dude, even Doom3 has DM remake but hl2 is left empty handed?

[Fafnir]

Id be upset if there where no 'Manipulator only' death match mode in HL2. Picking up loose objects to try and kill each other with, having the enemy catch what you threw and chase you half-way across the map to fire it back at you...... sounds great :cheers:

 

[Subz]

indeed. hl2 vanilla DM.

 

[Sparta]

Yes, Manipulator Deathmatch would rock my socks. Which means i'll have to buy yet ANOTHER pair of socks.......far out

 

[ShadowFox]

I would like to believe that there is going to be some kind of multiplayer other than CS. However I am losing hope. Valve have had plenty of opportunities to clearly say "There will be a Half-Life flavoured multiplayer aspect to Half Life 2 in addition to CS:S", instead all we've had have been some somewhat vague and cryptic comments that neither confirm nor deny that CS:S is the only multiplayer.

For six years Valve gave cryptic answers whenever asked if there would be a Half-Life 2. I wouldn't concern yourself. It's called Lombardi 101.

 

[OCybrManO]

I would like to believe that there is going to be some kind of multiplayer other than CS. However I am losing hope. Valve have had plenty of opportunities to clearly say "There will be a Half-Life flavoured multiplayer aspect to Half Life 2 in addition to CS:S", instead all we've had have been some somewhat vague and cryptic comments that neither confirm nor deny that CS:S is the only multiplayer.

Posts 659 & 660 of the "Info you've received from valve" thread are about as close as your going to get to a confirmation that there is indeed a HL2 multiplayer component.

 

[Brian Damage]

How about the statement that CS: S would be included with all versions of HL2? If the SP version HL2 is coming with CS: S, that means that there must be a HL2 MP in the SP+MP version of HL2.

 

[OCybrManO]

You forgot one: Steam subscription for a monthly fee.

So, even without SP+MP that makes three versions (plain retail, collector's edition, and subscription)... and three is enough to qualify for use of the word "all."

 

[Gossoon]

I've been wondering why the SP version would even come with CS:S. What is the point? There is no bot support and SP is for people who have no interest in online action anyway. Seems weird.

 

[lans]

i dont mind that much> CS:S is looking insanely good. and so are several mod projects.


but i really loved HLM. Just imagine popping manipulator and buggy(car) combat as son as gettin the game in a new "CROSSFIRE" or "BUNKER" right after gettin game not waiting months for some half-assed mod.

You say it looks insanely good, then you say it's a half-assed mod. Make up your mind. :dozey:

 

[Brian Damage]

You forgot one: Steam subscription for a monthly fee.

So, even without SP+MP that makes three versions (plain retail, collector's edition, and subscription)... and three is enough to qualify for use of the word "all."

Okay, I forgot the collectors edition and the steam subscription one. Thanks, but I still think, as I've said elsewhere, that the term "all versions" refers to SP, SP+MP, Collectors, and, yes, Steam HL2. I'll amend my statement for you.

"How about the statement that CS: S would be included with all versions of HL2? If the SP version HL2 is coming with CS: S, that means that there must be a HL2 MP in the SP+MP, Collectors, and Steam versions of HL2."

I think they want to put CS: S in just so the magazines and such will say "OMG! HL2 ARE TEH ROXXOR AND IT HAS TEH BONUS GAME!"...

 

[Lanthanide]

When was the last time we even heard about this single player edition? AFAIK, it was months and months ago - they may not even be doing it any more. Stupid idea to begin with IMO, just confuses ignorant shoppers who aren't aware of the differences.

And as for "they never said anything about HL2 all those years, so why should they say anything about the MP in HL2 now?" - they don't have to tell us -anything- about what it is, simply that it exists. Sure, it won't mean crap in the long run, once the game is out it's out and it'll be the way it is, but it would be nice for them to inform the fans, some of whom are quite worried, about what is going on in regards to this area of the game - we've heard some rough details about most other parts of the game (returning enemies, weapons, general storyline etc), but nothing concrete in this area at all. I simply don't see any real reason for this, other than
1) incompetence when it comes to media relations (wouldn't be the first time)
2) non-existence of feature
3) doubtful inclusion in boxed product but possible activation a month or so later.

 

[Gunner]

Okay this is getting really annoying, c'mon do you really think there is no MP? what makes you think there is no MP first of all? did they say "all you gets iz CS so stfu newb?" no! They said they have a MP and it's not going to be revealed until HL2 has gone retail/gold whatever. Every god damn FPS game has MP so why not HL2? just because they didn't tell you what it consists of you automatically assume they don't have one? excuse my french but that's ****ing stupid.

