Email from Gabe. Re: Pay 2 Play

[Pi Mu Rho]

Dagobert: can you read?

"The second is our traditional single-player plus multiplayer SKU that runs MODs"

It comes with multiplayer.

 

[Feath]

Originally posted by anarchy
I think its unreasonable to chage for it. And we both know CS was a huge success and THEN valve bought it...$$$
Whats to stop them from doing it to all the other good mods, that is my concern.

You do realise that CS was still a free download as well? If that happens to any other mods, they'd still be free to download.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

I think its unreasonable to chage for it. And we both know CS was a huge success and THEN valve bought it...$$$
Whats to stop them from doing it to all the other good mods, that is my concern.

That's up to the mod teams. They've put all their time and effort into mods for free. Shouldn't they be able to get something back from it if given the opportunity?

Valve were good enough to make their games modifiable and extendable. Why shouldn't Valve get a return for that?

You don't have a god-given right to play mods for free. It's only because of valve and the mod teams that you get the opportunity. Be thankful. Rejoice in the ability. Get naked. Hug trees.

 

[anarchy]

We're pretty sure that the $9.95 guys are going to get the better value, as we've been pretty good over the years at generating a lot of content

Didnt it take them 5 years to release hl2? So 60 months at 10 bucks a month...well I dont see how thats the "better value"

 

[Feath]

Originally posted by anarchy
We're pretty sure that the $9.95 guys are going to get the better value, as we've been pretty good over the years at generating a lot of content

Didnt it take them 5 years to release hl2? So 60 months at 10 bucks a month...well I dont see how thats the "better value"

He's talking about expansion packs and Team Fortress 2. We have no idea how close Team Fortress 2 is close to completion.

 

[anarchy]

Originally posted by Feath
He's talking about expansion packs and Team Fortress 2. We have no idea how close Team Fortress 2 is close to completion.

See thats my point...we dont know. For 10 bucks a month I better get a new game every month, or they need to make sure my 10 bucks was damn well worth it.

 

[Feath]

I give up.

You seem to have a problem with paying for things.

And anyway, don't get the friggin subscription, buy the game in the store. Then you won't have anything to complain about.

 

[Spyre]

I don't think VALVe is trying to screw us and make money (read: mods are still free if you buy the right retail version.) VALVe knows their strength lies with the community... they know and appreciate our loyal support of their company for 5 years. Why else would they spend time on these forums and answering e-mails? They really do care about us as gamers and they rely on us.

I *DO* think that they are going to inadvertently confuse us with too many versions and payment plans. Yes there IS such a thing as TOO MANY CHOICES!

If I were to tell my friends to buy Half-Life 2 it won't be as easy as telling them to buy DOOM3. They aren't hardcore gamers, and won't have the slightest clue about what version offers what.

The BIGGEST question I have right now is... Why would anyone offer the same product without multiplayer in a different box? I don't see any advantage to this being offered in a retail store. Would it be cheaper to buy the copy without MP than the one with MP? How much more would you pay to play online? $10? $30? I see *NO* point to intentionally cripple a great complete product like that. Do they now see MP and single-play as two separate products? If so, how much for just the MP portion?

I think, to avoid confusion, there should be only two versions sold. Steam-HL2, and Retail-HL2. The Steam version can resort to a monthly payment, since it relies heavily on bandwidth usage and the costs thereof.

For now I see this:

3 different retail boxes (Alyx, Gman, Gordon)
2 different retail versions
2 different steam subscriptions
1 special edition DVD

That's not to mention the Game of the Year Edition which will most certainly be coming

Gabe... I love ya, but you guys are gonna confuse the hell outta most people. We few, we happy few, we band of brothers, we hardcore gamers will not be lost when HL2 fills the shelves with 10,000 different versions of the game... but I do worry about the average gamer who can't figure out which patch to upgrade Counter-Strike from beta!

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Every month? Do you usually pay $10 for your games?

It'll take you 4 months to pay off what HL2 would have cost you.

