Half Life 2 multiplayer - Was it always CSS?

[Absinthe]

It's pathetic how you people make up cover stories for Valve. They lie. PLain and simple.

Exactly.

I would think of you both as more credible if you actually had some substantial support to your claims.

 

[BuddMan]

azz0r:

All I can suggest is that you don't buy HL2. You're obviously convinced that Valve is guilty of something, that they've misled you at every opportunity (although god knows why they'd deliberately do that).

If you're so disillusioned about the whole thing, then walk away from it.

Ditto. Again, you should read this azz0r as you don't seem to be paying attention:

Let me tell you how game development works:

You start your project with a basic planned feature set. This features set expands throughout development until it reaches a particular point where the game is considered to be "feature complete".

At any time prior to that point, features are completely subject to change - they could be altered, removed completely, even new features may be added. A game in development is a fluid entity - you don't go from page 1 of the design document to the end, making everything along the way.

So, bearing that in mind, it's entirely feasible (I'd even go so far as to say likely) that when Gabe spoke about playing HL2 MP, it was a planned feature, it was in the game, and probably working (albeit in a rudimentary fashion) - see Gabe's comment about them putting Ted Backman's corpse in a buggy and launching it.

Right, so for whatever reason, Valve dropped that particular MP mode during development. Maybe it wasn't working properly and wouldn't be completed in the allotted time. Maybe the CS:S port was proving to be easier to develop. Maybe aliens came down and told Gabe to drop it. We don't know.

The point is that Valve dropped HL2 MP for a reason unknown to the unwashed masses, and guess what? They were under no obligation to inform you either way. That does not constitute a lie. Valve will have gigabytes of stuff that didn't make it into the game - were they all lied about too? They cut the Hydra - OMG! LIES! I WANT MY HYDRA!

What's funny is that they weren't even misleading about it - they clearly said at E3 that CS:S was shipping with HL2. Valve don't have a responsibility to inform you of every design decision they make.

 

[KagePrototype]

It's pathetic how you people make up cover stories for Valve. They lie. PLain and simple.

Do you even listen to what people are saying?

Right. If I said my favourite movie was Apollo 13, and then later saw Twelve Monkeys and proclaimed it my new favourite movie, was I lieing the first time? Get this through your head, things change over a video game's development period. Hell, there are things in the stolen build that were part of an older storyline that won't be used anymore, because they scrapped it. The Hydra was also cut. Did they lie about the Hydra? No, it's just what happens, for whatever reason. It makes sense to me (and certainly more sense than to accuse Valve of lieing), why not you?

 

[FictiousWill]

If Valve fuċked you in the ass and sued you for making noise you'd still defend them wouldnt you? Jesus christ.

Damn straight.


The game's been in production for such a ridiculous amount of time, nothing should be 'dropped' or 'left out' or whatever. They've had more than enough time to do anything and everything they set out to do in their feature set. Valve is not a mod team. They have no other jobs. Time has not been an issue.

Point being, if it was going in, it would be in. If it's not in, then it never was going to be, or Valve sat on their asses instead of code.

When Half-Life 2 comes out, we'll see if it's the work of a dedicated and fully employed game production team working for over half a decade.

 

[BuddMan]

Damn straight.


The game's been in production for such a ridiculous amount of time, nothing should be 'dropped' or 'left out' or whatever. They've had more than enough time to do anything and everything they set out to do in their feature set. Valve is not a mod team. They have no other jobs. Time has not been an issue.

Point being, if it was going in, it would be in. If it's not in, then it never was going to be, or Valve sat on their asses instead of code.

When Half-Life 2 comes out, we'll see if it's the work of a dedicated and fully employed game production team working for over half a decade.

Did you read any of the previous posts?

 

[FictiousWill]

Yeah. Care to reveal your point, Poirot?

 

[mutt]

Maybe it did, but got dropped. Ever think of that, smart guy? Huh huh huh?
OK, I'm done.

u could be right, but why wouldnt they tell us it was droped, oh wait this is valve, that would be to easy, urmm,

 

[exoeight]

hl2 mp was there, and you could play it.

The source engine has netcode. It stands to reason that they had to test that netcode with SOMETHING while they developed it, right? