dude, even Doom3 has DM remake but hl2 is left empty handed?

[.5c0ut-WHoR3.]

Ok with my superior ability i have found out that there is normal hl2 multiplayer... you know why? because SVEN COOP 2 for HL2 .... and we all know sven coop was hl multiplayer coop thus there is hl2 multiplayer.

 

[Lanthanide]

D3's MP is nothing but a token, as you say, and I would be dissapointed if HL2 had nothing but a token MP mode, and I think many others would be also.

I don't consider token MP modes to be 'proper' multiplayer modes. But you share a different opinion on this matter, so I guess we'll never agree.



Actually it's Sven Coop: Source, and it won't be ready in time for HL2's release.

 

[Mr-Fusion]

Ok with my superior ability i have found out that there is normal hl2 multiplayer... you know why? because SVEN COOP 2 for HL2 .... and we all know sven coop was hl multiplayer coop thus there is hl2 multiplayer.

wtf

.....

 

[Gunner]

So you go from saying "no one plays anything like Doom but heaps of people play something like half life" to saying "not many people play anything like Doom" when I prove you wrong. Hmm.

Hmm the Quake series aren't exactly doom mods, it's not the same thing as CS which is a mod built on the Half-life engine.

Numbers of players again has no bearing on whether something should include it's own multiplayer mode - you just said yourself that Half Life is popular because of it's mods, not HL DM. So why would they include an HL2 DM?

Of course the number of players has everything to do with this argument, Half-Life is popular today because of its' mods, but back in 1998 when it was released and up untill CS really began to lift off in 2000-2001 a whole lot of people were still playing HLDM.

 

[Neutrino]

Ok with my superior ability i have found out that there is normal hl2 multiplayer... you know why? because SVEN COOP 2 for HL2 .... and we all know sven coop was hl multiplayer coop thus there is hl2 multiplayer.

Of course HL2 will have the netcode for HL2 multiplayer. That's not in question.

As for the rest of your statement, that doesn't prove anything, or make any sense. Sven Coop is just a mod. They can easily take the weapons from HL2 and make their own multiplayer even if Valve doesn't do one themselves.

 

[Lanthanide]

Hmm the Quake series aren't exactly doom mods, it's not the same thing as CS which is a mod built on the Half-life engine.

What does the engine a particular game (mod) runs on have to do with the original game that was built on that engine? Sorry, I don't see any connection here.

Of course the number of players has everything to do with this argument, Half-Life is popular today because of its' mods, but back in 1998 when it was released and up untill CS really began to lift off in 2000-2001 a whole lot of people were still playing HLDM.

I can easily use your argument against you here, "compare the numbers of players who play HL: DM compared to all the mods for Half Life", I think you'll see that people really don't play HL DM very much, compared to the mods. So again, why would you need to include HL2 DM if the mods will suffice and keep the vast majority of players happy?

 

[ShadowFox]

I can easily use your argument against you here, "compare the numbers of players who play HLM compared to all the mods for Half Life", I think you'll see that people really don't play HL DM very much, compared to the mods. So again, why would you need to include HL2 DM if the mods will suffice and keep the vast majority of players happy?

Sure.. and we live in the year 2004. Go back to 1999 and find out what HL players did online. I bet you CS would have never been created if HLDM hadn't proved the game had a solid net code and a large player-base to target.

 

[Punzz]

Ok with my superior ability i have found out that there is normal hl2 multiplayer... you know why? because SVEN COOP 2 for HL2 .... and we all know sven coop was hl multiplayer coop thus there is hl2 multiplayer.

I suppose thats a good point. I'd rather play Sven-Coop than HLDM

 

[Lanthanide]

Sure.. and we live in the year 2004. Go back to 1999 and find out what HL players did online. I bet you CS would have never been created if HLDM hadn't proved the game had a solid net code and a large player-base to target.

Yes, but now that CS exists, there is no need for an HL2 DM in order to spark a big multiplayer modding revolution, because it has already happened and is already targetted itself at HL2, whether it comes with DM or not.

So yet again, the argument is moot.

It's even worse when you consider that they don't need to make an HL2 DM in order to tide people over, because HL2 is going to come with CS: S anyway

 

[Fatality_]

Doom3 has a good d3 themed deatmatch and a remake of the classic level "THE EDGE" from quake2.

hl2 has...............cs?

