Do you think that the US should change the constitution to ban firearms?

[Tr0n]

From your link:
In 2002,
69.4% of murderers in Michigan used a gun.
65.2% in Alabama
80% in Delaware
Only 39.4 in Kansas.
New York 59.3%.

I see a pattern.... guns are involved when people get murdered...more than... any other weapon.

Sure if you make them illegal some people will be able to get hold of them, and some murders will still be committed.

But I wonder how many of murders could be avoided if people didn't have easy access to guns?

In the UK we had 792 murders in 2000, and in only 43 a gun was used.

That's about 5% I think.

*throws up the horns*

WOOOOO!!!My state is on that list!

Anyways I don't see why everyone is still debating this topic....guns are going to stay and thats final.If you don't like it take it up with congress.

 

[GhostFox]

relative to what? a 1, 2, 10 % decrease is meaningless when the the percentage of deaths caused by guns is in the high 60's

Why? I don't care if 100% of murders are commited with guns, if the muder rate was to drop 50% or 75%. I don't care how people are killed, only if they are or aren't.

If the US could reduce it's murder rate by 75%, but at the same time say 90% of the murders commited were with guns. Would that not be a victory for gun control? Yes people are still using guns to commit crimes, but less people are commiting them.

 

[zodiak]

Wouw just look at that poll. Think that pretty much the general thought about guns in the US. thats why i don't think i'll ever see the day that they will do some thing about that problem.

And yes there might be less deaths becouse of guns in the US these last years but your still #1 in the world when it comes to that.

 

[GhostFox]

And yes there might be less deaths becouse of guns in the US these last years but your still #1 in the world when it comes to that.

Are you talking murder rate? Or murders with guns?

Because if you mean murder rate you are sadly mistaken. The US isn't even close to #1 in murders, in fact it is fairly close to England, Canada etc.

EDIT: US is #8 for murders commited with a firearm with .02 per 1000 people. Canada for examply is #20 with less then .01 per 1000. Not a huge difference. Maybe guns will destroy Canadian society as well?

 

[CptStern]

Are you talking murder rate? Or murders with guns?

Because if you mean murder rate you are sadly mistaken. The US isn't even close to #1 in murders, in fact it is fairly close to England, Canada etc.

it depends what we're talking about:

if it's death by firearm then the US ranks 4th


1. South Africa 31,918 (2000)
2. Colombia 21,898 (2000)
3. Thailand 20,032 (2000)
4. United States 8,259 (1999)
5. Mexico 3,589 (2000)
6. Zimbabwe 598 (2000)
7. Germany 384 (2000)
8. Belarus 331 (2000)
9. Czech Republic 213 (2000)
10. Ukraine 173 (2000)
11. Poland 166 (2000)
12. Canada 165 (1999)
13. Costa Rica 126 (1999)
14. Slovakia 117 (2000)
15. Spain 97 (2000)
16. Uruguay 84 (2000)
17. Portugal 84 (2000)
18. Lithuania 83 (2000)
19. Bulgaria 63 (2000)
20. United Kingdom 62 (1999)
21. Australia 59 (2000)
22. Hungary 44 (2000)
23. Switzerland 40 (2000)
24. Latvia 30 (2000)
25. Macedonia, The Former Yugoslav Republic of


canada is nowhere near the US


if it's actual number of murders well it's a little lower on the list:


1. India 37,170 (1999)
2. Russia 28,904 (2000)
3. Colombia 26,539 (2000)
4. South Africa 21,995 (2000)
5. Mexico 13,829 (2000)
6. United States 12,658 (1999)
7. Venezuela 8,022 (2000)
8. Thailand 5,140 (2000)
9. Ukraine 4,418 (2000)
10. Indonesia 2,204 (2000)
11. Poland 2,170 (2000)
12. France 1051 (2000)
13. Belarus 1013 (2000)
14. Germany 960 (2000)
15. Korea, South 955 (2000)
16. Zimbabwe 912 (2000)
17. Jamaica 887 (2000)
18. United Kingdom 850 (2000)
19. Zambia 797 (2000)
20. Italy 746 (2000)
21. Yemen 697 (2000)
22. Japan 637 (2000)
23. Romania 560 (2000)
24. Malaysia 551 (2000)
25. Spain 494 (2000)


