Despised to be an American.

[seinfeldrules]

I think Bush's victory is a sign that America is just as bad as most of the rest of world thinks. Your inability to leave a self-obsessed, herd culture is perfectly emalgumated in the fact that Home Security is and shall continue to be the main issue for you people. Your nation can't see beyond its noses and that is what Bush was counting on, pure fear, it's awful.

Think what you will: Four more years, four more years!!!

He wanted a draft which either means he doesn't have the man power to deal with what he's involved in OR he wants more military to continue new agendas.

Beep. Wrong again. This is why Americans vote for President, not our lovely neighbors to the north.

Not that it matters to your completely close minded attitude, but the extreme liberal senator from NY, Charlie Rangel, was the one that passed a bill through Congress calling for the draft to be reinstated. It failed.

PS If you look at the numbers, it is clear the recession began under Clinton. If you must blame the President for how the economy is run (which shouldnt be done), then blame, at least, them both. However, this doesnt fit into your anti-Bush scenario, so you ignore the figures.

 

[Absinthe]

This is why Americans vote for President, not our lovely neighbors to the north.

Americans are not the brightest bulbs, y'know.

 

[seinfeldrules]

Americans are not the brightest bulbs, y'know.

And neither is your country

Even if we arent the brightest bulbs, you have helped to show we arent the most arrogant.

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

Americans are not the brightest bulbs, y'know.

The only thing we were not bright about is letting you on the internet.

 

[Absinthe]

And neither is your country

Even if we arent the brightest bulbs, you have helped to show we arent the most arrogant.

You know what's funny about this? I'm American.

The only thing we were not bright about is letting you on the internet.

And your mother wasn't bright about not tossing you into the abortion bucket when she had the chance.

Have a nice day.

 

[seinfeldrules]

Just thought I'd make up a little gathering of posts and clippings of posts. Many feel that Conservatives are the only ones who can act ignorant and downright insulting.

man.....bush won...only president ive ever heard of that makes you feel depised to be an american. funny when you look at the color maps...every single state thats red is in someway a freakin "redneck/retirment" state

You're cool dudes in a country with no decent choice in the vote. Better luck next time x

Well, my guy won, and I was going to come on here and be gracious.
But after seeing how all the democrats and euro-trash on this board are acting I think I'll just leave it at this.
SUCK IT.

And Im not even american here, i hate that the countries decision to choose that dictator affects the rest of the world... I feel for the people who have to deal with the job losses, and the "terror" speeches..

In the red areas there is greater isolation and less contact with diversity. These people stick to old ways, the only ways that anyone around them knows, and adpot the stuborn opinions of their familys.

Proving, once again, that the US is made up of alot of stupid people.

I think Bush's victory is a sign that America is just as bad as most of the rest of world thinks. Your inability to leave a self-obsessed, herd culture is perfectly emalgumated in the fact that Home Security is and shall continue to be the main issue for you people. Your nation can't see beyond its noses and that is what Bush was counting on, pure fear, it's awful.

e) In doing all that he has done he has altered people's beliefs on America. Many many people do not like what your country has done. If some of you are too ignorant to realise it is what your president has done that is causing these opinions to come your way you need to wake up and start looking at what impact your country has on other people.

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

And your mother wasn't bright about not tossing you into the abortion bucket when she had the chance.

Have a nice day.

Ohnoes!! You brought my mother into this!!!!!!!!1

 

[seinfeldrules]

You know what's funny about this? I'm American.

Then I'm glad you're over there

You can keep bashing all you want. It isnt going to change anything now. You are just sounding like a broken record on repeat mode.

 

[burner69]

Burner i have to say reading the guardian isn't going to give you slightest bit of balanced commentary. Your figures don't add up either, the economy is not quite so simply described...HOWEVER.... you are totally right in suggesting that Bush's tax cuts and allocation has helped create a vacuum that was not necessary.

To Disturbed who claims the economy is just fine...you're crazy. I don't know how you can suggest the Bush administration has done anything to help America's economic situation. Please point out some facts and figures, maybe an essay or two that can detail how it has.

Yeah, I know the Guardian ain't the best, it was to hand, and I was quoting figures from it

I was merely using some figures I had found to make a point, I'm more than aware that the economy is more complex, but I believe my simplicity made a point.

