Eurogamer Fallout 3 Review: 10/10

[Cornerstone]

Are you roid raging or something,boy?
I Am complimenting the game yet here you are insulting me for no reason.
For your information,i am very much aware of how turn based combat works. It's based on combat points which are spend on actions of your and your enemies choosing.
As i said,this uses a simplified and shorter version of that mechanic.
Sorry for not going into detail so that i could satisfy the anal retentiveness of assholes such as you.

You are missing a lot about turn based sure there are action points but turn based is in opposition to real time and in no way is VATS a simplified or shorter version of turn based. You pause, you take your shot and although you do use points they are regained in real time not at the end of your turn. There is no turn, there is no turn-based.

And,yes! This is very much a RPG with FPS elements regardless its first person perspective. Your pea brain is just unable to comprehend that,that's all.

This is the worst reasoning, I've ever heard. FPS is easy enough to define, a shooter in first person. Do we have this? Yes we do. Okay, RPG's are more difficult to define today but the original idea was the creation of a character which is developed and will either fail or succeed by the system of rules set in place which was usually left up to dice rolls. In Fallout 3 we see the failure/success of the character is not just left to a rule system but left in a large part to the skills of the player. This is the same problem people saw in Oblivion a move away from role paying. This is how we form that it is an FPS at the base with RPG elements.

 

[CyberPitz]

Har har, internet fiiiighht!

 

[TwwIX]

This is the worst reasoning, I've ever heard. FPS is easy enough to define, a shooter in first person.

By your logic,Diablo and Dungeon Siege are not RPG's. Instead,they are strategy games because they use a top down view.

 

[DEATHMASTER]

Well, RPGs actually do use top down often enough to be considered normal.

 

[Gray Fox]

This game, what you can do, how the story go's, are mostly defined by RPG mechanics, you could take
out the first person camera and still have a very similar game, you couldn't do that by removing the RPG
elements. It's not an FPS it's an RPG in first person.

 

[Gargantou]

By your logic,Diablo and Dungeon Siege are not RPG's. Instead,they are strategy games because they use a top down view.

I wouldn't call Diablo an RPG, if Diablo is an RPG then so is NetHack(the game Diablo was based off), though NetHack is more of a RPG than Diablo since it relies on stats rather than mouse-clicking to hell and reflexes..

Diablo is a hack'n'slash with RPG elements.

 

[DEATHMASTER]

This game, what you can do, how the story go's, are mostly defined by RPG mechanics, you could take
out the first person camera and still have a very similar game, you couldn't do that by removing the RPG
elements. It's not an FPS it's an RPG in first person.

It meets the requirements of it though, so it's definitely an FPS (or TPS if you want to play the other way). Its not impossible to be both. TBH, the only time I used third person was to look at my awesome hair.

 

[Tagaziel]

Correction STALKER is a shooter with RPG elements. Fallout 3 is a RPG with shooter elements. The distinction it quite comprehensive.

Nope. STALKER is a shooter with inventory management. Deus Ex is a shooter with RPG elements.

Fallout 3 has some RPG elements, but they are either largely unimportant (stats), neglected (character combat skills vs. player skill) or severely dumbed down (dialogue). On the topic of dialogue: if you think Fallout 3 has good writing, you either haven't seen good writing or are somehow mentally handicapped. Do you really need high Intelligence to point out the obvious that Raiders store their goodies in a well protected cupboard? That 3Dawq is fighting the good fight with his radio?

And the confrontation with Eden. THE worst written confrontation in history, even more insulting considering that Fallout had excellent confrontations.

Also, it's a game set in a fantastical alternative universe. Replicating reality really isn't that big a deal to me personally. You want Fallout 3 in a realistic universe? then imagine a lot of empty buildings, bleached bones and not much else. Complaining about a lack of reality in a game is like complaining about salt in the Sea.

Excuse me? Kaday, Bethesda claimed the game is immersive and I'm holding them to their word, nothing less.

Are you roid raging or something,boy?
I Am complimenting the game yet here you are insulting me for no reason.
For your information,i am very much aware of how turn based combat works. It's based on combat points which are spend on actions of your and your enemies choosing.

No, it's based on taking turns to act, as opposed to real-time mechanics, where everyone acts at the same time and the AI is retarded due to it having a fraction of a CPU cycle for it's AI routines.

As i said,this uses a simplified and shorter version of that mechanic.

No, VATS is a superpower, since your enemies CAN NOT retaliate using the same mechanic.

And,yes! This is very much a RPG with FPS elements regardless its first person perspective.
Your pea brain is just unable to comprehend that,that's all.

This pea brain has played a lot of role-playing games. And this pea brain knows that calling Fallout 3 an RPG is an insult to the genre. It's a good shooter with RPG elements, I'll give you that. It just fails to be an RPG.

This is the worst reasoning, I've ever heard. FPS is easy enough to define, a shooter in first person. Do we have this? Yes we do. Okay, RPG's are more difficult to define today but the original idea was the creation of a character which is developed and will either fail or succeed by the system of rules set in place which was usually left up to dice rolls. In Fallout 3 we see the failure/success of the character is not just left to a rule system but left in a large part to the skills of the player. This is the same problem people saw in Oblivion a move away from role paying. This is how we form that it is an FPS at the base with RPG elements.

Here's a quick rundown of what makes an RPG, based on the classics:

1. Detailed character creation, allowing for a multitude of characters. Classes optional, but not necessarily welcome.
2. The player's skill is irrelevant, it's the character's skill that matters
3. Living world responding to your actions
4. Choices and consequences, prefferably long reaching ones that aren't immediately apparent
5. Multiple ways to approach problems

Fo3 fails #1,2 and 4. 3 partially.

Roguelikes and action RPGs like Diablo or Gothic are another story.

 

[CptStern]

are you still moaning about Fallout 3 and it's (apparent lack of) rpg-ness? :upstare: **** it's like you're in the bleachers pissing on the parade as it goes by ...at some point people just shut you off regardless if any of your points are valid or not, it's just too grating on the nerves to hear the same old song and dance everytime this subject comes up <turns knob to the off position>

btw did you buy the game or did you pirate it like you said you would?

 

[Cornerstone]

Are you still moaning about moaning about Fallout 3...

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

Again, I'm glad I have the advantage of not holding the game to some insanely high fanboy standard, because I'm having a goddamn blast right now.

Sure, it's dumbed down. Yes, it's less of an RPG than the first two. I don't care at all. I'm not playing for astounding writing (which the first fallout games didn't actually have, M.G.). It stand very well on it's on two mutated feet. In fact, after experiencing Beth's version of VATS, I'm going to have a damn hard time returning to the old Fallout games and enjoying the combat.

 

[Tagaziel]

I'll welcome the complexity, refinement and balance of previous Fallouts with open arms.

Oddly, you don't mention the quality of writing.

 

[KagePrototype]

Jesus christ. Why does every Fallout thread have to devolve into this crap?

If you can't enjoy it for what it is, that's your loss. If you can, good for you. Stop throwing insults at each other because the other guy doesn't think what you think.

 

[TwwIX]

Nope. STALKER is a shooter with inventory management. Deus Ex is a shooter with RPG elements.

Fallout 3 has some RPG elements, but they are either largely unimportant (stats), neglected (character combat skills vs. player skill) or severely dumbed down (dialogue). On the topic of dialogue: if you think Fallout 3 has good writing, you either haven't seen good writing or are somehow mentally handicapped. Do you really need high Intelligence to point out the obvious that Raiders store their goodies in a well protected cupboard? That 3Dawq is fighting the good fight with his radio?

And the confrontation with Eden. THE worst written confrontation in history, even more insulting considering that Fallout had excellent confrontations.