canada is not even on the list


if it's actual murder rate, again it's lower


1. Colombia 0.63 per 1000 people
2. South Africa 0.51 per 1000 people
3. Jamaica 0.32 per 1000 people
4. Venezuela 0.32 per 1000 people
5. Russia 0.19 per 1000 people
6. Mexico 0.13 per 1000 people
7. Lithuania 0.10 per 1000 people
8. Estonia 0.10 per 1000 people
9. Latvia 0.10 per 1000 people
10. Belarus 0.09 per 1000 people
11. Ukraine 0.09 per 1000 people
12. Papua New Guinea 0.08 per 1000 people
13. Kyrgyzstan 0.08 per 1000 people
14. Thailand 0.07 per 1000 people
15. Moldova 0.07 per 1000 people
16. Zambia 0.07 per 1000 people
17. Seychelles 0.07 per 1000 people
18. Zimbabwe 0.07 per 1000 people
19. Costa Rica 0.06 per 1000 people
20. Poland 0.05 per 1000 people
21. Georgia 0.04 per 1000 people
22. Uruguay 0.04 per 1000 people
23. Bulgaria 0.04 per 1000 people
24. United States 0.04 per 1000 people
25. Armenia



canada came in 44th place below australia and above the UK, nowhere near the US


notice that in most of the top 10 lists the US is one of the few if only 1st world countries?


source

 

[RZAL]

like I said before ..you have a lot of hurdles to get over ..it'll be tough but you gotta weed those elements anyways

Just an educated guess, For one banning guns in the US would be impossible to enforce and two there would definitely be some hard times down the road. Do some research on hate groups, militias, radical right wing groups and various others in America. Check out the FBI’s website for Domestic terrorist, read up on the examples I gave you. Check out the local news paper archives. I’m not joking, you think I’m “AntiFederalist” these groups are die hard pry my gun out of my dead fingers kind of people.

okay but before you continue on ...67% of any number is still 67%

Duh! Its unreasonable to think the murder rate would remain the same if you started changing demographics, after all Canada has about the population equal to that of California. It’s a whole lot easier to control a small group of people than it is to control a large group.

yes but that's assuming the rate would rise in accordance to the population rise ..for all you know we can have a massive influx of tibetan monks migrating to nunavut :E

You and I both know it would change, after the environment changed.

i dont know ..easy gun availibility?

Lets see more guns on the street today equals less crime. Well may be the people of America are starting to find some self-respect and starting to police themselves.

well we did forget one figure:

Number of violent crime victimizations committed with a firearm in 1995: 815,130 down from 1.3 million in 1993
.so you're numbers are off ..if you say only 4.9 million crimes committed and only in 7% of them a firearm was used ...but this document says otherwise ..I'm not great in math but 1.36 million (815,130 victemisations + 544,880 actual crimes) isnt 7% of 4.9 million

Not my Figures that number came from the US Department of Justice
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/guns.htm

According to the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS) in 2003, 449,150 victims of violent crimes stated that they faced an offender with a firearm.

Incidents involving a firearm represented 7% of the 4.9 million violent crimes of rape and sexual assault, robbery, and aggravated and simple assault.

The FBI's Crime in the United States estimated that 67% of the 16,503 murders in 2003 were committed with firearms.
Oh, wait I see we are confusing two different reports (NCVS) is a survey http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/ncvs1.pdf

BJS criminal victimization data collections
National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS) is the Nation's primary source of information on criminal victimization. Each year, data are obtained from a nationally representative sample of 42,000 households comprising nearly 76,000 persons on the frequency, characteristics and consequences of criminal victimization in the United States. The survey enables BJS to estimate the likelihood of victimization by rape, sexual assault, robbery, assault, theft, household burglary, and motor vehicle theft for the population as a whole as well as for segments of the population such as women, the elderly, members of various racial groups, city dwellers, or other groups. The NCVS provides the largest national forum for victims to describe the impact of crime and characteristics of violent offenders.
Ongoing from 1973; Redesign 1992.

The UCR for 2003 reflects 22.0 million violent crimes, which is far greater than 4.9 million as surveyed. Out of 16503 murders in 2003, firearms were used 9638 times 66.48%.UCR reflect the murder rate for 2002 at 5.6 percent per 100,000.

National Crime Victimization Survey reflects in 2003 there were 366,840 incidents involving firearms and 449,150 Firearm Non-fatal victims. Firearm crimes as a percent of all violent incidents was 7%


Definition
Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, as defined in the Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program, is the willful (nonnegligent) killing of one human being by another.