Closed minded attitude? The anti-bush guys here seem to be the only ones using evidence in our arguments. Okay sometimes the 'evidence' is speculative, and can be questioned, but we're trying.
Those of you who seem intent on simply cheering bush on are the ones with closed minds.

Apologies on the recession front. Bush was not totally to blame. But it would be hard to say he's done a great job at getting out of it: (taken from http://www.socialistappeal.org/usa/poverty_and_unemployment_in_amer.html)

"This slump saw the longest duration of job loss - 28 months.
This slump is the first time in which there was not a full recovery of jobs 31 months after the recession began.
This slump is the worst in terms of the rise of the unemployment rate (after adjustment for the "missing" labor force) 31 months after the recession began - up 3.2 percentage points.
The current slump has also been the most severe in terms of the loss of aggregate real wage and salary income 30 months after the recession began - down 1.2 percent. "

 

[Absinthe]

Then I'm glad you're over there

Born an American. Raised an American. Regardless of my current location.

So you can stop pretending that I'm the one exception to a perfect American populace.

I Bush bash because some people (like you) seem to be amazingly ignorant and naive when it comes to so many issues. So if I come off as a broken record to you (likewise, your posts strike me the same), then feel free to ignore them.

 

[burner69]

The only thing we were not bright about is letting you on the internet.

Unfortunatly, in saying what you've said there, you've shown you are everything people hate about americans. WHY do YOU have the right to let us on the internet?

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

Apologies on the recession front. Bush was not totally to blame. But it would be hard to say he's done a great job at getting out of it: (taken from http://www.socialistappeal.org/usa/poverty_and_unemployment_in_amer.html)

What happened on our stock market yesturday? Yeah, thats what I thought.

 

[seinfeldrules]

Apologies on the recession front. Bush was not totally to blame. But it would be hard to say he's done a great job at getting out of it: (taken from http://www.socialistappeal.org/usa/..._in_am er.html)

Thanks for pointing it out, but I highly doubt you will get unbiased info from a site entitled "socialistappeal". Hopefully you went to a conservative one as well if you are claiming an unbiased approach.

So you can stop pretending that I'm the one exception to a perfect American populace.

Well if you think so lowly of us, Im glad you're not here. I really dont want to deal with people who consider all Americans stupid. Well, in your case I'm sure you meant only the Americans that voted for Bush.

 

[burner69]

Then I'm glad you're over there

You can keep bashing all you want. It isnt going to change anything now. You are just sounding like a broken record on repeat mode.

Why? Because he has a point? A point he is backing up with evidence?

He has to repeat himself cuz all you come back with, after being told all this is: "Four more years!"
Start making valid points and we'll listen, something you seem incapable of doing.

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

WHY do YOU have the right to let us on the internet?

Did I infer that I was talking to you? I was talking to one select person.

 

[seinfeldrules]

He has to repeat himself cuz all you come back with, after being told all this is: "Four more years!"
Start making valid points and we'll listen, something you seem incapable of doing.

Want to know why I am? Here:

man.....bush won...only president ive ever heard of that makes you feel depised to be an american. funny when you look at the color maps...every single state thats red is in someway a freakin "redneck/retirment" state

You're cool dudes in a country with no decent choice in the vote. Better luck next time x

Well, my guy won, and I was going to come on here and be gracious.
But after seeing how all the democrats and euro-trash on this board are acting I think I'll just leave it at this.
SUCK IT.

And Im not even american here, i hate that the countries decision to choose that dictator affects the rest of the world... I feel for the people who have to deal with the job losses, and the "terror" speeches..

In the red areas there is greater isolation and less contact with diversity. These people stick to old ways, the only ways that anyone around them knows, and adpot the stuborn opinions of their familys.

Proving, once again, that the US is made up of alot of stupid people.

I think Bush's victory is a sign that America is just as bad as most of the rest of world thinks. Your inability to leave a self-obsessed, herd culture is perfectly emalgumated in the fact that Home Security is and shall continue to be the main issue for you people. Your nation can't see beyond its noses and that is what Bush was counting on, pure fear, it's awful.

e) In doing all that he has done he has altered people's beliefs on America. Many many people do not like what your country has done. If some of you are too ignorant to realise it is what your president has done that is causing these opinions to come your way you need to wake up and start looking at what impact your country has on other people.