Excuse me? Kaday, Bethesda claimed the game is immersive and I'm holding them to their word, nothing less.

No, it's based on taking turns to act, as opposed to real-time mechanics, where everyone acts at the same time and the AI is retarded due to it having a fraction of a CPU cycle for it's AI routines.



No, VATS is a superpower, since your enemies CAN NOT retaliate using the same mechanic.



This pea brain has played a lot of role-playing games. And this pea brain knows that calling Fallout 3 an RPG is an insult to the genre. It's a good shooter with RPG elements, I'll give you that. It just fails to be an RPG.



Here's a quick rundown of what makes an RPG, based on the classics:

1. Detailed character creation, allowing for a multitude of characters. Classes optional, but not necessarily welcome.
2. The player's skill is irrelevant, it's the character's skill that matters
3. Living world responding to your actions
4. Choices and consequences, prefferably long reaching ones that aren't immediately apparent
5. Multiple ways to approach problems

Fo3 fails #1,2 and 4. 3 partially.

Roguelikes and action RPGs like Diablo or Gothic are another story.

I Am enjoying the game very much and you are not.

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

I'll welcome the complexity, refinement and balance of previous Fallouts with open arms.

Oddly, you don't mention the quality of writing.

Fallout 1/2 didn't have amazing writing. When I played through them (albeit this was years ago) I didn't find myself absolutely blown away. The dialog options that opened up through stats weren't any more convincing as things you could say by becoming more intelligent.

 

[CptStern]

who cares ..fallout 3 sold more in the first few days than fallout 1 and 2 combined ..if you dont understand that this is the driving force behind the entire video game industry and business in general you're either delusional or living in denial.

 

[Tagaziel]

Fallout 1/2 didn't have amazing writing. When I played through them (albeit this was years ago) I didn't find myself absolutely blown away. The dialog options that opened up through stats weren't any more convincing as things you could say by becoming more intelligent.

Fallout 1/2 had very good writing. If I want amazing writing, I fire up Planescape: Torment, which is absolutely mind-blowingly awesome in that department.

Fallout 3 compared to Fallout 1/2 is complete crap in that department. And compared to Planescape: Torment... it's like comparing an amoeba (Fo3) to a cougar (PS:T).

I am enjoying the game, but it could've been so much better. It doesn't live up to it's Fallout name in any way except for atmosphere.

who cares ..fallout 3 sold more in the first few days than fallout 1 and 2 combined ..if you dont understand that this is the driving force behind the entire video game industry and business in general you're either delusional or living in denial.

When did you become a gullible sheep, Stern? It outsold Fallout 1 and 2 combined but ONLY IN GREAT BRITAIN.

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

who cares ..fallout 3 sold more in the first few days than fallout 1 and 2 combined ..if you dont understand that this is the driving force behind the entire video game industry and business in general you're either delusional or living in denial.

Well, they also had one of the largest advertising campaigns that the industry has kicked off thus far. That's hardly representative of the game's quality. If that were true, each and every Halo regurgitation or casual Wii game would have to be labeled as a "driving force."

Sure, it's popularizing the medium, but M.G. will undoubtably refute you with "at what cost?"

hurp durpppp

 

[CptStern]

at what cost? by all accounts a good if not great game ...so really what's the harm here? oh gawd someone stepped on video game lore? this isnt the ****ing bible, this isnt war and peace it's a

video

game

That's hardly representative of the game's quality

I never said it was, it's good, that's good enough for me, it doesnt have to be the freakin second coming of the messiah



disclaimer: although it sounds like I'm ranting at you BHC, I'm not, dell just sent me an email saying my fallout3 shipment is delayed .,****ingmother****ingcocksuckingmother****ersfromhell!!!!!!11111

 

[Tagaziel]

disclaimer: although it sounds like I'm ranting at you BHC, I'm not, dell just sent me an email saying my fallout3 shipment is delayed .,****ingmother****ingcocksuckingmother****ersfromhell!!!!!!11111

So you're defending a game you didn't even play yet, unlike me, who clocked in about thirty hours?

