Ditch The Cheats

[Homer]

Oh ffs. I always connect to the lowest ping server with a decent amount of players.

I don't notice anyone hacking at all.

Want to know why?

IT'S CALLED NOT GIVING A F***!

You honestly consider a person a hacker everytime you die?

My friend, that is just SAD. I hope you find help soon.

And you making these accusations, would, according to you, make you an "asshole", no?

You really need to get on with your life. Why is it that I never encounter hackers? And if one if really obvious, how hard is it to MOVE TO A DIFFERENT FCKNG SERVER!?

I think I have said just about everything I've got...

But with Homer's unpredictable lack of logic, I am sure he can squeeze a few more drops out of me.

Apparently your aren't aware of some of the more modern hacks. It is not uncommon for someone to join up and kill both teams in 3 or 4 seconds with a speed hack. You can not ignore that.

And what if I were willing to just go find a different server? I play there for 4 minutes before some other asshole joins up and pulls the same shit? That doesn't really matter anyway, because I played on a single server with a group of friends. Moving 9 people from server to server dodging hackers is not exactly practical.

 

[Eon Blue]

Interestingly enough, that last sentence is the perfect wording for what you need to do about this cheating business.

lol. Take your own advice, Homer. Just give it up.

The problem lies in other people in not knowing how to combat it.
If it's not in your ability to find a new server, don't come here and bitch about it because YOU are too anal to just know when to quit. If you take gaming this seriously, you have a problem.

I'm about to go play Day of Defeat. Wanna join me?

 

[Homer]

lol. Take your own advice, Homer. Just give it up.

The problem lies in other people in not knowing how to combat it.
If it's not in your ability to find a new server, don't come here and bitch about it because YOU are too anal to just know when to quit. If you take gaming this seriously, you have a problem.

I'm about to go play Day of Defeat. Wanna join me?

The problem lies with people being willing to partake in it in the first place.

And how can you say that I take gaming to seriously because I think you shouldn't try to **** it up for other people? Its a bloody game.

Just play it.

Why do you need to ruin it for everyone else?

 

[Eon Blue]

. . . I'll take that as a no.

 

[Homer]

Why the hell would I play dod with someone who admits he cheats? Seriously?

 

[GodlessPagan]

I love Half-Life and CS.

I hate cheats.

When I read of all the hacking and cracking that some people do, bearing in mind that it affects what I love and the people that strive to maintain it and improve on it, I get really pissed off.

You only have to read these very forums to see that some people would be quite happy to install a cracked CS source or HL2 game....if they thought they would get away with it. And maybe they will, for now.

Some of them think it's smart to play online with a "little help".

Cmon, what's the point.

I think cheats are in the minority and are either too stupid, too skint or too ego driven to play fairly, but tbh thats no excuse.

Maybe we have to find some way of working together. ( The ones that pay, I mean )

It's not even expensive is it?

There must be some way of eradicating this through the Steam vehicle, surely.

Anyway, I just wanted to say, I hate cheats...all kinds.



And yes, the [Return] key is my favourite.

Right on!

Cheats suck hard.

 

[Eon Blue]

Why the hell would I play dod with someone who admits he cheats? Seriously?

Because I have the respect for DoD that I have for HL2. I would NEVER participate in any illegal leak, beta, build, anything of HL2. I would NEVER cheat at DoD.

But you won't believe that, anyway

 

[Homer]

Because I have the respect for DoD that I have for HL2. I would NEVER participate in any illegal leak, beta, build, anything of HL2. I would NEVER cheat at DoD.

But you won't believe that, anyway

No, I won't.

But I will say that cheating seems to be mostly a cs problem in my experience. I was admin on a dod and cs server at the same time, and on the dod server I only had to ban 3 or 4 people. And those bans were all for behaving like morons.

On the cs server I had to ban 6 or 7 people a ****ing DAY. That is, until the server was finally killed by all the hackers(including a few who for the longest time we all though were legit). People just stopped playing there.