The classification of this offense, as for all other offenses that make up the Crime Index, is based solely on police investigation as opposed to the determination of a court, medical examiner, coroner, jury, or other judicial body. The Program does not include the following situations in the count for this offense classification: deaths caused by negligence, suicide, or accident; justifiable homicides; and attempts to murder or assaults to murder, which are scored as aggravated assaults.
Trend

Year Number of offenses Rate per 100,000inhabitants

2001 16,037 5.6
2002 16,204 5.6
Percent change +1.0 *

* Less than one-tenth of 1 percent.
National Volume, Trends, and Rates
An estimated 16,204 murders took place in 2002. This figure represents a 1.0 percent increase over the 2001 volume. A comparison of the data from 5 and 10 years ago showed that the 2002 estimated volume decreased 4.5 percent from the 1998 estimate, and it fell 33.9 percent from the estimate for 1993. (See Table 1.)

During 2002, the murder rate was estimated at 5.6 crimes per 100,000 inhabitants. The rate remained virtually unchanged from the rate for 2001. Five-year and 10-year trend analyses revealed that the 2002 murder rate was 10.5 percent lower than the rate in 1998 and 40.9 percent below the estimated murder rate in 1993. (See Table 1.)

Murder accounted for less than 1 percent of the offenses that make up the Crime Index reported in 2002. Among violent crimes, 1.1 percent were the offense of murder. (Based on Table 1.) http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_02/html/web/offreported/02-nmurder03.html

you didnt say what I think you did now did you?

I was referring to what GhostFox said. Historically The UCR reflected a higher percentage of black offenders.

Below is the summary of murder suspects from UCR (Note) I have not looked at the over all figures yet)

“Of those who committed murder in 2002, 90.3 percent were identified as male; 91.7 percent of the male offenders were over 18 years of age. A racial breakdown of murder offenders for whom race was known showed that 49.8 percent were black, 47.8 percent were white, and 2.4 percent were persons of other races. (See Table 2.6.)

Data from single victim/single offender incidents indicated that 92.3 percent of black victims were slain by black offenders. Similarly, the majority of white victims—84.7 percent—were murdered by white offenders. (See Table 2.8.) “http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_02/html/web/offreported/02-nmurder03.html

following rules? are you serious? what was my cousin supposed to do? plead with him to fight mano a mano?

What do you think would have happen if your cousin didn’t have a gun? Shots may have been fired but did anyone get hurt? Could it have been worse? Rules they broke were, you never mix firearms with alcohol, and you only use a firearm as a last resort. If your cousin would have shot and killed this person, he would have been charged with murder. He should have retreated from the scene or shown reasonable efforts to retreat. Following someone outside of a bar to duke it out and then grabbing a gun, is not self defense, It breaking the law.

Until next time

 

[GhostFox]

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur_wit_fir_cap

#8, not that far from Canada.

Total murders are absolutely meaningless.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur_cap

Also, since this was done, US has decreased, Canada has increased.

In 10 years the the US murder rate could be below Canada's.

 

[CptStern]

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur_wit_fir_cap

#8, not that far from Canada.

ya if you count 12 place marks as "not that far"

Total murders are absolutely meaningless.

what are you talking about? it means everything ..look at the top 5 ..it's made up of third world countries and corrupt regimes

Also, since this was done, US has decreased, Canada has increased.

In 10 years the the US murder rate could be below Canada's.

source?

 

[GhostFox]

ya if you count 12 place marks as "not that far"

The difference between places is very small. If I finished 1st in a race, and you finished 100th, but your time was .001 seconds behind me, would you say that you weren't even close to me?

source?

I don't have a source for the crime rate could be higher in Canada part, becuase that is just an informed opinion on my part. As to the rise in Canada's crime rate and the decrease in the US's, that was all posted in a thread the other day that I know you were a part of, so I am not going to go look it up. RZAL posted the info maybe? You must remember it.

 

[GhostFox]

what are you talking about? it means everything ..look at the top 5 ..it's made up of third world countries and corrupt regimes

It means nothing. In this case it just means the US has a bigger population then most developed countries. Per Capita is the only statistic that comes close to being accurate. I'm shocked that you actually brought up total murders.

