Fallout 3 teaser next month, new concept art!

[Absinthe]

Oh no, I'm disagreeing witht the Prince of Space! My knowledge of art direction must indeed be shallow. Here I was thinking that putting the words "ahslandic" and "dwemer" before nouns clarified nothing, but hey. What do I know?

I'm attacking your inability to make sense. I'm not attacking the argument that small details define a game's atmosphere. That you think this is an easy job shows how ignorant you are, especially with games that are grounded in reality but then progress into fiction (ie. Gears of War, Fallout, Half-Life). Fantasy games need to struggle with cohesion. Games exhibiting aesthetics more similar to our own world need to craft a delicate balance between what we recognize from our own experience and what is new, twisted, and alien. That is far easier said than done, and any shortcomings in that regard are not products of developer idiocy.

 

[PriNcE oF SpAcE]

Oh no, I'm disagreeing witht the Prince of Space! My knowledge of art direction must indeed be shallow. Here I was thinking that putting the words "ahslandic" and "dwemer" before nouns clarified nothing, but hey. What do I know?

unlike others I don't have a problem with disagreeing with other people or even change my stance if I'm proven wrong. I'm not the one who started calling people names now am I?

oh and if you don't think putting Ashlandic and dwemer infront of nouns clarifies anything then you obviously don't now anything. it clarifies exactly THAT, the origins of the said things(and it's differenses from other things of the same type). what you wanted me to go into ellaborate details on what makes it one type or the other!?...listen I'm sure that mikael and anyone who paid attention during Morrowind will know just what kind of details those names will entail.

anyways that's beside the point...what prompted me calling you ignorant in regards to art direction in games was that you called details(however minute they might be) trivial and said they had no bearing on atmosphere and aesthetics...that's a grossly ignorant statement, anyone with sense and knowledge of art direction will tell you that.

I'm attacking your inability to make sense. I'm not attacking the argument that small details define a game's atmosphere. That you think this is an easy job shows how ignorant you are, especially with games that are grounded in reality but then progress into fiction (ie. Gears of War, Fallout, Half-Life). Fantasy games need to struggle with cohesion. Games exhibiting aesthetics more similar to our own world need to craft a delicate balance between what we recognize from our own experience and what is new, twisted, and alien. That is far easier said than done, and any shortcomings in that regard are not products of developer idiocy.

I fail to see how me seeing it as easy makes me ignorant...it should be the other way around.:dork:

personally I find that pure fantasy worlds(of the serious kind) are harder to nail as they still have to have a sense of believability but without any actual real-life refferences...

I agree with your points of the problems involved in the different art directions. BUT it's kinda limited how alien fallout actually is...as I've said before you've got art-deco, with plenty of refference material, and you got post nuclear environments, sadly also with plenty of refference(e.g. Hiroshima/Nagasaki and chernobyl). you take the art-deco stuff...and stuff it in post nuclear-desert-wasteland make it look old rusty and banged up(again plenty of refferense material)...and voil? you've got what? like 45% of fallouts art direction handed on a platter...now add futuristic gizmos and mutants... I'm sorry but I honestly don't see that as particularly challenging art direction.(especially not for a company like Bethesda)

on that point though...I need to point something out in my originally statement that might not have been entirely clear... what I didn't get why people would be worried about BETHESDA getting the art-direction wrong(not just anyone) considering their past track records these guys clearly know how to make strong cohesive art direction in their games(so I guess the whole morrowind discussion serves some purpose afterall)...really it shouldn't be hard for these guys to get it right.

oh and of course it's easier said than done...everything is:dozey:

 

[Tagaziel]

Absinthe, I <3 you.

now you're just arguing semantics and personal opinion just for the sake of arguing AND it does still does NOT change the truthfullness of my statement...look Pearlman could do his best ****ing voice acting ever on "Big rigsver the road racing" and it would STILL NOT make it a good game! that is not opinion that is FACT! stop arguing it.

I simply stated a fact that Ron Perlman's voice acting was one of the things that made Fallout memorable. I didn't state that it was what decided that Fallout was a great game, as there were much more elements.

FFS I KNOW that post-apocalyptic isn't an "art form" but in the game industry it's a valid name for an "art direction" and if you even bothered reading what I was saying you'd see that I explained why I'd call it that...from art-deco and onward, you said it yourself the future vision of america, if you want descidedly art-deco go look at bioshock it has it from wall to wall. and no it isn't hard to get...I'm looking at the cathedral...still not hard.

Out of curiosity, how much experience do you have with creating concept art
for original games and works?

even if you were rigth and art deco is the only thing in fallout...then what's so hard about it? you have an existant art form, well documented since the 30's...now you take said art form and dump it in a post nuclear wasteland...

Um, the world has evolved since the 1950s and Fallout also had to convincingly create an architectural style that was predominantly Art Deco but also had evolved for 120+ years. And later make it look convincingly nuked out all the while maintatining a look similiar to 50s visions of post apocalyptic future.

uhm...if you once again actually read what I wrote....you'd see that I actually looked into myself...it's not exactly my fault that there isn't any good screenshots of FOBOS around...or that I haven't gotten further into tactics than I have(the screenshots aviable are from similar looking areas that I'm in)...I figured that since you're such a fallout buff maybe you could post some screenshots proving your point...but I see that you'd rather be a jackass about it, good call

No shit, lack of screenshots

actually I never found the simply masonry buildings in fallout to be distinctively art-deco but generally lacking in detail...however since you mentioned it I booted up tactics and actually what's left of masonry buildings there are more art-deco than the ones in fallout simply due to the fact that you can make out the decorative stone carvings...I still don't see much divergence to be honest...

Simple masonry buildings? How about the decorative cornerstones of buildings, which are pretty unique to Art Deco? The general look of the buildings? Cars?

*snip*

Absinthe <3

 

[PriNcE oF SpAcE]

Absinthe, I <3 you.

get a room.

I think we're done here...we're not getting anywhere as it seems you have already got it in your head to disagree and argue everypoint even when I'magreeing with you.

I simply stated a fact that Ron Perlman's voice acting was one of the things that made Fallout memorable. I didn't state that it was what decided that Fallout was a great game, as there were much more elements.

and I simply stated in response to the original poster that it wasn't any gaurantee that it was going to be a good game...like I said stop arguing it.

Um, the world has evolved since the 1950s and Fallout also had to convincingly create an architectural style that was predominantly Art Deco but also had evolved for 120+ years. And later make it look convincingly nuked out all the while maintatining a look similiar to 50s visions of post apocalyptic future.

No shit, lack of screenshots

I know there's screenshots of the game...I went to all those sites... what was lacking was any good screenshots that would shed light on your supposed claims that FOBOS got the art direction wrong....none of those screenshots does a very good job at showcasing the environment as they're mainly blurry screenshots focused on the player character setting zombies on fire from a pov that show you very little else...I can't tell from those screenshots that the art style is particularly "wrong" I can tell you that there's shitty graphics though .

Simple masonry buildings? How about the decorative cornerstones of buildings, which are pretty unique to Art Deco? The general look of the buildings? Cars?

could you maybe provide a screenshots of the cornerstones your talking about...we might not be reffering to the same general buildings here...because the only cornerstones I can remember are simply another colour and slightly purtruding...something that is also used besides art-deco. also like I said tactics actually have those...art-deco carvings on the buildings on corners and windows with much more detail but there's not much left of those buildings hehe.

Absinthe <3

get a room.

also out of curiosity...why exactly did you bring up the morrowind refference? I was thinking you misunderstood what I was saying...but I said what I said in case you were actually trying to knock morrowind, in which case I stand by calling it moronic.

