Does God Exist?

Aw, I was going to post the actual definition of a theory for flamindts but Ace beat me.

tbh the definition of a theory is all I know, in relation to this discussion!
 
Some scientists believe that the universe expands and then it will contract. Others believe it will start all over again, over and over. The science television for the layman isn't exactly revealing or definitive in it's explanation of how scientists came to these conclusions. However, right now, we live in a time when the expansion is pretty much over, that much they all agree on.
 
VirusType2 said:
However, right now, we live in a time when the expansion is pretty much over, that much they all agree on.
Click to expand...

Unless I misunderstand you, you're suggesting that the Universe has stopped expanding?
 
Simple answer to this thread:

We don't know, we may never know.

Personally, I think religion was made up to explain the unexplainable, to comfort the un-comforted.
 
jondy said:
Unless I misunderstand you, you're suggesting that the Universe has stopped expanding?
Click to expand...

- Meaning it's slowed down quite a bit, I've heard recently. (Probably on History channel's 'Universe' series, but might have been something else) I didn't mean to suggest that it had stopped. I think they were implying that it was 'hellfire' from every angle and now it's relatively calmed down.
 
zombieturtle01 said:
I've got a question I will throw out there:

The definition of "god" is so subjective, it doesn't necessarily mean a deity that has created the universe, or man kind; there are deities in mythologies who did no such thing.
It also doesn't even suggest that god has to be a single living being; there are religions that believe god is in every object.

So technically, couldn't you assign "god" to anything? Couldn't you then assign "god" to something more god-like while remaining almost 100% provable? Such as money or communication?
-Surely two things that dictate our life far greater than any supernatural superstitions?
Click to expand...

Whilst I think it's important to acknowledge the ambiguity of definitons - as many of them are simply Western mindsets - the argument you are presenting is too obtuse to consider seriously. You could certainly do that, but I think you would need to search for a different definition; there is little to be gained from hailing to the whims of subjectivity (i.e, the majority of New Religious Movements). There is a recognised criteria for god, and this thread is aimed very specifically at one such god.

That God does not exist, but if he does, well, we're all in a lot of trouble.
 
VirusType2 said:
- Meaning it's slowed down quite a bit, I've heard recently. (Probably on History channel's 'Universe' series, but might have been something else) I didn't mean to suggest that it had stopped. I think they were implying that it was 'hellfire' from every angle and now it's relatively calmed down.
Click to expand...
No, the expansion of the Universe is accelerating according to current data.
 
The universe is expanding at multiple points. This fact by it's self proves the big bang theory is nonsense as the big bang would create a single point of growth from which we are ejected from.

I win again *sigh*
 
Baserape> said:
The universe is expanding at multiple points. This fact by it's self proves the big bang theory is nonsense as the big bang would create a single point of growth from which we are ejected from.

I win again *sigh*
Click to expand...

You're kidding.
 
I'm no theoretical astrophysicist but maybe these 'extra expansion points' were faux-points caused by gravity shifting some objects so they change direction...so it only looks like they're expanding from a different point...maybe.

On a side note, I think if you want to use something as your source you should at least cite it; and "just google it" or "go back to school" aren't real citations. -_-
 
The universe is not "expanding at multiple points" as in, multiple, discrete points. The universe is expanding at ALL points. Space itself is growing. That is why it appears that everything is moving away from us.
 
BHC said:
Of course god exists.

To theists.
Click to expand...

Of course flying snizzlewits exist.

To snizzlewittians.


Of course square triangles exist.

To triangularians.


Of course the flying spaghetti monster exists.

To pastafarians.


Sorry, but something either exists or it doesn't. Epistemology isn't a relativistic crapshoot, its an absolute notion.
 
theotherguy said:
Sorry, but something either exists or it doesn't. Epistemology isn't a relativistic crapshoot, its an absolute notion.
Click to expand...

Existence is very much a relative thing. For any defined entity which does not exist according to me, I also do not exist. However, things which do not exist in my reference may exist in a complete separate reference. And all of this exists without any logical impossibilities.

