Combine and Xen Connection (A long, Comprehensive Theory of evererything HL)

[ríomhaire]

Perhaps it did... which would mean the Combine didn't have protals in their universe to Xen prior to that, meaning that the Combine were not in control of Xen. Thank you, another convert.

Your just twisting peoples words now.

The reason for the Vorts collars being different should be bloody obvious. The collars were designed to be used in conjunction with the Nihilanth. He died. :thumbs: The collars were thus useless. So recaptured vorts had new collars put on because they are controlled using a different technique. Valve would have looked stupid and inconsistent if they'd kept them same.

Thank you. That was quiet obvious.


Pai Mei, you have now changed your argument to that the Combine cannot teleport
A) this dosn't make any sense.
B) this dosn't make any sense.
C) ya mama so dumb, she starved to death in a supermarket.

 

[Asknoone]

Thank you. That was quiet obvious.

I think he was trying to tell Pai Mie this.

 

[Blakeb155]

A) this dosn't make any sense.
B) this dosn't make any sense.
C) ya mama so dumb, she starved to death in a supermarket.

That was very un-called for. A simple "What you said didn't make sense because..." would of been much more productive.

 

[Asknoone]

That was very un-called for. A simple "What you said didn't make sense because..." would of been much more productive.

Maybe he was trying to make us laugh.

 

[narc]

I think he was trying to tell Pai Mie this.

I was. And if it's so obvious why has no one mentioned it before in this thread or any other threads regarding the vorts collars.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

The new collars put on the Vortigaunts, if they are indeed Combine tech, looks like they could be used merely for supressing the electricity of the Vorts. In the original HL, the purpose of the Collar was to dull all but the combat sense of the Vortigaunts, and increase their efficiency/controllability (not neccesarily by Combine hands, though). The ones in HL2 look like they're not removing the smarts from the Vortigaunts - merely stopping them from shocking everyone. One, albeit vague, argument for this would be the fact that the Vortigaunt cleaner at the beginning of the game sulks as he works - you need intelligence to feel degraded - and there's also a Metrocop guarding him. If they were being mind-controlled by these new collars, they wouldn't need to be guarded.

Oh, and if the Combine controlled Xen, then why are they torturing/experimenting on a Vortigaunt in Nova Prospekt? Doesn't make much sense, as if the Combine controlled the Vorts, they'd have learnt all they needed to know about their anatomy while on Xen.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Jandor]

He would need to be Guarded as apart from Vortigaunts there are no telepathic creatures on Earth. No one can therefore use the collar to command him directly, so an Overwatch Soldier has to yell orders at him, then whack him with a stun baton .

Maybe Humans are experimenting on captured Vortigaunts.....because they can, all the members of the Overwatch seem very sadistic.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

They're only sadistic because the Combine have severed their compassion from their psyche.

Still, whouldn't it be more convenient to gate in some Controllers to control the Slaves? But then again, because controllers can gate themselves at will, it kinda goes against the idea that the Combine are only able to use tunnelling to get from A to B.

I still think the Combine found and enslaved only the Vortigaunts they met on Earth. As these Vorts hadn't been found (and de-collared) by Humans, they decided merely to adapt on existing Xen technology (the collar) with their own (plugs and stuff). Kinda like the attack helicopter.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Jandor]

- There still sadistic then . Which means that they could only be experimenting on Vorts because of it.

- Controllers can't teleport themselves to Earth, only around Xen, and we don't even know if thats unlimited .

- Thats up to you isn't it.

 

[Eejit]

What implants in there head?

There's a diagram painted on a wall in various parts of the game showing a cross-section of an Overwatch's head with mechanical parts in it.
I'm surprised you didn't see it or one of the 20 threads made about it.

and now Gordon has blown up Breen and the main Citadel and allowed the rebellion to really get going, how the hell are they going to get them off-world.

Ok that's completely ignoring his point. He said the combine were adapting earth technology, and you respond by saying that they can't after Gordon has completed his mission...?
That's irrelevant, please either come up with an arguement or concede the point?