 

[CptStern]

The difference between places is very small. If I finished 1st in a race, and you finished 100th, but your time was .001 seconds behind me, would you say that you weren't even close to me?

it's per 1000 ..as in canada has 0.0 and the US has 0.2 big difference ...just look at the totals to see the difference and multiply by 10

I don't have a source for the crime rate could be higher in Canada part, becuase that is just an informed opinion on my part.

work for stats canada or CSIS? you must because you say it's an "informed" opinion

As to the rise in Canada's crime rate and the decrease in the US's, that was all posted in a thread the other day that I know you were a part of, so I am not going to go look it up. RZAL posted the info maybe? You must remember it.

nope, there was no comparison that I can recall

 

[GhostFox]

it's per 1000 ..as in canada has 0.0 and the US has 0.2 big difference

Canada has less then .01, and with the drop in US crime rates over the past decade the US is probably below .02 and closer to .01.

Is it a differance? Of course. I already acknowladged that the US has a bad crime problem. Is it that huge of a differance? Not really.

work for stats canada or CSIS? you must because you say it's an "informed" opinion

No, I but I can read. I can watch the statistics on violent crime go lower and lower every year in the US, and watch them rise in Canada. The countries crime rates aren't nearly as far apart as people think. Therefore, if nothing changes and the progression occurs as it has, Canada's crime rate will rise above the US crime rate at some point.

Ain't it cool? It is called logic! Try it!

nope, there was no comparison that I can recall

I'll find you a new link.

Unfortunately the first link I found comparing the crime rates is http://www.gunowners.org/sk0703.htm I was skeptical myself becuase of the website name, but if you scoll down you can check the sourcing for the info which is all legit.

* Canada: After enacting stringent gun control laws in 1991 and 1995, Canada has not made its citizens any safer. "The contrast between the criminal violence rates in the United States and in Canada is dramatic," says Canadian criminologist Gary Mauser in 2003. "Over the past decade, the rate of violent crime in Canada has increased while in the United States the violent crime rate has plummeted." 3

 

[CptStern]

No, I but I can read. I can watch the statistics on violent crime go lower and lower every year in the US, and watch them rise in Canada. The countries crime rates aren't nearly as far apart as people think. Therefore, if nothing changes and the progression occurs as it has, Canada's crime rate will rise above the US crime rate at some point.

Ain't it cool? It is called logic! Try it!

well let's see I do have links:

this link says the murder rate is down and crime rate is up ...due to counterfiting ..that's for 2003

..hmmm let's see this one shows that total number of crimes is actually down since 1999:

2,423.4 incidents in 1999 and 2,314.2 in 2003

 

[RZAL]

When I read America’s crime clock (see below) it reminds me of what Desertrat said.

I never have seen a loaded gun jump up from a table and shoot somebody. I never have seen a car decide to go off the road. I never have seen an axe fall unassisted onto a foot.

Seems to me that tools are tools. The only difference is the usage.

I don't understand the punishment of the masses for the sins of a few.

I don't have a gun because I fear. I do not fear because I do have a gun. I note that at age 70 and with some arthritis, karate and such are of little help in the admittedly uncommon event of assault on my precious body. "Admittedly uncommon" includes lawsuits and fires and accidents to my automobile, but I have carried insurance for decades. A self-defense firearm is nothing more than a different form of insurance.

'Rat

“Incidents involving a firearm represented 7% of the 4.9 million violent crimes of rape and sexual assault, robbery, and aggravated and simple assault”

America’s Crime Clock

Every 31.8 minutes, one murder
Every 5.6 minutes, one forcible rape
Every 1.3 minutes, one aggravated assault

Every 14 seconds, one burglary
Every 4.5 seconds, one larceny
Every 25 seconds, one vehicle theft
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_03/pdf/03sec1.pdf

Arrest by race made in 2003 for URC Index Crimes

70.6% White
27% Black
2.5%Other

Violent Crimes

Whites accounted for 60.5% arrested for violent crimes
Blacks accounted for 37.2% arrested for violent crimes

Property Crimes

Whites accounted for 68.2% arrested for property crimes
Blacks accounted for 29.1 % arrested for property crimes
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_03/pdf/03sec4.pdf

US Population by Race

White 75.14% of population
Black 12.32% of the population
American Indian and Alaska Native .88% of population
Asian 3.64% of Population
Native Hawaiian .14% of population
Other 7.88% of Population

http://www.census.gov/

Blacks are 12.32% of the population and make up 37.2% of all arrest for violent crimes, and 29.1% of all property crimes. Slightly un-proportionate don’t you think.