Consider the simplest possible universe, or state of existence if you wish, a single binary data point with no dimensions. This universe has only one attribute, one measure. From the reference point of that universe, I do not exist. The entire notion of complex life would be laughable if that universe had the complexity to support laughter. Get it?

And a universe is not just defined as this absolute completely logical system external to our being. The universe is actually defined by the perceiver, because perception is the only true measure of existence. The universe (or any universe) is not a complete and absolute environment independent of any human being, no the universe is only defined at the boundary of your own definition. Without you, the universe does not exist. Without the universe you don't exist. Both are mutually defined, and the only complete simultaneous definition of both entities then is the interface between them. Of course defining your identity is no less complex than defining the universe, and both are mathematically impossible to have complete knowledge of from within themselves.

This is not a regurgitated theory, it is simply an extension of logic and the definition of existence. It requires no frame of reference or physical measurement, it is simply a restatement of self defined entities. I should really write all of this down eventually, but the facts must be self evident to anyone who has spent any amount of time considering their own existence.
 
Dan said:
Existence is very much a relative thing. For any defined entity which does not exist according to me, I also do not exist. However, things which do not exist in my reference may exist in a complete separate reference. And all of this exists without any logical impossibilities.
Click to expand...

Is that so? Can you please provide a definition of existence that isn't referentially transparent with "perception" or "knowledge"? Because it seems to me that you are confusing these terms. Something can't "exist in your reference frame." If you even HAVE a reference frame, you exist. Something which does not exist cannot have a reference frame. Something cannot exist "according to you." A "defined entity" may either exist or not, in spite of your knowledge, perception, or belief of its existence.

Dan said:
Consider the simplest possible universe, or state of existence if you wish, a single binary data point with no dimensions. This universe has only one attribute, one measure. From the reference point of that universe, I do not exist. The entire notion of complex life would be laughable if that universe had the complexity to support laughter. Get it?
Click to expand...

No, I don't. In such a universe, you would not exist. Luckily, this is not the universe we live in.


Dan said:
And a universe is not just defined as this absolute completely logical system external to our being. The universe is actually defined by the perceiver, because perception is the only true measure of existence.
Click to expand...
Even though we know that we can only measure the universe through our perceptions, this does not mean that the universe is defined by our perceptions. I may measure a meter with a meter stick, yet what I measured would still be a meter long regardless of whether or not my meter stick was 1.000 meters or 1.0001 meters. I may disagree on the measure, I may test with different devices, but the meter long object will be a meter long no matter what measurements I take. Similarly, my perceptions may be flawed, my perceptions may be completely wrong, and the universe may exist in a totally different state than what I perceive it to be -- but no matter what my perceptions are, the universe will remain the same, independent of them.


Dan said:
The universe (or any universe) is not a complete and absolute environment independent of any human being, no the universe is only defined at the boundary of your own definition. Without you, the universe does not exist.
Click to expand...
If you mean that I am part of the universe, that is true. However if I were not here the universe would be nearly identical to what it is now.

Dan said:
Without the universe you don't exist. Both are mutually defined, and the only complete simultaneous definition of both entities then is the interface between them. Of course defining your identity is no less complex than defining the universe, and both are mathematically impossible to have complete knowledge of from within themselves.
Click to expand...
This is true I suppose.


Dan said:
This is not a regurgitated theory, it is simply an extension of logic and the definition of existence. It requires no frame of reference or physical measurement, it is simply a restatement of self defined entities. I should really write all of this down eventually, but the facts must be self evident to anyone who has spent any amount of time considering their own existence.
Click to expand...
It is evident that I am part of the universe and hence comprise part of its definition. However, that does not mean that what I perceive to exist must exist, or things which I cannot perceive do not exist "in my reference frame." These are hardly self-evident, and in fact contradict every intuition I have.
 
Hey guys, I'd like to tell you something: No.