 

[CptStern]

Fallout was based on 1950s, Art Deco most importantly

art deco? I've only played parts of the first game but I always thought it was based on Pop art from the 40's and 50's seeing as how Art deco died in the late 30's ...and it was decorative art more than anything else: architecture, furniture ..however advertising design mimiced it's style but it was characterized by simplistic abstract figures - pipboy is clearly influenced by 1950's pop art or advertising illustration from the era

 

[Tagaziel]

art deco? I've only played parts of the first game but I always thought it was based on Pop art from the 40's and 50's seeing as how Art deco died in the late 30's ...and it was decorative art more than anything else: architecture, furniture ..however advertising design mimiced it's style but it was characterized by simplistic abstract figures - pipboy is clearly influenced by 1950's pop art or advertising illustration from the era

Whoops, forgot to mention that too. However, the architecture is primarily Art Deco. Of course keep in mind what I said, this is the retrofuture 120 years later.

Some references:

Compare the car (50s, inspired by Art Deco)

http://www.duckandcover.cx/gallery/albums/Fallout_Bonus_Art/017.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a3/1956_Nash_Ambassador_sedan_front.jpg

The Cathedral and comparisons:

http://www.duckandcover.cx/gallery/albums/Fallout_Bonus_Art/021.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Buffalo_City_Hall.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:..._York_City_viewed_from_the_Public_Library.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Fisher_Building_Detroit.jpg

And, of course, Necropolis/Bakersfield:

http://www.duckandcover.cx/gallery/displayimage.php?album=7&pos=38

I know there's screenshots of the game...I went to all those sites... what was lacking was any good screenshots that would shed light on your supposed claims that FOBOS got the art direction wrong....none of those screenshots does a very good job at showcasing the environment as they're mainly blurry screenshots focused on the player character setting zombies on fire from a pov that show you very little else...I can't tell from those screenshots that the art style is particularly "wrong" I can tell you that there's shitty graphics though .

Sadly, the FO:BOS site is unavailable. You might want to check DaC for the 20 things wrong about FOBOS article.

also out of curiosity...why exactly did you bring up the morrowind refference? I was thinking you misunderstood what I was saying...but I said what I said in case you were actually trying to knock morrowind, in which case I stand by calling it moronic.

Because your comment was so generic it could be used to mean any other game than Fallout.

 

[PriNcE oF SpAcE]

Because your comment was so generic it could be used to mean any other game than Fallout.

you obviously didn't get what I was saying then... I simply compared the original fallouts environments with tactics'...with how far I've gotten in the games so far it's the same.

 

[SAJ]

I dont think you can accurately say that Fallout is art-deco, its art-style is a lazy hodge podge that takes in many influences from Buck Rogers to Mad Max.
Stern is right to point out that Art Deco's influence was over by the time Fallout's universe diverges from our own, and although the Art-Deco legacy was strong in that period -buildings not keeping up with annual fashions- not everything designed in the 1930's is Art-Deco.

If Fallout can be described as having a specific and consistant style (which I doubt) it could be best described as a post-apocalyptic/dystopian branch of Retro-futurism (quite a mouthful).
Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retro_futurism

 

[Tagaziel]

If Fallout can be described as having a specific and consistant style (which I doubt) it could be best described as a post-apocalyptic/dystopian branch of Retro-futurism (quite a mouthful).

Primarily inspired by Art Deco, Googie etc.

 

[Kyorisu]

Fighting about a games art direction, this is truly a sad day.

 

[Gunner]

Fighting about a games art direction, this is truly a sad day.

It must be your first day on the internet. Either that or you just enjoy trolling.

This isn't Quake 6 we're talking about, it's Fallout. You've probably never even played the games, am I right?

 

[PriNcE oF SpAcE]

I dont think you can accurately say that Fallout is art-deco, its art-style is a lazy hodge podge that takes in many influences from Buck Rogers to Mad Max.
Stern is right to point out that Art Deco's influence was over by the time Fallout's universe diverges from our own, and although the Art-Deco legacy was strong in that period -buildings not keeping up with annual fashions- not everything designed in the 1930's is Art-Deco.

If Fallout can be described as having a specific and consistant style (which I doubt) it could be best described as a post-apocalyptic/dystopian branch of Retro-futurism (quite a mouthful).
Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retro_futurism

thank you so much...that's basically what I've been saying all along...except I couldn't coin the name for the style.