 

[Lanthanide]

No, not every game. Thief 3 does not have multiplayer. I'm sure there are lots of others that don't also.

I've never even said that I want to know what it -is-, just a definitive comfirmation that it does actually exist.

Note that they have not said, since CS:S was revealed (or thereabouts) "there is a Half-Life 2 themed multiplayer mode in HL2" - all of their hints from the very beginning could have referred to CS:S and/or DoD:S etc (they may have originally planned for all the source ports to be included, but due to time constraints can now no longer do this), so you can't look at old quotes as definitive evidence of a distinct HL2 flavoured MP mode, as far as I am concerned. You may have a different opinion however, and you're entitled to that, but with the evidence at hand this is my conclusion.

 

[Asuka]

CS:Source will be one facet of the mutiplayer of HL2, and we don't know crap about anything else. CS:S is PART of the HL2 multiplayer, therefore it could be stated as being the HL2 MP, though other MP options are sure to exist (hopefully) at release.

Rgr. Agreed.

 

[Gunner]

No, not every game. Thief 3 does not have multiplayer. I'm sure there are lots of others that don't also.

Hmmm Thief isn't exactly an FPS shooter, that's what I meant when I said FPS games. Besides who the hell would want to play Thief in MP, what would you do in DM? steal the other guy's loot?

The HL2 setting is so versatile that the possibilities for MP are endless, the resistance Vs. combine has mentioned a dozen times, plain DM is also a good MP, or another team based mode like CTF or whatever. If we can come up with these ideas, trust me, Valve has already thought of them long before us.

 

[Dead-Inside]

Quoted for emphisis. Valve aren't that stupid.

Indeed... But people still believe they are.

Since everyone would be shit-mad if only CS:S went along with HL2, VALVe will obviously have made a seperate MP for HL2.

Besides, they have endless possibilities. I mean, think Manipulator War maps (MW_Garbagedisposal) or Resistance VS. Combine (rc/rvc_citydocks) or maybe Zombie Wars? Or Creature Wars kinda thing? I mean wouldn't you want to be a strider?

One if not all of those will be in HL2 MP. And yes, I'll put my signature on that.

Regards
Dead-Inside

 

[Lanthanide]

That doesn't mean they had the time to implement them.

Doom 3 has MP DM with 4 players apparently. IMO that pretty much counts as an FPS that doesn't have a multiplayer, and a very big named one at that, coming out at the same time with a similar development time line to HL2.

It's not out of the question that HL2 will not have a destinct HL2-themed multiplayer at release, and until someone from valve clearly states otherwise, I'm not getting my hopes up.

 

[Punzz]

4 player deathmatch doesn't exactly yank my crank.

In fact neither does deathmatch.

CS:S will be a lot more fun that Doom 3's multiplayer.

Doom3 is moddable for more than 4 players :thumbs:

 

[JohnnyBeverage]

I imagine the guys at valve reading these threads and laughing as people go at each others throats over what they think the MP will be. :hmph:

 

[Sparta]

Doom3 is moddable for more than 4 players :thumbs:

Up to 16 players i believe.

Valve have said its possible to have up to 128 or even 256.

16 doesn't quite compete with 128

 

[Neutrino]

That doesn't mean they had the time to implement them.

Doom 3 has MP DM with 4 players apparently. IMO that pretty much counts as an FPS that doesn't have a multiplayer, and a very big named one at that, coming out at the same time with a similar development time line to HL2.

It's not out of the question that HL2 will not have a destinct HL2-themed multiplayer at release, and until someone from valve clearly states otherwise, I'm not getting my hopes up.

Just to give you a bit of support, I'm one of the apparently few who agree with you.

The more I think about it though, I don't even really see why people say they will have a problem with Valve if they don't have MP. I mean after all you're going to have tons of classic mods like CS:S, DOD:S, NS:S, Sven Coop:S plus all the new original mods. In fact, when I think about in that light, I don't even see a need for Valve to even bother messing with it themselves, besides doing the source ports. So in the end, even if they don't create their own unique multiplayer component HL2 will still have the biggest MP community of any game.

 

[ShadowFox]

Doom 3 has MP DM with 4 players apparently. IMO that pretty much counts as an FPS that doesn't have a multiplayer, and a very big named one at that, coming out at the same time with a similar development time line to HL2.

