End game discussion *spoilers of course*

Eli was the one that colaborated first with the Xen aliens. Because that is what one of the aliens in the very beginning tells you if you interact with him. Or am I stating the obvious.

I guess we'll have to wait and see what is to come.
 
Lanthanide: You don't have to buy any books to get the info about Breen's position and what has happened to Earth. All you need to do is to literally LOOK AROUND in the game.

It seems like that no one else in the game seems to realize that Gordon literally hasn't been around for a while and Gordon doesn't say anything about G-Man to anyone (maybe he's suppressed in some way by The Man With The Briefcase to prevent this, I don't know) and since the whole thing is apparently global it's more than likely from others point of view that Gordon already knows all they know and no one bothers to ask. For spoilers, I suggest you check this thread out: http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=52203 (shade70's replies)

Oh yeah. The very first thing a vortigaunt says to Gordon is "We serve the same mystery." Replaying this game is paying off :)
 
Now that was one ****ed up ending. I did like it, but at the same time I am VERY pissed off we got NO answers, nothing at all. We found out nothing about the Gman, about Gordon, or about anything really.

Sure, we found out Breen was the admin from black masa. Sure, we found out he is working with the aliens (or at least one of them) with something about a host body, and is also trying trying to turn the human into combine.

But when it all comes down to it. We know nothing more about half life then we did before the game was out. Real disapointed in it, unless hl3 is coming out VERY soon, then well.. beh, me angry.
 
I think the game is simply stunning, the ending, well it leaves a lot of questions, but hey I am sure they will become clearer in HL3... or will they ;)

Money very well spent !
 
Oh and did anyone else feel GODlike when they had the Zero point gravity gun ? So cool, although the last chapter was so damn easy :p
 
Lanthanide said:
Even more reason for the other characters to sit down and tell him what's going on. "Gordon, you've been gone so long! Why don't we fill you in on what's been going on?"

The fact that the other characters don't do this IS a failing of the storyline and the realism of the other characters - no one IRL would really be that stupid - here is our saviour, hey, lets not tell him anything about what's going on and let him bumble through things himself! We don't need to give him any help at all, he'll work it out in the end!

I mean, they really should have at least given Gordon a device like Alyx's that lets her open combine doors - or explained why they couldn't give him one "we stole it from a combine" or something.

Another problem is the Ant Lions. Gordon has been away. The only place we ever encounter ant lions is on the coast. It would be reasonable for the other characters to assume Gordon has never met ant lions before, and so they could explain where they came from/what they do etc, but no. Even the vortigaunt that gives you the pheripods doesn't tell you anything, I mean they could have said "the ant lions have long been a foe to us on Xen", but no, NOTHING.

So many missed opportunities to give us INFORMATION about things. Everyone keeps saying "it's all in the details, just pay attention", but the thing is - the information is simply NOT there, unless it's hidden very well, which it shouldn't be.

I'm not asking for everything to be explained, but a few small tidbits would be nice, but we don't even get that.



that sounds a little too extreme.

it's not like they had time to put the kettle on, open the biscuit tin and generally have a good natter about things. everything happened so fast. i mean, sure they could've told him all that stuff, but it's not a practical story or game element. i can imagine the physics on the biscuits being mind blowing, it's a whole game in itself...but it's always boring to sit through exposition.

and it's partly the reason i like to compare Half-Life to the original Die Hard film. i hope you've seen it? McClane turns up to his wife's Christmas party at the Nakatomi Plaza. everything's going smoothly, then all of a sudden hell breaks loose. McClane is caught in the middle of something with nothing but his trousers and vest. no-one sits him down and tells him "well John me boy, some unpleasant Euro-trash types have decided they want to shoot the place up a bit, and they're after what's in the vaults of this very building etc etc...". that's really....really...boring. instead, McClane discovers this through listening to conversations, observation and first hand experience. it's exactly the same formula in Half-Life, and rightly so, the same in Half-Life 2. it's more fun that way.

you might think the game is too light on story explanation, but you have to remember, if Valve haven't told you something, it means they're telling you something: "work it out". there's enough evidence through NPC speech, main character speech, clipped conversations, newspaper cuttings etc, for you to draw some sort of conclusion about what's going on and what's happened.

maybe they'll explain everything in HL3. personally i don't think they'll break the habit of a lifetime to spill the beans. also, leaving out large chunks of story stimulates the community to fill in the gaps (like we are) and this in turn spawns mods. the golden nugget of retail games. once you get mods rolling in, your game is set for life.

so after all this waffling on have i got a point? yes: don't stress over it so much, you're the one who's meant to do the speculation/theorizing etc, valve haven't failed in their storytelling job. it's a story device, so why not tell us what you think happened?
 