Unexpected_End_Of_Thread_Found_Error
 
God made the universe, he must have. Only such a being could create something from nothing! I may be mad but that doesn't mean I'm not right.
 
Sorry to just jump in here, but I just want to add my opinion to the title question.

I'm only 18, but for the past 5 years, I've spent a long time pondering the question at hand, and the question of "is religion right" and "which religion should I be". Of course, we all go through the phase where we just want to choose something ridiculous (mine included Jedi and Wizard), but in the end, we all choose something sensible.

I have a very good friend, who is a Christian. She has countless times offered me help and support about this question, and she absolutely believes in God. Personally, I believe there is a God, but I don't think we believe in the same God. She believes that God is watching over her all the time, helping her and guiding her in every decision she takes. I, however, put my God at a more scientific approach. I believe that God started the Big Bang, and then left the Universe to do what it had to - created the rules and started it, if you like.

That would account for a Big Bang, and evolution, for which there is increasing evidence. This believe, strangely, has been pretty much the same as my Dad's was, and as such we are now part of the same religion of Unitarians.

So ultimately, I believe there is a God, it's just a question of what God did that I don't always agree with.
 
AllFallD0wn said:
Sorry to just jump in here, but I just want to add my opinion to the title question.

I'm only 18, but for the past 5 years, I've spent a long time pondering the question at hand, and the question of "is religion right" and "which religion should I be". Of course, we all go through the phase where we just want to choose something ridiculous (mine included Jedi and Wizard), but in the end, we all choose something sensible.

I have a very good friend, who is a Christian. She has countless times offered me help and support about this question, and she absolutely believes in God. Personally, I believe there is a God, but I don't think we believe in the same God. She believes that God is watching over her all the time, helping her and guiding her in every decision she takes. I, however, put my God at a more scientific approach. I believe that God started the Big Bang, and then left the Universe to do what it had to - created the rules and started it, if you like.

That would account for a Big Bang, and evolution, for which there is increasing evidence. This believe, strangely, has been pretty much the same as my Dad's was, and as such we are now part of the same religion of Unitarians.

So ultimately, I believe there is a God, it's just a question of what God did that I don't always agree with.
Click to expand...
The scientific approach to a god is to not invoke one in the first place. All you've done is put him conveniently in a place no one can look.
 
AllFallD0wn said:
Sorry to just jump in here, but I just want to add my opinion to the title question.

I'm only 18, but for the past 5 years, I've spent a long time pondering the question at hand, and the question of "is religion right" and "which religion should I be". Of course, we all go through the phase where we just want to choose something ridiculous (mine included Jedi and Wizard), but in the end, we all choose something sensible.
Click to expand...

Approximately one year ago, at the tender age of 15, I released myself officially from the shackles of religion.

Except Dioism but that is the one true religion.

hail dio
 
RidleyRockets said:
The scientific approach to a god is to not invoke one in the first place. All you've done is put him conveniently in a place no one can look.
Click to expand...

But, from my point of view anyway, if you think that they have pretty much proved the Big Bang took place, then that begs the question, who made the gasses and the spark?
 
What do you mean by "officially", Ace? I don't think I've officially been released of my shackles, though I don't mind. They don't chafe much.

Edit: You do realize that after a certain point, there can be no cause or creator to these forces. They simply are.
 
Corp. Sheepo said:
What do you mean by "officially", Ace? I don't think I've officially been released of my shackles, though I don't mind. They don't chafe much.

Edit: You do realize that after a certain point, there can be no cause or creator to these forces. They simply are.
Click to expand...

Yes. I do realise this, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it ;)
 
Corp. Sheepo said:
What do you mean by "officially", Ace? I don't think I've officially been released of my shackles, though I don't mind. They don't chafe much.

Edit: You do realize that after a certain point, there can be no cause or creator to these forces. They simply are.
Click to expand...

By officially I mean I do not acknowledge there even being a christian god at all. It's not doubt anymore, it's just acceptance. Also, I pretty much don't talk about religion at all except in silly threads like these. It's just not part of my life anymore(except with my grandparents but I know I would probably be the death of them if I told them such.).
 