Who cares.

 

[.5c0ut-WHoR3.]

Seriously DM is pretty boring/repeditite when you thinka bout it, even with the vechiles and the physics system.

That's why sven coop2 is here for us

 

[Gunner]

Yes, but now that CS exists, there is no need for an HL2 DM.

Well that's just how you see it, Shadowfox understands what I mean. You don't know what HL2's multiplayer will be, that's the whole bloody point god damnit, that's why they kept it secret and under wraps because it will be something big.

 

[ShadowFox]

Exactly. Should Valve not have made a SP either since we have things like They Hunger? Surely some SP mods will come out.

You are semi-correct. There isn't really a need for HL2 DM (except for DMers, but who needs em according to your logic), but that doesn't mean Valve isn't working on something completely different for HL2 MP. HL was successful because it didn't just rehash what had been done before and I bet Valve is itching to make its mark in the MP arena as it did in the SP arena with HL.

 

[el Chi]

Okay this is getting really annoying, c'mon do you really think there is no MP? what makes you think there is no MP first of all? did they say "all you gets iz CS so stfu newb?" no! They said they have a MP and it's not going to be revealed until HL2 has gone retail/gold whatever. Every god damn FPS game has MP so why not HL2? just because they didn't tell you what it consists of you automatically assume they don't have one? excuse my french but that's ****ing stupid.

"A voice of sanity in a rolling sea of stupidity" Yeah it's from VCPR, but it's so fitting.
There are so many reasons why Valve not including MP would be tantamount to commercial suicide, not to mention their integrity.

First off, they have constantly reassured everyone that there will be multiplayer. Now before you cite the 30th Sept. debacle, the issue is as follows: Valve have made a lot of promises; now if they fail on these then that destroys whatever credibility they have as a developer and will severely damage the reviews they get and as such the sales. Failing on the promises they have made is, simply put, not an option and this may go some way to explaining the game's increasing devlopment time. To be honest I hardly think that this is a bad thing.

There are many MP mods in production and, once again, Valve cannot disappoint these teams. Valve have constantly said that Source has been made and tweaked with mods constantly in mind; this is from a developer that prides itself on a close relationship with the modding community which would be effectively ruined if it's not true.

As far as I'm aware, an FPS sans MP just doesn't happen. I believe Unreal 2 was an exception to the rule, but they swiftly remedied that with a hefty patch if I'm not mistaken. Why? Because it detracted from their reviews and a lack of MP would do the same for HL2.

Finally, their deciding that CS: Source being the only MP available at the start is such a ludicrous notion and any statements claiming that are insults to Valve's intelligence.

The rumours that it has no MP are as unfounded as most of the other conspiracy theories surrounding Valve and HL2. Stop pissing about and just strap on your tin foil helmets. Saying there's no MP simply because Valve haven't revealed it yet is like saying there are no other weapons, aliens or plot developments in HL2 because we haven't seen them :hmph:

End rant.

 

[ShadowFox]

el Chi gets it. Ignoring everything else, it just doesn't make sense from a sales standpoint not to include some sort of functioning MP. Now whether it is the same old, same old; or whether it is something completely new and exciting, that is up to Valve.

 

[Dalamari]

I love ignorance.

 

[Neutrino]

"A voice of sanity in a rolling sea of stupidity" Yeah it's from VCPR, but it's so fitting.
There are so many reasons why Valve not including MP would be tantamount to commercial suicide, not to mention their integrity.

Tantamount to commercial suicide? I highly doubt that. I'm sure they'd do just fine even if all they had was a single player game.

First off, they have constantly reassured everyone that there will be multiplayer. Now before you cite the 30th Sept. debacle, the issue is as follows: Valve have made a lot of promises; now if they fail on these then that destroys whatever credibility they have as a developer and will severely damage the reviews they get and as such the sales. Failing on the promises they have made is, simply put, not an option and this may go some way to explaining the game's increasing devlopment time. To be honest I hardly think that this is a bad thing.

Ok, they've reassured everyone that there will be a multiplayer. Of course there will be. They already confirmed it will ship with CS:S. They've never openly claimed to have a seperate multiplayer from that. Therefore they're not breaking any promises at all by just using CS:S.