Your sure that the Portal Storms sent out lots of "interdimensional energy" why? what the hell is "interdimensional energy" anyway? I think you just made "interdimensional energy" up.

He did, but he's still got a point. Out-of-control portals raging madly between 2 dimensions for a period of time could probably be detected by the Combine, or any other races who use teleportation.
Isn't the resonance cascade supposed to be what attracted Race-X? (btw Yes, I think Gearbox would have talked to Laidlaw about something as basic as that when coming up with the idea)
And that was after a shorter period of time, and the cascade was much more localised than the portal storms.

 

[Asknoone]

Oh, and if the Combine controlled Xen, then why are they torturing/experimenting on a Vortigaunt in Nova Prospekt? Doesn't make much sense, as if the Combine controlled the Vorts, they'd have learnt all they needed to know about their anatomy while on Xen.

-Angry Lawyer

They were putting a collar onto him.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

Evidence?

It seems more likely they were just brutalising him, like all the human corpses you find everywhere.

Wasn't there a quote somewhere in the game about Vortigaunts giving their lives to go and infiltrate the Combine Citadel, and broadcast back the info through their mind-web? It's a foggy memory, and it could be beer-induced, but I could've sworn it happened.

If the Vortigaunts were controlled by the Combine before the Combine came to Earth, wouldn't the Vortigaunts - through simple affiliation with them at a point in the past - know all their weak spots already, and not need to infiltrate?

Prompt me if I'm talking bollocks about the Vortigaunt infiltration thing though, because I can't for the life of me remember where it was. Like a waking dream, you can't tell between what's really happening, and what's a dream.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Asknoone]

Your talking bollocks

Vorts often got captured, and they would send back information about Nova Prospekt.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

Close enough.

Still, there's not much evidence that they were putting a collar on him. They were probably brutalising him for spying.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Asknoone]

Seems fair enough, but it looked like they were burning the collar on to me...

 

[Angry Lawyer]

I'll take a look when I get on the computer I've got HL2 on. But I would have remembered them doing anything odd. I'm sure it was just laying broken in a dentists chair, like so many humans you come across.

I'm off to get beer. I argue so much better with beer in my gut

-Angry Lawyer

 

[ríomhaire]

If the Vortigaunts were controlled by the Combine before the Combine came to Earth, wouldn't the Vortigaunts - through simple affiliation with them at a point in the past - know all their weak spots already, and not need to infiltrate?

Well the Combine lost control of them before they invaded Earth. And anyway, what do you think they said to the vorts when they took control of them.

OK men, er vorts, if the enemey ever attack, here is our weekest point. Remember that, always remember that. If anyone was to attack here would be the best place for it.

 

[Pai-Mei]

Pai Mei, you have now changed your argument to that the Combine cannot teleport

Now you're twisting my words. I merely stated that the Combine cannot teleport using Xen technology, which is clearly superior. Combine teleportation takes a lot of warm-up, a lot of energy (we see their portal at the end of HL2... Im clearly not stating that they cannot teleport at ALL). Xen teleportation, at least BY the Xen, seems to require small amounts of energy and almost no warm-up time... although human attempts require both, though still much less than Combine string "yo-yo" portals.

 

[ríomhaire]

This thread is giving me a headache.
:angry: :rolling: :x :bonce: ;(

Combine having a different type of teleport is not evedence to support they were not on Xen.

 

[Pai-Mei]

Combine having a different type of teleport is not evedence to support they were not on Xen.

Actually, it is. Mossman specifically states, as we have pointed out over and over again, that the Combine do not know how to use Xen to teleport.

This thread is giving me a headache.

Me too. We're not changing anyone's minds, much less each other's...

truce?

 

[ríomhaire]

truce?

OK, I'll call of my vort hit squad. Just don't 5 point exploding heart techneque me!

 

[Pai-Mei]

OK, I'll call of my vort hit squad. Just don't 5 point exploding heart techneque me!

I don't stand a chance against them anyways.

--gets hit by electricity bolts--

VORTIGAUNT: "That should keep the riomhaire safe."

 

[Asknoone]

All she is saying is they are using different branches of entanglement, its nothing to do with whether the combine were on xen or not.