I'm not going to argue with people that feel Bush supporters are either all out of touch, ignorant, or stupid. It is quite insulting.

On the economy: The President really doesnt have too much to do with it. Look over the course of history, it always follows a natural cycle. 9/11 probably helped the recession along. You can twist the figures all you want, but Bush cannot be blamed soley for the recession when he inherited it.

 

[burner69]

Thanks for pointing it out, but I highly doubt you will get unbiased info from a site entitled "socialistappeal". Hopefully you went to a conservative one as well if you are claiming an unbiased approach.


Well if you think so lowly of us, Im glad you're not here. I really dont want to deal with people who consider all Americans stupid. Well, in your case I'm sure you meant only the Americans that voted for Bush.

I agree, it aint the best. But I've searched for one coming from conservatives and cannot find one.

And I find it offensive that you believe my attacks on bush mean I hate Americans. I do not. And I know enogh to know that they are not stupid. And if you check back to some of my previous posts you will see I make an effort to say that I do not mind people who voted for Bush, I do not think them stupid, I merely disagree, strongly. Check, if you like.

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

but Bush cannot be blamed soley for the recession when he inherited it.

So true, some of it was Clinton's fault too. It was going down right when the election was held, so Bush isn't all to blame.

 

[burner69]

I'm not going to argue with people that feel Bush supporters are either all out of touch, ignorant, or stupid. It is quite insulting.

On the economy: The President really doesnt have too much to do with it. Look over the course of history, it always follows a natural cycle. 9/11 probably helped the recession along. You can twist the figures all you want, but Bush cannot be blamed soley for the recession when he inherited it.

I do not agree at all with that person's comments - whoever said it. I apologise on his behalf.

And you rightly said bush cannot be blamed for the recession alone. He inherited it. But looking at the figures, socialist or not, they're figures, it seems he has not helped.

It is easy for figures to be twisted, and I thank you for pointing it out.

 

[seinfeldrules]

I agree, it aint the best. But I've searched for one coming from conservatives and cannot find one.

And I find it offensive that you believe my attacks on bush mean I hate Americans. I do not. And I know enogh to know that they are not stupid. And if you check back to some of my previous posts you will see I make an effort to say that I do not mind people who voted for Bush, I do not think them stupid, I merely disagree, strongly. Check, if you like.

Well this is what I based it off of. It sounds as though you are bashing Bush supporters for being ignorant of the world and of Bush's policies. I could easily be mistaken, however.

If some of you are too ignorant to realise it is what your president has done that is causing these opinions to come your way you need to wake up and start looking at what impact your country has on other people.

 

[burner69]

Unfortunatly, in saying what you've said there, you've shown you are everything people hate about americans. WHY do YOU have the right to let us on the internet?

Apologies, when I said Americans there - I was generalising on people's opinions of them. Saying that you are everything people hate about Americans - I meant, you are filling in the stereotype some people have of you.

 

[Absinthe]

Well if you think so lowly of us, Im glad you're not here. I really dont want to deal with people who consider all Americans stupid. Well, in your case I'm sure you meant only the Americans that voted for Bush.

I believe the American people were duped and that they have priority issues. If you don't agree with that, then okay. But you seem to want to silence this kind of viewpoint.

For somebody that seems to be in love with America and its people, you certainly display some very unamerican qualities. "You think differently, so it's good that you're not in this country". You're a joke.

In any case, I will be over there fairly soon. If you have some problem with this, you better pray that my ass gets snagged up at the airport thanks to the Patriot Act.

 

[burner69]

Well this is what I based it off of. It sounds as though you are bashing Bush supporters for being ignorant of the world and of Bush's policies. I could easily be mistaken, however.

I believe my quote there followed somebody saying something along the lines of "then let america get on with things and leave us alone" when of course Bush's foreign policy affects many people.

I DO NOT think all americans are stupid. I DO NOT think all bush supporters are stupid. Even when mentioning the fact that 70% of Americans thort saddam was in league with terrorists I never said it meant they were stupid. I have mentioned many times the control the media has over people, and if they're told by their president that he was, I'd expect them to believe it.

 

[seinfeldrules]

For somebody that seems to be in love with America and its people, you certainly display some very unamerican qualities. "You think differently, so it's good that you're not in this country". You're a joke.

Well thinking differently and insulting are two different things bud. You seem unable to back away from it. I can feel the love.

Oh and Burner I guess it was just a misunderstanding. Hope you accept my apology. :cheers:

 

[Absinthe]

Well thinking differently and insulting are two different things bud. You seem unable to back away from it. I can feel the love.

Go ahead and focus on that oh-so-damaging comment and ignore the fact you're hypocritical. gj

I'm tired, so I'm going to catch some sleep. If anybody else wishes to pipe in and tell me how I shouldn't be in America or some other such crap, your replies will be met on the morrow.

 

[seinfeldrules]

Burner here is a fairly good article on the actual job growth of the country.

http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=208

Go ahead and focus on that oh-so-damaging comment and ignore the fact you're hypocritical. gj

I told you to stay out because all you are going to do is insult us. It has nothing to do with your point of view on the election. If you can support Kerry without being a jerk about it, then the more power to you.

 

[burner69]

Apology accepted.

The article was interesting, though I'd question some of it.
"It's true that looking at job changes by industry shows lower-paying industries have been growing faster than better-paying industries in recent months. A June 30 story in USA Today -- headlined "Low-wage jobs rise at a faster pace" -- also cites industry-by-industry statistics to document that idea.... But we respectfully disagree: neither the statistics cited by Kerry nor the numbers cited by USA Today really prove the case, for the simple reason that broad industry averages tell nothing about the pay levels of the specific jobs that have been gained or lost within those industries. The USA Today figures tell us there's been a gain in the relatively low-paid restaurant industry -- but can't tell us how many of those new jobs are dishwashers and burger flippers and how many are managers, chefs or wine stewards"

Let's be honest, there has to be more burger flippers than managers in a McDs, or indeed any buisness.

Also let's not forget that since Bush an additional 4.3m people dropped below the poverty line.

I'm being 'closed minded' there on purpose. I agree, the article shows that Bush has not been doing as bad as some of us have made out. But remember I'm on the anti-bush side of the field - if I went around giving both sides of the story there'd be no body to argue with.
I'm anti-bush, btw, mostly because of his foreign policy, but also because after taking in all the information I've been given, altho there is good coming from him, I find the bad outweighs it.

 

[UmbrellaMaster]

Election is over. Nothing can be done now. Bush is stuck with getting the country out of the messes he's gotten us into.

Do I think Kerry was a better candidate? Yeah. I figure by now it's too late to argue who the better candidate is.. everything is over. I'm glad Kerry took it like a man and stepped down, makes me respect him even more.

 

[burner69]

We are not arguing over whether or not Bush should have won. We're arguing, sorry, debating the fact that bush has policies and ideals that are good/bad.

 

[Absinthe]

I told you to stay out because all you are going to do is insult us. It has nothing to do with your point of view on the election. If you can support Kerry without being a jerk about it, then the more power to you.

Is it really so wrong to be ashamed of your fellow Americans? Am I being unpatriotic because I think they made some damned wrong decisions? I think most Americans have priority issues and are gullible. That may be insulting, but it's still what I think of them. I did not reach that conclusion due to some irrational hatred of America.
Put yourselves in my shoes. I believe that the President is a warmongerer, a liar, a person that cheated his way into office, a pusher for theocracy, unintelligent, and acts like a ridiculous cowboy. Thousands of people are dead because of his "miscalculation". And he's just been re-elected by the American people. What conclusion would you come to? That the American people are smart and educated? That they have their priorities in order? Hell no, I'm not. I think they just re-elected one of the worst presidents ever. I'm not going to claim that everything's peachy with Americans when I don't think that's the case.
You want me to shutup about this issue. You want my opinion to stay away from American ears. I interpret this as your defense mechanism. God forbid that your rose-tinted views of America are threatened.

 

[seinfeldrules]

Am I being unpatriotic because I think they made some damned wrong decisions?

No. You are being unpatriotic by calling us a country of fools. It is ok to disagree in a civil manner. You dont do that. You would rather insult then actually help the situation.

I think most Americans have priority issues and are gullible

That is a two way street.

What conclusion would you come to?

Others have a different opinion than me. If Kerry had won I wouldnt call his supporters ignorant, stupid, and gullible. I would disagree with them though.

You want me to shutup about this issue. You want my opinion to stay away from American ears.

No, by all means continue. You can disagree without insulting and degrading the opposition.