 

[Pesmerga]

The reason this constitutional right is given is in case the government goes over the line. US's founding fathers put this in place because they had an idea about where a government could go if it got too powerful. If 293 million residents of the United States of America says that the government is wrong, most likely the military aint got shit on em. For the first part, all soldiers in the military have been trained to follow orders from their superior. Get the officers on the good side, you get the soldiers on the good side. Get enough soldiers and officers, you've got a force capable of over-turning the most powerful nation in the world.

In other words, the right to bear arms will probably be the foremost reason this county stays good.

 

[CptStern]

When I read America’s crime clock (see below) it reminds me of what Desertrat said.



“Incidents involving a firearm represented 7% of the 4.9 million violent crimes of rape and sexual assault, robbery, and aggravated and simple assault”

America’s Crime Clock

Every 31.8 minutes, one murder
Every 5.6 minutes, one forcible rape
Every 1.3 minutes, one aggravated assault

Every 14 seconds, one burglary
Every 4.5 seconds, one larceny
Every 25 seconds, one vehicle theft
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_03/pdf/03sec1.pdf

Arrest by race made in 2003 for URC Index Crimes

70.6% White
27% Black
2.5%Other

Violent Crimes

Whites accounted for 60.5% arrested for violent crimes
Blacks accounted for 37.2% arrested for violent crimes

Property Crimes

Whites accounted for 68.2% arrested for property crimes
Blacks accounted for 29.1 % arrested for property crimes
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_03/pdf/03sec4.pdf

US Population by Race

White 75.14% of population
Black 12.32% of the population
American Indian and Alaska Native .88% of population
Asian 3.64% of Population
Native Hawaiian .14% of population
Other 7.88% of Population

http://www.census.gov/

Blacks are 12.32% of the population and make up 37.2% of all arrest for violent crimes, and 29.1% of all property crimes. Slightly un-proportionate don’t you think.

I dont see the point in bringing up the race card .....it could be that 1 quarter of all blacks in the US live below the poverty line

 

[RZAL]

I dont see the point in bringing up the race card .....it could be that 1 quarter of all blacks in the US live below the poverty line

I don’t consider it a race card, I see it as valid data which should be viewed as a possible “effect of a cause”. I’m looking for a solution to a problem, not a quick fix or another make you feel good law.

Too prove it is not a race card read the following post from 1-8-05.

black people and "lationos" are normaly much more prone to criminal activity!! ok, now we have about 25% potential criminals.

My response………

jverne

I have not reviewed the latest reports, nor do I plan to do so at this time. In the past I have wrote several argument papers on the topic. Not saying your sources are wrong, simply pointing to the best reference to use in gathering your information.

http://www.census.gov/
http://www.fbi.gov/homepage.htm

I will say traditionally, crime is the highest among younger, lower class black males. If I recall white pop 75%, Blk pop 12%, crime rate was around 70-75% Blk offenders.

Opposing argument to crime ratio was the Gov was discriminating against blks, years of repression.

Predisposition to crime (genes) I haven't seen any studies that are conclusive, then again its been a few years since I have researched it.

Very interesting topic, I think you are looking in the right direction as far as social and economic factors. I wouldn't put much stock in the gene theory at least not for crime.
Good Luck

I’m sure once we look at the URC, we will find that a” quarter of all blacks in the US live below the poverty line” furthermore we see the same correlation for the white offenders. This leads me to believe the reason for elevated crime rates are partly due to economic factors more so than the availability of guns.

On a side note are you starting to see the differences between America and Canada?

 

[RZAL]

I’m not sure if I’m reading this right, is this saying Canada’s crime rate is 2,314.2 per 100,000 people, or is it the total for the year?
http://www.statcan.ca/english/Pgdb/legal14a.htm

Either way, I can definitely tell you that police work in Canada is nothing like police work in America. Darn that is a good rate…. Back in the day the area I worked had a resident population of 20,000 and a work force of 200,000 our calls for service averaged around 50,000 a year. My average misdemeanor arrest rate was about 100-125 per year, Felony arrest about 50-60 per year, warrants 240 per year, traffic tickets 600 per year, so what that’s about a 1000 arrest/charges per year…nope at that rate it’s a cake walk.

 

[GhostFox]

That is rate per 100K, RZAL.