Regarding a post made eariler (to lazy to quote)

The ending was the same as hl1, yes. But we where not angry with hl1, as it was the first game, there were not real questions that people wanted answers for, this time, however, we have waited 6 years to get some answers, and what do we get? A good game, good storyline, but no ending to back the greatness up. I dont want to wait anouther god-knows how long to play hl3 and POSSABLY get some answers.
 
The ending was fantastic, really opens up alot of other possiblilites.

The thign that breen was talking to, was clearly an actual combine, unlike what we have seen so far. (The combine soldiers and stuff are modified humans afterall, as seen in Nova Prospekt)

When Breen was talking about the host body, i think he was referring to the fact that the combine creature just told him that if he wants to survive in the enviroment that the portal takes him to, he msut use a host body.

He wasnt happy about this, but if thats what it takes!

However at the end i am not to sure Breen actually dies, sure you destroy the portal but all you see is him drift further down the reactor, and then the top explodes (not the whole citadel i might add).

Also i think your actual mission from the gman was to destroy the dark fusion reactor because if you remember Alyx says that this powers there tunneling entanglement system, and then if you remember further back when you first met mossman, she mentioned that the combine can tunnel through from there universe.

So clearly Gman simply wanted you to cut the combine off from earth.
 
Dedalus said:
that sounds a little too extreme.
I don't think so at all. I never suggested they just sit you down and explain everything. It doesn't take very much at all to explain any specific thing, or at least give some background for it. Like my example for the explanation of the Ant Lions - it doesn't tell you everything, but it tells you they're from Xen and that the Vortigaunts have known about them for a long time, and this is how they can get the pherapods. Right now, we have 1) no clue where they come from or why they are on Earth, 2) how the vortigaunt learnt how to get the pheripods from the guard, or what they are even used for.

you might think the game is too light on story explanation,
Because it is
but you have to remember, if Valve haven't told you something, it means they're telling you something: "work it out". there's enough evidence through NPC speech, main character speech, clipped conversations, newspaper cuttings etc, for you to draw some sort of conclusion about what's going on and what's happened
Yes, but you don't have any details about any of it.

So there was a portal storm. Then the combine attacked. Then Breen surrenders the Earth and takes control and is collaborating with the combine. He says it is for the future of the human race, but we don't know what his plans are or anything at all. It's mentioned somewhere that all of Earth's resources are being depleted (factories churning out bad air, sucking all the water up) but this is never explained at all - not even any conjecture by any of the characters as to what this could mean - it seems no one actually gives a crap why the combine are doing what theyr'e doing, they just want to stop them.

also, leaving out large chunks of story stimulates the community to fill in the gaps (like we are) and this in turn spawns mods. the golden nugget of retail games. once you get mods rolling in, your game is set for life.
If the reason is purely and simply marketing, that's even more reason to be upset. Valve sold-out on a storyline in order to make more money. Disapointing.

so after all this waffling on have i got a point? yes: don't stress over it so much, you're the one who's meant to do the speculation/theorizing etc, valve haven't failed in their storytelling job. it's a story device, so why not tell us what you think happened?
I can't tell you what I think happened because there aren't enough details to even ground speculation on.
 
Actually if you used your brain you would udnerstand the story, its shown rather than told.

In fact you would also understand why the antlions are there if you had a look around and listened some more..in fact you would even know what breens plans are..
 
Then why stop being such a big "I'm smarter and more observant than you are" wanker and just tell me and everyone else stuck in this boat these big revelations?
 
One of my biggest problems with the ending was that I was expecting it to be a big more er...'bigger' heh like in HL1 you had the huge alien to fight...

...in this you just blow up some machine. Maybe they should of shown what actually happened after you blew it up?

The confusion surrounding this all is probably intended. I SERIOUSLY doubt valve would do such an ending without a purpose.