Its nothing to do with the combine, its just a human resistance having more brains that some fat slug of an alien.

 

[Jandor]

Ok that's completely ignoring his point. He said the combine were adapting earth technology, and you respond by saying that they can't after Gordon has completed his mission...?
That's irrelevant, please either come up with an arguement or concede the point?

It's not ignoring his point at all. He repeatedly says "Why don't the Combine use Xen technology on Earth" and I say its because they cant get it to Earth now Gordon has gone and screwed Xen over. I then say that they can't use Earth technology off world now, because Gordon has screwed Earth over.

That is what I was getting at.

Me too. We're not changing anyone's minds, much less each other's...

truce?

O.K. It was a nice "freindly discussion" while it lasted. similar to one I had on HL2World about who would win between America and the Combine.

EDIT: OK, I was going to post a link, but it wont let me. Pity, it's one of the few discussions that remained relatively flame free. Oh well.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

It was pretty friendly, and I hope both camps have realised that their thoughts aren't infallible.

Everyone's allowed their own opinions, just as long as they're the same as my own.

Oh, and the Combine beat America. They've got a whole unified race behind them. We're busy fighting each other. Besides, if America could stave them off, would HL2 have happened?

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Jandor]

Well, the thread put some pretty heft caps on the Combine's power .

 

[AIDisabled]

Zombies

This is my first post here, so if what I say sounds absurd, please file it under newbie nonsense and forget it.

There is a lot of excellent food of thought in this thread (too much to digest in one sitting, in fact), and most of it is unlike the usual who is G-man tomfoolery I've seen quite a few other threads descend into (yes, I've been lurking for a while).

Here's something that, though I can't exactly explain how, adds to the confusion (I did a search for this, but couldn't find anything):

The headcrabs latch onto humans and turn them into zombies. Everyone accepts that those headcrabs (the basic version at least; the others might have mutated after getting teleported to earth) are from Xen.

Consider this: how big a co-incidence is it that those headcrabs latch specifically on to human beings and not something else? Why humans, when they could've been teleported to any planet in the universe (unless the teleporting was planned and expected beforehand, that is) with many different diverse species? Why humans? Hell, why consider a different planet? Consider our own: why not latch on to dogs, or cats, or even elephants. Monkeys?

Consider a normal earth parasite in the real world: creepers only latch on to trees, not humans. All parasites here are made specifically to feed off a specific species.

Also, evolving a new species is not a matter of seconds even on Xen, I think. If creating new beings was that easy, they could easily bombard Gordon with monsters the like of which we couldn't even imagine. I mean, if they can cough up new organic beings in milliseconds, why make these little crabs when you can make formless blobs that engulf the cities whole a la System Shock 2's Many?

So this headcrab manufacturing must have gone on for a long, long time. Again, this means the invasion was expected. It was all arranged.

I will not say arranged by who, because that's an argument that doesn't have a definitive answer.

Of course, the headrcab-zombie thing could've been a freak of the resonance cascade, but such big co-incidences sound more like mid-story deus ex machinas than solid progression.

And again, if this post sounds absurd, all apologies.

 

[Laivasse]

Hmm, some interesting points there but I've always been under the impression that headcrabs are more like Xen wildlife (along with houndeyes, bullsquids, those giant tentacles) rather than an organised invasion force or weapon. This is borne out by the fact that you don't get any headcrabs, etc. in the big military-esque factory towards the end. I think we're also meant to understand from the story that it's the Gonarch who produces all the headcrabs (and perhaps that's the reason why we see so few afterwards) and so that kind of puts paid to the idea that they were "developed" as a weapon.

On a side note, it says in RtB that the Gonarch is the final evolved form of the normal headcrab - so potentially they all could turn into Gonarchs (possibly there's even a few on Earth by the time of HL2). I see it kind of like those flying ants.....they go out looking to become queens and start new nests, but 999 in 1000 get massacred due to unfavourable conditions or awkwardly placed scientists with crowbars.

For the purposes of consistency you could assume that maybe headcrabs do latch onto other animals apart from humans. However since you never see any normal dogs or elephants, there's no reason to expect to see headcrabbed ones. Or perhaps headcrabs only latch onto lifeforms that are intelligent enough to make use of.

 

[AIDisabled]

1. Hmm, some interesting points there but I've always been under the impression that headcrabs are more like Xen wildlife (along with houndeyes, bullsquids, those giant tentacles) rather than an organised invasion force or weapon.

2. On a side note, it says in RtB that the Gonarch is the final evolved form of the normal headcrab - so potentially they all could turn into Gonarchs (possibly there's even a few on Earth by the time of HL2). I see it kind of like those flying ants.....they go out looking to become queens and start new nests, but 999 in 1000 get massacred due to unfavourable conditions or awkwardly placed scientists with crowbars.

3. For the purposes of consistency you could assume that maybe headcrabs do latch onto other animals apart from humans. However since you never see any normal dogs or elephants, there's no reason to expect to see headcrabbed ones.

4. Or perhaps headcrabs only latch onto lifeforms that are intelligent enough to make use of.

Sorry for numbering your lines; it's how I usually reply to quotes.

1. This only raises that initial question: if they are Xen wildlife, then it really is a big co-incidence that they latch on to human beings. I mean, there is a varied ecology (wildlife) here on Earth (in the real world), but there are no forms of life here that show the kind of parasitical behavior those headcrabs show. In reality, biology tells us that such kind of adaptation has a strong possibility of happening only in a surrounding which favors it--nay, needs it. So, theoretically, Earth is the place where headcrabs would develop since their prime food/source (ie, humans, for the sake of this argument) is located here. Likewise, the headcrabs (from Xen) would latch on to the Vortigaunts (or whatever the intelligent lifeform on Xen is called) first. I know I'm being too hard-headed and going too much into hard science. I do understand that a few deviations from real science are necessary to create good fiction and good monsters, but everything upto now in this thread has been based on good logical deduction, and I think that's the way we should continue; either that, or abandon all logic.

2. I did not know that. This does put a serious shadow over my theory. But then again, if you do apply logic, why create crabs that convert men into zombies instead of killing them? I don't think those zombies are controlled by any power (if they are, sorry in advance). They aren't even very efficient killing machines; not even in hordes, as Gordon proves time and again. And once more, the Gonarch-headcrab relation is not one that evolves in a day or two, unless we're willing to discard Darwin's logic. (And unless a bio-factory produces such a thing, which raises the manufactured question again.)

3. Yup. Accepted.

4. I think so too. But this raises another question: if headcrabs are intelligent enough to distinguish between intelligent and non-intelligent lifeforms, why aren't they intelligent enough for other things? Organised attack, for example? Or simple bullet-evasion?

 

[Jandor]

Humans turning into Mawmen when a headcrab is latched on is just a freakish co-incedence in my opinion. It shouldn't be able to happen, but it can. also, I don't think that Headcrabs latch onto only intelligent beings, just head shaped objects, like a human head, a vortigaunt head, or a melon

 

[ríomhaire]

What the hell is a Mawman.

I think a Gonarch is more like a queen bee, specialy bread to produce more headcrabs.

What makes you think the other 2 species evolved after coming to Earth?

I have noticed something strange though, fast headcrabs don't have beaks

 

[Pai-Mei]

What the hell is a Mawman.

I've heard the term before. Its a seldom used, though still common, term for Headcrab zombies.

The vertical maw is the source of the zombie's official name: The mawman. The general public had the tendency to call them zombies, however, because of their slow movement and severely limited intelligence, along with their somewhat resurrective origin. The name stuck, and now you're unlikely to hear the word 'mawman', even amoung die-hard fans.

4. I think so too. But this raises another question: if headcrabs are intelligent enough to distinguish between intelligent and non-intelligent lifeforms, why aren't they intelligent enough for other things? Organised attack, for example? Or simple bullet-evasion?

I think that they go after bipedal creatures. Even simple creatures like dogs and cats and birds can tell humans apart from other things without having the coordination for organized attacks.


I once heard the theory that headcrabs will only evolve into Gonarch once they have taken a host body... which is really the only logical conclusion. According to Darwin, only the ones who are able to latch on were able to reproduce, seeing as how those are the only ones that survive to this day.