 

[Eon Blue]

I'll put it on my word as a man who loves HL that I have never, never once cheated at Day of Defeat.

 

[Homer]

I'll put it on my word as a man who loves HL that I have never, never once cheated at Day of Defeat.

I'm happy for you?

I like to kick kittens, but I have never once kicked a white one.

 

[Eon Blue]

Lol. I see your point.

 

[alanschu]

All right then, where to start?

I suppose I should clarify some things about me. I started playing Counterstrike during Beta 2. I have never cheated in the game, even back in the gl_zmax days when it was so easy to do. In fact, I quit playing the game shortly after it went retail because of the cheating. I have come back to play for short stints, but nothing major because of, again, the cheating.


I guess I'll start with the clarifying of Absinthe's point, since that seems to be so controversial.


Absinthe stated repeatedly that he did not feel that someone could make an assessment about the personality of someone simply based upon cheating.

Here are the quotes:

Cheating is bad, but you're in no position to make sweeping statements about cheaters being losers or bad people, as if every cheater is some kind of sick piece of scum that likes to cause shit in real life as well.

Yeah, and what would the truth be? Cheaters are sick and demented losers that always depend on illegal/immoral routes throughout their lives? That's bull, and you know it.

See, here his point is about how it is "bull" to classify cheaters as sick and demented losers

I'm not trying to justify cheating. I'm just saying that your demonizing of cheaters is ridiculous.

Yeah, it's immature. It's wrong. It should be stopped.
^^^
For the record, I actually DO agree with that.

But I don't think it warrants the kind of animosity that's generally seen.

And, as I've said repeatedly, you're in no position to judge the cheater as a person

I'm not going to make any assumptions on the guys life because I don't freaking know the guy

And this is only by page 7 of this thread.


Now I'll analyze the arguments from his two biggest opponents in this "debate," sl@yer and Homer:

First off, an interesting point made by sl@yer:

you don't win an arguement by insulting, flaming or carelessly trying to piss off your opponent. You win it by being confident about your point of view, and by staying calm

I particularly like his point considering the majority (if not all...I may have missed one) of his posted contained some sort of derogatory remark towards Absinthe. Whether it be questioning his integrity, his mental capacity, or how witty he is. Considering the persistence of ad hominem remarks in his comments you would think he DID think winning an argument by insulting are carelessly trying to piss of your opponent.

Furthermore, being "confident about your point of view" and "staying calm" does NOT indicate success in an argument. You can be Don Juan with your confidence, but if your facts don't hold up in the argument, it doesn't matter. You could be an anal, screaming rage-a-holic, but if your points are concise and supported by evidence, and better than your confidently incorrect opponent, you will win. (admittedly, a screaming rage-a-holic generally would not present his points in a concise, supported way...but if he could it wouldn't matter).

Absinthe, please know when to shut up. You seem to have a relentless desire to prove yourself right...and can't seem to admit when you're actually wrong. For example, many of your replies have been comments along the lines of "spare me", "whatever" and "okay...what?". If you don't have a decent, justified reply, then don't bother replying

Many of his "dismissive" responses have been because of your apparently failure to understand the point he was debating. Futhermore, you come in with insulting remarks, it is only natural for someone to become "dismissive"....it's a defense mechanism (study same Freud to get an understanding of defense mechanisms).

I admit that there were aspects of my arguement that were flawed, and I misinterpreted a some of what you said....but notice I am admitting this.
Please just have some maturity.

I would grudginly lean towards thinking Absinthe had nothing to admit to being "wrong" about. I also notice the additional insult at the end of your post. I suppose you're right...being insulting DOESN'T win you arguments.

Having a decent amount of morality and conscience means being able to admit you are wrong. Even if what you were saying wasn't entirely wrong, the way you went about it certainly was. I feel that this sarcasm is quite sickening and that you seriously need to grow up. This is also backing up my judgement about your character.

