Ever taken drugs?

[Reaktor4]

Which part is made up or exaggerated, when they show pictures of teenagers who end up dying after one pill of E or Crack or whatever? No, they aren't, people are effected different ways by different drugs, but all people need to know is that they are very bad and they should remain illegal, no matter what idiots like you think. Hard drugs isn't like alcohol, where if you don't take too much, you just become light headed and a little dizzy, hard drugs, you go from absolutely fine to wacko land in a single pill.


I have never smoked, i drink the equivalent to 1 pint of beer every 3 - 4 months and i have never considered taking any drugs.

Youre exactly the type of person im talking about. Even if i rip what you say to shreds, you will start making excuses, so i wont bother.

 

[The Dark Elf]

The difference is i have actually used various drugs.
Do you remember leah betts, probably the most famous example of what im talking about, btw (without using google of course)?

yep I remember her

Point is, these stories of people doing things or being effected in wildly different and weird ways do seem unbelievable.. but they do happen, drugs just **** everything up and turn completely rational and normal people into god knows what.. even when done properly, things can still have a bad effect, and nobody can ever know for sure until it happens, if its gonna happen. Then there's the addiction and the damage it does to the body anyway.

Only thing that can come from pretty much all drugs is regrets.. sure, some make you feel better for a bit, and aren't so harmful, but its still a drug and it will still cause harm in the long term.

Best avoided completely, but most people are gonna try cause its easier to learn from your own mistakes than from someone telling you what to do, especially for kids who automatically think they know best.

Just the way things are. Anyways, drugs are bad mmmkay?

 

[Atomi]

I'm surprised that the voting goes almost 50/50. I haven't heard any drug stories from the young (15-20) people around me. I guess it's not as common in Finland as it is in the UK or US.

 

[Raz]

Youre exactly the type of person im talking about. Even if i rip what you say to shreds, you will start making excuses, so i wont bother.

I can rip anything you can say in favor of drugs to shreds in seconds, but I won't cause, you know, I don't feel like it.

Saying you've got great arguments but not bothering to actually give them doesn't win you a discussion.

 

[bliink]

Anyways, drugs are bad mmmkay?

thats always gonna be the bottom line too... regardless of how bad.. they certainly arent good.

 

[Razor]

Youre exactly the type of person im talking about. Even if i rip what you say to shreds, you will start making excuses, so i wont bother.

Rip what i said to shreds, drugs are bad, you only have to go and talk to the people who take them and are addicted to them to figure that out.

Or are you still under the umbrella that "drugs are fun and exciting and make you look cool"?

 

[Foxtrot]

I have never taken drugs and I never will.

 

[Reaktor4]

yep I remember her

Good. Im sure you noticed the media storm about her death after taking a single ecstacy pill. Did you notice the small article hidden away in one or two papers a while afterwards admitting that she had actually died of a water overdose, directly caused by the lack of (ie, no) harm reduction education given to drug users by the government? She had obviously heard that youre supposed to drink water when your on e, but didnt know that this is only if youre dancing and should be limited to a pint an hour anyway.

Point is, these stories of people doing things or being effected in wildly different and weird ways do seem unbelievable.. but they do happen, drugs just **** everything up and turn completely rational and normal people into god knows what.. even when done properly, things can still have a bad effect, and nobody can ever know for sure until it happens, if its gonna happen. Then there's the addiction and the damage it does to the body anyway.

Sorry but your argument is not logical or valid.

Only thing that can come from pretty much all drugs is regrets.. sure, some make you feel better for a bit, and aren't so harmful, but its still a drug and it will still cause harm in the long term.

So does oxygen.

Best avoided completely, but most people are gonna try cause its easier to learn from your own mistakes than from someone telling you what to do, especially for kids who automatically think they know best.

Just the way things are. Anyways, drugs are bad mmmkay?

Mmmkay..

 

[bliink]

Sorry but your argument is not logical or valid.

are you saying illegal drugs are a good thing? or not?

 

[Reaktor4]

I can rip anything you can say in favor of drugs to shreds in seconds, but I won't cause, you know, I don't feel like it.

Saying you've got great arguments but not bothering to actually give them doesn't win you a discussion.

Are you saying im lying? I do have them.