There are many MP mods in production and, once again, Valve cannot disappoint these teams. Valve have constantly said that Source has been made and tweaked with mods constantly in mind; this is from a developer that prides itself on a close relationship with the modding community which would be effectively ruined if it's not true.

I'm sure they won't disapoint these teams. The mod teams don't need an HL2DM or any other Valve made MP. They just need the SDK with good documentation, which I'm quite sure Valve will supply.

As far as I'm aware, an FPS sans MP just doesn't happen. I believe Unreal 2 was an exception to the rule, but they swiftly remedied that with a hefty patch if I'm not mistaken. Why? Because it detracted from their reviews and a lack of MP would do the same for HL2.

But either way HL2 will of course have a multiplayer! Even if I'm right and they don't have their own MP component, HL2 will still have the largest MP community on the web! I mean with games like CS:S, NS:S, DOD:S, Sven Coop 2, etc, etc, etc I'm sure no reviewer is going to bash HL2 for a lack of multiplayer. That'd be ridiculous.

Finally, their deciding that CS: Source being the only MP available at the start is such a ludicrous notion and any statements claiming that are insults to Valve's intelligence.

Why is it a ludicrous notion? See, I'm not quite following your logic here. After all CS is practically the most popular game in the world and they're providing a free copy with HL2. How exactly are they going to go wrong with CS:S based on this known demand for the game? Sounds like smart business to me.

The rumours that it has no MP are as unfounded as most of the other conspiracy theories surrounding Valve and HL2. Stop pissing about and just strap on your tin foil helmets. Saying there's no MP simply because Valve haven't revealed it yet is like saying there are no other weapons, aliens or plot developments in HL2 because we haven't seen them :hmph:

I wouldn't say they're unfounded at all. I see no reason for Valve to hide the very fact that they had an HL2 specific MP. To admit to having one could only increase their sales in my opinion. And they've said absolutely nothing about it. Next, when they first introduced CS:S in a video Gabe even makes a reference to it as the multiplayer. Then in the interview with Cliffe he says, "Half-Life 2 will come with CS: Source. Right now, we do not plan to include any other multiplayer games with Half-Life 2." I know people have minced words about "game" versus "component", but it stills seems like a telling statement to me.

Now look, I fully realize I may very well be wrong. However, I don't understand your seeming absolute assurance that your right either. I think there's evidence pointing both ways. I happen to think there will be no HL2 specific MP, but we'll see in time.

 

[Janet Reno]

That DMC game was fairly boring, I don't see why someone would waste time remaking it again.

 

[ShadowFox]

That DMC game was fairly boring, I don't see why someone would waste time remaking it again.

Huh?

HLDM has nothing to do with DMC. DMC was a Quake homage.

 

[el Chi]

I fully acknowledge that I could be wrong as well, but it would surprise me. CS: Source isn't in keeping with HL2 and so, whilst I understand that it will be released with the game, it would just seem to jar with the atmosphere of the SP game.
I wasn't aware of that comment from Cliffe, which is an interesting one.
Personally (and suppose that at the moment, personal opinion and speculation is all it comes down to at the moment) it just seems peculiar not to ship with an HL2 specific MP. I'm not ruling out the possibility but I would just be surprised, a little let down as well. I couldn't care less for DM, to be honest and I think Valve can be a bit more creative than straight DM or giving people a spruced-up version of a game they already have. CS: Source has a lot of potential, but I can just see Valve doing better than that and not simply relying on the mod community to do the work for them. Valve don't seem that lazy to me.

 

[Gunner]

Ok, they've reassured everyone that there will be a multiplayer. Of course there will be. They already confirmed it will ship with CS:S. They've never openly claimed to have a seperate multiplayer from that.

Then in the interview with Cliffe he says, "Half-Life 2 will come with CS: Source. Right now, we do not plan to include any other multiplayer games with Half-Life 2." I know people have minced words about "game" versus "component", but it stills seems like a telling statement to me.

Straight from the horse's mouth:

A couple people on the hl2.net forums are reading too far into my statements...

I don't know what else to say, your logic defies reason: you only assume there will be no HL2 MP because there is CS:S. It's like Bush believing Saddam had WMDs because they couldn't find any evidence that he didn't have them.