 

[RZAL]

well let's see I do have links:this link says the murder rate is down and crime rate is up ...due to counterfiting ..that's for 2003
..hmmm let's seethis one shows that total number of crimes is actually down since 1999: 2,423.4 incidents in 1999 and 2,314.2 in 2003

2,423.4 crimes is the wrong figure, its really 8,884.8 http://www.statcan.ca/english/Pgdb/legal02.htm

I don't have a source for the crime rate could be higher in Canada part, becuase that is just an informed opinion on my part. .

GhostFox its not just your informed opinion anymore, its fact (see below)
http://www.statcan.ca/english/Pgdb/legal02.htm


Canada’s crime rate per 100,000 inhabitants

962.8 violent crimes per 100,000 inhabitants
4,121.4 property crimes per 100,000 inhabitants


America’s crime rate Per 100,000 inhabitants

475.0 violent crimes per 100,000 inhabitants
3,588.4 property crimes per 100,000 inhabitants,

What!..what!..what was that?…. did I hear Micheal Moore say something? Ouch Canada has over 50% more violent crimes than the United States, and even beats the US in Property crimes by 533 per 100,000. On a second thought, maybe Canada shouldn,t be allowed to possess firearms. With these kind of figures I’m sure your murder rate would increase.

According to the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS) Incidents involving a firearm represented 7% of the 4.9 million violent crimes of rape and sexual assault, robbery, and aggravated and simple assault.

Violent Crime in America

At nearly 1.4 million offenses, the estimated volume of violent crime in the United States in 2003 declined 3.0 percent from the 2002 figure.
In 2003, the offense of murder was the only violent crime to show an increase in volume, 1.7 percent, compared to the 2002 data.
Collectively, the Nation's cities experienced a 3.9-percent decrease in violent crime in comparison to the 2002 figure. Violent crime decreased 3.7 percent in the Nation's nonmetropolitan counties and 1.0 percent in the Nation's metropolitan counties.
More than 30 percent (30.7) of violent crimes were committed with personal weapons such as hands, fists, feet, etc. Perpetrators used firearms in 26.9 percent and knives or cutting instruments in 15.2 percent of violent crimes. Other weapons were used in 27.3 percent of violent offenses during 2003.
The UCR Program estimated that in 2003 law enforcement agencies nationwide made 597,026 arrests for violent crime. Arrests for violent crime accounted for 4.4 percent of the estimated number of all arrests.

Property Crime

The 10.4 million property crimes estimated for 2003 reflected a slight decline (-0.2 percent) when compared to the 2002 estimate.
In the Nation's cities collectively, property crime decreased 0.3 percent from the 2002 figure. In nonmetropolitan counties, property crime increased 0.6 percent and in metropolitan counties, 0.2 percent.
Victims of property crimes (excluding arson) lost an estimated $17 billion, a 2.1-percent increase from the 2002 estimated dollar loss. Of the total loss, an estimated $8.6 billion was lost as a result of motor vehicle thefts, an estimated $4.9 billion was lost as a result of larceny-thefts, and an estimated $3.5 billion was lost as a result of burglaries.
Arrests for property crime accounted for 11.8 percent of the estimated number of arrests in 2003. Most of the property crime arrests (71.3 percent) were for larceny-theft.
http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/pressrel04/crimestat102504.htm

 

[CptStern]

On a side note are you starting to see the differences between America and Canada?

yes ...because of this true-ism:

"It's a known fact, it's harder to kill your girlfriend in a fit of rage with the lacross stick in your closet than with the pistol in your bed side drawer " - some canadian dude


jk I'll get back to you when I get a chance ..you've given me a lot of figures to pour over, it'll take time ....btw you never answered the fbi question

 

[RZAL]

yes ...because of this true-ism:

"It's a known fact, it's harder to kill your girlfriend in a fit of rage with the lacross stick in your closet than with the pistol in your bed side drawer " - some canadian dude

Ok, so now you’re basing your argument on guns should be banned because of Crimes of passion? I not sure, but I’m willing to bet that crimes of passion are extremely low.

I don’t have the stats on that one, but wait lets see…..I know why don’t you provide your supporting evidence?

Percent Distribution, Volume by Known Relationship, 2002

12.7% were Family
14.0% were Strangers
30.5% were Other known
42.8% were Unknown

jk I'll get back to you when I get a chance ..you've given me a lot of figures to pour over, it'll take time ....btw you never answered the fbi question

Actually I did answer your question, along with doing you’re research for you.

Did you happen to catch my latest research….