All the morality in the world does not require someone to admit they are wrong if they don't believe they are. Whether or not you agree with his stance, if Absinthe feels his opinion is correct (as most people do), then he obviously wouldn't admit he is wrong since there is nothing to be wrong about.

Sarcasm, while grossly overused and generally used in a derogatory way, is a tool in speech. It is used in such a way to create emphasis about a point, particularly if that person feels the point poor (or "wrong" as you like to say).

As for your judgement about his character...suit yourself I suppose. If a brief interaction with someone that is on the defensive (since he is in the extreme minority here) is all it takes for you to make judgements about that person, then I would wager you are a very shallow person. Furthermore, making assumptions about one's character based on limited interaction is also an immature form of analysis.

Now who's wrongly judging character? I believe that out of the two of us, you are certainly the less mature, and from what you've shown, the less intelligent.

Coming from a man that overuses fallacies in his arguments no doubt.

Will you people stop flaming eachother? This is not a difficult debate to resolve, this is not a logical discussion of the Proletariat, this is a simple issue of right vs wrong.

Cheating is something only an asshole would do.

If you do it then you are a bad person.

If you do it and you think your not a bad person, then you are a stupid bad person.

What exactly is "right" and "wrong." If it were merely a simple issue of right vs wrong, there would be no debate since it would be clear to everyone which was right and which was wrong. Since this debate exists, it's obvious that it isn't clear.

If we're going to go with the standard morality of the Western culture (ASIDE: It is fundamentally flawed to do so, since the "standard" morality need not apply to everyone within that culture), I could argue that judgemental people (i.e. you) are bad people as well.

Imagine 2 circles, one larger than the other. The smaller circle is completely within the larger, and bares the label "Cheaters". The larger circle in turn is labeled "assholes". This may be a easy way to visualize how this works.

That may be your interpretation. But given the subjective nature of right and wrong, to apply your view to everyone else is much more of an asshole thing to do.

I showed you where you were wrong already

You didn't show him were he was wrong. You stated your opinion against his. Considering the very personal, subjective nature of the topic, it is fundamentally impossible to show him that he is "wrong."

A outgoing friendly person that's supportive of his friends and family would not cheat.

This is another catch-all classification. An outgoing, friendly person that's supportive of his friends and family is not incapable of cheating. You are taking an idealized, infalliable interpretation of the individual. If this individual is a big CS fan, and his frustrated by the lack of opportunity....his attempts to "even the playing field" in order to maybe make the game fun again are NOT reflective on his personality. Furthermore, it would also mean that this friendly, supportive person also shared the same views as you about the seriousness of cheating in online gaming. To do such a thing is actually rather arrogant.

You have told me several times to tell you where you were wrong. Instead, why don't you explain to everyone else where you are right.

Fallacy: Burden of Proof

Ignoring the fact that it was his opinion that was being debated, passing the burden off to him is, as I stated, fallacious. There is absolutely no requirement for him to backup his opinion as being right (which he did by the way, although it was with anecdotal evidence which is generally weak at best...but I don't expect much on casual message boards). You have continually commented that he somehow "admit" to how he was "wrong." It illustrates that you actually are not able to show that he is wrong.

If you cant see that cheating is wrong right out of the gate, your moral system has some serious bugs in it.

Except that whether or not cheating is wrong has never been what he was debating.

Fallacy: Strawman

Smoking pot doesnt cause others pain, or ruin others fun. The only people potheads(who dont drive, dont have dependants, and dont have obligations) hurt is themselves. This distinction is not a difficult one, and its not at all hard for most people to make

I'm actually having a hard time determining who fits your classification. Only the most isolated, cutoff potheads would have no dependants or obligations. However, given the context of the rest of your paragraph, you are implying that the majority of marijuana smokers do fit into your category. Furthermore, if I extrapolate that the potheads that do hurt other people are also bad people, you could make the same weak link to other situations. The fact that you smoke means that, most likely, anyone that is dependant to you, or you have any obligation to, is likely going to have to endure, with you, any personal ramifications you have of smoking. Who suffers more: the smoker, or the spouse that watches their partner suffer?