 

[Absinthe]

No. You are being unpatriotic by calling us a country of fools. It is ok to disagree in a civil manner. You dont do that. You would rather insult then actually help the situation.

Yes, because it's so insulting to say that most Americans have priority issues and were duped by the government. My friend, if I said "America is full of a bunch of dumb shits", then that would be insulting. When I use words like "gullible", I use them with them with their definitions in mind. If you find an insulting connotation, then that's something on your end. Not mine.

And your idea of "helping" the situation includes everybody joining hands and working together to make a stronger America. While nice, you don't seem to realize that "joining hands" actually means "just learning to accept Bush". That sort of passive attitude of "Oh well" is a dangerous one and is actually what discourages any change. So excuse me if I disagree with you on that one, buddy.

That is a two way street.

Two gay men in a church.

vs.

14,000 deaths.

Please tell me which one is the bigger tragedy.

Others have a different opinion than me. If Kerry had won I wouldnt call his supporters ignorant, stupid, and gullible. I would disagree with them though.

For the record, I never used the word "stupid". But the fact of the matter is that most Bush supporters are ignorant and gullible.

http://archive.salon.com/politics/war_room/2004/10/21/bush_reality/

That is the third time I've posted that god damn link on this forum, and some people still don't seem to get the freakin' message.

No, by all means continue. You can disagree without insulting and degrading the opposition.

I have my opinions of people. I speak them out.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

My friend, if I said "America is full of a bunch of dumb shits", then that would be insulting. When I use words like "gullible", I use them with them with their definitions in mind. If you find an insulting connotation, then that's something on your end. Not mine.

It's not so much that I find it insulting, but just that I consider it to be too generalized. While a vote of 53 to 59 million could speak for nearly half of the country, I dont think you speak for half of those individuals.

In addition, Kerry had around 54 million votes for his party. Last I checked, Bush beat him by approximately 2 or 3 million votes. Despite the electorate, dont you think from the approximate numbers of the Kerry vote, not everyone is gullible?

Sure, your point was dedicated to Bush and his supporters--but compare between some of the good people here, and you'd find that their are bad apples and good apples all over the place. I have to admit, it must be my end. I think its because im American.

And your idea of "helping" the situation includes everybody joining hands and working together to make a stronger America.

I believe Seinfeld was interpreting you to be a US Citizen. Im a little late to the discussion, but im unsure if you clarified that.

In the case your not, as I will interpret, joining hands to make a stronger world is a much better emphasis. Hopefully, Foreign Relations would change.

While nice, you don't seem to realize that "joining hands" actually means "just learning to accept Bush".

I dont think you could tell him that. Well, you could outright tell him that, but I dont think your telling him the truth of his point.

From my perspective, it existed as, "So, Bush is in power. People disagree with him. Sometimes, I disagree with him. So, if people want to change the situations, how about joining hands together when problems come along, much rather then seperating ourselves like scared sheep."

IMHO

That sort of passive attitude of "Oh well" is a dangerous one and is actually what discourages any change. So excuse me if I disagree with you on that one, buddy.

You best said it. Look below:

If you find an insulting connotation, then that's something on your end. Not mine.

I have to say, if your indeed insulted, its for the wrong reasons. His behavior was not passive, yet, his behavior comes out of what he knows. He knows, actively participating with the Government to work out changes, is the way to go. His underlining, was that noone wants to cooperate, because they frauth at the mouth of bush being elected.

I know your reasons, but we cant just leave ourselves at the day he was elected. We have to move on, but we must move on, cooperatively, and willingly enough, to be united and to challenge our government when it needs it.

Your of the opinion it does, so I think what im saying here is, you dont have to accept bush, but lets work together to correct his mistakes.

You may fill in your ideas here: X

Two gay men in a church.

vs.

14,000 deaths.

Please tell me which one is the bigger tragedy.

This is indeed relative, and too easy to categorize.

Deaths, and Rights, are two very different things. Men, live, with or without rights, unless the right determined removes their right to live.

So in essence, I believe its not which is worse, but which is more connected to the next. I think why Gay Marriage was such a huge rise in our social context, was that, if enacted, it would be able to break through some minority and sexual orientation barriers too taboo for our country.

When you bring into persepctive 14,000 deaths, its a completely different issue, based on what caused them--but I argue that the removal of rights, is infact, like 14,000 deaths. The death of rights, is to the death of man.