 

[Neutrino]

I fully acknowledge that I could be wrong as well, but it would surprise me. CS: Source isn't in keeping with HL2 and so, whilst I understand that it will be released with the game, it would just seem to jar with the atmosphere of the SP game.
I wasn't aware of that comment from Cliffe, which is an interesting one.
Personally (and suppose that at the moment, personal opinion and speculation is all it comes down to at the moment) it just seems peculiar not to ship with an HL2 specific MP. I'm not ruling out the possibility but I would just be surprised, a little let down as well. I couldn't care less for DM, to be honest and I think Valve can be a bit more creative than straight DM or giving people a spruced-up version of a game they already have. CS: Source has a lot of potential, but I can just see Valve doing better than that and not simply relying on the mod community to do the work for them. Valve don't seem that lazy to me.

Well like I said, we'll all find out in time. It's not like I want there to be no MP or anything. Any extra game made by Valve would be quite welcome. But I'm just not really seeing it happen. But with all the profesional and ameteur mods coming out, I really can't say I'd be all that disappointed. It's going to be hard enough as it is to find the time to play all the new source ports, not to mention all the great third party mods that will come in time.

Straight from the horse's mouth:



I don't know what else to say, your logic defies reason: you only assume there will be no HL2 MP because there is CS:S. It's like Bush believing Saddam had WMDs because they couldn't find any evidence that he didn't have them.

I'm not sure you're even really reading anything I wrote. But about that statement; he might have been referring to the people who were making distinctions between a "game" and a "game component" rather than than people saying CS:S was the only multiplayer. Frankly, his statement is a bit too vague to draw any substantial conclusions from imo. As to the analogy about Bush, please read my previous post. I explained that I thought CS:S would provide plenty of interest in HL2 all by itself. Also I said how I didn't see how keeping an HL2 MP completely secret could help Valve in any way. By actually saying something about it, I could only see sales increasing even more. Even if it was a mystic statement, but something that actually confirmed it. So basically, I'm not seeing why you think my logic defies reason. Please feel free to explain though.

 

[Crusader]

I agree with most of what you said, but this:

Then in the interview with Cliffe he says, "Half-Life 2 will come with CS: Source. Right now, we do not plan to include any other multiplayer games with Half-Life 2." I know people have minced words about "game" versus "component", but it stills seems like a telling statement to me.

Should not be included as proof, because as soon as people started going "Oh noees, no HL2 multiplayer!"

Cliffe sent an email saying that "People at HL2.net are reading too much into my comments."

So I'm not saying that's proof there is one, I'm just saying that this part of your post tells us nothing.

 

[el Chi]

Well like I said, we'll all find out in time. It's not like I want there to be no MP or anything. Any extra game made by Valve would be quite welcome. But I'm just not really seeing it happen. But with all the profesional and ameteur mods coming out, I really can't say I'd be all that disappointed. It's going to be hard enough as it is to find the time to play all the new source ports, not to mention all the great third party mods that will come in time.

Hmmm. I see where you're coming from, but I'm going to hold out hope. I'd also like to say that please don't say "I told you so" like you say in your sig - you seem far too intelligent and reasonable for that (Yeah I figure it wasn't entirely serious)
Certainly more intelligent and reasonable than an argument that starts with "Like, dude... What if HL2 hasn' got any, like, multiplayer? Dude..."
I say dude a lot but I'd never start an argument with it...

 

[N0N1337H41]

Doom 3 has MP DM with 4 players apparently. IMO that pretty much counts as an FPS that doesn't have a multiplayer

The BEST MP i've played in years is for splinter cell. It has a MAX of four players, and it makes CS look weak. Now don't get me wrong, because I love CS. But just coming up with different enviroments to shoot people gets a bit old after a while, and that seems to be all companies are interested these days.

From what I've read, DOOM 3's MP will have many lighting/shadow effects that will really affect the gameplay.

To all the doubters: At first 4 player MP sounds VERY weak, but if it's done right (as in splinter cell) it can be simply amazing.

 

[lans]

The BEST MP i've played in years is for splinter cell. It has a MAX of four players, and it makes CS look weak. Now don't get me wrong, because I love CS. But just coming up with different enviroments to shoot people gets a bit old after a while, and that seems to be all companies are interested these days.

From what I've read, DOOM 3's MP will have many lighting/shadow effects that will really affect the gameplay.