 

[Thunderclap]

Gentlemen, it would appear that a a massive amount of information with even larger implications has been released:

http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=711874

Even the biggest Bethesda haters seem to be, if not pleased, less sure that Bethesda will rape Fallout. A very intriguing read, I particularly found the character generation creative and hilarious (you'll know the part I'm thinking about when you see it).

 

[PriNcE oF SpAcE]

Gentlemen, it would appear that a a massive amount of information with even larger implications has been released:

http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=711874

Even the biggest Bethesda haters seem to be, if not pleased, less sure that Bethesda will rape Fallout. A very intriguing read, I particularly found the character generation creative and hilarious (you'll know the part I'm thinking about when you see it).

still seems like a fallout fanboy bitchfest because they can't handle change...:hmph:

 

[Thunderclap]

still seems like a fallout fanboy bitchfest because they can't handle change...:hmph:

Please, let's try and put a positive spin on things can't we?

 

[PriNcE oF SpAcE]

Please, let's try and put a positive spin on things can't we?

tell that to the fanboys bitching.:angel:

I'm positive bethesda will make a better game.

 

[Lucid]

Please, let's try and put a positive spin on things can't we?

I agree, and I'll start by saying that Fallout is the worst game series ever made... or atleast the most overrated atleast.
And it's really not worth waging internet wars over, can you believe that people have died because of this game?!

...What?

Um, what are you doing with that rifle?... oh sh-

 

[chocolatethief]

In case anyone cares:

 

[Somefool]

The magazine scans are out huzzah!! They're on nma's front page if anyone cares. >.>

 

[Lucid]

Sweet it IS going to be an FPS!

Hope is restored.

 

[DeusExMachina]

And thousands of Fallout fans loaded their guns...

 

[PriNcE oF SpAcE]

looks good so far...

 

[Combine Hybrid]

The Behemoth? is it some kind of uber version of mutants?

 

[DeusExMachina]

Maybe based on the Gehenna concept art.

 

[Absinthe]

The magazine scans are out huzzah!! They're on nma's front page if anyone cares. >.>

I love the scans.

...But I ****ing hate NMA. It's one of the worst fan communities I've ever laid eyes upon. So much of its membership is made up of crazy, rabid, elitist jerks who spend more time bitching than offering up constructive criticism. Ignoring all the "Bethesda sux" mantras and their overwhelming tendency to accuse dissenters of not being "true Fallout fans", maybe there would be some worth to all their minging if they actually took some time to make sense.

It's like they want a new, innovative Fallout game, but it needs to be exactly the same as all the previous ones. The abandoning of antiquated isometric movement? UNACCEPTABLE. The switch to 3D? OUTRAGEOUS. Over half of the community has seemingly already decided not to buy Fallout 3 after one magazine preview. For God's sake, I've seen rants against the in-jokes of "G.O.A.T." and "You're Special" with so much unnecessary venom. It's like they've lost touch with their sense of humor as well as sanity. They're rude, isolated, nostalgic to a fault, and condescending to both Bethesda as well as any fan that disagrees with them.

**** them. Let them wallow around in their stupid "lol Oblivion" jokes, as if it was the worst game ever made. I'm quite optimistic with what I've seen thus far. They can wait another ten years for their dream game if they really want to.

 

[Unfocused]

FPS? Hmm... We'll it's not like it would feel like the previous Fallouts anyway due to it being developed by someone else, new engine etc., so I guess it might as well change perspective.

I wonder what will combat look like.

 

[PvtRyan]

And thousands of Fallout fans loaded their guns...

If they subsequently point it at their skull and blow their brains out, I'd say: go right ahead!

That, and what Absinthe said. Rabid fanboys are awful.

 

[PriNcE oF SpAcE]

I love the scans.