But the fact of the matter is that most Bush supporters are ignorant and gullible.

Some others have that same opinion about Kerry supporters. You can disagree, but when you do so, let me tell you retorts that are either harsh, nor constructive, dont add much to your point.

Not that you did'nt have one, I got it. But, I think we all could've not needed the rheotoric of generalized opinion.

I have my opinions of people. I speak them out.

Much the same, Seinfeld will too. You cant get mad with him on this basis, as you've pushed for members to acknowledge your viewpoints will come and go, unrestricted.

I think you can expect the same back, and Seinfeld was pressing for you too realize, its not a good idea to "hardball" it out.

Getting your points accross, does'nt always mean either of the parties legitimatize flamming or ironical references/comical pointouts.

It suites no other purpose then for entertainment, and some of these arguements, are'nt entertaining at all.

 

[Absinthe]

Sure, your point was dedicated to Bush and his supporters...

Indeed it was.

When I speak of the American people, I speak in terms of the majority. Yes, that is generalizing. But I do it for my sake. I'd rather get to the point than consume time with qualitative drivel.

I believe Seinfeld was interpreting you to be a US Citizen. Im a little late to the discussion, but im unsure if you clarified that.

I am a US citizen.

And I pray that foreign relations change. Because it currently stands, America is either kicking somebody in the ass or letting them talk to the wind.

I dont think you could tell him that. Well, you could outright tell him that, but I dont think your telling him the truth of his point.

From my perspective, it existed as, "So, Bush is in power. People disagree with him. Sometimes, I disagree with him. So, if people want to change the situations, how about joining hands together when problems come along, much rather then seperating ourselves like scared sheep."

IMHO

How exactly can we join hands together? The White House is Republican. The Senate is Republican. The majority is Republican. And their agenda is heavily conservative. You can't just buddy up when both sides have such different viewpoints. I would think that the large outcries against Bush in the United States would be a sign that they don't want to give the man leeway. I don't blame them.

As the way Bush currently is, I hope his opposers dig their feet into the ground and don't budge. If Bush would, however, change some of his policies, I'd be willing to be more cooperative.

The problem is that Bush is in his control. He's got the majority on his side. Chances are that he isn't going to change shit. And even if tries, it's going to take a lot of water to wash his hands clean of the mess he's made.

I have to say, if your indeed insulted, its for the wrong reasons. His behavior was not passive, yet, his behavior comes out of what he knows. He knows, actively participating with the Government to work out changes, is the way to go. His underlining, was that noone wants to cooperate, because they frauth at the mouth of bush being elected.

I think I've said this before. I believe that cooperation in this instance is just giving in.

And you misinterpreted some of what I said. I don't feel insulted. I said that when I make my comments, they are not to be insulting. What he sees as insulting is his interpretation. It's something screwing up on his end.

I know your reasons, but we cant just leave ourselves at the day he was elected. We have to move on, but we must move on, cooperatively, and willingly enough, to be united and to challenge our government when it needs it.

If you ask me, Bush has done enough to warrant being challenged by his people.

I repeat: Bush needs to change things. IMO, he needs to change a lot of things, but I know that, realistically, it would only be a few. If he can display change and some god damn maturity by admitting that at least some shit has gone pear-shaped, then I'd be willing to give it a go. I'd still despise the man, but my cooperation he'd still receive.

This is indeed relative, and too easy to categorize.

Deaths, and Rights, are two very different things. Men, live, with or without rights, unless the right determined removes their right to live.

So in essence, I believe its not which is worse, but which is more connected to the next. I think why Gay Marriage was such a huge rise in our social context, was that, if enacted, it would be able to break through some minority and sexual orientation barriers too taboo for our country.

When you bring into persepctive 14,000 deaths, its a completely different issue, based on what caused them--but I argue that the removal of rights, is infact, like 14,000 deaths. The death of rights, is to the death of man.

Yes, they are different things. But one has much more impact than the other. One affects the world. And one also more presence.

Gay marriage killed nobody.

Is gay marriage an issue? Yes. But now is not the time for it.

Some others have that same opinion about Kerry supporters. You can disagree, but when you do so, let me tell you retorts that are either harsh, nor constructive, dont add much to your point.

Of course they can say the same about Kerry supporters. The difference is that they don't have the numbers to back them up.

