. From the first flint tools, to the biggest A-Bomb, these technologies have spread due to cultures seeking to copy one another.

If the Combine were on Xen, they'd have seen the Controllers beaming themselves around, and have sought to duplicate it.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[PickledGecko]

All the motives that have been discussed are backed up by evidence seen in the game.

Please name them and tell me where in the game the evidence can be found, if they exist at all.

]Why do we think GMan forced the resonance cascade? Because he's clearly not being developed as a stupid character...

He hasn’t been developed as a character at all. He is a complete mystery to everyone.

]Why does he seem special and otherworldly? Because he can walk freely in a disaster area full of bloodthirsty aliens and "if it moves shoot it"-style soldiers without fear of being attacked.

Lots of people got out of Black Mesa, not all gun wielding one man armies like Gordon, e.g. Breen, Kleiner and Eli. They seemed pretty normal to me.

]He walks into dead end corridors and vanishes. In HL2 he seems to be the only person on the planet who can teleport locally so easily (if indeed he is teleporting and it's not some other method even more complex).

I don’t remember ever seeing this in either game. I remember seeing him all over the place, he would walk around a corner or through a door that I could not reach. I only ever saw him teleport once in HL1. It was through a window and he walked into one the teleporters in Lambda Complex. If you’re talking about using noclip, well what do you expect the map makers to do? Create every room in the whole of Black Mesa, even though the player can only go down certain corridors and into certain rooms? That’s just how computer games have to be made. As for him showing up all over the place in HL2, why does it have to be teleportation? Why can’t it be a vehicle? You neither see him teleport nor use a vehicle, but why do you jump to the strange conclusion when the normal one fits?

]You are the one arguing that GMan is some normal greedy exec without much more to him other than some sleazy shortminded goals. *This* is the argument that lacks evidence, and if you want people to listen then the burden of support is on you, not them. You don't strengthen your own theory by pointing out how other people's are unprovable (esp. since nothing significant about GMan is "provable"so far).

I was not trying to put forward a G-Man theory at all. I totally agree that nothing about the G-Man is provable. I thought that would have been obvious…

One mans G-Man theory is another mans spurt of verbal diarrhoea.

My intention was to show that you don’t need to go to the ‘otherworldly’ or ‘supernatural’ to explain his behaviour. The above was just one of many possible examples that could explain his behaviour without resorting to the fanciful.

Ultimately, the one thing that sticks in my mind when I think about the G-Man is Ockham's Razor “Choose the simplest theory that fits the facts well”. Why go into outlandish theories when the simplest one fits? The G-Man has not does do anything that makes me think he must be anything other than human. That, of course, does not mean he definitely is human, but it is the “simplest theory that fits the facts well”.

 

[Pai-Mei]

I'm blown away by that quote.

Thanks.

I don’t remember ever seeing this in either game. I remember seeing him all over the place, he would walk around a corner or through a door that I could not reach.

Seriously, are we playing the same game? I can give you at least 3 places in the original HL where you see him, go up to where he walked into not 10 seconds later, and he has completely vanished. This doesn't all of the other numerous sightings...

1. On a balcony right after you first encounter Houndeyes.
2. In the balcony in Powerup as you face the first Gargantuan.
3. Apprehension, right before you have to jump across the generator pistons.

And In HL2, you see him walking into a deserted boathouse that you go up to not more than 15 seconds later, and he's gone. He also walks around a corner on the dam you can get to in like 7 seconds, and poof, he's completely vanished. You see him on a bunch of television monitors playing kooky music with a Raven on his shoulder.

I will admit, he may still be human with a lot of teleportation technology acting on his behalf, but the fact remains... he has powers at his disposal, either directly or indirectly (like a team in a teleport lab miles orbitting earth) that are beyond most people's access, but he's definitly teleporting.

Besides, we're not saying that he's necessarilly Nihilanth in a 3-piece suit or the second coming of Christ... we're only deducing from all of his powers and actions that he plays a far greater role in all of this than some guy out to make a buck or something else equally petty.

 

[Eejit]

The single, solitary argument for your side, the entire thought process behind the Combine control of Xen, is the Nihilanth's Assjet.

First let me say that like you I used to think the Combine did control Xen, but that I haven't for a couple of months now.

But for the sake of accuracy the Combine force-fields you see everywhere have marked similarities to the force-fields found on conveyor-belts in the Xen factories.
I used that as a piece of supporting evidence when I agreed with that theory, but now that I don't I'll point out that it's a fairly common idea in sci-fi games and on the plot level it could easily be convergent technology.