Canada’s crime rate for 2003

962.8 violent crimes per 100,000 inhabitants
4,121.4 property crimes per 100,000 inhabitants


America’s crime rate for 2003

475.0 violent crimes per 100,000 inhabitants
3,588.4 property crimes per 100,000 inhabitants,

What!..what!..what was that?…. did I hear Micheal Moore say something? Ouch Canada has over 50% more violent crimes than the United States, and even beats the US in Property crimes by 533 per 100,000. On a second thought, maybe Canada shouldn,t be allowed to possess firearms. With these kind of figures I’m sure the murder rate would increase.

Canada has over 50% more violent crimes than the United States, wow that’s hard to believe! Here I’ am all worried about the cause of crime in America, while Canada’s going nuts.

 

[CptStern]

Ok, so now you’re basing your argument on guns should be banned because of Crimes of passion? I not sure, but I’m willing to bet that crimes of passion are extremely low.

hmmmm you are stone faced arent ya? It was a joke

I don’t have the stats on that one, but wait lets see…..I know why don’t you provide your supporting evidence?

Percent Distribution, Volume by Known Relationship, 2002

12.7% were Family
14.0% were Strangers
30.5% were Other known
42.8% were Unknown

Actually I did answer your question, along with doing you’re research for you.

you did? where?

Did you happen to catch my latest research….



Canada has over 50% more violent crimes than the United States, wow that’s hard to believe! Here I’ am all worried about the cause of crime in America, while Canada’s going nuts.

like I said I'll look it through it when I get a chance

 

[burner69]

guns aren't bad mmmkay??? people are bad mmmkay?? dont be a bad person and own a gun, cuz it's eeeeaaasssyyy mmmmmmkkkkk....!!

Bad people + gun = not nice situations.

Like some comedian said:

I hate it when people say "Gun's don't kill people, people kill people." Well, if someone's coming at me and I shoot them dead... well... the gun's helped really hasn't it.

 

[GhostFox]

Bad people + gun = not nice situations.

Bad people + stick = not nice situation. Should we ban sticks?

I'm still undecided about gun control btw, I just wanted to show you that that line of reasoning isn't nessicarily the best.

 

[burner69]

Bad people + stick = not nice situation. Should we ban sticks?

I'm still undecided about gun control btw, I just wanted to show you that that line of reasoning isn't nessicarily the best.

Sticks don't travel at several hundred metres per second, or are able to penetrate bone.

But I see your argument, but even so, sticks have many other uses other than to kill people with, guns are designed specifically to kill people.

 

[Steve]

Sticks don't travel at several hundred metres per second, or are able to penetrate bone.

No, a big enough stick can do that. It's called a 4 X 4.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Sticks don't travel at several hundred metres per second, or are able to penetrate bone.

But I see your argument, but even so, sticks have many other uses other than to kill people with, guns are designed specifically to kill people.

I dunno, I bet the first sticks were made to kill people...that is, if people did make sticks. :O

 

[burner69]

I dunno, I bet the first sticks were made to kill people...that is, if people did make sticks. :O

A little bird told me they might be naturally forming. Lies I say. Ban sticks!

 

[short recoil]

I think they should ban all guns because humans cannot be trusted to have the power to kill someone else, i think they should ban police using weapons too because they are humans just the same, and that way the only people that will be using guns are people that do not follow the law....that way they have the most power.

I completely agree with the new laws coming into UK about offensive weapons as well, so that when a rapist attacks a woman he wont get injured, because "defensive" weapons that can be carried are completely harmless.

Basically in a perfect soceity we would not need to use weapons other than for target practice, where they wouldn't be weapons.
What is a perfect soceity?, somewhere were no killing happens?.......because a life of another human is as precious as yours?

Unless all humans were the same entity of thought it is pointless trying to give humans freedom and safety at the same time.

 

[KoreBolteR]

do you think a "Big Brother" State, would improve the crime rate?, u know, if every one was tagged, and there was cctc cameras Everywhere!.

im sure people wud think "uh oh, im being monitered, i shall not do this awful awful crime" ...

even tho it would cost billions.

 

[RZAL]

Sticks and Crime in America

More than 30 percent (30.7) of violent crimes were committed with personal weapons such as hands, fists, feet, etc. that includes sticks also.

Perpetrators used firearms in 26.9 percent and knives or cutting instruments in 15.2 percent of violent crimes. So lets, see the FBI says firearms were the 2nd choice of weapon. http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/pressrel04/crimestat102504.htm

Canada’s murder rate is 1.85% homicides for every 100,000 people. A grand total of 582 murders in all of canada ..only 23% were commited with firearms.