...But I ****ing hate NMA. It's one of the worst fan communities I've ever laid eyes upon. So much of its membership is made up of crazy, rabid, elitist jerks who spend more time bitching than offering up constructive criticism. Ignoring all the "Bethesda sux" mantras and their overwhelming tendency to accuse dissenters of not being "true Fallout fans", maybe there would be some worth to all their minging if they actually took some time to make sense.

It's like they want a new, innovative Fallout game, but it needs to be exactly the same as all the previous ones. The abandoning of antiquated isometric movement? UNACCEPTABLE. The switch to 3D? OUTRAGEOUS. Over half of the community has seemingly already decided not to buy Fallout 3 after one magazine preview. For God's sake, I've seen rants against the in-jokes of "G.O.A.T." and "You're Special" with so much unnecessary venom. It's like they've lost touch with their sense of humor as well as sanity. They're rude, isolated, nostalgic to a fault, and condescending to both Bethesda as well as any fan that disagrees with them.

**** them. Let them wallow around in their stupid "lol Oblivion" jokes, as if it was the worst game ever made. I'm quite optimistic with what I've seen thus far. They can wait another ten years for their dream game if they really want to.

couldn't have put it better.

 

[StardogChampion]

It'll probably look aged by the time it's released in 08.

 

[Gargantou]

Stardog, you mean 2009?
If I recall correctly, Oblivion was originally supposed to come out in 2k5 but didnt come out until 2k6 so.

 

[Tagaziel]

...But I ****ing hate NMA. It's one of the worst fan communities I've ever laid eyes upon. So much of its membership is made up of crazy, rabid, elitist jerks who spend more time bitching than offering up constructive criticism. Ignoring all the "Bethesda sux" mantras and their overwhelming tendency to accuse dissenters of not being "true Fallout fans", maybe there would be some worth to all their minging if they actually took some time to make sense.

You know, it's all because, well... we, like, kept the game alive throughout the ten year period? Without NMA and DAC there would pretty much be no Fallout fan base at all and Fallout would be a cool, old school game, soon forgotten.

Also, are you a professional misreader? We kept up the Fallout 3 suggestions forum ever since Fallout 2 was released, actively supported Fallout: Tactics when it seemed like a good, albeit different game AND the development of Van Buren.

Besides, it's better to be a cynical bastard than an apologetic suckup.

It's like they want a new, innovative Fallout game, but it needs to be exactly the same as all the previous ones.

*yaaawn*

Typical baseless statement. Van Buren was much, much different from Fallouts 1 and 2, taking place in a completely different location, with different UI, different characters, different themes etc. Yet it was warmly welcomed by NMA and all Fallout fans and we considered it a worthy successor to the lefacy of Fallout.

Because, you know, we want a game that stays true to previous titles, not their remake.

The abandoning of antiquated isometric movement? UNACCEPTABLE.

Yes, I know you might not like it. Generally we want isometrics because it allows for a much more tactical approach to combat rather mindless clickfests a'la Oblivion.

However, the lack of an isometric perspective is currently the least of our concerns.

The switch to 3D? OUTRAGEOUS.

Yay, another classic not-funny joke.

If this was true, then we'd have flamed Van Buren. But we did not. Why? We don't hate 3D, we are concerned whether or not can 3D accurately portray what was done in 2D in Fallout 1 and 2. Check what T-Ray said, they had to redesign the T-51 for Van Buren because the original models used in the intro had hilarious ammounts of clipping.

Over half of the community has seemingly already decided not to buy Fallout 3 after one magazine preview.

Because, you know, Bethesda isn't planning to release anything else for the time being, so we have to base on this preview. This isn't VALVe, this is Beth (and Sparta).

For God's sake, I've seen rants against the in-jokes of "G.O.A.T." and "You're Special" with so much unnecessary venom. It's like they've lost touch with their sense of humor as well as sanity. They're rude, isolated, nostalgic to a fault, and condescending to both Bethesda as well as any fan that disagrees with them.

Well, if you make an ass of yourself on our forums and post unsubstantiated claims about Fallout 3 and/or flame us you won't be treated fairly.