FYI: Mine is a second hand copy, bought from a disappointed friend.

 

[Combine Hybrid]

Let's stop the bitching and back to game discussion.

So, apparently some asshole in another board spoiled the main plot, now I don't care anymore about the plot.

Anyway, if anyone gone through Jefferson Memorial for the main quest, did you find all the holograms regarding

Spoiler

Project Purity?

I'm missing 4, 6, and 9 holograms.

Also, where are the joinable crews other than the guy in Megaton and Dogmeat?

 

[ktimekiller]

ammo is so scarce. I ran out of ammo while killing the lurkers near waters.

They sure take tons of hits

 

[CptStern]

So you're defending a game you didn't even play yet, unlike me, who clocked in about thirty hours?

FYI: Mine is a second hand copy, bought from a disappointed friend.

I'm noit defending anyhting, I'm saying your constant complaining is old

 

[Gray Fox]

That sentence is going to come back to bush you.

 

[CyberPitz]

This thread turned into crap

*edit* I just realized I think I skipped a portion of the storyline.

Spoiler

I was supposed to go from Megaton to the radio station to find my dad, but I ended up sidequesting and ended up in Rivet City, and learned that dad went THERE for some shit and I realized that I just bipassed some of the story....

Can someone tell me if I missed more than just that one place, or are there other locations I needed?

 

[knut]

This thread turned into crap

*edit* I just realized I think I skipped a portion of the storyline.

Spoiler

I was supposed to go from Megaton to the radio station to find my dad, but I ended up sidequesting and ended up in Rivet City, and learned that dad went THERE for some shit and I realized that I just bipassed some of the story....

Can someone tell me if I missed more than just that one place, or are there other locations I needed?

Thats exactly the route I took.

Spoiler

I went back to the radio station just recently and he gave me a quest and a reward, but as far as I can tell you can either go to Rivet or D.C. and then you go on to find your dad. I'm not sure theres much else to do if you decide to via D.C. first. I didn't go to D.C. because I couldn't find a way in - just recently I discovered you use the subways, or at least tunnels I had overlooked at first.

 

[Tagaziel]

Some retards over at BGSF complained about skipping portions of the storyline in true Fallout fashion. Too bad the rest of main quest is so... linear.

Anywhoo, I'm playing again, with another character, and all this game's flaws are becoming painfully obvious this time around.

 

[CptStern]

"I hate it so much I'm playing it twice"


you're a strange little fellow mikael

 

[CyberPitz]

Thats exactly the route I took.

Spoiler

I went back to the radio station just recently and he gave me a quest and a reward, but as far as I can tell you can either go to Rivet or D.C. and then you go on to find your dad. I'm not sure theres much else to do if you decide to via D.C. first. I didn't go to D.C. because I couldn't find a way in - just recently I discovered you use the subways, or at least tunnels I had overlooked at first.

Gotcha, but...wait, DC? I've never even HEARD anybody talking about DC yet. I think I missed a lot lol.

 

[Gargantou]

"I hate it so much I'm playing it twice"


you're a strange little fellow mikael

and you're a grumpy condescending ol' fella stern

 

[CptStern]

and you're a grumpy condescending ol' fella stern

and you're a trollish not overly bright fellow, there gargantua

is that condescending enough or should I go for moar?

 

[Tagaziel]

"I hate it so much I'm playing it twice"


you're a strange little fellow mikael

I hate it as a Fallout sequel, like it as a Fallout spinoff, kinda like it as a generic PA survival gaem.

As I said, 7/10 standalone, 8/10 Fallout spinoff, 2/10 Fallout sequel.

