God helps those who help themselves

"god"... what a farce.

learn to take control of your own life.
 
God is omnipotent and omniscient.
That means it is impossible for anything to happen unless god specifically wants it to happen.

If god kills you, he does so in order to send you to heaven or hell.
People who are unworthy end up in hell.
People who are worthy are those who follow all god's laws to the letter and pray regularly.

So, the only conclusion is that the population of heaven is being selectively bred for maximum servility and inability to question authority.

Why?

God could just as easily zap an army of slaves out of thin air (or just do the work himself).
But I hear he gave us "free will" ...out of kindness?

Free will in this case means only "an extremely high chance of eternal flesh-burning".
God in the bible loves the smell of burning meat. It's probably his favorite thing.

So why didn't god just materialize infinite steaks and zap them one at a time for eternity to get his immolation buzz?

The only explanation is that he got bored of perfection, and decided to mix it up a bit.

So humanity burns at the whim of "free will" so that god can get high.


As for why god wants an army of eugenically engineered slaves:

?
 
Deadline said:
So just because God allows bad things to happen to people, he is an asshole?
Click to expand...

Actually, he's an asshole because he's already condemned such fates onto people before they're born.

ADDED: Just read Mecha's post and he pretty much expressed my thoughts in a more elaborate fashion.
 
Omniscient is sucked in bible. God has once, in the bible, asked someone a question for an answer.
 
Absinthe said:
Actually, he's an asshole because he's already condemned such fates onto people before they're born.
Click to expand...


Before I tell you I think you're wrong (oops too late), why do you think this?

Do you not believe in free will?
 
Vass said:
Before I tell you I think you're wrong (oops too late), why do you think this?

Do you not believe in free will?
Click to expand...

If you believe in an omnipotent and omniscient god, then you should not believe in free will. You should believe that your fate is dictated by your god, as he knows and controls everything. If he knows and controls everything, then things can only pan out a certain way because he wants it to be so.

Free will is not compatible with such a being. Any attempts to make the two co-exist require massive distortions of reasoning.

As for me? I guess I believe in free will, but then I don't believe in any gods either.

bbson john said:
Omniscient is sucked in bible. God has once, in the bible, asked someone a question for an answer.
Click to expand...

Rhetoric. Or he's dicking around.

For an entity capable of reading minds, it's retarded to think he actually requires dialogue with his creation in order to obtain information.
 
Religion is a mind virus, and This is a very thought provoking article on the subject which explains why. Clicky

Disclaimer: When I say "thought provoking" it requires the reader to either:

a. Have thoughts of their own (i.e. you have to have free will to think about things or not, or whatever, this isn't my point)

b. Be capable of rational thought.

c. Must have the capability to read and understand something, then formulate an opinion based on new evidence/opinions presented.

Yeah yeah just read the article and you'll know what I mean. It's actually rather interesting.
 
EEngi said:
Why do you guys talk as if you know what god's doing.
Click to expand...

I certainly see what he isn't doing. And Gods like the one in the Bible are very ripe for discussion. As retarded, contradictory, and stupid such an entity may be, he is very defined.

I love these responses. People who believe in God criticize others for assuming too much about him. The irony is savory.
 
Freedom = No such thing.

Free Will = No such thing.

Ya'll are probally gonna ask why I have come to this conclusion...well it's simple. We are all bound by something. Whether it be in science or religion...or whatever.

In science we're bound by laws that govern space/time and in religion we're bound by moral/ethical laws.

What's funny is that it comes down to this:

We're animals trying to figure out our place in this universe, when in fact there is none. The answer to the meaning of life is to live, then die. What we do inbetween those times is up to you. It's that simple. We're afraid that there's no point in life and that destroys are hope. Hope that there's something after death or there's some great and wonderful meaning to life...It's kinda like the myth of pandoras box.

We're animals still bound by our instincts and deep rooted desires.


Well there's my cynical side.
 
Absinthe said:
I certainly see what he isn't doing. And Gods like the one in the Bible are very ripe for discussion. As retarded, contradictory, and stupid such an entity may be, he is very defined.