+we have the add ons to look forward too :D

And also...HL3 won't take 5/6 years to develop as they won't have to develop an entire new engine
 
Lanthanide, if you didn't pick up on any story tips/elements, then it's no-ones fault but your own. simple as that.
 
The end was great fun.... but a little too easy and I wanted more of a chat with the G_Man.... I love that character... :)
 
Yeah, I expect HL3 with maybe some slightly improved graphics, or maybe lighting and that's it.

Didn't you guys see the "Earth Surrenders" newspapers, or the "7 Hour War is Over" ones? The story is all around you, just take a look. From start to end, it's showing how humanity has been forced into the arms of the Combine, rather than physicallly herded.

Remember in Raveholm, there were shells all over the place? The headcrabs haven't somehow moved from Xen to Earh by themselves...the Combine put them there. People don't want to move into the new City [#] areas? Shell them and make their town a wasteland.

Heck, even at the start, where you get teleported to those random locations, you see the Icythosaur coming at you...yet there are none in the canals. The Combine are obviously making everywhere they don't want you to live a shithole, so everyone crowds in.

The Vortigaunts...they no longer have their collars, and call you "The Freeman". They seem to believe you've freed them, and everyone. Breen refers to you as "The One Free Man", and a "Messiah" for "romantically minded individuals".

See? Questions answered.
 
I honestly was expecting an ending like this, but the lack of a true boss was somewhat disappointing (although I did beat the game with a staggering 5 hp). The thing I don't understand...if the Gman can literally control the fabric of spacetime (teleport out of nowhere, freeze time) then why does he need little old me? Seems like he could do it himself without too much effort.

I am somewhat confused about what Breen was actually doing. Did he REALLY believe all that BS he was spewing or was that just to subdue the populace? What was he getting out of the deal? What's up with the combine soldiers? =(

I just laughed, realizing I spent more time being transported around in those body containers than listening to the ending. =/
 
Not in nearly as much detail as I, and many others, would like, Kangy.

That is what we are complaining about. The detail.
 
Anyone happen to know the weapon name of the "last" gun? I want a chance to mess with it earlier in the game.
 
VALVe is brilliant. I take back what I said before. It's so clear to me now.
Valve intentionally leaves the ending up in the air, and leaves clues in the game. Now, how many of you rushed through the game just to get to the ending? I did. Now I am playing it on hard mode to see the details and challenge myself. Valve is forcing us to go through the game again!
Also. The boss at the end... was not a real boss. IT WAS A FIGHT AGAINST TIME! So brilliant. HL2 is a fight against time. Which is also a reason why I think HL3 will reveal something to us about time... perhaps when we lost the week in the teleport, the time afterwards was false? I wonder if we will wake up like in the Matrix and be plugged into a machine.
 
I am planning on replaying through it on hard here soon and looking and talking to more people. I really wish to understand this all better.
 
OMG i just finished the game, and i must say, that i thought that was a really cool ending. i was kind of dissapointed by the lack of information provided, but its ok because now valve has to make a hl3 :D and its fun to think about then ending anyway
 
I loved the ending, lets you think about everything, what happens to who, what is going on, and whether the whole thing actually happened
 
I think that HL2 was a "test" thats why gman said something like "WE were impressed" and why he froze everything, and why theres a tripyy asss intro to the game.

so he wanted to see if you were badass enough to take on what he REALLY needs you for, HL3.

my theory: HL2 = test (maybe a VR type of thing?)
 
Valve just does that, they leave you hanging, Intill the VERYend
It was a good ending, Life is like a train, it keeps on going intill the end, which may be death. You are working for Gman, a right man, in the wrong place to solve all problems, listen to the game. There is no time to tell all of what happened, you were always ambushed, there was no time.
 
VodkA-HLC- said:
Worst ending since matrix 3
Oooh a bit harsh, seeing as that was so bad it nearly gave me an anneurism. The Wachowski brothers are offensively bad writers.

But yes, disappointing and slightly hollow. I wasn't exactly expecting a happy ending - picnics in the square followed by a game of frisbee with Lamar - but I was hoping for so much more out of the G-Man. Not the full whack but something a bit more tantalising. I was under the impression that we'd learn a lot more about the G-Man in this game, but we learn bugger all. Except for the fact that he's more evil than we maybe thought before.
I just hope that in HL3, they don't rush in all this information to try and explain things in one whole heap. I also hope that it's actually related, plot-wise; it doesn't seem to make sense that Valve would take a Final Fantasy "they're-all-sequels-but-the-stories-aren't-the-same" direction. I also hope that it doesn't take them another six years - I doubt it will, somehow.