So what killed the other 77% Percent Hands, fist, feet, sticks, Knives, etc. ?

United States Guns were used 26.9% of the time.
Canada Guns were used only 23% of the time.


Canada’s crime rate for 2003

962.8 violent crimes per 100,000 inhabitants
4,121.4 property crimes per 100,000 inhabitants


America’s crime rate for 2003

475.0 violent crimes per 100,000 inhabitants
3,588.4 property crimes per 100,000 inhabitants,

What???… did I hear Micheal Moore say something about the crime rate in Canada? Ouch Canada has over 50% more violent crimes than the United States, and it even beats the US in Property crimes by 533 per 100,000. On a second thought, maybe Canada shouldn,t be allowed to possess firearms. With these kind of figures I’m sure the murder rate would increase.

 

[GhostFox]

Check your PM RZAL.

 

[RZAL]

A few more tid bits of information:

Canada

It is estimated there are 8.5 million firearms in Canada
962.8 violent crimes per 100,000 inhabitants
4,121.4 property crimes per 100,000 inhabitants
In 2002 there were 582 murders in Canada, 23% were committed with firearms.
Firearms, of all types, are used in less than 2 per cent of all violent crimes in Canada.


United States

It is estimated there are 276 million firearms in the United States
475.0 violent crimes per 100,000 inhabitants
3,588.4 property crimes per 100,000 inhabitants
In 2003 there were 16,503 murders in America, 26.9 percent were committed with firearms.
Firearms off all types were used in 7% per cent of all violent crimes in the United States
Eight times as many children die from non-gun violent acts than from gun crimes.
http://ojjdp.ncjrs.org/

0.1% of all deaths for children between the ages 0-14 are from firearms, 0.6% are from motor vehicles, 5.3% are from being struck in beatings or bludgeoning, 6.0% from poisoning, and 42.6% from suffocation
http://www.nccev.org/index.html

There are more guns in the U.S. than cars (228,000,000 guns according to the 1998 FBI statistics and 207,754,000 automobiles according to the 1998 Federal Highway Administration registrations). Yet, you are 31 times more likely to be accidentally killed by a car than a gun according to the National Safety Council…despite cars having been registered and licensed for more than 100 years.
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/index.html

What???… did I hear Micheal Moore say something about the crime rate in Canada? Ouch Canada has over 50% more violent crimes than the United States, and it even beats the US in Property crimes by 533 per 100,000. Maybe Canada should consider carry concealed weapon permits, after all the United States reduced their over all crime rate by approx. –31% over the last 10 years.

 

[Flyingdebris]

I would like to point out the simple fact that "guns are cool"

i believe that settles this argument. You can all go home now.

 

[Steve]

I would like to point out the simple fact that "guns are cool"

i believe that settles this argument. You can all go home now.

As I am unable to submit a viable counterpoint to this argument, I will now go home.

Seriously, guys. Do ya'll know how much American movies would suck if we banned firearms?

 

[ríomhaire]

In Ireland it extremly hard to get a gun. You must have a good criminal record and things like that. You are not alowed have handguns, only hunting based guns. The police are not armed.
My dad was in America and he went in to a supermarket. They had a gun counter. He could have walked out of there with an AK47. That's just plain crazy!
Edit: LOL everyone from America thinks they shouldn't, everyone from outside thinks they should.

 

[Steve]

My dad was in America and he went in to a supermarket. They had a gun counter. He could have walked out of there with an AK47. That's just plain crazy!

Sorry, buddy. You're sorely mistaken. There's a background check and a 10-day waiting period to buy a gun here in the U.S. It's not like you can just go down to the corner drugstore and pick one up.

 

[ríomhaire]

Sorry, buddy. You're sorely mistaken. There's a background check and a 10-day waiting period to buy a gun here in the U.S. It's not like you can just go down to the corner drugstore and pick one up.

My dad lied to me. He shall pay!!!

 

[Bodacious]

Sorry, buddy. You're sorely mistaken. There's a background check and a 10-day waiting period to buy a gun here in the U.S. It's not like you can just go down to the corner drugstore and pick one up.

Nu huh!

I went a gun show a few weeks out of the marines and purchased a walther p22 and walked away with it that same day. If I had the cash, and they were available, I could have purchased a Desert Eagle .50 cal or a Barret Rifles .50 cal.

Want to see it?