This comes from people who had to endure the bastardization of Fallout with FOT and FOPOS. You never were one of us, you'll never know.

**** them. Let them wallow around in their stupid "lol Oblivion" jokes, as if it was the worst game ever made. I'm quite optimistic with what I've seen thus far. They can wait another ten years for their dream game if they really want to.

Well, Absinthe, **** you too, and have fun.

It's kind of fun to watch mindless sycopantic Bethesda fanboys running around attempting to discredit people who kept the franchise alive, becoming in the process "glittering gems of hatred".

Especially when you know you're right, as the original Fallout developers share your sentiments.

That said, Fallout 3 will propably be a good, enjoyable game. But it won't be Fallout for the most part. If Bethesda named it "Wastelands" in a nod to Wasteland 1988, we wouldn't say a word and would cover the development of the game happily.

But they named it Fallout. That means they have obliged themselves to follow the aesthetic and backstory set by Fallout 1 and Fallout 2, something they have yet to fully do.

 

[Absinthe]

Now I'm an apologetic, Bethesda sycophant because I don't fall in line with the cool-school kids at NMA.

You're right. It is very predictable and boring.

 

[KagePrototype]

It's kind of fun to watch mindless sycopantic Bethesda fanboys running around attempting to discredit people who kept the franchise alive, becoming in the process "glittering gems of hatred".

Why do you assume people who hate NMA are Bethesda fanboys?

What the NMA community collectively idealises as a fallout sequel, wouldn't appeal to anyone outside of this same small and hardcore fanbase. We all understand this, and I'm sure you're able to as well; what annoys us is that a large collection of NMA users simply refuse to face reality, and would rather stay protected in their own little bubbles of fanboyism by writing shit like this to reinforce their silly little opinions on what Fallout 3 should be like, as well as lash out at anyone who tries to sway them otherwise. It's just one of those horrible, horrible internet communities that runs entirely on nostalgia, because it's all they have left.

 

[Absinthe]

Bingo. NMA has a reputation for being feverishly defensive, and not without good reason. I've seen long, well-thought supporting arguments for change in the franchise only to be savagely ripped apart. Not through logic, but through sheer, frenzied, group mentality. And if somebody would even dare to point out how cloistered a lot of its members are, they're branded as trolls, idiots, or unworthy fans.

NMA may have helped Fallout live a longer life, but I certainly can't credit them with my initiation to the series. Nor can I say I've seen NMA as a force that will expand the series to a larger player base, which is what is required if it's going to endure another generation. That requires changes, and what I've seen thus far is both welcome, refreshing, and doesn't compromise the feeling of the previous titles.

Dismissing a game outright on its first preview - outside of genre preferences - is ridiculous. You've gotten a few pages of mag scans and one brief tour through NMA will greet you with rant after rant about how VATS sucks, Liam Neeson sucks, tired jokes about Daedric weapons, personal condemnations of Bethesda, and gallons of piss and vinegar. If you think this is in any way healthy or constructive, then you need to venture outside of your shrine.

Bethesda does not need NMA's blessing. And seeing the way that community has behaved for years, it would come as no surprise to me if they don't give two shits about your opinions. Hell, might as well find a new audience and abandon the old one if they're going to be so crabby and unpleasant to converse with. There are some things they will not budge on, and there are some things where they will appreciate user feedback. You've not even played the ****ing game and already your community is beginning to reek of fire and brimstone. Hell, front page news links to an alleged "clear-cut" opinion of Fallout 3, then directs the reader to a whiny rant over a single preview with no gameplay experience.

Maybe if I saw some tangible or observable reasons as to why Fallout 3 is so horribly misguided, I'd be sympathetic. Instead I just hear vague exclamations about how "IT'S NOT FALLOUT", when as far as I can tell this is just a bunch of devotees who wouldn't give two shits if Black Isle was heading up the exact same game.

 

[Lucid]

Sounds like NMA is filled with nothing but elitist c*nts to me.

 

[Tagaziel]

Bingo. NMA has a reputation for being feverishly defensive, and not without good reason. I've seen long, well-thought supporting arguments for change in the franchise only to be savagely ripped apart. Not through logic, but through sheer, frenzied, group mentality. And if somebody would even dare to point out how cloistered a lot of its members are, they're branded as trolls, idiots, or unworthy fans.

No one has yet given good arguments as to why Fallout should be changed the way Bethesda wants it. As usual, you attempt to twist anything concerning NMA to fit your twisted views.

We do not oppose change, as crazy as it sounds, as long as it's properly explained and argumented. 95% of people who post said "change rants" haven't researched Fallout properly (eg. consulted interviews with the developers, developer's quotes and setting) and as such just beg to be shot down.

Out of curiosity, just how much did you play Fallout and how much do you know about it's setting?

NMA may have helped Fallout live a longer life, but I certainly can't credit them with my initiation to the series. Nor can I say I've seen NMA as a force that will expand the series to a larger player base, which is what is required if it's going to endure another generation. That requires changes, and what I've seen thus far is both welcome, refreshing, and doesn't compromise the feeling of the previous titles.

Larger playerbase can be catered to without compromising the Fallout aesthetic, feel and gameplay. What we get so far may be refreshing, but it's still empty promises. The journalists got a 1 hour preview and didn't even get to play the game. This is one of the reasons we are so hostile.

Dismissing a game outright on its first preview - outside of genre preferences - is ridiculous.

As is shouting that change is good basing on the first preview and empty promises.

You've gotten a few pages of mag scans and one brief tour through NMA will greet you with rant after rant about how VATS sucks,

Shows how much you read. VATS isn't discredited because it sucks, it's discredited because aside from a few hollow sentences nothing is explained about it.

Liam Neeson sucks,

Amusing. So far almost no one condemned Liam Neeson. Remember, previous titles had pretty known people cast.

tired jokes about Daedric weapons,

Out of 30 pages of the thread there are about five jokes. So much for abundance of tired jokes.

personal condemnations of Bethesda,

Well, people are entitled to their opinion, right?

and gallons of piss and vinegar.

Seeing how much time you devote to finding it, you must really like said products.

Bethesda does not need NMA's blessing.

Amusing. FOBOS and FOT didn't need the fanbase's blessing too.

And seeing the way that community has behaved for years, it would come as no surprise to me if they don't give two shits about your opinions.

Yes, because keeping the franchise alive is "not worth shit(TM)".

Hell, might as well find a new audience and abandon the old one if they're going to be so crabby and unpleasant to converse with. There are some things they will not budge on, and there are some things where they will appreciate user feedback.

Bethesda listening to fans? That's really, really new! Tell me oh great wise man, when did they actually listen? When promising a hardcore roleplaying TES IV to the fans and hearing voices of satisfaction at the notion?

You've not even played the ****ing game and already your community is beginning to reek of fire and brimstone. Hell, front page news links to an alleged "clear-cut" opinion of Fallout 3, then directs the reader to a whiny rant over a single preview with no gameplay experience.

So, we're supposed to disregard previous Fallouts and write peans about Bethesda and how great they are?

Maybe if I saw some tangible or observable reasons as to why Fallout 3 is so horribly misguided, I'd be sympathetic. Instead I just hear vague exclamations about how "IT'S NOT FALLOUT", when as far as I can tell this is just a bunch of devotees who wouldn't give two shits if Black Isle was heading up the exact same game.

Tangible and observable reasons have been posted several times. All you have to do is a little research. Rather than make vague exclamations about how "NMA SUCKS".

Also, if Black Isle did such a game, we'd also be up in arms. The difference? Black Isle listened to us.

What the NMA community collectively idealises as a fallout sequel, wouldn't appeal to anyone outside of this same small and hardcore fanbase.

Yes. You're right. You're absolutely right.

But explain to me why wouldn't it appeal? What elements of Fallout 1 and Fallout 2 that made it great would make proper Fallout 3 suck?

