Fallout 3 teaser next month, new concept art!

[CptStern]

As if Oblivions combat what any better, the AI had horrible pathfinding issues, but then again Oblivion was quite melee focused, I remembered I just jumped onto a rock as a level 10 char and killed a ton of guards just because they couldn't reach me and I could shoot an infinite amount of fireballs into them.

I dont see how that has anything to do with what I said

Not "pockets". Fallout world is wasteland. The entire world is one giant wasteland with pockes of civilization, not the other way round.

you miss my point ..areas of iraq are wasteland ..you could easily just take one segment of iraq and call it just that: a wasteland ...in other words have a relatively small gameplay map can still be a wasteland (with pockets of civilization as you suggest)

Reinterpretation? Fallout has three core elements: 50's pulp sci-fi stylisation, pen and paper role playing game feel, choice and consequence. These are the elements that cannot be removed from the game, as it stops being Fallout (eg. you remove the role-playing, you get FOOS, you remove choice and consequence and rape other elements, you get FO:T). There is nothing to interpret here.

? they can tack on the name Fallout on it and anything that came out of it would be a "reinterpretation" ..gameplay elements do not make the game ..that's like saying Grand theft auto 3 is not really grand theft auto because it was in 3d ...that's what artisitic liscence is for ..it doesnt mean they'll make a successful reinterpretation

Thankfully, according to NMA's sources, the action will take place on the east coast, so there won't be too many opportunities to rape Fallout's lore.

you contradict yourself ..lore and gameplay are not equal

Apples to oranges: Dodge Charger and Dodge Ram are essentially the same (steering wheel, engine).

yes and? I fail to see your point ..in the context I just presented my analogy is valid

Then when? After the game's released and fan input will be as useful as a pair of thermal underwear in Death Valley at high noon?

are you saying that a vocal minority has a chance at changing the direction of a game that for all intents and purposes was fleshed out years ago and is in the final stages of production? come on man that's just silly ...again it is premature to judge what the outcome will be because WE DONT KNOW SQUAT about the game

You are joking, right? Because with this logic, Jagged Alliance 2's combat model is simplistic, while Diablo 2's is highly complex and advanced.

what? you've twisted my logic to something I clearly did not say/imply ...ANY deviance from what it was in the past is just that: a progression because of the limitations of the day ...since we DONT KNOW what that is we CANT make a valid comparison nor can we comment if it's a change for the better or worse

Stern, get your facts straight. This is Fallout. This is seriose busines.

no, I see this as a small but very vocal community wanting a return to the past when that would most likely be financial suicide ...you dont sell games in the millions of copies by making it accessible to a small but vocal minority ..we've had this discussion before: the rules have changed from a decade ago ..success is no longer measured in how innovative or progressive you are ..if that were true there would be no need for consoles (to an extent) ..sales figures is all that matters; unforetunate but true ..they really have no other choice ..well they do but that doesnt make for a profitable game: make it exactly as it was before and sell limited amount of copies to die hard fans and little else

I am willing to bet that Fallout 3 will NOT be isometric or turn based

/me slaps $100 bill on table

any takers?

 

[Jack Thomas]

The 500 day time-limit is removed in 1.02, and the water chip retrieval limit is 150 days at start and can be extended by 100 days at the Hub. To lose because of the limit you'd really need to be slow.

Apologies, edited my post before reading yours. Good to hear, now even I stand a chance.

EDIT : There were some real world weapons in Fallout 2 atleast. IE. FN FAL.

 

[Cerpin]

I'm excited. Worried, but excited.

 

[HunterSeeker]

If they remove turn based combat I will be sad but not suprised. If they make the combat like in oblivion (ie, it feels like hitting the enemy with rubber sticks) I will greatly dissapointed and lose all faith in Bethseda RPGs, I did not like morrowind nor oblivion that much but at least they got Dark Corners of the Earth right!

 

[Tagaziel]

you miss my point ..areas of iraq are wasteland ..you could easily just take one segment of iraq and call it just that: a wasteland ...in other words have a relatively small gameplay map can still be a wasteland (with pockets of civilization as you suggest)

Which part of "Fallout takes place in a VAST wasteland" you do no understand? You are intelligent and resourceful, so you should understand it.

? they can tack on the name Fallout on it and anything that came out of it would be a "reinterpretation" ..gameplay elements do not make the game ..that's like saying Grand theft auto 3 is not really grand theft auto because it was in 3d ...that's what artisitic liscence is for ..it doesnt mean they'll make a successful reinterpretation

Be precise. I took "reinterpretation" as "revisionism of all game lore, gameplay etc.".

you contradict yourself ..lore and gameplay are not equal

In Fallout's case they are. See: Core elements of Fallout

yes and? I fail to see your point ..in the context I just presented my analogy is valid

No, it is not. It implies that Oblivion is Morrowind Deluxe.

are you saying that a vocal minority has a chance at changing the direction of a game that for all intents and purposes was fleshed out years ago and is in the final stages of production? come on man that's just silly ...again it is premature to judge what the outcome will be because WE DONT KNOW SQUAT about the game

Bethesda is making a game for fans of Fallout. They take an existing franchise with a large fanbase. This is not Elder Scrolls, their title.

This is Fallout.

And the fanbase isn't simply a minority.

what? you've twisted my logic to something I clearly did not say/imply ...ANY deviance from what it was in the past is just that: a progression because of the limitations of the day ...since we DONT KNOW what that is we CANT make a valid comparison nor can we comment if it's a change for the better or worse

So, changing the setting, lore, atmosphere etc. is progression? Fallout's presentation may have been limited by technology. Lore, setting, dialogues etc. were not.

no, I see this as a small but very vocal community wanting a return to the past when that would most likely be financial suicide

You really try hard not to understand, right?

We acknowledge progress of technology, and it is welcome, nobody protested against Fallout 3 using a 3D engine. We do oppose, however, raping the P&P RPG gameplay, changing and twisting backstory and setting (which will almost inevitably happen, seeing how Oblivion crapped on all Elder Scrolls role) and abandoning the 50s stylisation.

In short, we don't want Oblivion with guns.

...you dont sell games in the millions of copies by making it accessible to a small but vocal minority

This "small vocal" minority is also known as "guaranteed sell market". You know that when it was stated that FO:T would help finance FO3, it became the most pre-ordered Interplay's game?

..we've had this discussion before: the rules have changed from a decade ago ..success is no longer measured in how innovative or progressive you are ..if that were true there would be no need for consoles (to an extent) ..sales figures is all that matters; unforetunate but true ..they really have no other choice

That doesn't rule out innovation and "staying true to previous games". See: C&C3.

..well they do but that doesnt make for a profitable game: make it exactly as it was before and sell limited amount of copies to die hard fans and little else

Where did I say I wanted Fallout 3: Fallout Deluxe? Nowhere. I want a Fallout 3 that stays true to previous games in terms of gameplay (true RPG), setting and backstory (lore involving only Fallout and Fallout 2) as well as style (50s pulp sci-fi gone nuclear).

I am willing to bet that Fallout 3 will NOT be isometric or turn based

/me slaps $100 bill on table

any takers?

I'm still thinking you're half-drunk when typing.

Apologies, edited my post before reading yours. Good to hear, now even I stand a chance.

EDIT : There were some real world weapons in Fallout 2 atleast. IE. FN FAL.

Fallout had no real-world weapons. Fallout 2 non-sensically introduced them, even more so because the tech was from the year 2077, which made these weapons at least 70 years old by the time of the war and 160 by the time of Fallout.

So, real world weapons are a big no-no.

 

[Kyorisu]

Fallout 3 will not be like the originals and no matter how much you whine and complain you won't get your way.

 

[SAJ]

Bullshit. OMGWTFSHINY Oblivion compared to the gritty Half-Life 2 indicates that Source would be a better choice for the game.

Ignorant statement. Artistic style and engine capability are not the same thing. The way Oblivion looked was an artistic decision, not because they lacked Valve's patented "gritty realism" (TM) shader technology.
The design decisions you make depend largely on the setting you are trying to create. Sure, I would join you in the pitchfork-w
ealding mob if they ended up making F3 all shiny and clean looking, but its not likely to happen when your brief is "post-apocalyptic wasteland" .

Bullshit. All-spoken dialogue was done in a crappy way in Oblivion (repeating voices, mismatched voices, relatively short) and does not add to immersion....

...in your opinion. Personally, I thought that having people speak to you was a huge step forward when compared to plain text. So much more can be said by actors given the right direction and script than just by words alone, sure you might not like what is said or by whom or even how they say it, but to say that we should ignore the spoken word and go back to -essentially- to silent era is beyond even what I expect of you.

Half-Life 2 > Oblivon

For facial animation ? Sure, not going to happen though, the team are well versed in their engine of choice and better facial animation is not nearly enough to make them change now. Besides, there are limitations associated with all game engines, even Source.

Yes, a giant wasteland measuring 32 square kilometers. ZOMG! Twice as big as Oblivion!

Ah yes, pointless sarcasm, the intelectuals weapon of choice. I dont know what exactly you're trying to say here. Is it not big enough for you? You do understand that developers have work with restraints imposed by current technology and financial realities, dont you?

Except this isn't a wasteland.

Fallout took action in California. A burnt out, obliterated version of the state and the map covered much, much more than 32 square kilometers.

Again, I dont see your issue, am I labouring under some misaprehension in thinking that the world of "Fallout" is a post-nuclear wasteland?
Wasteland definition :"Land that is desolate, barren, or ravaged.
A place, era, or aspect of life considered as lacking in spiritual, aesthetic, or other humanizing qualities; a vacuum: a cultural wasteland."
Or are you banging on about size again?
As somebody already mentioned, the Fallout games are not that big. They are small isometric areas linked by a large-scale, two dimensional map.
Now, I know this is unlikely to happen, but there's nothing stopping them from doing the same with F3, just with large 3D areas instead of isometric.
Keep the overland map for transitions between areas, nothing wrong with that (just keep in mind that its very unlikely to happen).

There are no "untold numbers" of "bunkers inhabited by mutant hordes" in Fallout and never were.

And what's wrong with having a landscape littered with interesting things to explore?
Ah yes, its not in the canon. :upstare:

Have intercourse with yourself too!

Up to this point I was going to say what an entertaining wing-nut you are, but in reality youre just a bit pathetic if you find it necessary to resort to insults without good cause.

 

[CptStern]

Which part of "Fallout takes place in a VAST wasteland" you do no understand? You are intelligent and resourceful, so you should understand it.

your snide remarks aside what the hell are you talking about? are you suggesting the game should have 500 square km of playable game areas? 1000 square KM? what is realistic enough for you to be satisfied with the word "vst" ..an entire continent mapped and detailed with every little nuance? that would literally take decades to model/fill with content, perhaps it should literally take days (real time) to travel from one end tothe other ..35 km DOES seem vast ..heck even Oblivion's 14km seemed huge relatively speaking

Be precise. I took "reinterpretation" as "revisionism of all game lore, gameplay etc.".

so in other words you're blaming me for your interpretation of what I said ..I was extremely clear, you just chose to ignore it:

oblivion and marrowind are essentially the same (1st/3rd person pov, sandbox world)

In Fallout's case they are. See: Core elements of Fallout

that's not at all what you said nor what i replied ..you keep rewriting what I said to suit your needs

LORE DOES NOT EQUAL GAMEPLAY ..isometric pov and turn based gameplay DOES NOT in any way have ANYTHING to do with lore ..lore is plot/background, gameplay is gameplay

No, it is not. It implies that Oblivion is Morrowind Deluxe.

again you are twisting what I said to inaccurately support your statements ...I CLEARLY said:

oblivion and marrowind are essentially the same (1st/3rd person pov, sandbox world)

Bethesda is making a game for fans of Fallout. They take an existing franchise with a large fanbase. This is not Elder Scrolls, their title.

if that were true it wouldnt be coming to consoles ..obviously they have to make concessions ..and they are NOT making this game for fallout fans exclusively ..the market is much larger now ..I'm willing to bet a big chunck of potential F3 customers have never played a fallout game

And the fanbase isn't simply a minority.

no however the vocal group that wants it exactly as it was is surely a minority ..but that's not really quantitative anways because unless we poll everyone we wont have an accurate picture

So, changing the setting, lore, atmosphere etc. is progression?

yes because that's EXACTLY what I said ...stop twisting my words ..NOT once did I stipulate what those changes may be

Fallout's presentation may have been limited by technology. Lore, setting, dialogues etc. were not.

what does that have to do with gameplay? I specifically said that combat/isometric pov was mostly like due to limited technology, not lore setting or dialogue

you've been agruing a classic straw man argument from the very beginning, attributing things that I never said or implied ..it makes for sloppy debating as we can never stay on track

You really try hard not to understand, right?

and you're going out of your way to be a jerk

We acknowledge progress of technology, and it is welcome, nobody protested against Fallout 3 using a 3D engine. We do oppose, however, raping the P&P RPG gameplay, changing and twisting backstory and setting (which will almost inevitably happen, seeing how Oblivion crapped on all Elder Scrolls role) and abandoning the 50s stylisation.

this hurts my brain ..for the love of god man WE KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THE GAME ..NOTHING ..and no complaints about 3d? I keep hearing isometric this isometric that ...how is that not a complaint?

In short, we don't want Oblivion with guns.

YOU do not want ..doesnt mean everyone else feels the same way

This "small vocal" minority is also known as "guaranteed sell market". You know that when it was stated that FO:T would help finance FO3, it became the most pre-ordered Interplay's game?

and when was that? surely not 2007 when PC games have the SMALLEST share of game sales ..it's a much much bigger playing field today .>I can almost guarentee the majority of sales will come from the console version

That doesn't rule out innovation and "staying true to previous games". See: C&C3.

i havent played C&C3 but it's not known for being innovative ..in fact it's know for the just the opposite: staying true to it's predecessors

Where did I say I wanted Fallout 3: Fallout Deluxe? Nowhere.

point out where exactly in the section you quoted where I say/suggest/imply that ..this section specifically:

..well they do but that doesnt make for a profitable game: make it exactly as it was before and sell limited amount of copies to die hard fans and little else

I'm still thinking you're half-drunk when typing.

I'll take that to mean you have no desire to pay me $100

 

[Tagaziel]

your snide remarks aside what the hell are you talking about? are you suggesting the game should have 500 square km of playable game areas? 1000 square KM? what is realistic enough for you to be satisfied with the word "vst" ..an entire continent mapped and detailed with every little nuance? that would literally take decades to model/fill with content, perhaps it should literally take days (real time) to travel from one end tothe other ..35 km DOES seem vast ..heck even Oblivion's 14km seemed huge relatively speaking

Simple. Worldmap. As old as... well, Fallout.

so in other words you're blaming me for your interpretation of what I said ..I was extremely clear, you just chose to ignore it:

Or you use words that are unclear.

LORE DOES NOT EQUAL GAMEPLAY ..isometric pov and turn based gameplay DOES NOT in any way have ANYTHING to do with lore ..lore is plot/background, gameplay is gameplay

The problem is that in Fallout's case it is connected. Fallout was, from the beginning, written as a P&P RPG inspired game, designed to emulate the feel of tabletop games. The gamepley is directly tied into the lore and background.

Evidence? Microforte took liberties with the gameplay, turning an RPG into a turn-based tactical game. And screwed up the plot and background on the way. Not to mention FOOS.

again you are twisting what I said to inaccurately support your statements ...I CLEARLY said:

Nope. That was far from clear.

Now, if you said:

oblivion and marrowind are essentially the same gameplay-wise (1st/3rd person pov, sandbox world)

Then that'd be clear.

if that were true it wouldnt be coming to consoles ..obviously they have to make concessions ..and they are NOT making this game for fallout fans exclusively ..the market is much larger now ..I'm willing to bet a big chunck of potential F3 customers have never played a fallout game

That is undeniable.

However, the Fallout hardcore fanbase will buy the game almost instantly if it's good. It does not matter if it gets ported or not (eg. C&C3), what matters is design. And that's what my (and a lot of other people) gripe is.

no however the vocal group that wants it exactly as it was is surely a minority ..but that's not really quantitative anways because unless we poll everyone we wont have an accurate picture

Apparently, you are also twisting my words to fit your argument. It's only natural.

We do not want a Fallout Deluxe. We want a Fallout 3 true to previous games.

what does that have to do with gameplay? I specifically said that combat/isometric pov was mostly like due to limited technology, not lore setting or dialogue

And in that you were wrong. Developers of the games had experience with FPP RPGs (Stonekeep for instance), and they CHOSE to make the game isometric/turn based to EMULATE THE P&P FEEL.

this hurts my brain ..for the love of god man WE KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THE GAME ..NOTHING ..and no complaints about 3d? I keep hearing isometric this isometric that ...how is that not a complaint?

We know how they treated Elder Scrolls. There is no indication that they won't do the same to Fallout.

and when was that? surely not 2007 when PC games have the SMALLEST share of game sales ..it's a much much bigger playing field today .>I can almost guarentee the majority of sales will come from the console version

So? Why should the fact of it being developed simultaneously for a console force it to leave the vein of previous Fallouts?

i havent played C&C3 but it's not known for being innovative ..in fact it's know for the just the opposite: staying true to it's predecessors

And that's the way Fallout should be done. Staying true to it's predecessors.

point out where exactly in the section you quoted where I say/suggest/imply that ..this section specifically:

You quoted it yourself. Thanks for saving me the effort.

I'll take that to mean you have no desire to pay me $100

Nope. I don't have 300 zł to spare.

Ignorant statement. Artistic style and engine capability are not the same thing. The way Oblivion looked was an artistic decision, not because they lacked Valve's patented "gritty realism" (TM) shader technology.
The design decisions you make depend largely on the setting you are trying to create. Sure, I would join you in the pitchfork-w
ealding mob if they ended up making F3 all shiny and clean looking, but its not likely to happen when your brief is "post-apocalyptic wasteland" .

This is the Fallout design. A picture says a thousand words.

They won't propably use these concept arts. However, if they manage to capture the atmosphere and style of Fallout, I'll be content.

...in your opinion. Personally, I thought that having people speak to you was a huge step forward when compared to plain text. So much more can be said by actors given the right direction and script than just by words alone, sure you might not like what is said or by whom or even how they say it, but to say that we should ignore the spoken word and go back to -essentially- to silent era is beyond even what I expect of you.

The "silent era" had more content than the "dunned" era. Morrowind's system was a good balance, as was Fallout's between both parts.

Also, the dubbing is limited by the paycheck of actors. Writing is only by diskspace.

I dont know what exactly you're trying to say here. Is it not big enough for you? You do understand that developers have work with restraints imposed by current technology and financial realities, dont you?

They can easily bypass the limitations with the worldmap system, which is as old as... well, Fallout. They don't have to make a 34 square kilometer map trying hard to emulate the real-life world.

Again, I dont see your issue, am I labouring under some misaprehension in thinking that the world of "Fallout" is a post-nuclear wasteland?
Wasteland definition :"Land that is desolate, barren, or ravaged.
A place, era, or aspect of life considered as lacking in spiritual, aesthetic, or other humanizing qualities; a vacuum: a cultural wasteland."
Or are you banging on about size again?

Yes, because nuclear bombs tend not to leave tightly packed (a 34 square kilometer is a tiny space) clusters of civilization behind. They leave vast, orradiated wastelands. Which is exactly what the nuked out California was.

As somebody already mentioned, the Fallout games are not that big. They are small isometric areas linked by a large-scale, two dimensional map.
Now, I know this is unlikely to happen, but there's nothing stopping them from doing the same with F3, just with large 3D areas instead of isometric.
Keep the overland map for transitions between areas, nothing wrong with that (just keep in mind that its very unlikely to happen).

Same thing here, I want nothing more.

And what's wrong with having a landscape littered with interesting things to explore?

Landscape littered with interesting things to explore indeed.

Up to this point I was going to say what an entertaining wing-nut you are, but in reality youre just a bit pathetic if you find it necessary to resort to insults without good cause.

That was just a natural response to you calling me a caveman.

 

[SAJ]

That was just a natural response to you calling me a caveman.

Show me where I directed an insult towards you personally that you were responding to and I will apologise.
If you cant then you should apologise.

 

[Shakermaker]

/clears throat
Change of subject

 

[Cerpin]

The Fallout games are overrated.

I said it.

 

[CptStern]

Simple. Worldmap. As old as... well, Fallout.

...modeled accurately entirely in 3d ........how long have you been playing video games? point to a single game that has an ENTIRE state modeled in 3d ..I'd expect you'd want no loading throughout as well? one single map accurately modeled after post apocolyptic california in every detail and to scale no less

Or you use words that are unclear.

or you fail to understand basic english:

I said this:

oblivion and marrowind are essentially the same (1st/3rd person pov, sandbox world)

this part of the statement ..

oblivion and marrowind are essentially the same..

is quantified by this part of the statement:

..(1st/3rd person pov, sandbox world)

what's there to misinterpret ..I clearly said they are in SAME in terms of their 1st/3rd person pov and sandbox world ..how can that possibly mean anything else except what it says?

The problem is that in Fallout's case it is connected. Fallout was, from the beginning, written as a P&P RPG inspired game, designed to emulate the feel of tabletop games. The gamepley is directly tied into the lore and background.

you are splitting hairs ..lore does NOT equal gameplay

Lore:

1. Accumulated facts, traditions, or beliefs about a particular subject.

Evidence? Microforte took liberties with the gameplay, turning an RPG into a turn-based tactical game. And screwed up the plot and background on the way. Not to mention FOOS.

you're using a game released 6 years ago by a company that's not bethesda to prove bethesda will do a shitty job? ...............ok

Nope. That was far from clear.

Now, if you said:

oblivion and marrowind are essentially the same gameplaywise (1st/3rd person pov, sandbox world)

Then that'd be clear.

so you want me to quantify my statement twice? once wasnt clear enough? ...you're just being stubborn man

That is undeniable.

you made that statement after I had made this statement:

..I'm willing to bet a big chunck of potential F3 customers have never played a fallout game

yet later in this same post you say this:

Why should the fact of it being developed simultaneously for a console force it to leave the vein of previous Fallouts?

clearly if consoles earn the biggest chunk of sales then it stands to reason the game will be made with them primarily in mind ..and we all know how popular crpgs are on consoles...

However, the Fallout hardcore fanbase will buy the game almost instantly if it's good.

meaningless ...their most crucial sell window is one month ..plenty of time for non hardcore fans to purchase the game ..clearly the bigger traget are the people who will purchase the game in the rest of the 29 days left in the month ..it has to be their target audience unless they want to target the casual fan instead of the hardcore ..so either way you're not getting what you want

It does not matter if it gets ported or not (eg. C&C3), what matters is design. And that's what my (and a lot of other people) gripe is.

gripe about WHAT? there is no information WHATSOEVER ..you're inventing gripes before they even become an issue

Apparently, you are also twisting my words to fit your argument. It's only natural.

that's the internets equivilent of saying "he started it!"

We do not want a Fallout Deluxe. We want a Fallout 3 true to previous games.

prepare to be disappointed

And in that you were wrong. Developers of the games had experience with FPP RPGs (Stonekeep for instance), and they CHOSE to make the game isometric/turn based to EMULATE THE P&P FEEL.

do I have to give you the definition of "lore" again? gameplay does not equal lore

We know how they treated Elder Scrolls. There is no indication that they won't do the same to Fallout.

yes because they're the same game ..slippery slope logical fallacy

You quoted it yourself. Thanks for saving me the effort.

already answered above but I will add that you just cant see the forest for the trees ..it's all there you just choose to purposefully misinterpret it to suit your needs

Nope. I don't have 300 zł to spare.

so you wont take my bet because you know I'm right

 

[Lucid]

Christ, Fallout fanboys are vicious.
*runs away*

 

[Shakermaker]

Let me quote myself for emphasis:

Change of subject

For those too lazy to click the link:

No Mutants Allowed is proud to present Black Isle Studio's Van Buren tech demo (Van Buren is BIS' cancelled Fallout 3 project), you can download it via our fileserver.

A few very basic notes:
1. Installation is basically unpacking the RAR file and clicking .exe. There is some waiting time the first time you load it.
2. Don't forget that this is a pre-alpha tech demo from 2003: the combat is pretty much unimplemented (sucky realtime only), the graphics are really basic. Also, most people will want to change the resolution, which can be done after the first time you run it. See instructions here
3. The file is a whopping 241 MB, but don't be disappointed that it doesn't offer a full night's worth of gameplay (though in true Fallout style, it offers a lot of different paths to victory).
4. Also in true Fallout style, the demo is very, very buggy. Expect frequent crashes.

Since this is probably the last time we will be posting on Van Buren, let me take this opportunity to send out a thank-you to the Van Buren staff and everyone who ever worked for Black Isle Studios. Gentlemen (and ladies); it was an honour and a privilege to watch you work and a pleasure to play your games. We salute you.


Link: Van Buren tech demo
Link: Van Buren tech demo guide

Hint for Grizzleh and Stern

 

[Max35]

Damn, why can't people just wait until the video actually comes OUT before making any type of judgement at all. I don't care what Beth did to TES, in terms of how it will effect Fallout. Simply because judging on something that isn't there is pointless. This arguing before any type of in-game media is released is just, er, pointless.

 

[Tagaziel]

...modeled accurately entirely in 3d ........how long have you been playing video games? point to a single game that has an ENTIRE state modeled in 3d ..I'd expect you'd want no loading throughout as well? one single map accurately modeled after post apocolyptic california in every detail and to scale no less

It seems we both fail to understand basic english. I said worldmap. As old as Fallout. Add two to two.

Fallout worldmap: 2D representation of the area. All visitable areas as well as random encounters are modeled in 3D, while the areas between are represented by the 2D worldmap.

or you fail to understand basic english:

Unlikely.

what's there to misinterpret ..I clearly said they are in SAME in terms of their 1st/3rd person pov and sandbox world ..how can that possibly mean anything else except what it says?

You enumerated the reasons, but not in the main part of the sentence, but in parentheses. Therefore it's open to interpretation.

you are splitting hairs ..lore does NOT equal gameplay

Lore:

1. Accumulated facts, traditions, or beliefs about a particular subject.

The problem here is that both elements are integral to Fallout design.

you're using a game released 6 years ago by a company that's not bethesda to prove bethesda will do a shitty job? ...............ok

That was proof that deviation from the lore and/or gameplay result in shitty Falloutlike games. Is it that hard to understand?

so you want me to quantify my statement twice? once wasnt clear enough? ...you're just being stubborn man

No, I want you to make it clear. That's all. Semantics aside...

clearly if consoles earn the biggest chunk of sales then it stands to reason the game will be made with them primarily in mind ..and we all know how popular crpgs are on consoles...

We all also know how popular RTS games are on consoles. Again, C&C3.

meaningless ...their most crucial sell window is one month ..plenty of time for non hardcore fans to purchase the game ..clearly the bigger traget are the people who will purchase the game in the rest of the 29 days left in the month ..it has to be their target audience unless they want to target the casual fan instead of the hardcore ..so either way you're not getting what you want

Again, why should the target audience mean a deviation from Fallout games? Just curious, I wonder how you can substantiate your point.

gripe about WHAT? there is no information WHATSOEVER ..you're inventing gripes before they even become an issue

This is based on logical reasoning, based on how they treated THEIR OWN FRANCHISE. Not to mention lack of experience in making classic RPGs.

prepare to be disappointed

At least we won't be passive suck ups.

do I have to give you the definition of "lore" again? gameplay does not equal lore

How many times do I have to rephrase that Fallout is BOTH GAMEPLAY *AND* LORE. One does not exist without the other in Fallout.

yes because they're the same game ..slippery slope logical fallacy

Deductive reasoning through analogy. Not a fallacy.

already answered above but I will add that you just cant see the forest for the trees ..it's all there you just choose to purposefully misinterpret it to suit your needs

eyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and whackos ever assembled in such numbers under a single "roof," so to speak, anywhere in the English-speaking world.

so you wont take my bet because you know I'm right

No, because I simply have *NO* cash.

 

[Kyorisu]

The problem here is that both elements are integral to Fallout design.

I certainly didn't think so when playing.

Again, why should the target audience mean a deviation from Fallout games? Just curious, I wonder how you can substantiate your point.

Because mass consumers don't want a game like fallout that want something that's simple, easy to play and isn't confusing, period. If you released a game with everything you've listed in this thread it would not sell well compared to a game engineered towards idiots.

This is based on logical reasoning, based on how they treated THEIR OWN FRANCHISE. Not to mention lack of experience in making classic RPGs.

You didn't like Oblivion? Well that's your own loss I loved it.

How many times do I have to rephrase that Fallout is BOTH GAMEPLAY *AND* LORE. One does not exist without the other in Fallout.

I call bullshit I loved fallout and not because I gave a damn about what was happening in the game world I liked the GAME PLAY. They are separate entities. Your applying your own twisted ideology towards a game we know nothing about.

What if Fallout 3 is everything you want? what then? you just wasted your time bickering with Stern for no reason. Wouldn't your time be better spent on the F3 forums? Face it no matter how much your pointlessly argue here you won't get your way. You have F1&2 be happy with those, change can be good too.

 

[Bob_Marley]

Christ, Fallout fanboys are vicious.
*runs away*

You missed the first 36 hours of the Fallout 3 forums opening on bethesda's website, didnt you. They thought there'd been an outbreak of internet rabies!

Anyway, Fallout 3 has been in development for some time now, things like TB vs RT and the stats system used are now as good as set in stone. I personally hold little hope of a sequil like the originals, but theres always a chance. But a very poor one. And debating them will get us no where (other than at each other's throats).

In my opinion FO3 will turn out more or less to be Oblivion with guns in a post apocalyptic setting. It will be hailed as one of the great games of the year and will sell exeptionally well, but in a couple of years I suspect it will lie dusty and forgotton as people who only played FO3 without 1 or 2 will move on to other games and the "hardcore" fallout fans go back to FO1 & 2.

 

[jverne]

i agree to a certain part with that mikael guy. I'd rather have a world map like in previous games, but that doesn't mean it has to be 2d. You can make it sort of like in civ 4 world, 3d but vast and not too detailed. I'd hate if they stuck the whole thing on the size of oblivion. I want that feeling of being alone in the middle of ****ing nowhere, far away from everything.

The detailed places could be like oblivion.Lots of details and other stuff.

 

[SAJ]

You missed the first 36 hours of the Fallout 3 forums opening on bethesda's website, didnt you. They thought there'd been an outbreak of internet rabies!

Christ, I can imagine! That must have fun to watch (in a way).

In my opinion FO3 will turn out more or less to be Oblivion with guns in a post apocalyptic setting. It will be hailed as one of the great games of the year and will sell exeptionally well, but in a couple of years I suspect it will lie dusty and forgotton as people who only played FO3 without 1 or 2 will move on to other games and the "hardcore" fallout fans go back to FO1 & 2.

Dont forget that if Bethesda use the same engine as Oblivion, there will be oportunities galore for mods. Pretty much everything will be up for changing; dialogue, missions, graphics, sounds, you name it.
Then we will be able to see if the die-hard Fallout fans can do anything more than olympic-level grumbling

 

[theotherguy]

Having never played Fallout, and wanting to play a post-apocalyptic FPS, I would be much much happier if it were oblivion-styled.

 

[Tagaziel]

I certainly didn't think so when playing.

You didn't think. The developers did. Check the profiles on NMA.

Because mass consumers don't want a game like fallout that want something that's simple, easy to play and isn't confusing, period. If you released a game with everything you've listed in this thread it would not sell well compared to a game engineered towards idiots.

There's already plenty of simple, easy games to play on the market, and if Fallout 3 is going to be in that vein, then it WILL be a failure.

Maybe then Obsidian will get the licence at Pete Hines' garage sale.

You didn't like Oblivion? Well that's your own loss I loved it.

De gustabimus non disputantum est. HOWEVER. Ask an Elder Scrolls fan that played the games at least since Morrowind. Ask him about Sithis. Watch him snap.

I call bullshit I loved fallout and not because I gave a damn about what was happening in the game world I liked the GAME PLAY. They are separate entities. Your applying your own twisted ideology towards a game we know nothing about.

Twisted ideology? Hardly. I'm just basing off what's been said by developers. Fallout was designed from the ground up as a P&P-like cRPG with a 50's stylisation - which includes lore and background.

Now, is it that hard to understand the connection?

What if Fallout 3 is everything you want? what then?

Then Bethesda will have lived up to the potential, NMA will explode in joy and all shall be forgiven.

you just wasted your time bickering with Stern for no reason.

I'm a Fallout fan.

Wouldn't your time be better spent on the F3 forums?

Kharn and team are already there and they contribute. I don't have enough patience.

Face it no matter how much your pointlessly argue here you won't get your way.

Again, I won't at the least be a passive suckup.

You have F1&2 be happy with those, change can be good too.

Typical response. The problem is that there are those that care about the integrity of storyline and setting and will not relent.

Then we will be able to see if the die-hard Fallout fans can do anything more than olympic-level grumbling

You do realize that the Fallout community has a long tradition of modding games?

In my opinion FO3 will turn out more or less to be Oblivion with guns in a post apocalyptic setting. It will be hailed as one of the great games of the year and will sell exeptionally well, but in a couple of years I suspect it will lie dusty and forgotton as people who only played FO3 without 1 or 2 will move on to other games and the "hardcore" fallout fans go back to FO1 & 2.

Exactly. Bob, I love you.

 

[Bob_Marley]

Dont forget that if Bethesda use the same engine as Oblivion, there will be oportunities galore for mods. Pretty much everything will be up for changing; dialogue, missions, graphics, sounds, you name it.
Then we will be able to see if the die-hard Fallout fans can do anything more than olympic-level grumbling

True, and I'd love to see something like what the Jagged Alliance community pulled of with v1.13 of JA2 (as well as the incredible Urban Chaos total conversion) but I still have my doubts. If it can be done I think it would be fantastic, so heres to hope.

 

[Cerpin]

It's pretty funny that all this anger will amount to nothing. Bethesda will make Fallout 3, and people who haven't heard about Fallout before will base their impression on the series by that game. And there's nothing you can do about it.

I can only hope that it's an excellent game. But you guys would still hate it, right?

 

[Tagaziel]

I can only hope that it's an excellent game. But you guys would still hate it, right?

Another common misconception. If Bethesda makes a sequel that stays true to the originals in terms of background story, stylisation, dark humor, gameplay and genre (SPECIAL), then there will be joy.

 

[Cerpin]

I'm glad you're not totally blinded by nostalgia. Still, by those terms it's pretty hard to make a game that's not exactly like the other Fallout games - a game we're not going to get.

 

[jverne]

i really hope they made it in "isometric" 3d. and keept the world map (like i described it earlier). As for dialogs, they should have both. Voice an text. Because i doubt the actors would swear that much. But i hope that the text dialog interface is more reader friendly, because it's very straining to read those small text with that much crap all over the screen.

like i said, oblivion with guns would suck, even i it was a novelty. I'd rather they spent more time making game play than graphics.

There should be no turn based combat. They should make real time or at least like X-com style (slow,normal,fast). Because it's more realistic and fun.

 

[Kyorisu]

[stuff]

This is only a video game I'd hate to see the stance you take on serious matters.

 

[Tagaziel]

I also think a first-person viewpoint would be pretty good for improving immersion. The top-down view was chosen probably because of technical limitations,

For the last ****ing time, the top-down perspective was used because Fallout was to be as close to tabletop RPGs as possible. FPP RPGs weren't impossible, and the team HAD EXPERIENCE doing them (eg. Stonekeep).

NOT technical limitations. Stylisation choice.

This is only a video game I'd hate to see the stance you take on serious matters.

Well, rivers are deep and store much.

Deus Ex, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., or hell, even System Shock 2 and tell me that's not moody as hell.

Played those three. One of my favourite games, close to Fallout's position even.

There should be no turn based combat. They should make real time or at least like X-com style (slow,normal,fast). Because it's more realistic and fun.

Real time combat doesn't make game more realistic. Remember Jagged Alliance 2?

Also,

 

[CptStern]

In my opinion FO3 will turn out more or less to be Oblivion with guns in a post apocalyptic setting. It will be hailed as one of the great games of the year and will sell exeptionally well, but in a couple of years I suspect it will lie dusty and forgotton as people who only played FO3 without 1 or 2 will move on to other games and the "hardcore" fallout fans go back to FO1 & 2.

Exactly. Bob, I love you.

so then why are you complaining? you've already made up your mind that you're not going to like "oblivion with guns" ..so what's the point of complaining and saying they'll **** it up when you wont be happy with it anyways? F3 will NOT have an isometric pov and will NOT be a crpg ..so what's the problem seeing as how since you wont like the outcome you wont buy the game? at this point you're just pissing in the wind

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

update yo

http://fallout.bethsoft.com/

 

[Gray Fox]

Frack, thats cool.

Oh and Stern make an Art thread already, we have been asking you to make one for the last fracking 3 years.

 

[CptStern]

I havent produced anything new in at least 5 years ..well at least that wasnt related to medical equipment ..I dont think many of you would be interested in drawings of gynecology equipment

 

[Stigmata]

I havent produced anything new in at least 5 years ..well at least that wasnt related to medical equipment ..I dont think many of you would be interested in drawings of gynecology equipment

You had me at gynecology.

 

[Max35]

I think the best decision would be a hybrid of old Fallout games/new ideas. I would like the first person view for exploration (immersion), but I wouldn't mind the isometric view for combat situations. I do agree that Beth should adhere to quite a few of the Fallout staples, otherwise what would be the point? But, I would also prefer to have new and innovative design as well.

Also, that newest concept piece is friggin' awesome.

 

[DEATH eVADER]

2. Indoor - Outdoor switching, please no loading screens I hate that.

Its theoretically possible, considering Cryengine will do away with pratically any loading due to Polygon occlusion tech. I'm sure with the money bethesda has made with its last IP, I'm sure they can invest in better technology.

 

[French Ninja]

De gustabimus non disputantum est. HOWEVER. Ask an Elder Scrolls fan that played the games at least since Morrowind. Ask him about Sithis. Watch him snap.

He's the god of evil deeds and emos right?
:|

Oh, and Bethesda does a good enough job ruining their own lore. Cyrodiil was supposed to be a jungle full of animal cults, highly decorated House Guards, river dragons and scantily clad Romanesque women.

We got Europe with a bland polytheistic catholic church, every fantasy creature cliche and ice queens with personalities and the believability of a HL2 zombie.

I won't be surprised if we see computers and walking giant mechs.

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

 

[Bob_Marley]

Interesting. That pintle mounted weapon on the trolley thing (front right) looks like a Mk.19 automatic grenade launcher. And the mounted gun on the top right is definetly a Browning .50

Modern, RL weapons for FO3?

Sod that, I wants meh ray guns!