If they do, then please point them out to me.

Not that you did'nt have one, I got it. But, I think we all could've not needed the rheotoric of generalized opinion.

Rhetoric? I invite him to challenge my opinions and arguments. There's very little that is rhetorical in my posts.

Much the same, Seinfeld will too. You cant get mad with him on this basis, as you've pushed for members to acknowledge your viewpoints will come and go, unrestricted.

I think you can expect the same back, and Seinfeld was pressing for you too realize, its not a good idea to "hardball" it out.

Seinfeld has spent a good deal of his time telling people how they either shouldn't be in America how they shouldn't consider themselves American.

I don't get mad with him on the basis of his opinions. As an American, he's entitled to speak his mind. That does not, however, stop him from being hypocritical. When you put emphasis on American values, only to whirl around and tell people why they shouldn't be a part of his country, then he will be called up for his contradictions, regardless of wether or not it's his right to say such things.

Because it's also my right to call him a hypocrite.

Getting your points accross, does'nt always mean either of the parties legitimatize flamming or ironical references/comical pointouts.

It suites no other purpose then for entertainment, and some of these arguements, are entertaining at all.

I don't expect to change the world through this forum. Especially on a gaming one. As I've stated before (perhaps in another topic), this is my form of ventilation. This is also my form of entertainment. It is something that I do in my spare time.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Indeed it was.

When I speak of the American people, I speak in terms of the majority. Yes, that is generalizing. But I do it for my sake. I'd rather get to the point than consume time with qualitative drivel.

So, its all about you, correct? Fine. Then its all about him, too. Its all about me. Its all about, all of us in this country.

I think the original thread author intended for us to debate or discuss why or why not its for us, in this country. Since you've admitted your not one for facts, as you've again, generalized over some nice people out there as qualitative drivel, I cant say I'll waste my time trying to convince you otherwise.

Your points are now not taken. I cant say I'd bother much with you any further.

 

[Absinthe]

Way to take things out of context and make a mountain from a mole hill.

Not one for facts? Aside from a generalization, my arguments have been entirely based on the facts. But go ahead, you can focus on that one little statement I made, misinterpret it, and then invalidate me in your eyes.

Don't wanna bother with me? Okey dokey! I really wasn't looking forward to your enlightenment any way.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Don't wanna bother with me? Okey dokey! I really wasn't looking forward to your enlightenment any way.

Pah! Then why'd you reply? I dont feel anymore important then I did before my posts.

Its your choice wether or not to listen, im just posting now, to tell you, im willing to listen to you further, so long as its equally shared from your will.

 

[Absinthe]

You're really not much better when it comes to your feelings of superiority.

If Bush wants cooperation, then he needs to admit to the problems and try to make amends with other nations. Most important of all, however, is that he needs to rethink his agenda. At the moment, it is only alienating the other half of the country. You know, the people that didn't vote for him. If he's at all sincere about healing the divisions within America, then he'll recognize that some of his policies require altering. Those that disagree with him may be the minority, but they are very sizable and they are still relevant.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

I have'nt admitted or pressed for superiority. You seem to believe every attempt of me trying to get you calmed and /endranting is just my way of undermining your logic or attacking you.

I have'nt accused you of anything but selfish, of which, you admitted.

Yes, that is generalizing. But I do it for my sake. I'd rather get to the point than consume time with qualitative drivel.

My problem, comes from you not willing to accept where we could discuss this topic.

If every one of your post begins with an insult to me, I can say im sorry if thats how you feel im trying to talk to you, but it is not my intent.

 

[Absinthe]

I have'nt admitted or pressed for superiority. You seem to believe every attempt of me trying to get you calmed and /endranting is just my way of undermining your logic or attacking you.

I have'nt accused you of anything but selfish, of which, you admitted.

Selfish? I don't support Bush because I think he's detrimental to the count-

Oh, you're talking about my generalization? I do not see selfishness in that. I generalized that bit due to ease of use, not because I just want to find a way to bash Americans. After all, generalizations are used for simplification. There's no selfishness in that at all.

So aside from that instance, where have I admitted to being selfish?

My problem, comes from you not willing to accept where we could discuss this topic.

If every one of your post begins with an insult to me, I can say im sorry if thats how you feel im trying to talk to you, but it is not my intent.

I'm sorry, but I just didn't understand what you said right there.