We all understand this, and I'm sure you're able to as well; what annoys us is that a large collection of NMA users simply refuse to face reality, and would rather stay protected in their own little bubbles of fanboyism by writing shit like this to reinforce their silly little opinions on what Fallout 3 should be like, as well as lash out at anyone who tries to sway them otherwise. It's just one of those horrible, horrible internet communities that runs entirely on nostalgia, because it's all they have left.

Yes, we completely run on nostalgia by covering post nuclear games, promising projects, mods, art and anything even remotely pertaining to Fallout.

Also, why do you deem "Don't Buy The Hype" as shit? Because it exposes the Bethesda's modus operandi? Because *gasp* it dares to actually have an opinion against Bethesda?

 

[KagePrototype]

But explain to me why wouldn't it appeal? What elements of Fallout 1 and Fallout 2 that made it great would make proper Fallout 3 suck?

I'd wager the interface and combat system; back in '97 it probably worked, but by today's standards it's just slow and clunky.

Yes, we completely run on nostalgia by covering post nuclear games, promising projects, mods, art and anything even remotely pertaining to Fallout.

Um...yeah? That's kinda what I was getting at.

Also, why do you deem "Don't Buy The Hype" as shit? Because it exposes the Bethesda's modus operandi? Because *gasp* it dares to actually have an opinion against Bethesda?

Because it paints Bethesda as an evil, malicious company that goes out of its way to "change what makes games special" in order to alienate core fanbases. Do I really have to explain how that is fundamentally stupid and skewed thinking?.

 

[Beerdude26]

shit like this

While I find Bethesda's stance on the fan sites a bit unnerving, it's obvious that that entire rant is riddled with fan angst. I really don't understand why they're kicking up such a fuss about this. They modified pretty much everything of Fallout 2, they fixed hundreds of bugs, they changed models etc. If they're hoping to keep Fallout 3 alive for a long time by doing that, I'd praise Bethesda Softworks for possibly (which is also the keyword here) making a dumbed-down version of Fallout 3.

 

[Tagaziel]

I'd wager the interface and combat system; back in '97 it probably worked, but by today's standards it's just slow and clunky.

Two points that are the least of our concern. Especially since turn based in Fallout was slowed down by the fact that the characters had to move one by one and play all of their animation frames.

Sucked big time especially when battling supermutants or the Enclave troopers.

And the GUI? Well, Van Buren attempted to fix the problem and we had no problems with that.

Um...yeah? That's kinda what I was getting at.

I'm pointing out that Fallout is a base from which to start expanding, which we do. If we were running entirely on nostalgia, we'd have devoured our own tail long ago and the forums would die down.

Because it paints Bethesda as an evil, malicious company that goes out of its way to "change what makes games special" in order to alienate core fanbases. Do I really have to explain how that is fundamentally stupid and skewed thinking?.

That's not the point of the article. The point of the article are the methods it uses to enforce it's games, which includes alienating the fanbase, even if it was supporting the game for a long time (eg. Star Treks).

While I find Bethesda's stance on the fan sites a bit unnerving, it's obvious that that entire rant is riddled with fan angst. I really don't understand why they're kicking up such a fuss about this. They modified pretty much everything of Fallout 2, they fixed hundreds of bugs, they changed models etc. If they're hoping to keep Fallout 3 alive for a long time by doing that, I'd praise Bethesda Softworks for possibly (which is also the keyword here) making a dumbed-down version of Fallout 3.

The fuss is because we've been waiting for Fallout 3 for the past 10 years only to get... this.

Also, not only Fallout 2, FALLOUT is the biggest challenge.

 

[Absinthe]

As I suspected, Mikael eventually fit snugly into the NMA mold. Questioning regarding my Fallout credentials, as well of those of others. Self-aggrandizing. Assumptions born out of ingorance (based on one preview)... You'll have to excuse me, as I really don't have the will to engage in the same bullshit I have on so many other forums.

The difference between my position and NMA's is that I'm willing to have a little faith and wait to be proven wrong. You've jumped to your conclusions straight off the bat.