 

[The Dark Elf]

Good. Im sure you noticed the media storm about her death after taking a single ecstacy pill. Did you notice the small article hidden away in one or two papers a while afterwards admitting that she had actually died of a water overdose, directly caused by the lack of (ie, no) harm reduction education given to drug users by the government? She had obviously heard that youre supposed to drink water when your on e, but didnt know that this is only if youre dancing and should be limited to a pint an hour anyway.

Sorry but your argument is not logical or valid.

So does oxygen.

Mmmkay..

So by that.. your pretty much saying e's are fine cause water killed her?

What about the thousands who die _because_ of e's.. even when they haven't been tainted by something else.

Or should we just swipe that under the carpet for now?

 

[MadHatter]

Drugs r t3h b4dz0rz!!! Seriously though, anything that provokes negative effects to the body is uhhh... bad. Besides, why do you need something to make you feel good, calm or happy? If you do then you need help or Cheeses.

 

[Reaktor4]

are you saying illegal drugs are a good thing? or not?

Thats hard to say. I would say neither. Common thing, as i have pointed out before, for prohibitonists to do is to say that the reformists/realists are saying that all drugs are absolutely harmless and 'good' etc. because if that was the case the argument would possibly be winnable for them. That is not the case.

 

[The Dark Elf]

Drugs r t3h b4dz0rz!!! Seriously though, anything that provokes negative effects to the body is uhhh... bad. Besides, why do you need something to make you feel good, calm or happy? If you do then you need help or Cheeses.

Well from my own experience I used them to feel good more than fit in.. Wasn't till later I realised I didn't need them, hadn't got addicted at that point so could quit... Just not managed to do that with regular nicotine yet.. soon though.. soon.

 

[Tr0n]

Drugs are for the weak.It's that simple....If you need a drug to help you out in reality or to escape life then you need to get ahold of yourself.

 

[The Dark Elf]

Thats hard to say. I would say neither. Common thing, as i have pointed out before, for prohibitonists to do is to say that the reformists/realists are saying that all drugs are absolutely harmless and 'good' etc. because if that was the case the argument would possibly be winnable for them. That is not the case.

Your sitting on the fence

 

[Raz]

Are you saying im lying? I do have them.

Yeah, I have them too! I really do! They're just not around right now...

 

[Reaktor4]

So by that.. your pretty much saying e's are fine cause water killed her?

What about the thousands who die _because_ of e's.. even when they haven't been tainted by something else.

Or should we just swipe that under the carpet for now?

You have evidence of thousands of people dying from clean es, who havnt dehydrated or overdosed on water? Id love to see that, mainly because it would take about 90 pills for the average adult to die of an mdma overdose. If youre talking about allergic reactions, id like to see that too although it doesnt help your argument.

 

[Reaktor4]

Your sitting on the fence

No im being realistic. They can have good effects or bad, mainly depending on how theyre used.

 

[Reaktor4]

Yeah, I have them too! I really do! They're just not around right now...

Ok then well start with heroin because ive already talked about that, with no rational arguments on any of the points i made. If you could provide some, please let me know.
Heres a copy of the post:

Pure heroin (diacetylmorphine/diamorphine) does zero permanent physical damage to the user.
Street heroin is sold to users at vastly inflated prices, compared to what it would cost if sold legally. This is the reason why people are forced into crime to pay for the drug. People arent gonna rob houses if their habit costs £5 a day, however the way things are now it can cost over £150 a day.
Criminal gangs make most of their money from selling illegal drugs.
These illegal drugs are usually mixed with all sorts of crap that maximises harm to the user, and profit to the dealer.
Accidental overdoses can happen because people dont know how strong the drug theyre taking is. However, with steet heroin this is still fairly rare, as heroin itself is definitely not easy to fatally overdose on. A heroin overdose is, for example, not as dangerous as a paracetamol/acetaminophen overdose and that is sold over the counter in many places. Most of the 'fatal heroin overdoses' you hear about are actually deaths caused by dangerous contaminants in the drug, not the drug itself.
Addiction isnt necessarily a big problem in itself. If an addict is supplied with a clean, safe drug when needed, they will not have to endure withdrawal symptoms and can get on with their life, much like nicotine addicts.
According to an australian government survey, only 8% of male and 4% of female heroin users use the drug daily.
Addicts, or anyone else, currently arent given any proper education on how to use drugs safely from governments. In a legal environment this should include for example how to inject properly to avoid injury.
With the price of drugs being artificially inflated as i mentioned earlier, addicts must maximise the effect of the drug by injecting as opposed to smoking (for example), in order to avoid withdrawal symptoms as much as possible. With the state of the drugs sold on the street, injecting obviously leads to more physical harm to the user.
The average age of a heroin addict in holland is about 43 and rising. In the uk it is around 20 and falling. More tolerant countries have less drug users.