To all the doubters: At first 4 player MP sounds VERY weak, but if it's done right (as in splinter cell) it can be simply amazing.

Splinter cell isn't a FPS.

/disqualified

 

[Neutrino]

Hmmm. I see where you're coming from, but I'm going to hold out hope. I'd also like to say that please don't say "I told you so" like you say in your sig - you seem far too intelligent and reasonable for that (Yeah I figure it wasn't entirely serious)
Certainly more intelligent and reasonable than an argument that starts with "Like, dude... What if HL2 hasn' got any, like, multiplayer? Dude..."
I say dude a lot but I'd never start an argument with it...

Heh, I wouldn't. It just seemed like a fitting sig for the current discussions. Perhaps I should modify it to be clearer though.

 

[el Chi]

Splinter cell isn't a FPS.

/disqualified

Which disqualifies his arguments how?
His point was simply that it has inventive MP and a limited number of players that works very well.

 

[EVIL]

ok ill be seriouse now. Doom3 does indeed have doom3 flavoered old-school 4 player tight deatmatch. hell they threw in a classic "THE EDGE".


does hl2 have hl2 themed deatmatch/ctf/etc. with any classics? NO.

we get a 5 year old mod

I want proof.. REAL water proof, proof that HL² won't feature a HL² themed MP..

that cliff interview was nothing.. some slacky comment about no other planned multiplayer GAMES on release just doesnt gives enough proof. I need one of the valve boys, gabe or eric say in detail that Half life 2 wont feature a HL² themed Multiplayer.

 

[Crusader]

Even the iD team don't expect anything too great from it's multiplayer component, so I wouldn't defend something that even they are not willing to defend.

They are trying to make the best single-player experience iD have ever created, and if we are lucky that is what we'll get.

Just got to find a way to make that 20 hours of gameplay last the months til HL2 is released

 

[Kangy]

A CS remake is still CS, and I don't want CS.

I want HL2DM or TF:S!

 

[Crusader]

Unfortunately 80% of online gamers disagree with us HL2 fans, and they will be bouncing off the walls to buy HL2 just to get CS:Source.

Valve are making sure they keep the market cornered. It's good in the long run because it means HL2 will be the number one modding engine, and we will get to play a lot of inventive and great looking mods

 

[SubKamran]

edit: n/m, just read it.

 

[ShadowFox]

A CS remake is still CS, and I don't want CS.

I want HL2DM or TF:S!

TF:S is confirmed.

And one more thing about Doom 3. The multiplayer with have five maps, the four player limit and four game types. These modes are DM, TDM, 1vs1 and last man standing.

 

[Neutrino]

Wtf people, haven't you guys read the "Valve is playing HL2 on Steam" yet? There IS vanilla MP! Jeez. We just don't know what kind.

Yes, and then's been shown to be most likely a fake for multiple reasons. Plus they were reported to be playing on a coast map, which was a single player map in the videos. So it doesn't really mean anything. Plus, if they were testing a multiplayer component of HL2 don't you think they would use a multiplayer map they've made? Because by this late date they'd have to have some made if they are creating an HL2 MP.

Edit: Dang you and your editing.


But keep the arguments coming. I'm bored.

 

[SubKamran]

Yes, and then's been shown to be most likely a fake for multiple reasons. Plus they were reported to be playing on a coast map, which was a single player map in the videos. So it doesn't really mean anything. Plus, if they were testing a multiplayer component of HL2 don't you think they might just use a multiplayer map they've made? Because by this late date they'd have to have some made if they are creating an HL2 MP.

But keep the arguments coming. I'm bored.

I edited my post I say it does have MP, it's almost required for games nowadays, plus Valve aren't idiots, they know not everyone will play CS:S, DoD:S, and TFC:S or whatever.

 

[riTuaL]

I think Doug Lombardi was quoted saying that no HL2 MP will be included with HL2 at release but that doesn't mean that there is still not a MP in development that they will include in a later update.

 

[Crusader]

What arguments? There is no argument to be had, there is no proof for either side of the equation ^^

 

[ShadowFox]

I think Doug Lombardi was quoted saying that no HL2 MP will be included with HL2 at release but that doesn't mean that there is still not a MP in development that they will include in a later update.

Find the quote, and I'll believe it.

 

[SubKamran]

Find the quote, and I'll believe it.

Yah for real, no one's said that.