 

[Volcane]

I have sent an email to the store I have preordered HL2 from to make sure that I will be getting the traditional SP/MP package.

 

[Gunner]

^^ Same here, but I doubt they knew they were going to receive three different versions of the same game.

 

[anarchy]

Originally posted by Feath
I give up.

You seem to have a problem with paying for things.

Pfft...I want to walk into my local compusa, put 50 bucks on the counter, and walk out with half-life2 that includes MP, Free mods like CS2, and Single player. I dont want to be duked into paying 10 bucks a month on the hopes that they will eventually release cs2 or tf2 for my 10 bucks.

 

[Gunner]

By the way CONGRATULATIONS TO KAMAKIRI his email made front page on http://www.planethalflife.com/!!

 

[Logic]

Ah, sweet controversy :cheese:

Whether the new pricing plans are successful or not, there's going to be a lot of talk about it.

 

[Feath]

Originally posted by anarchy
Pfft...I want to walk into my local compusa, put 50 bucks on the counter, and walk out with half-life2 that includes MP, Free mods like CS2, and Single player. I dont want to be duked into paying 10 bucks a month on the hopes that they will eventually release cs2 or tf2 for my 10 bucks.

You EITHER:

Walk into the store, buy the game.

or

Pay the subscription cost to get all of Valves game for $10 a month.

You don't do both.

Team Fortress 2 is a different game. Counterstrike 2 could be a mod or a different game.

If CS2 is a free mod, you'd be able to play it if you do the first one.

 

[Gunner]

Forget it Feath... it's like trying to explain Newton's theory of gravity to a mentally disabled child. He won't get it.

 

[Feath]

Originally posted by )[eVo]( Para
Forget it Feath... it's like trying to explain Newton's theory of gravity to a mentally disabled child. He won't get it.

F = (GMm)/(d^2)

Yeah, I agree. I'm just getting irritated because people are making stuff up and then getting angry for it.

It's very Harry Enfield-esque, "OI, VALVE, NO!"

 

[Sigoo]

Originally posted by Sigoo
It mentions sierra in the email. I thought vindi(i forgot how to spell it) was publishing it.

Of course i always forget sierra is owned by vindi(still cant spell it).

 

[MrD]

Originally posted by Feath
He's talking about expansion packs and Team Fortress 2. We have no idea how close Team Fortress 2 is close to completion.

How much have you (or even the most devoted fan) spent buying Valve stuff over the last 5 years? I bet its nowhere near $600.

The subscription idea makes no sense. I, like most people, have a limited income per month. Once you take away income tax, council tax, pension, life insurance, house insurance, car insurance, health, mobile-phone subscription, house-phone subscription, television service, broadband subscription, basic living supplies (food & toiletries), petrol, car servicing, social (drink, cinema etc.), savings ... there is not much left. And I don't even have kids yet.

I would guess 90% of the population are either the same or worse off than me.

The "pay extra for multiplayer" idea is also clearly flawed. I originally got into multiplayer from a "lets give it a try" second install of Duke Nukem on another machine. It then died again for a while until a chance encounter with a mate whereby we both had half-life (and a computer) in the same place at the same time.

I have sent extra business to both 3dRealms and Valve because of this.

Now, I doubt I will ever buy the "multiplayer" edition because I am primarilly a single-player bread. This pricing scheme makes it unlikely that I will never get round to trying out the multiplayer in HL2 and subsequently Valve will potentially lose the same set of sales I have generated them in the past.

Incendently this is also why I'm fundamentally against some forms of copy protection. The whole "put the CD in during play" thing is no good when you travel around with a laptop. You simply cannot carry all your favourite games around. If it wasn't for the fact that I have to install no-cd cracks all the time then the half-life multiplayer encounter I mentioned above would never have happened (I didn't have my CD with me).

I wonder how often companies implement these schemes without realising how much they inconvenience their own customers, and hence drive down sales. Lets face it, the type of people that steal software are going to do it regardless.

Sorry I went off on a rant there.

