Diablo 3 announced

[alehm]

I think they should stop whining and let blizzard do what they've been known to do best, make games that people lose relationships, wives, and jobs to.

The fans should also realize that the original Diablo team just made a dark as hell (pun intended) game called Hellgate. If they want dark, they can go play that game and leave Diablo III alone.

QFT-


10char

 

[Adrik_Senturu]

Just think if the entire thing were to be an emo-noir superdark wash. The first 10 minutes, all the whiny ******s'll be appeased and believe it's their dreams come true. Two hours later, everyone'll be complaining that there's not enough variation to the experience; everything feels the same because you either can't see shit or it's navy blue on black with some dark brown mixed in.

Having the current graphics'll mean you can have all sorts of creepy dungeons with different shades to subtly hint at different evils, on top of having an idyllic paradise to provide contrast, that progressively becomes more hellish as evil takes over.

People are such short-sighted, whiny ******s.

 

[Sedako]

So with that being said, stfu.

What's wrong, angry because my opinion differs from yours? All I can say is, if Tristram doesn't end up looking anywhere as atmospheric and creepy as this concept suggests, then I think it's safe to assume that all hope is lost:

 

[Adrik_Senturu]

What's wrong, angry because my opinion differs from yours?

If you think I am angry you are grossly mistaken.

 

[TCfromBN]

What Sedako said.

Also, Why would you tell people to go play a different game, if all they wanted was a continuation of the atmosphere if the Diablo universe?

 

[Adrik_Senturu]

Also, whose to say it wont look like that? Like Ive said about 5 million times we saw 20 minutes of the game. 20 Minutes.

Im sure you're going to have your dark and gritty if that concept art is anything to go by.

Which reminds me, Blizzard has some terrific dark fantasy artists working on this project:

 

[TCfromBN]

Also, whose to say it wont look like that? Like Ive said about 5 million times we saw 20 minutes of the game. 20 Minutes.[/IMG]

Everybody knows that. Nobody's said that the rest of the game won't (doesn't?) look like that. All we're hoping for is less of what they've shown and more of the grit and grime.

 

[Adrik_Senturu]

Well from the way some people are putting it, they're making it sound like Hell is gonna look like disneyworld.

And to get away from this whole lolgraphics discussion,

I hope they force us to use the majority of our skills, or atleast a good number of them so it doesnt turn into another 1.10 with the whole min/max bullshit.

 

[alehm]

What Sedako said.

Also, Why would you tell people to go play a different game, if all they wanted was a continuation of the atmosphere if the Diablo universe?

What continuation?

Diablo ran in 256 colors, a limited color palette to begin with. This is when the game was the darkest. When more colors were available in Diablo 2 the game was brighter. People complained about that in Diablo 2.

Diablo 3 is different from both of them so now you have 3 different atmospheric camps of the Diablo universe.

 

[CyberPitz]

Everybody knows that. Nobody's said that the rest of the game won't (doesn't?) look like that. All we're hoping for is less of what they've shown and more of the grit and grime.

unfortunately, no, people are jumping to conclusions and sounding bloody retarded along with it. Nobody said, "We would like to see more of the game, so we can see some grit!" they are saying "OMG THIS GAME IS FREAKING WoW CHANGE IT NOW!"

Honestly, I wish everybody would just stfu about this. Blizzard is making the game, not you, and if you don't want to buy the game over a few textures, good riddance.

 

[Dalamari]

I don't want to see anymore of this game, I'd rather be surprised

I'm buying it, even though you lot are going on about "TOO BRIGHT MUST BE MORE DARK SHIT****"

 

[Adrik_Senturu]

Just realized, It hasnt even been a week. Think about that. What the **** are we going to do.

 

[CyberPitz]

The world will come to a grinding halt when the Diablo fans go apeshit and start to raise hell.

 

[Sedako]

What we have seen is a dungeon. In Diablo 2, dungeons were always dimly lit, with grime, blood and sometimes corpses adorning the walls and floor. You were often surrounded by darkness, as it should be in a place with very few light sources. The 2D textures seemed to pop out at you, and were very well defined. It all boiled down to a great atmosphere:

Now compare them to the dungeon we've seen, which seems to be plagued by a green haze:

The cobwebs, broken floor tiles, candle smoke... all the little details look great. But in the end, it's missing a lot of the atmosphere and texture that made Diablo 2 unique. Sure, we've only seen 20 minutes, but this is a first impression. A lot can drawn from first impressions, including the animations (which are excellent), combat, art, and overall feel of the game. Don't tell me it's not possible to preserve the look of the past games while updating it to rival the visuals of modern games.

EDIT: I'd be happy to end this discussion, but when someone comes along and challenges my opinions, I'm not one to back down.

 

[Adrik_Senturu]

The main protagonist of Diablo 3 are the fans themselves, holyshi-

Also Sedako:

Glad I did too, but before I go:

Everyone is taking a handful of areas, introduction areas which aren't meant to be the most visceral in the game, completely out of context. Much like I took those shots of Jacob's Ladder out of context. Is Jacob's Ladder an ineffective horror movie because it has scenes with rich colors?

Creating an effective atmosphere of horror/violence/evil does not require you to use desaturated, over-contrasted tones. In many situations, using colored lighting (especially greenish hues) can provide an equally, if not more effective environment.

The artists at Blizzard are very experienced, and know what they're doing. They didn't gain their popularity by being naive. Just because the game has a more Dali-esque palette, in a starting area in a demo that's unfinished with probably non-finalized lighting, in no way invalidates it.

So with that being said, stfu.

Colors aren't a bad thing bruski.

 

[CyberPitz]

It's very possible to continue along the art telling ways of good ol' D2. They may even do that on different levels. The only thing we can do is wait and see what they do, instead of spouting off what you wish could happen, because honestly, it's getting really old already.

 

[Sedako]

I never said they should do away with all the colors. Hell, look at the edit I made, did I kill all the color in that? No, I just added some shadows and got rid of the awful green haze and WoW-esque gargoyles. I'm not opposed to color as long as they don't go overboard.

 

[Adrik_Senturu]

Exactly. Change is a good thing.

And besides, any game where a miniboss grabs a player rips him in half with flesh stretching all over and then showering blood all over said monsters chest can have as many ****ing colors as it wants.

 

[Sedako]

Exactly. Change is a good thing.

And besides, any game where a miniboss grabs a player rips him in half with flesh stretching all over and then showering blood all over said monsters chest can have as many ****ing colors as it wants.

I did enjoy the boss fight very much, and that's exactly what I'd like to see in a Diablo game.

 

[Adrik_Senturu]

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3168498

Interview with Diablo 3 designer Leonard Boyarsky, who was a co-founder of Troika and also worked on the Fallout series

1UP: Just for clarification, can you describe your role in the Diablo III team?

Leonard Boyarsky: I'm the lead world designer; I'm responsible for the lore, the history, making sure we're not violating old stuff while also bringing in new stuff, and how all of that relates to quests. I'm working with a great quest designer, Michael Chu. It's not a clean line; I work on quests with him while he works on the world with me. I help with everything that's game design, but not number crunching. Even with something like item creation or armor creation, there's the gameplay system stuff, but there's also "where does this come from?" So the art team comes to me and asks, "What should this armor look like? Why?" in addition to talking with Jay and the other designers with questions like, "How thick should this armor be" or "how should this armor look overall?" ...

1UP: Since you've worked on games like Fallout and Arcanum, can you talk about how your background in hardcore RPG design contributes to the design of the action-heavy Diablo III?

LB: Since you didn't catch the world design panel, this isn't going to be information you heard already. But in the panel, we talked about how you can argue that an action game doesn't really need a story. I would then argue that even if you have an action game that concentrates on the action, if you have that story layer in there -- which is opt-in of course because a bunch of players won't care about the story in that type of game -- but if it's there for the people who do care, or if it informs all the art and the mood and the way people talk in the game, I think it comes across to the player. Even those who only peripherally encounter it through their quests, it gives them something to care about. They're not only caring about the next piece of armor or the next level, but if we're doing out job right, they're going to care about the next plot point. That's where I come in.

Granted, there's not going to be any dialogue trees, but that just means I have to be inventive with the "how do I present this story" challenge. Another thing I talked about this in this morning's panel is adventures. These are random events we can switch in and out in the outdoor worlds. They're scripted; for example, I can follow a trail of dead bodies to this huge mound of decimated corpses, and there's this warrior in a zen-meditation on top, just kicking it. Immediately I know a lot about this guy. I don't have to get into a long conversation tree with him. So this system really helped me rethink and follow the "show, don't tell" motif. Look at my background, and you know where I'm coming from. I have to think, "Okay, how do I get the kinds of things I like to do into the hands of a player who just wants to kill Diablo and have them be satisfied with it." I think if we present it right, and we don't put it in their path in a "you can't go on until you read this lore book," but rather do things like drop in a little adventure that might give them a clue to how to play the game better, it may also tweak their interest a bit and make them look into the story a bit more...

LB: Well, the quests themselves will have a lot to do with the story. Also, consider this: There's obviously a main story arc. But there are many other kinds of stories; there's the world as a story in and of itself. The characters for each class come from different civilizations with different backgrounds. So they all have different motivations for being where they are -- not only motivations, but traditions and philosophies and even ethics, perhaps. And NPCs will react differently to these characters. These characters have story arcs of their own; whether you choose to pursue them or not will be up to you. So that adds to the story.

In terms of the main story, I was surprised by how deep the Diablo story actually is, but we needed to work on the delivery. I believe a conversation is much better than a monologue. I think people tuned out during the story stuff in the previous games, and that's one reason we went with a conversation system for this one. When you have a guy talking at you for five minutes, you just tune out and say, "Just give me the quest." Plus you have the problem of trying to explain everything in that monologue. With a conversation, you just need to work out how to have two characters talk about what needs to be done in such a way as to give the player all the information he needs without making it into a long drawn-out story monologue. "Show, don't tell" as much as possible.

The quests are going to reinforce both the main story and the lore. The reason you're out on these quests is to investigate what's happened. If you care why you're doing the quests, that will bring you to the story then.

So hopefully this means quests wont just be an excuse to go kill things.

 

[CyberPitz]

I never said they should do away with all the colors. Hell, look at the edit I made, did I kill all the color in that? No, I just added some shadows and got rid of the awful green haze and WoW-esque gargoyles. I'm not opposed to color as long as they don't go overboard.

I'm not saying you specifically. I mean the whole general base out there. I saw your edit, and yours is what I, actually, expect it to look closer to near the end.

 

[Sedako]

I'm wondering to what extent they're going to implement the quests. Diablo 2's quests served to advance the story and reward the player with items, stats or services. The only quest the really resulted in experience was the one concerning the ancients. Also, with 6 quests for acts 1-3 and 5, and 3 for act 4, there really weren't many at all.

 

[Que-Ever]

I just hope they don't go like Dungeon Siege 2 where every damn character in the game gave you a quest. That was just tedious, especially the ones where you had to find like, twenty ghosts and help them go free or whatever.

 

[Adrik_Senturu]

Well they did say that each class will have class specific quest, So im totally looking foward to some kind of "Redemption of The Barbarians" or something happening with the barbarian. Im sure they'll have enough quests to keep you in the area instead of just shooting through story quests to get to the ending.

 

[Sedako]

Well they did say that each class will have class specific quest, So im totally looking foward to some kind of "Redemption of The Barbarians" or something happening with the barbarian. Im sure they'll have enough quests to keep you in the area instead of just shooting through story quests to get to the ending.

I hadn't heard of that. Class specific quests would be a great addition. Anything that enhances the replayability of the most replayable game series in history is good in my book.

 

[Adrik_Senturu]

Just hope the classes don't end up how they are on D2 now. A few uber builds with everything else pretty much sucking after nightmare.

 

[Sedako]

Just hope the classes don't end up how they are on D2 now. A few uber builds with everything else pretty much sucking after nightmare.

Yeah, I hear you. And with only 5 classes right off the bat, the potential is even greater depending on how they plan to design the skills. A lot of the off-beat builds are very fun, but one you get to hell/mfing/pvp, the fun is quickly replaced by frustration. Flagship tried to address this in Hellgate, but their skill system ended up as an unbalanced mess.

 

[CyberPitz]

Blizzard tried to remedy the whole "uber build" situation with synergys. Obviously didn't work \=

 

[Sedako]

Blizzard tried to remedy the whole "uber build" situation with synergys. Obviously didn't work \=

As far as character development, synergys were a step in the right direction though. They allow you to put skill points into an ability that you'll use for the first 30-40 levels or so, and you won't have wasted those skill points later on when you switch to a new ability that has a synergy with the old one.

Edit: All this discussion makes me think that we should have a Diablo sub-forum, or at least a Blizzard related one. The mods should kill the Bioshock one if clutter is a issue.

 

[Adrik_Senturu]

Although blizzard fixed quite a few problems with the synergy patch it really forced people into VERY specific builds, and they even made enemies harder at the same time. Now sorcs had to focus on one elemental tree or they were completely gimped, but they weren't able to solo in hell anymore unless MFing in specific areas. Characters had to focus on one single skill or line of skills instead of diversifying. Synergies were a good idea but very poorly implemented in my opinion.

 

[TCfromBN]

but they weren't able to solo in hell anymore unless MFing in specific areas.

I can solo everything in the game but ubers.

 

[Sedako]

I can solo everything in the game but ubers.

Perhaps your specific character and build can, but what about a frenzy Barb, or martial arts Assassin, or even the modern Bowazon? Only a select few builds now are able to do everything will little effort. For those people that want to try a less common build, the result is often undesirable.

 

[Adrik_Senturu]

probably a bad example then, but yeah point still stands, everyone has to focus on these very specific builds to even be able to do that.