AllFallD0wn said:
But, from my point of view anyway, if you think that they have pretty much proved the Big Bang took place, then that begs the question, who made the gasses and the spark?
Click to expand...
The honest answer is to say "i don't know" and hope people are working on an answer (which they are). Making up a magic man to answer a question doesn't really answer anything, in fact it only leaves you with more questions such as who made the magic man?
 
Hey guys I found definitive proof that evolution is a hoax!

Jesus Is Savior

I heard a scoffer remark that God couldn't have created light (1st day) before the Sun (4th day). Yes, He could, He can do anything.
Click to expand...


Do they not say that a gorilla is their Grandpa? That there is a bird in my family tree? How about a rat?
Click to expand...

Oh good lol!
 
I know I'm a little late to the discussion, but here's my two cents.

We cannot prove or disprove the existence of God.

Science leaves questions unanswered.

People adopted faith in order to avoid a nihilistic and depressing view on the world.

I don't know about many other faiths, but I do know that the modern Catholic viewpoint states that faith and reason go hand in hand. You cannot have reason without faith, and you cannot have faith without reason.

Until either science or religion finds definitive evidence, then I believe that there will always be struggle between these two facets of life.
 
RidleyRockets said:
The honest answer is to say "i don't know" and hope people are working on an answer (which they are). Making up a magic man to answer a question doesn't really answer anything, in fact it only leaves you with more questions such as who made the magic man?
Click to expand...

It doesn't have to be an invisible man. Think about it. If we find out how to make a higgs boson, then we, too may hold the key to the universe, and indeed creating a universe. Maybe we are just the work of scientists in another universe who have too discovered the higgs boson.
However, this is just a theory, and there are many of them.
 
AllFallD0wn said:
I, however, put my God at a more scientific approach. I believe that God started the Big Bang, and then left the Universe to do what it had to - created the rules and started it, if you like.
Click to expand...

Yup, just like every other religious person who has come before you. You're just moving God to a new spot to explain something we don't yet understand.

Where did man come from? God made us. Oops, that was wrong, it was evolution that made us.

Where did evolution come from? God made evolution. Oops, evolution came from the myriad of circumstances that exist on the planet.

Where did the planet come from? God made the planet. Oops, the planet is one of the results that came from the big bang.

Where did the big bang come from? God made the big bang.

God is a placebo.
 
AllFallD0wn said:
It doesn't have to be an invisible man. Think about it. If we find out how to make a higgs boson, then we, too may hold the key to the universe, and indeed creating a universe.
Click to expand...
No. Go read about the higgs boson.

AllFallD0wn said:
Maybe we are just the work of scientists in another universe who have too discovered the higgs boson.
However, this is just a theory, and there are many of them.
Click to expand...
Then a god didn't create the universe, some scientists would have.
 
PvtRyan said:
Eh. I beg to differ.
Click to expand...

Could you clarify?

Reason and science require faith that your unproven postulates are correct.

For example: If one of Euclid's postulates is false, then almost all of conventional geometry falls apart.

Also, Krynn: The same could be said about science. When one theory is disproved another simply takes it's place, with no guarantee that it will not be disproved.

Examples I might quote: Geocentric theory, Heliocentric theory, Dalton's model of the atom, Bohr's model of the atom, Newtonian physics.
 
AllFallD0wn said:
Yes. I do realise this, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it ;)
Click to expand...

Well you won't really know. The bridge could be the big bang. The big bang simply is.

Acepilotf14 said:
By officially I mean I do not acknowledge there even being a christian god at all. It's not doubt anymore, it's just acceptance. Also, I pretty much don't talk about religion at all except in silly threads like these. It's just not part of my life anymore(except with my grandparents but I know I would probably be the death of them if I told them such.).
Click to expand...

Pretty much how I be rollin' right now. I thought official might refer to being removed from a religious registry or something.
 
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