Do you believe in a god?

[Absinthe]

It's not so much closeminded as it is completely unsubstantiated though

Atheism unsubstantiated? Atheists aren't making any positive assertion and so they don't need to substantiate their lack of belief.

IRT Uriel - Since when has atheism been pushed as the "fair" view? I've certainly see no such attempt. What you see is a push to maintain secularism in the government body. The government should not advocate any religion (or any private organization for that matter) over others. That would apply just as equally to atheism. Do the words "under God" affect me personally? Not really, but I don't like what it represents, and seeing as the Christian push for ten commandments monuments on government property and other similar faith-pertaining things only arose because of our hostility towards the soviets, I see no reason for it to stay.

IRT Nat - Don't bother with him any more. It's obvious he has no idea what he's talking about and he stopped making any sense for about... forever. If he has a point, he certainly can't convey it in intelligible terms.

 

[Uriel]

Well you are in a Nation founded by Judeo/Christian views, ethics, and principles.

 

[Ikerous]

Atheism unsubstantiated? Atheists aren't making any positive assertion and so they don't need to substantiate their lack of belief.

Athiests hold the firm belief that there is no god... that requires infinite knowledge.. it seems pretty irrational to me :/
Then again i might be missing something

Well you are in a Nation founded by Judeo/Christian views, ethics, and principles.

1.) Many people would beg to differ
2.) We were also founded on slavery; doesn't make it right... things change for the better

yes or no? if you ignore, your answer defaults to yes.

lmao, best debating strategy ever. XD

 

[poseyjmac]

IRT Nat - Don't bother with him any more. It's obvious he has no idea what he's talking about and he stopped making any sense for about... forever. If he has a point, he certainly can't convey it in intelligible terms.

the truth hurts. although i can have you admit that its closedminded by asking you some questions.

Does atheism target one specific supernatural type of entity to deny the existence of out of an infinite amount of supernatural possibilities?

yes or no? if you ignore, your answer defaults to yes.

 

[Nat Turner]

poseyjmac:

The answer is no. I have to say it again: what you are referring to is "anti deism". They are two separate things.

 

[Absinthe]

Well you are in a Nation founded by Judeo/Christian views, ethics, and principles.

1.) I'm in a nation that was founded as secular. "under God" on my dollar bills and the pledge of allegiance were not something to have existed from the beginning.

2.) This nation was also founded by white people. Would it be reasonable to say in this day and age that this should be a country primarily of white ideals?

3.) Who cares? Even if this was founded as a Christian nation, that doesn't mean it always has to be. Views and traditions change over time. If anything, enjoining of the church and state would be against what the founding fathers intended.

 

[Nat Turner]

Uriel:

The word "God" or "religion" doesn't appear even once in the U.S. constitution.

 

[ailevation]

http://www.dudeman.net/siriusly/cyd/city.shtml

^God.

 

[poseyjmac]

poseyjmac:

The answer is no. I have to say it again: what you are referring to is "anti deism". They are two separate things.

anti-deism isn't defined in any dictionary ive seen on the internet, so perhaps you should find a definition as it could help your argument. but not much.

but the answer is yes, according to dictionary.com and webster.com:

Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.

unless you have a more valid source? ..

 

[Absinthe]

Athiests hold the firm belief that there is no god... that requires infinite knowledge.. it seems pretty irrational to me :/
Then again i might be missing something

No, no firm belief. Some atheists do, but that's not a requirement of atheism itself. We simply lack belief in deities, largely due to lack of evidence and sound reasoning. If that were grounds for irrationality, then it would also be irrational to disbelieve the idea of witches, or that we are germs on a cosmic dinner plate, or that there is a giant purple octopus floating around in space.

Yes, these things might be possible. But we have no reason to believe in them. Contrary to what you assert, it would be highly irrational to hold beliefs in such things.

Does atheism target one specific supernatural type of entity to deny the existence of out of an infinite amount of supernatural possibilities?

Your question rests on a straw man argument by misrepresenting atheism, so this is very easy to answer.

No.

You keep running to your definition, but you horribly misinterpret it (which is amazing, since it's so clear cut). And it's clear you've read nothing on the site I provided you. So it's obvious you have no intent to take part in an intelligent discussion.

 

[Uriel]

I believe in more Free Agency than limiting a religion. I would not care in any way if my teacher was a Muslim and began class with a prayer even if she included other students. It does not hurt me in anyway.

And in the subject of the 10 Commandments and courtroom, if money concerns you, wouldnt it cost even more money to remove it?

As I see it, this Nation (if you live in the US) is great because of its roots of establishment. The equality created by the forefathers and their faiths that inspired them to do so. As time passes their basic principles change and my personally belief is if these principles are changed so dramatically this nation will cease to be great and will fail its purpose. However, our Constitution is always and should be subject to change as long as it serves the people.