 

[CyberPitz]

Yeah, you can't be experimental with skills, because it's obvious what will happen in the end. Either it's going to rock *All of those builds are documented and discussed everywhere.* or everything else will just suck dick in mid nightmare.

 

[StardogChampion]

What we have seen is a dungeon. In Diablo 2, dungeons were always dimly lit, with grime, blood and sometimes corpses adorning the walls and floor. You were often surrounded by darkness, as it should be in a place with very few light sources. The 2D textures seemed to pop out at you, and were very well defined. It all boiled down to a great atmosphere:

http://newd2event.net/img/maps/act1/Catacombs.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w47/Loz999s/Golemancer/57_Endugu.jpg
http://newd2event.net/img/maps/act3/LowerKurast.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j134/CodeMaster2/shot3.jpg
http://newd2event.net/img/maps/act3/DuranceofHate.jpg
http://newd2event.net/img/maps/act2/HallsoftheDead.jpg
http://newd2event.net/img/maps/act2/TalRashasTomb.jpg
http://newd2event.net/img/maps/act5/hallsofvaught.jpg

Now compare them to the dungeon we've seen, which seems to be plagued by a green haze:

http://www.blizzard.com/diablo3/_images/screenshots/ss24.jpg
http://www.blizzard.com/diablo3/_images/screenshots/ss19.jpg
http://www.blizzard.com/diablo3/_images/screenshots/ss2.jpg

The cobwebs, broken floor tiles, candle smoke... all the little details look great. But in the end, it's missing a lot of the atmosphere and texture that made Diablo 2 unique. Sure, we've only seen 20 minutes, but this is a first impression. A lot can drawn from first impressions, including the animations (which are excellent), combat, art, and overall feel of the game. Don't tell me it's not possible to preserve the look of the past games while updating it to rival the visuals of modern games.

That post sums it up. The stones in D1/2 actually look rough. If you drag your hand down them it'd actually feel bumpy, even on the flatter surfaces. D3's textures are way too smooth. I never thought I'd actually want someone to use a Photoshop noise filter.

 

[Adrik_Senturu]

Another thing Im hoping they address is Uniques. In D1 you had uniques but they're were plenty of rare items that you could get that were better, so uniques weren't always the best stuff available. D2 rolls along and you have stuff like Stone of Jordan destroying the entire economy and welp.

 

[Sedako]

Another thing Im hoping they address is Uniques. In D1 you had uniques but they're were plenty of rare items that you could get that were better, so uniques weren't always the best stuff available. D2 rolls along and you have stuff like Stone of Jordan destroying the entire economy and welp.

Back before the patch that introduced an assault of powerful runewords (Enigma, BotD), there were some very powerful rare items that people had found, which were miles above any unique that was in the game at that point. The runewords were the real culprit that made high end rares obsolete.

 

[Adrik_Senturu]

Yeah forgot about that. I remember you could dupe runes safely, because once they were in the item they were safe and wouldn't disappear like some items would if you ran into a game with someone who had the same item ID as you.

 

[TCfromBN]

Rares are still some of the most valuable items on b.net. There are very powerful helms for some druid builds that are rares, also for paladins and sorcs.

Also, about duping, every single time you join a game or leave a game, there is a soft scan for each item that checks for dupes. On ladder, every once in a blue moon, they do a hard scan that even scans offline characters and deletes runes and items alike. Despite popular belief, socketing a duped rune does not safeguard it from poofing. With this hard scan, items with duped runes poof.

I'll edit in with reference as soon as i find the page again.


Edit: The entire thread is here.

9. Can socketed runes poof?

Yes, they can. Socketing a dupe protects it from "Passive Ruststorm" which is run when you enter and exit games. There is, however, nothing that can be done to save your precious dupes from the wrath of the Full Ruststorm. If your duped Enigma did survive, you were simply lucky, or you were on non-ladder where Full Ruststorm has never been run.
Ortliebj said it best:

Full Ruststorm v2.5 will delete "dirty" items, even if they are components of other items. Full Ruststorm was last run in August of last year (2nd week, iirc).

It will also delete items that have been tampered with in attempts to fool the Ruststorm process. In other words, personalizing your Engima won't help, so don't even try it. All eleven different attempts/strategies of which I am aware to try and circumvent this process have failed.


When a full active Ruststorm is actually run, illegitimate items of types you've never even dreamed about will be deleted and/or invalidated.

If you have had an item disappear from your inventory, it most likely was a dupe that Ruststorm caught.

 

[Adrik_Senturu]

Really? Im pretty sure runewords were safe from this but yeah I haven't played in a while only got back in recently since the announcement.