Bull. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it isn't multiplayer. I am very much anticipating Doom 3's MP, as the low playercounts and inherent atmosphere promise to make it a intimate experience.

 

[Seppo]

Up to 16 players i believe.

Valve have said its possible to have up to 128 or even 256.

16 doesn't quite compete with 128

It's not only a question of quantity, it's the quality that counts

Don't you think it would get a bit crowded if there were 256 players running in dark and narrow corridors

 

[Sparta]

Damn straight. But since the engine is capable of more players an bigger levels, i'd prefer to play big levels like DoD size with 16 or more players then a map for 4 people with 16 players

 

[Lanthanide]

It's not multiplayer in the sense of what we have come to know as multiplayer for online games: ie, games with at least 16 players and lots of different modes etc etc.

Yes, technically it -is- multiplayer, but IMO it isn't really a 'proper' multiplayer mode.


How many people here would be content if we found out that yes, HL2 does have multiplayer, but it can only support 4 people (at release)?

 

[PvtRyan]

Doom3 has a good d3 themed deatmatch and a remake of the classic level "THE EDGE" from quake2.

hl2 has...............cs?

I'd call cs a hell of a lot better multiplayer than a simple DM mode. Making a DM mode would have been the easy way out.
HL2 has a better multiplayer (assuming cs:s is the only one) than HL1 had.

 

[Gunner]

It's not multiplayer in the sense of what we have come to know as multiplayer for online games: ie, games with at least 16 players and lots of different modes etc etc.

Yes, technically it -is- multiplayer, but IMO it isn't really a 'proper' multiplayer mode.


How many people here would be content if we found out that yes, HL2 does have multiplayer, but it can only support 4 people (at release)?

Proper multiplayer? you haven't tried it neither have I but I'm sure it's good fun anyway, dark rooms, creeping through claustrophobic corridors. Point is you don't need a thousand players to have fun. And as it was pointed out previously: the source engine supports up to 256 players, I doubt they would go from 32 max players to 4. Doesn't make any sense, and you can't really compare it to Doom MP because Doom isn't played online uptill this day, HL is however, through mods like DoD & CS.

 

[ShadowFox]

It's not multiplayer in the sense of what we have come to know as multiplayer for online games: ie, games with at least 16 players and lots of different modes etc etc.

Yes, technically it -is- multiplayer, but IMO it isn't really a 'proper' multiplayer mode.


How many people here would be content if we found out that yes, HL2 does have multiplayer, but it can only support 4 people (at release)?

I don't see how it isn't proper. A few years ago, it was the 'only' multiplayer mode.

As for HL2, it is a different game with different intentions. Doom 3 is all about dark, small corridors while HL2 tries to render a whole city with vehicles and such.

 

[Neutrino]

Well I've decided to stake out my position in this little controversy in my sig. Let's see if I'll be eating my words in a month or two.

 

[Lanthanide]

I personally do not consider 4 player DM to be 'proper multiplayer', fun or not. You are entitled to your own opinion however.

If HL2 came out with 4 player DM, I would also not consider that to be 'proper multiplayer', and I think that many magazines would agree with me (I can already see that Doom3 is going to lose some points in pretty much all reviews for it's limited MP).

Whether or not the previous incarnation of a game has been played online has nothing to do with the current game. It's actually a nonsensical consideration. And you somewhat contradict yourself - you say that HL is played, but then you say it's actually the mods of HL that are played and not HL itself. One could also consider Quack 1-3 as being the 'mods' or sequals to Doom, since they pretty much are (only -real- difference is the weapons).

I don't see how it isn't proper. A few years ago, it was the 'only' multiplayer mode.

Exactly. A few years ago. This isn't a few years ago. It is no longer appropriate in the current gaming climate to consider 4 player DM as 'real' multiplayer.

As for HL2 rendering entire cities - what does that have to do with the multiplayer? Nothing at all. Just because the single player has large levels, doesn't mean the multiplayer -will-. They could just as easily make small levels for HL2 multiplayer with a max of 4 players.

Furthermore, the single player style doesn't have to carry over to multiplayer either - sure, Doom 3 may be best suited for small, dark environments, but there's nothing stopping someone creating a bright happy shadow-less carnival level for multiplayer, just as there is nothing stopping someone creating a small HL2 level set on xen, even though you never go to xen in the single player. So this arguement too, is empty.