Finally, I do so hope Alyx is ok...
 
Dedalus said:
i think the ending is more functional than anything. it's sort of preparing you for HL3 i reckon. and if you read the Prima Guide's description of the G-Man, it'll clue you in a little as to why the ending is plausible.

If it's too much of a problem can we get a quote of that?

Oh yeah, HL2's ending was awesome. Bring on HL3.
 
marshmallow said:
I am somewhat confused about what Breen was actually doing. Did he REALLY believe all that BS he was spewing or was that just to subdue the populace? What was he getting out of the deal? What's up with the combine soldiers? =(
You know who Breen reminded me of? The presidential candidates, spewing all their BS all over the TV and the radio. Making false promises and exaggerated claims about everything. You have to admit that they did succeed in making him a very charismatic character.
 
Alright, here's my take on it:

1) I doubt Alyx dies. She's as much a part of the HL franchise now as Gordon and the G-Man - plus Gabe Newell has also said he really wants to do some side episodes featuring Alyx and Dog. Whether or not these side episodes take place after the explosion, I think she's too important a character at this point to get knocked off so needlessly. I'd bet Dog jumps in and saves her, he was already trying to get into the Citadel to get to her anyways.

2) I very highly doubt that one explosion way up at the top could knock down the mile high, solid steel Citadel. Maybe start a chain reaction that would finish it off eventually, but to take that huge thing down in one blow would take a MIGHTY amount of firepower. Plus, notice how the explosion of the portal doesn't look like a regular explosion, it's the same solid brownish orange solid color of the portal itself (notice when you're up at the very top, the two gunships come through the portal to help out). Perhaps Alyx gets teleported away by that? Something to speculate on.

3) The ending was a pretty abrupt kick in the nuts, but I won't mind it much if they really do release hl3 within a reasonable time period. If it takes > 1.5 years, that would probably be a bitch, but I don't see why it would. The engine is already done, a whole shitload of content (textues and sounds) are already done, I just don't see a team of 80 guys having that much difficulty churning out voices and maps, with the occasional model here and there.

4) The story did not bother me at all. You were meant to see the whole game from Gordon's perspective at all times, and discover the story yourself. It's not like they exactly had lots of time to discuss things. Barney had to get you to Dr. Kleiner's asap, where you were just stopping by on your way to be teleported to Eli's. You got interrupted and separated from everyone else shortly after, and the rest of the game was spent raiding Nova Prospekt and finally helping to raise hell with the uprising (and get in the Citadel of course). I found adequate bits of story here and there. If you notice in one of the labs (I think Eli's), there's a great big tackboard with all sorts of headlines, EARTH SURRENDERS, Portal Storm Continues, 7 Hour War, etc. It's not too difficult to piece it together, if you're observant. And on that note...

5) My theory, on the big perspective is this: Dr. Breen was cooperating with the Combine in HL1, and arranged the Resonance Cascade. Why? Remember, in Blue Shift, Dr. Rosenberg explains to Barney "teleportation isn't as simple as going from point A to point B. We discovered a border world that we must slingshot around..." All the talk in HL2 about Xen, looping through Xen, etc. I beleive that the Combine couldn't reach Earth directly, so they needed a big dimensional breach between Earth and the Border World (xen) in order to do so. There had been many human trips into Xen prior to the events of HL1, perhaps they came in contact with Breen somehow during, or as a result of, those trips.
 
Can someone copy the G-Man stuff from the Prima guide?
 
Doppelgofer said:
i loved the ending...it messes with your mind
I was completely spent, a game hasn't made me care so much for an ending before. It grabbed me by the balls and shook me around until I thought I was female. It was a satisfactory ending, suprising, interesting, open for thought. Compared to Doom 3's god-awful ending. I want more though.
 