Since headcrabs make a very radical transformation over their host, (even if you do not consider Gonomes to be real HL material) its not that hard to believe that, given enough nutrients to keep growing and evolving, it will eventually lose all humanity and grow into a Gonarch.

What do you guys think about the Poison Zombie? Does he create headcrabs a la Aliens or just throw them around?

 

[Jandor]

I think the Poison Zombie has been engineering not to reach the Gonarch stage. It instead starts growing more headcrabs at its Mawman stage, I made a site about HL wildlife, I never finished it though.

 

[ríomhaire]

I once heard the theory that headcrabs will only evolve into Gonarch once they have taken a host body... which is really the only logical conclusion.

Am, specialy bread like a queen bee
Pai-Mei, do you enjoy ignoring me?

 

[Pai-Mei]

Pai-Mei, do you enjoy ignoring me?

Sorry, roimhaire. I saw your post, recognized Queen Bee idea, and then shut it out of my mind and said what I wanted to say.

Nevertheless, there must be a reason that they zombify people... according to Darwin it must be for survival in some regard.

You are right, though, in the fact that Gonarch could be, and now that I think about it, probably is very much like a Queen Bee. The Zombification process must serve some necessity to keeping the whole headcrab hierarchy alive... maybe the Zombies get food and bring it back to the Gonarch... a la worker bees. This does make a lot of sense since bees are born specially equipped for whatever task they need to perform... which also explains the poison, fast, and Queen Gonarch headcrab variations.

Thanks, I think I've adopted your theory.

 

[ríomhaire]

My theory was that all 3 crabs where different species but now that one makes alot of sense, I don't know what to believe anymore!

You spelt my name wrong and put the miss spelling in bold! You drive me crazy :flame: :rolling: !!! Just joking.

 

[Pai-Mei]

You spelt my name wrong and put the miss spelling in bold! You drive me crazy...

Don't worry, riumahrie, I'll get it right next time. Your name isn't as easy to spell, as say, Jadner's, Layvassie's, Soman's, or the angree laywer's is.

I've got a question... what were all of those sac-shaped pods in Gonarch's lair? You know the ones I mean? They come in all shapes and sizes and look like. You can see a few in the background of this picture. At first I thought that they were maturing gonarchs, but maybe they are pods for the different kinds of headcrabs?

 

[FireCrack]

so... does this make headcrabs hermaphridites?

You see the pods in other places of xen, plus their modelname is fungi or somthing so i'd say they are just that, a weird xen mushroom.

Now, why is freeman... pleasuring gonagrch?

 

[AIDisabled]

Humans turning into Mawmen when a headcrab is latched on is just a freakish co-incedence in my opinion.

Okay, it could be a big co-incidence.

What makes you think the other 2 species evolved after coming to Earth?

It's just a hypothesis. No concrete proof to prove it; no concrete proof to prove otherwise, either, I think.

What do you guys think about the Poison Zombie? Does he create headcrabs a la Aliens or just throw them around?

I'm not sure, because the actual poison zombie model only looks like it has a maximum of ten (I'm giving a lot of leeway here) crabs on his body, and I've seen him throw around thrice as much. So perhaps he creates them.

I've got a question... what were all of those sac-shaped pods in Gonarch's lair? You know the ones I mean? They come in all shapes and sizes and look like.

I think they picked this up from Stephen King's IT as an original influence. They have to be eggs, for sure; perhaps they all contain a specific number of headcrab gametes. Maybe the Gonarch sucks one egg at a time into his belly through the lower annulus and then births headcrabs. I'm saying this because otherwise, if those eggs ultimately burst by themselves and headcrabs emerge, what's the point of the Gonarch spewing headcrabs (or small crabs) from its belly?

Of course this theory is far-fetched.

 

[Pai-Mei]

Now, why is freeman... pleasuring gonagrch?

What? That doesn't turn you on?

Seriously, its from an article entitled Half-Life Bloopers by Planet Half-Life about Half-Life bloopers. Apparently, the animatronic Gonarch broke.