 

[poseyjmac]

No.

so then if it doesn't target one supernatural entity. then it has to target more than one. please name the other entity besides gods that atheism targets to deny.

take your time...

 

[Nat Turner]

anti-deism isn't defined in any dictionary ive seen on the internet, so perhaps you should find a definition as it could help your argument. but not much.

but the answer is yes, according to dictionary.com and webster.com:

Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.

unless you have a more valid source? ..

"Disbelief in the existence of God or gods" doesn't require religion or spirituality to still be valid. Maybe you should take up some reading comprehension classes. They don't believe in it in the first place. If someone asks them whether they believe in God, the answer is clearly no (covering the denial part).

 

[Uriel]

1.) Many people would beg to differ
2.) We were also founded on slavery; doesn't make it right... things change for the better

Please further your response. Who begs to differ? Founded on Slavery? Perhaps the South.

 

[Nat Turner]

so then if it doesn't target one supernatural entity. then it has to target more than one. please name the other entity besides gods that atheism targets to deny.

take your time...

Atheism doesn't target anything. It simply means not believing in anything. There is nothing to target, because spirituality does not exist to them.

If they must, they show discrepancies and loopholes in other peoples' beliefs.

What's so difficult to understand about this?

 

[Absinthe]

I believe in more Free Agency than limiting a religion. I would not care in any way if my teacher was a Muslim and began class with a prayer even if she included other students. It does not hurt me in anyway.

Religion is something that should be dealt with on one's own time. In no way should it be a part of public education. Just because you may not have issue with this doesn't mean others don't.

And in the subject of the 10 Commandments and courtroom, if money concerns you, wouldnt it cost even more money to remove it?

...What? What does this have to do with anything?

so then if it doesn't target one supernatural entity. then it has to target more than one. please name the other entity besides gods that atheism targets to deny.

take your time...

You're not making any sense. Atheists lack belief in all deities. An atheist by definition is one who doesn't believe in gods. It is not some philosophical position that you make it out to be. As Nat said, it doesn't target anything. Some atheists may take a pro-active stance regarding their views, but in no way is that inherent in atheism itself.

Read the site and educate yourself.

 

[Ikerous]

No, no firm belief. Some atheists do, but that's not a requirement of atheism itself. We simply lack belief in deities, largely due to lack of evidence and sound reasoning. If that were grounds for irrationality, then it would also be irrational to disbelieve the idea of witches, or that we are germs on a cosmic dinner plate, or that there is a giant purple octopus floating around in space

Good point
<3 absinthe

 

[Nat Turner]

Let me make something else clear:

Nobody is necessarily closedminded for their beliefs, no matter what religion or spirituality they follow or don't follow.

 

[Absinthe]

Nobody is necessarily closedminded for their beliefs, no matter what religion or spirituality they follow or don't follow.

QFE

sixchar

 

[poseyjmac]

Atheism doesn't target anything. It simply means not believing in anything.

are you high?

a·the·ism Audio pronunciation of "atheism" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (th-zm)
n.

1.
1. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.

hello? are these words not reaching your brain?

 

[Absinthe]

Posey, read the definition in its entirety. Surely something in your brain will click eventually.

 

[Nat Turner]

Poseyjmac:

Let me give you an example to illustrate my point.

A child has never seen a klingon in his life. He has never heard the word Klingon uttered, and has never watched a single episode of Star Trek. He clearly does not believe in Klingons. He can be considered atheist by not believing so. He is not denying the existence of Klingons, but is just not believing in them. Thus "disbelief".

Now a guy comes up to him and is like "Hey! There's a Klingon behind that tree and he's going to chop your head off!" The kid does not believe him, which is a denial.

Do you understand now?

 

[poseyjmac]

ill humor you. what defintion in its entirety? go on, find me your magical elusive defintion of atheism. from a reputable site of course.

 

[poseyjmac]

Poseyjmac:

Let me give you an example to illustrate my point.

A child has never seen a klingon in his life. He has never heard the word Klingon uttered, and has never watched a single episode of Star Trek. He clearly does not believe in Klingons. He can be considered atheist by not believing so. He is not denying the existence of Klingons, but is just not believing in them. Thus "disbelief".

Now a guy comes up to him and is like "Hey! There's a Klingon behind that tree and he's going to chop your head off!" The kid does not believe him, which is a denial.

Do you understand now?

your metaphor is inaccurate because atheists choose to be atheists, they choose to subscribe to the thinking that denies ONLY gods. if they didn't, they wouldn't be atheists.

 

[Uriel]

Religion is something that should be dealt with on one's own time. In no way should it be a part of public education. Just because you may not have issue with this doesn't mean others don't.



...What? What does this have to do with anything?



You're not making any sense. Atheists lack belief in all deities. An atheist by definition is one who doesn't believe in gods. It is not some philosophical position that you make it out to be. As Nat said, it doesn't target anything. Some atheists may take a pro-active stance regarding their views, but in no way is that inherent in atheism itself.

