Half Life 2 multiplayer - Was it always CSS?

[poseyjmac]

It's obvious they didnt do HL2 MP because they didn't want to take the time to code the manipulator in for online play.

its already 'coded' in in the leak, you can play MP games and use the manipulator. the lag would be fine if there was only one manipulator to be had in the map.

 

[Grand Architect]

Yeah the Manipulator would be a nightmare for the server. Physics demand alot from the server when moved around to much, which is why we get the repelling effect on physics in CS:S. Can you imagine the lag caused by 10+ players with a Manipulator push/dragging crap around the map.

 

[vertthrasher]

Maybe it was a scrapped idea thats going to be in that "making of hl2" book.

 

[KagePrototype]

Maybe it was a scrapped idea thats going to be in that "making of hl2" book.

That's what I was thinking. We may see something in raising the bar that might explain some of this, or at least Valve's motivations.

 

[azz0r]

Well CSS has to have a bounce so the player never really touches a server side object because it uses to much bandwith.

Imagine the bandwith required for manipulators and it dragging and throwing items around - not possible imho.

 

[MetalliMyers]

No he was not playing CS, he was refering to Half Life 2s multiplayer at the time.

CSS wasnt even in production.

I forgot, you work at Valve, so you have the facts.

 

[azz0r]

I forgot, you work at Valve, so you have the facts.

You forgot to read my facts STATED by Valve employees.

 

[ShadowFox]

You forgot to read my facts STATED by Valve employees.

But still, you cannot disprove any of the things said by Valve employees.

 

[clarky003]

so does the mod community have to make a HL2 gordon player model, cause if just that one thing isnt done right, then it just wont feel right.

id say its a job for valve if they plan on including it in final retail, or as an add on.

another reason for HL2 MP, is seeing a ragdolling high polygon Gordon,

 

[MetalliMyers]

Just because he said that he plays HL2 multiplayer daily and now there is no HL2 themed multiplayer doesn't mean he lied. It just means that they were probably working out the netcode and such for Source so they can eventually have a multiplayer with the Source engine. Now those aren't facts, it's called logical reasoning.

 

[azz0r]

But still, you cannot disprove any of the things said by Valve employees.

If Valve fcked you in the ass and sued you for making noise you'd still defend them wouldnt you? Jesus christ.

Just because he said that he plays HL2 multiplayer daily and now there is no HL2 themed multiplayer doesn't mean he lied. It just means that they were probably working out the netcode and such for Source so they can eventually have a multiplayer with the Source engine. Now those aren't facts, it's called logical reasoning.

You had a point, then you became a smart arse on the last sentence, what a shame.

 

[poseyjmac]

i think the scrapped hl2mp will be mentioned in raising the bar. in the 'f*cking over the hl2 fans' chapter. :/

 

[ShadowFox]

If Valve fcked you in the ass and sued you for making noise you'd still defend them wouldnt you? Jesus christ.

I fail to see how this relates to the argument. I suppose you realized you had no case, so you started to resort to insults.

 

[azz0r]

I fail to see how this relates to the argument. I suppose you realized you had no case, so you started to resort to insults.

Ok fanboy, you win *puts hands up*

 

[poseyjmac]

I fail to see how this relates to the argument. I suppose you realized you had no case, so you started to resort to insults.

uh, he didn't insult anyone.

 

[clarky003]

Azzor, id have to say your avatar definately suits you.

 

[azz0r]

Azzor, id have to say your avatar definately suits you.

Ah yeah, because it says spam?

In the context of this thread, your post - which does not relate to the given subject, is infact spam.

Hypocrite, much?

 

[ShadowFox]

Ok fanboy, you win *puts hands up*

See.. you having nothing to add do you? Just explain to me how Valve lied and I will gladly agree with you.

The problem is, they didn't.

 

[azz0r]

See.. you having nothing to add do you? Just explain to me how Valve lied and I will gladly agree with you.

The problem is, they didn't.

DID YOU EVEN READ MY FIRST POST?

Christ almighty.

 

[Edcrab]

Alright, I'd be the first to punch azz0r given the opportunity in real life (sorry, but I have this annoying honest streak) but he has a damn point.