 

[Kadayi]

This game, what you can do, how the story go's, are mostly defined by RPG mechanics, you could take
out the first person camera and still have a very similar game, you couldn't do that by removing the RPG
elements. It's not an FPS it's an RPG in first person.

QFT

The mechanics of a game do not make it an RPG, it is the what happens in the game in terms of the play. This 'turn based' = RPG talk is ill founded bullshit (Risk is not an RPG). The only reason the early RPGs were turn based is because that was a reflection of the technological constraints of gaming at the time. They didn't have open world, funky 3D engines capable of meeting RPG expectations back when Fallout 1 was conceived.

Whether a game is a 'turn based RPG' such as Baldurs gate or Fallout 1, or whether it is an 'action RPG' such as Fallout 3, Mass Effect, The Witcher, KoToR, VTM:B it's still an RPG because much of the game involved NPC interaction, dialogue options and player choices that impact upon the Storyline. To get hung up on game mechanics as a point of differential is to be found pissing in the wind of progress. :dozey:

 

[Cornerstone]

Baldur's Gate was RTwP...

What technical restraint of recreating a tabletop experience was there with Fallout 1???

If you don't know RPG's that well then maybe you shouldn't be commenting on them.

 

[comoxer]

Im loving it, DC is a pain in the arse to navigate though, christ.

 

[Acepilotf14]

QFT

The mechanics of a game do not make it an RPG, it is the what happens in the game in terms of the play. This 'turn based' = RPG talk is ill founded bullshit (Risk is not an RPG). The only reason the early RPGs were turn based is because that was a reflection of the technological constraints of gaming at the time. They didn't have open world, funky 3D engines capable of meeting RPG expectations back when Fallout 1 was conceived.

Whether a game is a 'turn based RPG' such as Baldurs gate or Fallout 1, or whether it is an 'action RPG' such as Fallout 3, Mass Effect, The Witcher, KoToR, VTM:B it's still an RPG because much of the game involved NPC interaction, dialogue options and player choices that impact upon the Storyline. To get hung up on game mechanics as a point of differential is to be found pissing in the wind of progress. :dozey:

KoToR is turn based. It just seems real time.

 

[Gargantou]

and you're a trollish not overly bright fellow, there gargantua

is that condescending enough or should I go for moar?

Please go for more, I know that nothing of what you're writing is true so it doesn't bother me, heck you didn't even spell my nickname properly so meh.

Can't be arsed to get offended by some random internet guy that I've never met and I don't know, got better things to waste my energy on, like debating with Republicans who argue that Obama is a communist because he wants to increase regulations of Wall Street.

So, end point, by all means if you want to go for more, knock yourself out, and hey, when you're done, maybe you can stop neglecting your children and do some parenting instead of arguing with 'trollish not overly bright fellows' over the internet.

Take care.

 

[knut]

Please go for more, I know that nothing of what you're writing is true so it doesn't bother me, heck you didn't even spell my nickname properly so meh.

Can't be arsed to get offended by some random internet guy that I've never met and I don't know, got better things to waste my energy on, like debating with Republicans who argue that Obama is a communist because he wants to increase regulations of Wall Street.

So, end point, by all means if you want to go for more, knock yourself out, and hey, when you're done, maybe you can stop neglecting your children and do some parenting instead of arguing with 'trollish not overly bright fellows' over the internet.

Take care.

That last comment is a little personal for someone YOU haven't met and don't know, save for except as a username on the internet, and that is no way enough to justify that kind of response.

 

[DEATHMASTER]

Im loving it, DC is a pain in the arse to navigate though, christ.

i hate how u cant go over rubble, I don't believe that one couldn't just climb this shit. It's just hills of crap.

 

[Gargantou]

That last comment is a little personal for someone YOU haven't met and don't know, save for except as a username on the internet, and that is no way enough to justify that kind of response.

Well boohoo, I doubt he cares what a 'troll' like myself says.

I think it's unwarranted the way he jumps at Mikael to begin with.