 

[MoJo|Night]

Feath you have done a damn good job banging your head against the wall of anarchy but I think it's time you left the bewildered one to his fate, i think he's just doing it to get attention.

Newton's 4th law: No matter how much you shake it, the last bit always goes down your trouse leg.

 

[Dagobert]

Dagobert: can you read?

"The second is our traditional single-player plus multiplayer SKU that runs MODs"

It comes with multiplayer.

That's one interpretation of the words, the other is that there is a SKU that contains the single player game, plus the ability to download mods, some of which are multiplayer.

Why doesn't somone email Gabe and ask him if the shop-bought CD version of HL2 actually contains a multiplayer game on the CD?

 

[MoJo|Night]

If you do not like the subscription idea then just don;t do it, stick to more traditional choices. If subscription was the ONLY option I could see why people are getting angry but it's not. Pay as normal and move on.

 

[MoJo|Night]

"Why doesn't somone email Gabe and ask him if the shop-bought CD version of HL2 actually contains a multiplayer game on the CD?"

I believe that Gabe has already stated that mp will be on the disk in the normal pachage however for the sake of argument lets play along. So hl2 multiplayer is a mod that you have to download and it's not on the cd, so what? you'll have to connect to the web to play it anyway so what's it matter?

Are some of you deliberately posting complaints just to get replies? Valve are offering more options and still leaving the traditional ones in place, I can't see any grounds for complaint anywhere.

 

[Inflatablewoman]

Originally posted by anarchy
We're pretty sure that the $9.95 guys are going to get the better value, as we've been pretty good over the years at generating a lot of content

Didnt it take them 5 years to release hl2? So 60 months at 10 bucks a month...well I dont see how thats the "better value"

Quoted for truth!!! I will be getting the box version, and I doubt I will be buying the single player add-on mods. I will be buying mulitplayer mods, but I just dont like the idea of paying $10 a month, esp when I go through phases of not playing (busy, new game released, computer exploded).

 

[droper]

Well under the currect plan it seem valve does not care about its new customers. If i had bought a copy of hl1 with only single player ability I may have never played all the mods or enjoyed the purchase to the extent I did. Also i think the mod community would not be what it is today considering many would have done the same. No other game company I know of would try and pull this because no sinsible customer would buy single-player only alternative without a considerable price difference and if they did they would certainly regret it.

This seems to me to be a scheme to go in the direction of privatizing mods which is fine,but keep in mind most gamers give mods a chance because they are free. CS for instance would not be as much of a success today if it had been released as a expansion. I think there will definitly be a larger public mod community then private because they are free and they are as i have been finding lately better then many private ones.

final note: they are #$%@ing with a good thing.

 

[Inflatablewoman]

Originally posted by Dagobert
That's one interpretation of the words

Gabe
traditional single-player plus multiplayer SKU that runs MODs

Traditional is the key word. HL2 will come with the single player and HL2 multiplayer deathmatch, minimum. It will also allow you to download and install mods as the current HL allows.

 

[rootbin]

wow. its real. that's gay. i really don't like what he was saying in the e-mail :\

oh well, i'll have the special edition for sure anyways.

edit: yes, its real and confirmed by gabe.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Dagobert:

That's one interpretation of the words, the other is that there is a SKU that contains the single player game, plus the ability to download mods, some of which are multiplayer.

Not really, because an SKU is a physical box that you buy. If you interpret it the way you said, then there would be a separate multiplayer SKU.

 

[Logic]

I think we should keep in mind that there may be quite a large audience for a single player only package - obviously none of us will come under that category, since none of that audience would be hanging around internet forums like these.

I'm sure valve wouldn't be making these sorts of marketing decisions without researching beforehand. Even if some of the options don't appeal to us, they may still appeal to a different audience. Besides, there are options to suit us as well.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Logic is right - the average Lowest Common Denominator (the type least likely to be interested in MP) will buy the SP-only package because it'll be cheaper. No confusion there.

 

[Inflatablewoman]

Originally posted by droper
final note: they are #$%@ing with a good thing.