Lanthanide said:
The fact that the other characters don't do this IS a failing of the storyline and the realism of the other characters - no one IRL would really be that stupid - here is our saviour, hey, lets not tell him anything about what's going on and let him bumble through things himself! We don't need to give him any help at all, he'll work it out in the end!
It's like they don't realise you've been held in stasis by a shady little-known inter-dimensional figure for the past 15 years! Anything the player doesn't understand is because the player didn't pick up the hints from around him, as Gordon would.

1) I doubt Alyx dies. She's as much a part of the HL franchise now as Gordon and the G-Man - plus Gabe Newell has also said he really wants to do some side episodes featuring Alyx and Dog. Whether or not these side episodes take place after the explosion, I think she's too important a character at this point to get knocked off so needlessly. I'd bet Dog jumps in and saves her, he was already trying to get into the Citadel to get to her anyways.
They would be backstory. :)
 
so the whole we were gone for a week in the teleporter might explain a few things, i don't think Gordon aged at all in the time period between HL1 and HL2 remember what Vance said, "you havn't changed one iota" (spelling?) so maybe you have to go to xen and fight off the combine? but what world was that through that big teleport in the end, almost looks like a whole bunch of big towers like the citadel.
 
Personally as Much as I like the Game I think the ending and lack of real plot thats is supossed to be this big secret is a cop out. It's much easier to make a game with all this neet stuff and cool new inovative features, and then just have some ambigious at best ending. It does'nt make you think it makes you stupid! Endings like that spur conversations about what if this what if that, making it seem like a big mystery when there isn't one. Like Valve has this big secret that there gona unleash on the world, but I doubt it.

As a game it was probably one of the best I ever played, I'd just like a bit more substance next time.
 
Lep said:
Anyone happen to know the weapon name of the "last" gun? I want a chance to mess with it earlier in the game.
I don't know, but I know how to find out. Turn on "weapon_proficiency" (I think...) and it will show the names of the weapons you use and your proficiency with them. In HL2 they all seem to be "perfect." Maybe they were toying with the thought of making Gordon have to use a weapon for a certain amount of time or go through some sort of training with it before he knows how to handle it well... either that or it was a built-in feature to help RPG mods.
 
Actually I think it was to help out the AI rebels and such that fight with you. Most of them are really bad shots.
 
sry guys, but this was the best ending a pc game ever saw.
valve took the liberty to give us only a feeling of whats going on behind all this fighting without letting the characters say a single word.

tbh:
the only character that could explain everything is the gman
he is the only consistend character.
didnt noone of u notice that he didnt old a day since hl1 while alyx grew up and kleiner and barney grew old?
i do think that the gman stands somewhere out of this whole vortican/human/combine thing.
he has some interests or works for something with interests and is USING YOU to make things he wants.
remember him saying: "the right man in the wrong place can make aaaaaaaaaaall the difference" ?
remember him saying: "wake up, wake up mr. freeman" ?
like gordon was asleep or something ...
dont u ppl wonder WHERE gordon was all this years since the nihiland was defeated?
 
There definatly is an unknown party. The g-man feels like an agent to me, promoting his warrior - gordon.

I think the idea is that gordon, by nature, will choose to fight the "bad" guys. G-man knows this and uses the predictability of Gordon's nature for his (or his clients) own ends. This implies that there at least is one other party, even though it could be more. There could be an alliance trying to bring down Dr Breen's "benefactors". But we didn't get to find out.

I loved the ending. Especialy how g-man took the dust off of Alyx and twisted it between his fingers while talking to you. Also the white door? Damn that was cool! This game was awesome. I haven't replayed through it yet, but I'm sure there'll be lots of clues I missed on the first run.

Dr Breen is just a peon. He got himself in a position where he could promess his "benefactors" that he'd be able to supress human rebels and make humans a usefull resource if they'd let him try. His plan almost succeeded, except he didn't count on gordon. His "benefactors" knew gordon ment trouble because they massively went after him from the moment they knew he was in town. So I'm pretty sure they know about the g-man as well. Breen is a fool, nothing more. He thought he could get the "benefactors" to spare the humans, if they would submit themselves.

The combines are half alien and half human combined. From the testlabs in novaprospects is seemed clear they messed with brains, and Breen talking about moving to a host to teleport to his "benefactors" confirms this. I strongly suspect the combines are human bodies with alien minds.

Also, the HL1 resonance cascade was not an accident. It was planned by Dr Breen, who was probably following orders from the "benefactors" already back then.