 

[alanschu]

Apparently I needed to shorten my previous post. Don't worry, more ranting here (last post though...and not as long).

And I'm guessing one of them is you from how viamently you are defending this ridiculous notion that cheaters are good people.

They aren't saying that "cheaters are good people." (which, given the way that you say it in your post, claming that they feel ALL cheaters are good people). The point they have been trying to make is that cheating is inconclusive as to what the character of the person is.

If this was some sort of attempt at mocking me... Well, it sucked.

I found it quite effective, but that is besides the point.

Actually, it's more the point than you realize. It illustrates the subjective nature of experience.

I know you well enough to judge you, your personality is transparent on a level you can't even imagine, because if you could you wouldn't behave like you do.

Odd...considering you don't know him at all.

Fallacy: Hasty Generalization

By your line of thinking, I know you well enough to be an inflexible tyrant of experience. If people do not feel the same way you do, then they are wrong and you would rather smash a brick in their face.

A jaywalker is not a bad person or common criminal because, as I already described in relation to your pot comment, they dont do it just to be jackasses.

So someone is only a bad person OR a common criminal because they don't do something to be jackasses? Well, what exactly does it entail to be doing something to be a jackass? Is high-end white-collar coporate crime not "bad" because they don't do it to be jackasses, but rather to maximize their investments?

I already won this debate buddy,

With a slew of personal opinion comments, and derogatory remarks. Wow...j00 > all

Want to take a poll on who won?

Guess you'll have to put another down for Absinthe

The reason this butting heads got old is because you don't have any points.

Compared to the steadfast rhetoric of "Cheating is wrong" that you continue to put forth?

But the very fact that everyone hates it so much indicates that you are wrong.

Ok, I'll admit. This quote in particular is pretty much the main reason why I decided to post, rather than just ignore this thread. First off, this is the stupidest conclusion anyone can make. It's one of the worst fallacies that you can make, and you can even classify it under two:

Fallacy: Appeal to Belief
Fallacy: Appeal to Popularity

By stating your point, you have crippled the credibility of your entire discussion. When someone makes use of one of the worst, and one of the most obvious, fallacies, it becomes much more difficult to take anything they say with any certainty. Do they actually know what they're trying to discuss, or are they just spewing forth their own propaganda because they feel strongly about something and want the rest of the world to feel the same way that they do.

Finally, when you finally snap back with whatever comments you deem necessary just remember: you brought it on yourself.

i'd like to see a cheater in a life and death situation! let's say you challenge him to a duel, would he fight fair? i'd bet my left hand that he would somehow cheat! does Hamlet ring a bell

I'd like to see anyone in that situation. How much honor does anyone truly have. Depending on the situation, I'd wager almost everyone would look for some kind of an upperhand. After all, it would mean he's dead instead of you.

Are you actually compairing the idea that cheating is wrong to slavery? You have the balls to accuse me of a weak argument and at the same time compair people who think cheating is wrong to slave owners? What the hell is wrong with you?

Fallacy: Strawman

He is not comparing cheating to slavery. He is commenting (quite accurately I might add) that simply because something is popular, absolutely does NOT, in ANY way, make it right. You essentially claimed that the majority of people think cheaters are bad, so they must be bad. He merely brought out the slavery example as an analogy to whole inherently flawed (and outright stupid) your analysis and conclusion were.

Oh, and to all of you who say piracy doesn't hurt the industry.

Tell that to:
Looking Glass (RIP)
Black Isle (RIP)
Microprose (RIP)
Cavedog (RIP)
Bullfrog (RIP?)
Origon(RIP)
Synsoft(RIP)
Sir-Tech(RIP)
Gremlin(RIP)
Cinemaware(RIP)

As big of a supporter I am for anti-piracy, I can see two companies on there that died for reasons completely NOT related to piracy: Black Isle and Origin. Both are closed (although Origin still exists) due to excessive mismanagement by their publisher (Interplay and EA).

If I have a weakness, it's that I don't back down easily. I didn't really have the urge to comment on the ground that has been covered already, but just this part:

That is a terrible way to judge right and wrong. Ever heard of slavery? Wasn't there a time when it was just okey-dokey with everybody sans the slaves? Please tell me how right slavery was. I mean, it had to be right! Nobody had a problem with it!
Bringing up the majority in an argument is generally just a way to cop out of coming up with your own freakin' opinion and it undermines your credibility. So do yourself some good and don't do that again.

Not relevant to the topic. I'm just kind of under the influence and felt the need to say that.

Lets let the others on this forum judge for themselves. Anyone care to chime in?

Already did. His point had nothing to do with cheating, but rather your fallacious argument.

Its not that your view is unpopular. Its WRONG.

LOL this has just gotten ridiculous now.

That is why I will not back down on this, and why I have no intention of giving you and inch.

Spoken like a true zealot. At least you're true to your convictions.

We know what you are absinthe, don't you forget it.

Actually...we don't. To classify all cheaters as being the same completely ignores the individual characteristics of each person. But like I said....spoken like a true zealot.

The only people angry about generalizations of cheaters are the cheaters themselves. More and more this topic is making it clear who they are.

Refer back to the beginning of my post. I'm not making this post because I am a cheater or support cheaters. I'm making this post because someone needs to come in and make sure that they don't take the misinformation you spread and espouse onto other people as, in any way, fact.

It means I suspect you of hacking. And lying in view of that denial in your post.

In other words, you are letting your personal feelings and opinions get in the way of the actual debate.

Fallacy: Guilt By Association

"If they aren't against them, they must be with them."

Not all bad people cheat in online games, and not all bad people stay bad people their whole lives. In fact, its usually just a phase people go through around 14

Spoken with what kind of evidence?

everyone here agrees that your wrong with the exception of a few lowly cheaters who don't dare post else they may be found out.

Clearly everyone here agrees that he's wrong


Well, that sums up my critique of this discussion.

Oh, and one more thing, IMO it is a jerk thing to simply go on to a server and ruin everyone's fun by cheating. To each his own I guess.

 

[[sl@yer]]

Thank you for that summary. I can probably agree with most of the points you made about me there....however, I think most of that arguement was down to misunderstanding. I really can't be bothered to go back and read oll of mine and Absinthe's posts, but I am in no doubt that I was hypocrital at several points in the arguement. However, I stand by what I have said. I am willing to accept that I may have misunderstood Absinthe on a number of occasions, and perhaps seen his analogies as meaning something slightly different to what he intended. An arguement is WON by using intelligence and confidence. This is not to say that insults cannot be used, but it seemed that Absinthe didn't feel the need to calmly lay out his arguement at all to benefit those who couldn't see it. I'm sure many of Absinthe's points were valid, I was just starting to get annoyed with how he delivered them. Perhaps I didn't make this clear.

 

[Homer]

Cheating doesn't make you a bad person, being a bad person makes you cheat. Enjoying ruining a game for others is something only a bad person would do. This is very clear, and very simple.

I have said this over and over again in this topic, but there are a few people who seem to think this must be more complex. Well its not.


I guess I need to clarify what I meant by "But the very fact that everyone hates it so much indicates that you are wrong.".
My point was that people cheat because it causes angst amongst players. A counterpoint was made that it doesn't hurt anything. But the very fact that everyone is so bothered by it indicates that it does indeed hurt the community. It hurts the community a lot.


And by the way, alan, if you are going to waste that much space with your logic natzi crap then at the end of the topic state that you agree cheaters are jerks why bother? Honestly? All you did was point out where I should have worded my points differently. All I am trying to do here is to get a couple of cheaters to understand that anonymity doesn't make it ok to be an asshole.

 

[Absinthe]

All I am trying to do here is to get a couple of cheaters to understand that anonymity doesn't make it ok to be an asshole.

Which cheaters would these be.

 

[Homer]

And I also would like to understand why so many people here seem to have trouble understanding that enjoying causing others pain is a bad thing. Its a very bad thing, it is the gateway to the very worst of things. A person who enjoys causing others pain, even if it is just by cheating in a online game, is a bad person. I am really disturbed by the fact that people would say this is simply my opinion, "To each his own" has a place, but this is not it.

 

[Homer]

Which cheaters would these be.

Eon, and you.

And no, I'm not going to dig through the posts to find there ones where you admit that you have hacked(3 years ago or whatever).

 

[Absinthe]

Eon, and you.

And no, I'm not going to dig through the posts to find there ones where you admit that you have hacked(3 years ago or whatever).

So... You really have no grounds for calling us cheaters, correct?

Okay. Just thought I'd clear that up.

 

[Homer]

Eon said it outright, and you said something about 3 years ago or some such crap. Like I said, this is 18 pages long now and I'm not digging up quotes.


*edit* thanks

As somebody who cheated for a long time, I can tell you that I didn't do so because of a lousy ego or because I suck. I'm actually somewhat proficient when it comes to CS.

I just did it because I thought it was fun. And I also liked witnessing the anguish I caused others.

 

[KagePrototype]

I also remember Absinthe saying he used to cheat. [EDIT]: As for the post, it's the second one in the topic.

/me walks away quietly

 

[Absinthe]

Yes, I did admit to cheating years ago. I also used to be a toddler, and I also used to be a baseball player.

I am what I currently am. Not what I used to be. The sooner some people learn this, the better off they will be.

 

[Homer]

If you would care to read my posts a few pages back I already covered that.(I wouldn't, so I'll sum up).

Being a bad person at one point in time does not define that person forever. People do change. Usually the really annoying stuff, like cheating in online games, or peeling out at 2 am in a neiborhood, is just a phase people go through when they are about 15 or 16.

An immature person may be different from a bad person in that the are nearly guaranteed to grow out of the state of morality they currently fall into, but their actions are all to often the same. I did not make this distinction for a simple reason: it does not matter to the people on the other end. The people getting their servers vacated by cheaters don't care if they are 15 or 23. Its all the same.

 

[Devilfish]

Read the whole thread. (my brain feels like it has been raped)

Homer,

Define:

1, A good person.

2, A bad person.

As it appears that from your point of view, these are the only two ways in which you classify people.

By the way, I appreciate that as I am supporting the 'cheaters' argument that I will aslo be labelled a cheater, (bad person) however, I am merely supporting the side of intelligence and reasoning.

 

[Nindoze]

Jesus Christ Absinthe....

 

[CR0M]

Yes, I did admit to cheating years ago. I also used to be a toddler, and I also used to be a baseball player.

I am what I currently am. Not what I used to be. The sooner some people learn this, the better off they will be.

You also admitted downloading and playing the leak in a thread very similar to this one a few months back, where you argued 'til you were blue in the face that it didn't affect Valve in any way and therefore was justifiable.

I'm not accusing anyone of being good, bad, or the ugly - sadly religion dictates that little gem, which has been the bane / equilibrium (depending on where you are in the world) of humanity since the dawn of time. But there does seem to be an unmistakeable pattern in your attitude, either conscious or unconscious, that would indicate a distinct lack of respect for other people, and ultimately that you are still who you were not too long ago. Does this make you a 'bad' person on the whole? no, it's just a trait that isn't very admirable.

We all have them.

 

[Absinthe]

You also admitted downloading and playing the leak in a thread very similar to this one a few months back, where you argued 'til you were blue in the face that it didn't affect Valve in any way and therefore was justifiable.

I'm not accusing anyone of being good, bad, or the ugly - sadly religion dictates that little gem, which has been the bane / equilibrium (depending on where you are in the world) of humanity since the dawn of time. But there does seem to be an unmistakeable pattern in your attitude, either conscious or unconscious, that would indicate a distinct lack of respect for other people, and ultimately that you are still who you were not too long ago. Does this make you a 'bad' person on the whole? no, it's just a trait that isn't very admirable.

We all have them.

Here we go again with the misreadings.

I did not say that downloading the leak was justifiable.

What I said was that downloading the leak does not affect Valve because the damage done begins and ends with the leak itself. It doesn't matter if 100 people or 10000 people download it because Valve is going to have to rewrite their of their coding any way since their security has been compromised.

If you interpret that as a lack of respect for other people, then I don't know what to say. I viewed it just as it is: an explanation as to how downloading the Alpha doesn't damage Valve.

Jesus Christ Absinthe....

Have something to say?

 

[Mr-Fusion]

To bring this horribly back on topic, the best solution from the players perspective is to just play on well-adminned servers. Yes cheats still pop up but i'm usually on irc in a second to get an admin in. No need to rage up because that's what a lot of cheaters love to see.

Get admin - ban, then it's back to having fun.

 

[wonkers]

I feel like I have to put in my own experience with cheating. When I first played CS I quit in like to sittings. Everyone cheated.

Why would I sit there and ****ing die all the time to satisfy the perverse pleasure of a 15YO? So it's simple I didn't. I came back when steam started because I think it lowered the number of cheaters by a bit.

Not really true but I can find fair enough servers. Cheating isn't about ego. It's about deriving pleasure from winning at any cost. Why do people want to win and not loose? It's better that's why. Some people will do whatever it takes to win even cheat.

Kinda like the olympics. It's just a damn game but some people are TOO into it. they invest emotions that don't belong there. When they lose they get their "feelings" hurt. So they cheat.

If you don't care about losing you don't cheat. I admit though I would love to go get some hacks to counter these little punks who I know are too young to drive but think they can piss off the world!

In short. I find good servers. Good admins, and good competition instead of wasting my time on these wastes of skin.

 

[CR0M]

Here we go again with the misreadings.

I did not say that downloading the leak was justifiable.

What I said was that downloading the leak does not affect Valve because the damage done begins and ends with the leak itself. It doesn't matter if 100 people or 10000 people download it because Valve is going to have to rewrite their of their coding any way since their security has been compromised.

The thief published it knowing that it would be downloaded by people like you. You were the fuel, he just had to add the spark. You had the choice not to, but you did, therefore you contributed to the massive confidence hit on Valve.

Regardless of whether you ever understand that or not, I'm using this example not as a means of opening old arguments, but as an indication of your inability to accept responsibility for your actions.

You and Homer also need to learn when to quit


Mr-Fusion - that's all very well, unless the cheats are the clan members who run the server... all too common now.

 

[Absinthe]

The thief published it knowing that it would be downloaded by people like you. You were the fuel, he just had to add the spark. You had the choice not to, but you did, therefore you contributed to the massive confidence hit on Valve.

Oh, I see. Because people like me exist, the Alpha got leaked, thus putting the blame squarely on my shoulders. Or something like that.

I believe the confidence hit was more along the lines "Shit, our hard work is now out there for the world to see" rather than "Our fans betrayed us". If I was Valve, I would have been even more depressed if nobody downloaded the leak, because then it would seem to me as if the community didn't give a shit.

Regardless of whether you ever understand that or not,

That I'm not affecting HL2 development? Yes, I understand that fully.

I'm using this example not as a means of opening old arguments, but as an indication of your inability to accept responsibility for your actions.

This is a recurring thing for you. You seem to think that I'm trying to justify my actions, but I'm not. I'm just telling it how it is. In the topic you were referring to, I stated that I was fully aware of how wrong my actions were, and that should I face reprecussions for it, I would understand. But I am guilty of only downloading property that is not mine. I am NOT guilty of affecting HL2 development.

You're interpreting this as irresponsibility. If you actually took a good look at what I'm saying, you'd see that it isn't the case.

You and Homer also need to learn when to quit

Oh, I've already stopped talking about my stance on cheating, thus cutting off most of my socializing with Homer. Now I'm enduring character analysis with you.

 

[CR0M]

*sigh*

 

[Absinthe]

*sigh*

Yeah, yeah, shake your head at me, because I'm just obviously so wrong and you're just obviously so right. I'm just beyond help.

 

[Kangy]

You are being irresponsible and nasty, because you're ruining everyone else's fun just for your sick little pleasure of seeing people get upset. Doesn't it click that for some people, CS is a way to wind down in the evening, and they enjoy it by playing a fair and even game they can think on?

Do you think you somehow have the right to ruin their hardearned freetime?

No, I bet you didn't, and if you did, you really are an ammoral, twisted shell of a human.

 

[Absinthe]

You are being irresponsible and nasty, because you're ruining everyone else's fun just for your sick little pleasure of seeing people get upset. Doesn't it click that for some people, CS is a way to wind down in the evening, and they enjoy it by playing a fair and even game they can think on?

Do you think you somehow have the right to ruin their hardearned freetime?

No, I bet you didn't, and if you did, you really are an ammoral, twisted shell of a human.

Okay, whoever said that I was doing this?

 

[Jesus Lincoln]

Some mods need to close this, we all hate cheating, but this is just a flame way between absinthe and everyone else

 

[Vegeta897]

Some mods need to close this, we all hate cheating, but this is just a flame way between absinthe and everyone else

Ohhh don't even try to close this! This is the best debate I have seen in a long time!

Ok.. I don't want to get into the leaked build. (even though I do agree with Absinthe)

Homer, and all those who agree with him on the cheating thing-

I don't know what kind of f-ed up servers you guys play on, but I VERY RARELY encounter cheaters.

And if I do, I usually ignore it.

Now, before you bring up the speed hack crap or whatever like you have been OVER AND OVER (One of your problems), Can you do anything about it?

NO. You can't.

So why act like a whoring b!tch about it? Complaining about it won't help. Pretending that everyone who disagrees with you in in this thread hacks won't help.

That is your other problem.

WE ARE NOT SAYING CHEATING ISN'T BAD.

What we ARE saying is: You aren't a bad person because you cheat.

Can you agree with that? I bet atleast one of your friends (If you have any) cheats or has cheated some time in his life.

So, what, now they are "bad people" and they suck?

Hell no my friend. Hell no.

Do you FINALLY see our point?

Haha, if you are going to repeat yourself again, don't bother.

Post when you come up with a new argument. We have heard your old one far too many times, and it's just not relevant.

 

[Interloper]

Someone very clever once said to me; Keep It Simple...Stupid

KISS

Rather than quoting others and sometimes having a bit of a go at each other, maybe we should just either agree or disagree with the argument that something should be done about people that cheat.

I think that most people would agree that cheating is not good.

Even those who have cheated in their past.

I just don't think it's too clever to get personal and judgmental about it, although we are all a bit guilty at times.

Let's all calm down.

Above all else gaming is about fun.



But no cheating please........

 

[Vegeta897]

There was never really any purpose for this thread. Just to vent steam.(No pun)

We all know there is nothing we can do to get rid of cheating.
We can fight it, but that is up the the big guys that made Steam and stuff.

 

[Interloper]

There was never really any purpose for this thread. Just to vent steam.(No pun)

We all know there is nothing we can do to get rid of cheating.
We can fight it, but that is up the the big guys that made Steam and stuff.

I agree with the 2nd paragraph.

Although doing nothing doesn't exactly help either....