My gf never plays online, so why should she pay for the online version?

It makes sense for her to get the cheaper version, it is also to Valves credit that they think about such customers, rather than charging an inflated rate to all customers.

 

[kelisis]

Wow, I just read through the whole thread. Cool. Gabe Newell even replyed! Kamakiri I belivied you in the first place. Your famous now! Thanks, for the info.

 

[dawdler]

Originally posted by Inflatablewoman
My gf never plays online, so why should she pay for the online version?

Someone may have noted this in the earlier posts (I dont bother reading through it all), but I distinctly remember they said the engine was designed from a MP point of view... That this was the core of it. How can one limit it to SP? Removing certain maps? MP is still there. Removing parts of the engine? Seems very troublesome just to release two different versions... But maybe that's just me.

 

[MoJo|Night]

Remove the menu options and delete the netcode libraries. That would give it a decent go I would have thought.

 

[Kamakiri]

Originally posted by Logic
I think we should keep in mind that there may be quite a large audience for a single player only package - obviously none of us will come under that category, since none of that audience would be hanging around internet forums like these.

I'm sure valve wouldn't be making these sorts of marketing decisions without researching beforehand. Even if some of the options don't appeal to us, they may still appeal to a different audience. Besides, there are options to suit us as well.

Now that is one of the best points I've read in this thread. IMO reading all the posts here I was agreeing with alot of people with the SP only SKU being a flop. But Valve wouldn't be doing one if there was no market there. I think we should leave the marketing to the experts. Because we here are all major geeks who love playing online games. That's pretty much fact. (Not in a bad way)

I really have no idea if the $10 a month subscription will be a success or not. BUT good news is if we get the SKU with SP/MP and we just buy the mod's seperate this is going to be 100% the best way for everyone unless Valve release heaps and heaps of really cool stuff for HL2 and that stuff is relative expensive...I just can't imagine these mod's being expensive though.

Few weeks ago I noticed some people in Natural Selection had little icons next to there names in the score menu. I asked them what it was. They said we gave donation to the NS dev team. I really thought 'yeah NS deserve that because it's a very good mod'. So I think paying for a few mods to help these guys out and we get hours of entertainment well and truly worth it.

 

[theGreenBunny]

Originally posted by MoJo|Night
Remove the menu options and delete the netcode libraries. That would give it a decent go I would have thought.

How about not allowing the multiplayer aspect of steam to be accessed by people who have a SP-only-cdkey? It'd work in combination with removing all that stuff, otherwise people could just grab the missing libraries etc from friends and hop online. They'd have a hard time doing that without a multiplayer-enabled cdkey.

 

[Inflatablewoman]

Originally posted by Kamakiri
Now that is one of the best points I've read in this thread. IMO reading all the posts here I was agreeing with alot of people with the SP only SKU being a flop.

Unreal2 was SP only.

 

[Kamakiri]

Oh can a mod fix up the title for this thread. It's Play to Play now it should be Pay to Play. I look like a stupid person. hahahah.

 

[Feath]

It's important to remember that most mods will be free. It's up to the mod makers whether they charge or not for the mods.

The $10 a month will only apply to Valve products, not mods. It's something completely different. It's kinda like renting all of Valve's games for a month. Anything you get with the subscription will be orginary stuff that you would've expected to buy in the shops anyway. Like Expansion Pack or other games.

You could also use the $10 a month as a kind of demo. Like, you could pay $10 and try out a lot of Valve games then decide which one you are going to buy.

Because it's not Valve who charge you for Third Party Mods, you'd probably not automatically get them free with the subscription. This is only if the mod teams charge for the mods, mind you.

Overall, you aren't going to get any extra costs if you buy it in the shop.

 

[A2597]

WTF...
an SP version in stores? WHY?!?

I can see a reguler and collectors, but a SP ONLY?!?

ok, I'm cool, SO LONG AS IT IS CLEARLY MARKED

"Single Player only, no moddability whatsoever. Purchase if your a stupidhead"

I mean, c'mon!