Read the site and educate yourself.

LOL, scratching your rear end should also be dealt with on your own time, and seems to be far more time consuming than prayer on the teacher's part (considering most of them waste a lot of time).

My other remark about money and the 10 commandments was not directed toward you, it was toward Ikereous for a previous response.

And no, I am not saying all laws should abide strickly to the views of Christians, but I am saying that there should be limits.

 

[Nat Turner]

your metaphor is inaccurate because atheists choose to be atheists, they choose to subscribe to the thinking that denies ONLY gods. if they didn't, they wouldn't be atheists.

No, people without belief are automatically atheist. You can turn atheist if you believed in something and then decide to not. But atheism is a state of mind, not a religion.

Where in the definition of atheist does it imply that people decide to be atheist? Yes the word "denial" does, but it also says "disbelief", meaning "absence of belief". Read over my example again, I think I explained it quite well.

 

[Absinthe]

ill humor you. what defintion in its entirety? go on, find me your magical elusive defintion of atheism. from a reputable site of course.

It's right there in the dictionary: disbelief or denial.

The issue is not with the definition. It's with your abysmal interpretation of it.

your metaphor is inaccurate because atheists choose to be atheists, they choose to subscribe to the thinking that denies ONLY gods. if they didn't, they wouldn't be atheists.

Atheists don't choose to disbelieve in gods any more than they choose to disbelieve in sorcery. There isn't some switch they turn off to get their views. Their positions are a result of their environment and the knowledge they've gleamed from it.

And again your definition of atheism is flawed. They can disbelieve/believe in many things. You confuse a single descriptor with an entire philosophical stance, showing your utter lack of knowledge towards the subject. Atheism pertains only to deities and nothing more.

One more time: Read the ****ing site and get out of this cesspool of ignorance you're wallowing in.

 

[poseyjmac]

No, people without belief are automatically atheist. You can turn atheist if you believed in something and then decide to not. But atheism is a state of mind, not a religion.

Where in the definition of atheist does it imply that people decide to be atheist? Yes the word "denial" does, but it also says "disbelief", meaning "absence of belief". Read over my example again, I think I explained it quite well.

what more can i say. what you said in bold is simply wrong. atheism is a focused religion. im not going to paste the damn defintion anymore because you won't read it. YOUR definition of atheism may be different from the real one, but hey we don't live in Nat Turner world, we live in the real world.

again atheism's defintion is NOT the disbelief in anything, only gods. GODS.

but answer me this and ill be a happy man, either of you.. why do you not acknowledge standard accepted defintions of words?

 

[poseyjmac]

oh wait, i have a better question. this will be interesting.

Why do all the standard definitions of the word atheism dictate the disbelief in 'gods'?

 

[Uriel]

Settle this with a game of CS:S or HL2DM.

 

[Nat Turner]

Poseyjmac:

You don't have to accept that deities exist before not believing in them.

 

[Absinthe]

Disbelief in gods... uhh... yeah? What's your point? Please, surely you aren't insinuating that the concept of disbelief in its entirety is close-minded? Because that's the only thing you seem to be arguing. Even you disbelieve in some things. Everybody does. And a lot of it is founded on sound rational thinking.

If you didn't, you'd be a crazy coot.

 

[poseyjmac]

you guys are funny. but im still waiting for answers for both those questions if you feel up to it.

 

[Kyorisu]

This debate still going eh!

Atheism -
1
1. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
2. The doctrine that there is no God or gods.

2 Godlessness; immorality

That's what it comes down to nothing more.

 

[Absinthe]

Your questions have either been answered or discredited because of their false premises. Ask a stupid question and you won't get a proper response.

ADDED: Holy shit, I just read a reply of yours that I missed on the previous page and you have termed atheism as a religion. Now I'm sure as shit convinced you have no clue what you're babbling about. Just stop already. You don't know what atheism is, let alone religion. Christ almighty.

 

[poseyjmac]

This debate still going eh!

Atheism -
1
1. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
2. The doctrine that there is no God or gods.

2 Godlessness; immorality

That's what it comes down to nothing more.

ah but absinthe and nat don't believe in definitions of actual words! we lose!

 

[Nat Turner]

poseyjmac:

Why do you like wearing your mom's underwear?

(and you can't just disregard my questions if I can't disregard yours)

 

[Absinthe]

ah but absinthe and nat don't believe in definitions of actual words! we lose!

No, I agree with the definition. But you're absolutely mangling it to shoehorn your fractal, flawed, and illogical reasoning.

 

[poseyjmac]

poseyjmac:

Why do you like wearing your mom's underwear?

(and you can't just disregard my questions if I can't disregard yours)

because they make me feel pretty. :bonce:

 

[Kyorisu]

Can we all agree that each of us is insane and hence not in a good social order to debate on such concepts as ones beliefs?