 

[Punzz]

DELETE THIS POST

 

[Gunner]

Whether or not the previous incarnation of a game has been played online has nothing to do with the current game. It's actually a nonsensical consideration. And you somewhat contradict yourself - you say that HL is played, but then you say it's actually the mods of HL that are played and not HL itself. One could also consider Quack 1-3 as being the 'mods' or sequals to Doom, since they pretty much are (only -real- difference is the weapons).

Gah... I said HL is played through its' mods. And whatever you don't believe HL2 will have MP, but you will be eating your heart out : P

 

[ShadowFox]

Don't mistake my arguement. Doom 3 is no Quake 3 or UT. It isn't going to be bought for its multiplayer alone. But to say it doesn't have real multiplayer is insane.

Besides, what else fits the Doom universe? TDM would work. Coop would work (but they decided to **** the PC gamer with that one). Nothing else really works with Doom.

 

[Lanthanide]

Then Doom (1 and 2) are played through their half-brothers Quack 1-3.

So that arguement (such as it was) is moot.

I still have not seen any evidence to suggest that there will be a destinct HL2 MP. I sincerely hope that there will be, and I think Valve would be stupid not to include one, but I simply do not see the evidence.



ShadowFox - why doesn't anything else work with Doom? Could it be that you don't think something like capture the flag would be a 'proper' multiplayer mode for Doom 3 to have? Why does it have to "fit the Doom universe" in order to be included?

 

[Punzz]

Up to 16 players i believe.

Valve have said its possible to have up to 128 or even 256.

16 doesn't quite compete with 128

16 or 128 (which i doubt anyones PC could handle) I still intend to play both games.

And another thing, even if HL2 doesn't have its own SP themed (weapons, character models) multiplayer i'm sure it will be fairly simple as the content is already built into the game, just a matter of creating game modes with it. (dont flame me as i'm not a modder!)

 

[ShadowFox]

Furthermore, the single player style doesn't have to carry over to multiplayer either - sure, Doom 3 may be best suited for small, dark environments, but there's nothing stopping someone creating a bright happy shadow-less carnival level for multiplayer, just as there is nothing stopping someone creating a small HL2 level set on xen, even though you never go to xen in the single player. So this arguement too, is empty.

Your right. Nothing is stopping people from making these maps. And they will be made. But clearly it goes outside of the developers intentions. Believe me, if you want a super big, super bright map, you won't have to wait long before some mapper makes one.

I fail to see the problem with id doing something different than everybody else.

 

[Gunner]

Then Doom (1 and 2) are played through their half-brothers Quack 1-3.

So that arguement (such as it was) is moot.

Compare the numbers, find out how many people play Q3 online and then HL and its' mods combined. You'll be amazed. Besides D3 isn't about multiplayer, I think that's why they're coming out with Q4.

 

[Lanthanide]

So you go from saying "no one plays anything like Doom but heaps of people play something like half life" to saying "not many people play anything like Doom" when I prove you wrong. Hmm.

Numbers of players again has no bearing on whether something should include it's own multiplayer mode - you just said yourself that Half Life is popular because of it's mods, not HL DM. So why would they include an HL2 DM?

If anything it'd be the opposite - Carmack should want to make Doom 3 have excellent multiplayer in order to try an rival what HL has built up and HL2 will (should) have. Unless, as you say, D3 was never intended to be multiplayer and it is simply a bit on the side to sate reviewers until some mod teams can do the job properly in 6 months time.

 

[Lanthanide]

Your right. Nothing is stopping people from making these maps. And they will be made. But clearly it goes outside of the developers intentions. Believe me, if you want a super big, super bright map, you won't have to wait long before some mapper makes one.

I fail to see the problem with id doing something different than everybody else.

How do you know the developers -haven't- done this?

And as you say with your final line - what if ID do something different and include some random maps in D3 multiplayer that go completely against the theme of the game?

 

[ShadowFox]

Unless, as you say, D3 was never intended to be multiplayer and it is simply a bit on the side to sate reviewers until some mod teams can do the job properly in 6 months time.

This is in fact, for the most part, true. Doom 3 was never mean't to have a MP, and it was only after the fact that the game was announced that they decided to include such a feature.

As to why HL2 will have MP.. the same reason D3 has MP. You just don't put out a game without multiplayer these days. It isn't good for the bottom line.

And I bet you Carmack and id have no concerns about rivaling anything Valve does.