Either Cliffe lied/was mistaken about the CS:S dev cycle, or Gabe lied/was mistaken (heh) about the existence of a unique HL2 multiplayer that he played daily.

Now, either he genuinely considered CS:S to be unique, what with being a rehash of an aging game (and presuming Cliffe was wrong), or he's referring to a now dropped component.

Alternatively, he was lying because he was bored, but unlike some I doubt that last option.

Regardless of everyone's stance on this some clarifcation would be nice.

 

[ShadowFox]

In an interview at 10/01/03 Gabe (developer interview 2) said he plays Half Life 2's mulitplayer daily and its something unique and really cool.

The delay comes and goes and then in an interview after CSS was announced (the infamous video with Cliffe talking with clips of italy and the table being pushed in the door way) Cliffe states they started work on CSS around February.

Last monthish we found out that Half Life 2 does not have a multiplayer.

Thus how can Gabe have played something daily that doesnt exist?

Okay.. lets see... in 2003 Gabe says he plays HL2 multiplayer everyday. Not a lie.

In 2004 they start work on CS:S. Not a lie.

In 2004 they announce HL2 has no multiplayer. Not a lie.

If Gabe came out and said that he played HL2's multiplayer a couple weeks ago, then you would have a point. But as it is, you are using false inference to try to link to events that have little to do with eachother.

Probably there was a HL2 multiplayer and they scrapped it. But I am not going to go off and assume things like you obviously have.

 

[Chiefi]

I'm sure Cliffe has the temptation to write in this thread. Don't you Cliffe! Come on, a single post from you could clear all of this out. :stare:

 

[Absinthe]

Chill the **** down, azz0r. You're just being a twat now.

 

[azz0r]

Okay.. lets see... in 2003 Gabe says he plays HL2 multiplayer everyday. Not a lie.

In 2004 they start work on CS:S. Not a lie.

In 2004 they announce HL2 has no multiplayer. Not a lie.

If Gabe came out and said that he played HL2's multiplayer a couple weeks ago, then you would have a point. But as it is, you are using false inference to try to link to events that have little to do with eachother.

Probably there was a HL2 multiplayer and they scrapped it. But I am not going to go off and assume things like you obviously have.

Ah yeah, your precious Valve does not lie.

September 30th anyone?

 

[Edcrab]

Eh... considering that it's generally accepted that they've scrapped it I think accusations of "assumptions" are a bit off. They're bound to occur what with significant gaps in our information.

Currently the discussed topic is leaning towards want of an explanation rather than the somewhat sensationalist "big fat lie". Interesting, however, that Valve apparently failed to notice this as well and/or didn't consider it important enough to amend/clarify...

 

[ShadowFox]

Ah yeah, your precious Valve does not lie.

September 30th anyone?

When did I say they didn't lie? Never. My point is they didn't lie in this situation.

I don't see how defending them against untrue criticism makes them "my precious Valve".

 

[Absinthe]

Ah yeah, your precious Valve does not lie.

September 30th anyone?

Just because they've lied about one thing doesn't mean they've lied about everything. The fact is that you don't have any solid grounds for accusing Valve of lying.

 

[ShadowFox]

Currently the discussed topic is leaning towards want of an explanation rather than the somewhat sensationalist "big fat lie". Interesting, however, that Valve apparently failed to notice this as well and/or didn't consider it important enough to amend/clarify...

I have no problem with wanting an explanation, but with the topic header being "Half Life 2 multiplayer - the big fat lie", what do you expect?

 

[azz0r]

My point is they didn't lie in this situation.

and to follow your train of thought earlier; "How do you know? Do you work for Valve? thought not.".

 

[blahblahblah]

I think they horribly missed their time table for release.

If you look at the underlying tech (from what we know), it uses primarily DX8 technology. I think when when it was delayed internally (before HL2 was ever announced to the public, according to their time table) they decided to add some DX9 trimmings (some more advanced shaders, HDR [Is that even in the game?]). They then announced HL2 and it was delayed yet again. To prevent their entire game engine and art assets from being outdated, they started axing stuff like HL2 themed deathmatch. I think if Valve did everything they wanted to do to HL2, we wouldn't have it for another year.