I love these responses. People who believe in God criticize others for assuming too much about him. The irony is savory.
Click to expand...

okay, first of all, stop assuming. Who told you I believed in god?

second, No, you certaintly can't say that you know what he's NOT doing. It's what YOU think he's ought to be doing in your own way. He might be doing it in a different way.

third. where is the "discussion" on your post here? If you want to discuss, tell me why you think god is retarded, contradictory, and stupid.

Also, I didn't write what i did to defend god or whatever you think i was doing. Think why i wrote it before you quote it.
 
EEngi said:
okay, first of all, stop assuming. Who told you I believed in god?
Click to expand...

Do you? Otherwise, why pose that question?

second, No, you certaintly can't say that you know what he's NOT doing. It's what YOU think he's ought to be doing in your own way. He might be doing it in a different way.
Click to expand...

No, it's very easy to tell what God is doing. God is not saving the child who dies in a car accident. God is not helping the bum on the street overcome poverty. God is not inspiring faith in me.

The question of what God is doing is worthless since it's a dead end. This "different way" you bring up is just a red herring. For example:
A schoolbus is travelling down a major road. When making a left turn, a car runs a red light and crashes into its side. Six are killed.
Where does God factor into this. Where, at any point, does something require a higher explanation involving him. What "different way" is possibly being employed

third. where is the "discussion" on your post here? If you want to discuss, tell me why you think god is retarded, contradictory, and stupid.
Click to expand...

You asked essentially how it's possible for people to discuss what God intends and does. My argument was that it is indeed possible with clearly defined gods such as the one in the Bible.
I have no intention of explaining my position on such a God at the moment, because I've already done so recently in another topic. Use the search function if you're actually curious.
 
Absinthe said:
Do you? Otherwise, why pose that question?



No, it's very easy to tell what God is doing. God is not saving the child who dies in a car accident. God is not helping the bum on the street overcome poverty. God is not inspiring faith in me.

The question of what God is doing is worthless since it's a dead end. This "different way" you bring up is just a red herring. For example:
A schoolbus is travelling down a major road. When making a left turn, a car runs a red light and crashes into its side. Six are killed.
Where does God factor into this. Where, at any point, does something require a higher explanation involving him. What "different way" is possibly being employed



You asked how it's possible for people to discuss what God intends. My argument was that it is indeed possible with clearly defined gods such as the one in the Bible.
I have no intention of explaining my position on such a God at the moment, because I've already done so recently in another topic. Use the search function if you're actually curious.
Click to expand...


I'm glad you caught all of your own mistakes.
 
I'm glad you made a bullshit response. Don't waste my time in the future.
 
sorry, but the truth hurts, doesn't it? :rolleyes:
I didn't ask you to reply. If you prefer, I'd ask you to not waste your own time and blame it on someone else.

But now it's getting close to flaming. So i'm out. peace :cheers:
 
i too support leProbz's advice. lets not talk abt religions. no body expects a communal riot @ hl2.net.
Gunner said:
If -> were.

Anyway, I think lePobz's advice is very wise: it's best not to discuss, debate, argue about religion with believers.
Click to expand...
 
EEngi said:
sorry, but the truth hurts, doesn't it? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

What truth? You have done nothing but pose a dumb question, basically ignore my response, and then dismiss me outright on... what grounds again?

What method for extracting truth are you using, may I ask?

I didn't ask you to reply. If you prefer, I'd ask you to not waste your own time and blame it on someone else.
Click to expand...

Discourse requires at least two people. If discourse is not your intent, then don't post. Period.

But now it's getting close to flaming. So i'm out. peace :cheers:
Click to expand...

Allow me to step over the threshold. You're a ****ing idiot.
 
What a dumb discussion. Prove your deity or it doesn't matter. Prove why I should care.
 
You get to burn cancer riddled kids in buses. You'd be the same as the old God but with more class.
 
Oh, btw, god has NEVER helped me masturbate. So, good day.
 
Tr0nism is supreme.

Where is that paranoid asian when you need him?
 
Instead of flaming, and getting a few people banned here and there, why not just close this thread?
 
If there is a god as depicted by Christianity at large, he abandoned this world long ago :p
 
WANTED: "GOD" ; ALSO GOES BY DIFFERENT NAMES

FOR MASS MURDER AND GENOCIDE

ANY INFORMATION CONTRIBUTING TO THE CAPTURE OF THIS VERY DANGEROUS INDIVIDUAL SHALL BE REWARDED WITH UP TO $100,000,000.



ahem.
 
Good. Clear the execution chamber.
 
Mechagodzilla said:
God is omnipotent and omniscient.
That means it is impossible for anything to happen unless god specifically wants it to happen.

If god kills you, he does so in order to send you to heaven or hell.
People who are unworthy end up in hell.
People who are worthy are those who follow all god's laws to the letter and pray regularly.

So, the only conclusion is that the population of heaven is being selectively bred for maximum servility and inability to question authority.

Why?

God could just as easily zap an army of slaves out of thin air (or just do the work himself).
But I hear he gave us "free will" ...out of kindness?

Free will in this case means only "an extremely high chance of eternal flesh-burning".
God in the bible loves the smell of burning meat. It's probably his favorite thing.

So why didn't god just materialize infinite steaks and zap them one at a time for eternity to get his immolation buzz?

The only explanation is that he got bored of perfection, and decided to mix it up a bit.

So humanity burns at the whim of "free will" so that god can get high.


As for why god wants an army of eugenically engineered slaves:

?
Click to expand...

i need to memorise this
 
She was. I shot her, 2 years ago.......

Oh, wait, that Maria..... ahem..
 
Mechagodzilla said:
God is omnipotent and omniscient.
That means it is impossible for anything to happen unless god specifically wants it to happen.

If god kills you, he does so in order to send you to heaven or hell.
People who are unworthy end up in hell.
People who are worthy are those who follow all god's laws to the letter and pray regularly.

So, the only conclusion is that the population of heaven is being selectively bred for maximum servility and inability to question authority.

Why?

God could just as easily zap an army of slaves out of thin air (or just do the work himself).
But I hear he gave us "free will" ...out of kindness?

Free will in this case means only "an extremely high chance of eternal flesh-burning".
God in the bible loves the smell of burning meat. It's probably his favorite thing.

So why didn't god just materialize infinite steaks and zap them one at a time for eternity to get his immolation buzz?

The only explanation is that he got bored of perfection, and decided to mix it up a bit.

So humanity burns at the whim of "free will" so that god can get high.


As for why god wants an army of eugenically engineered slaves:

?
Click to expand...

You forgot about how a perfect being is not steered by petty emotions or desires which are human 'weaknesses'. Which makes it just that much more ridiculous. Actually, a perfect all-powerful being would never ever make something, especially not to worship him. What reason does a perfect being have to do anything? None at all.

Deadline said:
He didnt directly create disease, just like he didnt directly create sin. But since everything was created by God, sure thats easy to argue. And no, I believe in Evolution to be true, just not to the extent that a big bang created us over billions of years.
Click to expand...

He did directly create disease. Or if he is the "motor" behind evolution as some people believe, he allowed them to form.

I agree with you on that too, growing up in church I have heard to many testimonies to number about people being miraculously healed. I have a hard time believing alot of it, probably 99% of it. and I have yet to see an arm or leg grow back or someone come back from the dead, but I still believe its possible.
Click to expand...

So the conclusion is: you don't think you ever saw a case of it happening, yet you believe for some unexplained reason it is still possible. And God in all his splendor and generosity has never miraculously healed anyone in recorded history? I can only conclude then, that he is an asshole.

I also said that If God is who we say he is, then he would have known we would fall to the temptation of the fruit. He created us to be curious, and so we are.
Click to expand...

Conclusion: if he exists, he is an asshole.

He created me, and he KNEW that I would be an atheist, which will cost me an eternity in hell (great, infinite suffering for a finite amount of sin, more proof he is an asshole).

I still question alot about what the bible says and who God is, so dont call me lazy, I dont believe everything the pastor says, or everything I read in the bible and take it for its face value. God and the universe go MUCH deeper than just the Bible, there is ALOT more to everything than whats in that book.
Click to expand...

You don't try to understand why God created us knowing that we would turn to sin. Perhaps lazy isn't the word, but it's believing something despite the overwhelming logic against it that it just doesn't make any flipping sense.

No, I believe the world is much more than just 8000 years old, I believe it is 4.55 billion years, just like scientists do, but I believe that from Adam and Eve to present is only an 8000 year time span. I have a whole theory on the history of our planet, and present day humanity, but ill keep that to myself.
Click to expand...

It's not a theory unless you can substantiate it with evidence. Which I doubt you can, and that makes it a "fantasy" because it actually goes against all evidence we have.

What exactly am I trying to get out of? Sounding like a fool? Sure so you think I sound like a fool, and I think you sound like you have your own beliefs, I dont agree with your opinion, but I respect it, because its yours. Just because I believe in God doesn't mean I agree with everything the church believes in.
Click to expand...

Saying "it's my opinion" is trying to get out of criticism against it if it doesn't make any sense.

You don't have to respect my opinion, not when it doesn't make any sense according to you. If you can point any flaws in my opinion, feel free to point out it's stupid and I can write a rebuttal. Not respecting an opinion doesn't mean disrespecting a person, it's limited to the opinion.

To some yes, but who said anything about Faith? Just because I have faith doesn't mean I dont question. Yes, im sure 95% of the "christians" out there can be described by that quote, but I dont think I am.
Click to expand...

It does mean exactly that. Having faith in something means you already have an answer. If you have an answer, you don't tend to question, unless you step out of that faith.

Christianity poses a very simple answer to everything: "God did it.".


I think im quite open minded about many things, religious or not, and I have my beliefs and my faith, but I am not so ignorant to ignore facts like evolution, and carbon dating of the planet, and so on. Being healed without divine intervention, as you put it, is true, I know.

The human body is truly amazing, and I believe God created us the way we are, the way our body works, as well as the way our bodies can sometimes "Miraculously" heal itself. So your right, Divine Intervention may not always play a part in Miraculous healings, but everything points back to a creator, may it be man or God.
Click to expand...

But those heals are not miraculous, and calling it a miracle takes away the incentive to find out the true cause.

Everything only points to a creator to the unknowing mind. In the 16th century, a creator was self-evident, there was no other explanation, it would have been silly at that time to state "I don't believe in God".

God only fills the gaps of what we don't know, he used to be the creator of everything. That opinion is only being held by a few stubborn creationists. Now that we can explain where biodiversity came from, he's been fired from the position of "creator of everything", everything wasn't created at once, it evolved. So now Christians say "Ok, but he could have steered evolution to give birth to present day man." and you can't really argue against that. It could be possible, it's as possible as a Giant Spaghetti Monster 'steering' evolution though. It's just desperately trying to fill God into somewhere now that he can't take credit for all life on earth any more. It's not needed.

Same for the Big Bang, now apparently God didn't create the universe any more. No, now he just initiated the Big Bang.

That trend is gonna continue until you can only conclude that the magnificent all powerful creator has pretty much done nothing. If this universe could have come to being without a creator at all, and could continue to exist and evolve without one, why put a god into the equation at all? Ockam's Razor states that you should take only the minimum of assumptions into a theory. And an omnipotent God is pretty much THE biggest and most complicated assumption you could make. And turns out, it's also an unneeded assumption.

CrazyHarij said:
they don't mean fear as in be afraid of, but respect and honor

i grew up in a christian family
Click to expand...

It is meant to be interpreted as fear. “Disobey my law and you will be killed.”,
“Have buttsechs and you will be killed.”, “Commit adultery and you will be killed.”, “If you don't worship me, you cannot enter heaven.”.

Does that try to impose fear or a sense of respect unto you? Sounds like terror to me.

If he wanted honoring (what omnipotent perfect being would have such human vanity?) then he would state “Follow my laws and I shall grant you wisdom beyond your dreams.” or some other cheesy shit. He's a tyrant, not a great king.
 
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