 

[The Dark Elf]

No im being realistic. They can have good effects or bad, mainly depending on how theyre used.

I see no good real effects from any drugs.. the real effects are mostly from the mind, a placebo can do that. The bad effects are quite real however.

 

[bliink]

Ok then well start with heroin because ive already talked about that, with no rational arguments on any of the points i made. If you could provide some, please let me know.
Heres a copy of the post:

Pure heroin (diacetylmorphine/diamorphine) does zero permanent physical damage to the user.
Street heroin is sold to users at vastly inflated prices, compared to what it would cost if sold legally. This is the reason why people are forced into crime to pay for the drug. People arent gonna rob houses if their habit costs £5 a day, however the way things are now it can cost over £150 a day.
Criminal gangs make most of their money from selling illegal drugs.
These illegal drugs are usually mixed with all sorts of crap that maximises harm to the user, and profit to the dealer.
Accidental overdoses can happen because people dont know how strong the drug theyre taking is. However, with steet heroin this is still fairly rare, as heroin itself is definitely not easy to fatally overdose on. A heroin overdose is, for example, not as dangerous as a paracetamol/acetaminophen overdose and that is sold over the counter in many places. Most of the 'fatal heroin overdoses' you hear about are actually deaths caused by dangerous contaminants in the drug, not the drug itself.
Addiction isnt necessarily a big problem in itself. If an addict is supplied with a clean, safe drug when needed, they will not have to endure withdrawal symptoms and can get on with their life, much like nicotine addicts.
According to an australian government survey, only 8% of male and 4% of female heroin users use the drug daily.
Addicts, or anyone else, currently arent given any proper education on how to use drugs safely from governments. In a legal environment this should include for example how to inject properly to avoid injury.
With the price of drugs being artificially inflated as i mentioned earlier, addicts must maximise the effect of the drug by injecting as opposed to smoking (for example), in order to avoid withdrawal symptoms as much as possible. With the state of the drugs sold on the street, injecting obviously leads to more physical harm to the user.
The average age of a heroin addict in holland is about 43 and rising. In the uk it is around 20 and falling. More tolerant countries have less drug users.

heroin != good

 

[Reaktor4]

heroin != good

Right... now if you actually like to discuss the points i made and show me the parts that are wrong (remember the bit about rational responses), then id be happy to debate with you. If you cant, why even bother replying.

 

[Raz]

Ok then well start with heroin because ive already talked about that, with no rational arguments on any of the points i made. If you could provide some, please let me know.

Heh, I don't care much for this discussion. All I'm saying is that saying you've got arguments doesn't get you anywhere in a debate.

 

[The Dark Elf]

Right... now if you actually like to discuss the points i made and show me the parts that are wrong (remember the bit about rational responses), then id be happy to debate with you. If you cant, why even bother replying.

Behave Reaktor4, debate by all means, but don't resort to insulting other users.

 

[MadHatter]

Ok then well start with heroin because ive already talked about that, with no rational arguments on any of the points i made. If you could provide some, please let me know.
Heres a copy of the post:

Pure heroin (diacetylmorphine/diamorphine) does zero permanent physical damage to the user.
Street heroin is sold to users at vastly inflated prices, compared to what it would cost if sold legally. This is the reason why people are forced into crime to pay for the drug. People arent gonna rob houses if their habit costs £5 a day, however the way things are now it can cost over £150 a day.
Criminal gangs make most of their money from selling illegal drugs.
These illegal drugs are usually mixed with all sorts of crap that maximises harm to the user, and profit to the dealer.
Accidental overdoses can happen because people dont know how strong the drug theyre taking is. However, with steet heroin this is still fairly rare, as heroin itself is definitely not easy to fatally overdose on. A heroin overdose is, for example, not as dangerous as a paracetamol/acetaminophen overdose and that is sold over the counter in many places. Most of the 'fatal heroin overdoses' you hear about are actually deaths caused by dangerous contaminants in the drug, not the drug itself.
Addiction isnt necessarily a big problem in itself. If an addict is supplied with a clean, safe drug when needed, they will not have to endure withdrawal symptoms and can get on with their life, much like nicotine addicts.
According to an australian government survey, only 8% of male and 4% of female heroin users use the drug daily.
Addicts, or anyone else, currently arent given any proper education on how to use drugs safely from governments. In a legal environment this should include for example how to inject properly to avoid injury.
With the price of drugs being artificially inflated as i mentioned earlier, addicts must maximise the effect of the drug by injecting as opposed to smoking (for example), in order to avoid withdrawal symptoms as much as possible. With the state of the drugs sold on the street, injecting obviously leads to more physical harm to the user.
The average age of a heroin addict in holland is about 43 and rising. In the uk it is around 20 and falling. More tolerant countries have less drug users.

Your crime argument: That's like saying I'm forced to rob people and stores because my job doesn't pay me enough. Oh well, should've done your homework? Besides, nothing warrants a good reason to steal from someone.

 

[Reaktor4]

I see no good real effects from any drugs.. the real effects are mostly from the mind, a placebo can do that. The bad effects are quite real however.

The bad effects are about a million times worse under prohibition than they would otherwise be.

 

[The Dark Elf]

The bad effects are about a million times worse under prohibition than they would otherwise be.

You honestly believe that don't you?

 

[Reaktor4]

Your crime argument: That's like saying I'm forced to rob people and stores because my job doesn't pay me enough. Oh well, should've done your homework? Besides, nothing warrants a good reason to steal from someone.

Maybe you could give an alternative explanation as to why these people do it then?

 

[Tr0n]

Right... now if you actually like to discuss the points i made and show me the parts that are wrong (remember the bit about rational responses), then id be happy to debate with you. If you cant, why even bother replying.

The tens of thousands of people who have died from drugs or that have died from gang wars that happend because of them.The people who get killed because of the mafia dealing out drugs...That a good enough response?What about the corruption?Or the children born in to a bad life because there parents drug addiction?What about them?

 

[Reaktor4]

You honestly believe that don't you?

Did you read my heroin post?
Read this while youre at it: http://www.tdpf.org.uk/Policy_General_AftertheWaronDrugsReport.htm

 

[The Dark Elf]

Maybe you could give an alternative explanation as to why these people do it then?

People are trying to but you don't seem to want to listen to those who have experience.

 

[Reaktor4]

The tens of thousands of people who have died from drugs or that have died from gang wars that happend because of them.The people who get killed because of the mafia dealing out drugs...That a good enough response?What about the corruption?Or the children born in to a bad life because there parents drug addiction?What about them?

You are confusing the harms of drugs with the harms of prohibiton. Read the heroin post.............

 

[Reckless]

im sensing bannage in the near future for reaktor4 lol

 

[Reaktor4]

People are trying to but you don't seem to want to listen to those who have experience.

Nobody has. Why dont nicotine addicts rob people?

 

[The Dark Elf]

im sensing bannage in the near future for reaktor4 lol

He wont be banned, only warned then banned if he attacks users personally

debating, even though he's pretty wrong wont get him banned, thats just a myth made up by the political people

 

[Tr0n]

If we didn't have drugs in the first place this wouldn't be happening...now would it?

 

[Reaktor4]

im sensing bannage in the near future for reaktor4 lol

Well if i get banned simply for telling the truth and trying to have a sensible debate, then there wasnt any point coming here in the first place.

 

[The Dark Elf]

Nobody has. Why dont nicotine addicts rob people?

lol, now your really struggling to make a point

You've never heard of someone who smokes, has no cigs, then robbing someone for theirs? Happens all the time, often little old ladies are the targets.

 

[Tr0n]

Well if i get banned simply for telling the truth and trying to have a sensible debate, then there wasnt any point coming here in the first place.

Truth?Truth my ass...here is the truth.

It's for the weak.People who gave into what other people said or just because they didn't have a good life...just because they can't deal with reality.I'd rather have control of mind then lose it to some substance.