A question that remains for me is how could the "benefactors" get to earth if they just lost Xen, the connecting world between theirs and earth? The only answer I see is that there was another portal built before HL1, that we don't know anything about, and is directly connected to earth (or slingshots undisturbed around Xen).
 
My interpretation...

My guess is that the Gman is fighting the combine, only using other people to do his dirty work, having people like Gordon act as "the muscle". I reckon he is from another world that was once under Combine control, but was liberated, and now he sp[ends his time helping others get rid of the combine (I doubt he really looks human, it's probably some sort of disguise). Xen is simply another world that the combine has over-run, eating up it's resources and enslaving it's population (the vortigaunts, or "alien slaves", who created the alien grunts in the factories you visited in Xen). By sabotaging the original experiment (Gman convincing the science personel to overload the capacitors, through whatever means), Xen aliens flood onto Earth. I'm guessing that the Gman wanted the two species to start some sort of inter-galatic war, and I'm also guessing that Gman thought the humans could win. Eventually, Freeman manages to kill Nihilanth (who also seems to be enslaved by Combine, or appointed like Breen), and pave the way for other forces to take over Xen (Gman says that Xen is "under our control" at the end of the game). Gman, now impressed by Freeman's actions, forces him into employment, storing him for whenever he is needed again.

Now, I'm guessing that the combine took back control over Xen, and then targetted Earth as an act of revenge. The 7-hour war happens, and Breen (the admin of Black mesa) manages to form a pact, and thus is appointed the administrator of Earth. Now, because of Freemans almost messianic status amongst the citizens, the Gman thought it would be a good idea to drop Freeman into the middle of this mess, hoping that his presence might start a second retaliation to the combine. Well, suffice to say, he did just that, and as soon as the citadel exploded at the end, the Gman figured the job was done and pulled Gordon out right at the last second. This is why the game ends here, your mission is effectively complete. He says that he has received some "interesting offers" for Freeman's handywork, which leads me to beleive that he might sell your "contract" to other people in need (Breen mentions something about Gordon's contract "being open to the highest bidder" when you talk with him at the end).

So, to tie up a few other loose ends...why are the vortigaunts helping the rebels? Well, because they were freed when killing Nihilanth, they seemed to be also dedicated to the cause of fighing against the combine. I'm guessing that Freeman's messianic status came from them, because of what you did for them. The citizens seemed to have just latched onto the idea over time. The rest of the Xen aliens (headcrabs, barnacles) are used to keep people in the cities (as well as the Ant Lions, who I think are either from yet another world the combine invaded, or just more Xen wild life we didn't see before). Because these animals are just wild life, they don't care much for their liberation. So headcrab shells are used on places like Ravenholm, to keep the resistance to a minimum. Barnacles and Ant Lions are placed in certain places, to keep people from trying to escape the cities.

Nova Prospekt acts as a prison of sorts, where people are tortured and turned into "stalkers", who are the skinny things that walk around the citadel. I can't be the only one that made the comparions between these stalkers, and the alien slaves working in a factory from HL1? The metrocops are the "civil protection units", who seem to be volunteers. The actual combine soldiers might also be volunteers, I'm not sure. I'm guessing that volunteers are shipped to Nova Prospekt and given the appropiate brain-washing procedure.

I think that's it...
 
2) I very highly doubt that one explosion way up at the top could knock down the mile high, solid steel Citadel. Maybe start a chain reaction that would finish it off eventually, but to take that huge thing down in one blow would take a MIGHTY amount of firepower. Plus, notice how the explosion of the portal doesn't look like a regular explosion, it's the same solid brownish orange solid color of the portal itself (notice when you're up at the very top, the two gunships come through the portal to help out). Perhaps Alyx gets teleported away by that? Something to speculate on.
Look up doing the end sequence. The tower is already falling, and a building of that size falling down on city 17? That's bound to wipe out round about absolutely everything that side of the citadel. I just hopes Barney was on the other side...
didnt noone of u notice that he didnt old a day since hl1 while alyx grew up and kleiner and barney grew old?
like gordon was asleep or something ...
dont u ppl wonder WHERE gordon was all this years since the nihiland was defeated?
Nope. I thought everyone assumed he was in stasis the entire time. Never gave it a second thought.
 
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