These games are getting so long to create. Even ID software, masters at creating games and game engines, delayed Doom 3 a considerable amount of time. Carmack has even stated that he would have re-wrote part of the Doom 3 engine if he knew Doom 3 would have taken this long to release. That's right, ID Software intended to release Doom 3 over a year ago.

 

[ShadowFox]

and to follow your train of thought earlier; "How do you know? Do you work for Valve? thought not.".

No, but I believe in "innocent until proven guilty".

 

[Sparta]

You do know, that the entire time, he was referring to CS?

 

[alan8325]

I'd rather see Valve spend more time on Team Fortress 2 than a HL2 themed deathmatch-style multiplayer. 3rd party mod teams will bust one out in no time.

 

[Gossoon]

As someone said before, I think Hasan, this is probably all about money. They were spending a lot of development time creating MP when they were getting further and further behind on the core SP so they thought, let's shelf this for a bit, put a couple of guys to work porting CS and that will tide the suckers over for awhile. Once HL2 is launched Valve will finish up the MP portion, sell it over Steam for $30 and make themselves a boatload of money. Meanwhile, the fans can't complain because they did get a MP, just not the one originally envisioned and now they'll have to pay extra if they want the true HL2 MP. Financially smart from Valve's point of view but if they keep jerking their fans around they will not last long.

 

[Absinthe]

I'd rather see Valve spend more time on Team Fortress 2 than a HL2 themed deathmatch-style multiplayer. 3rd party mod teams will bust one out in no time.

It's been stated at least twice in this topic why that would be a not-so-good idea.

 

[gm4n123]

Well, i know for one thing the leaked beta from last october had a playable multiplayer component that was basically hl deathmatch, and so there was at least the capability for a plain old hl2 deathmatch gameplay - it was not unique or new or anything, so it most likely got scrapped becuase nothing new was brought to the table - it would have been nice if they had left it in tho, it was really neat to play around with the hoverboat and car on mp_rocket...

 

[ShadowFox]

As someone said before, I think Hasan, this is probably all about money. They were spending a lot of development time creating MP when they were getting further and further behind on the core SP so they thought, let's shelf this for a bit, put a couple of guys to work porting CS and that will tide the suckers over for awhile. Once HL2 is launched Valve will finish up the MP portion, sell it over Steam for $30 and make themselves a boatload of money. Meanwhile, the fans can't complain because they did get a MP, just not the one originally envisioned and now they'll have to pay extra if they want the true HL2 MP. Financially smart from Valve's point of view but if they keep jerking their fans around they will not last long.

Well, Doug "I'm never wrong" Lombardi said that they have no plans for MP, but I suppose that is a possibility.

 

[Gossoon]

Well, Doug "I'm never wrong" Lombardi said that they have no plans for MP, but I suppose that is a possibility.

Well, I'm thinking that's because it will no longer "officially" be the HL2 MP. It'll be TF2 or something else. They can't brand it HL2 MP because people would go nuts when they have to pay for it. But whatever MP themed game they release next I bet a significant portion of it was originally for HL2. Just a theory...

 

[Alec_85]

If that is the case, then sure it wasn't a lie, but it was incredibly misleading.

'misleading' is just another of Valve's middlenames And it's sad because we are the ones who will suffer from it in the end ;(

 

[alan8325]

It's been stated at least twice in this topic why that would be a not-so-good idea.

What is the bad idea? Not making a HL2-themed multiplayer or making TF2 a stand-alone product? I'm not too disappointed with Valve not making a HL2-themed multiplayer because the same old deathmatch/capture-the-flag gameplay gets old fast with any game. Any mod team could do it pretty easily because all the art and weapons are already there. I don't even mod and I could probably do it within a week or two. You could even use CS:S maps for it and change the physics and add more objects for manipulator use.

Valve would have wanted to spend the time to create some kind of new, innovative multiplayer, but did not want to delay the game further. I'm saying that they are better off saving the MP innovation for TF2 or CS2. I just hope they aren't the full $40-50 like HL2 is, as they use the same engine and everything and are basically just some new art, such as an expansion. They probably will be around $40 though. :dozey: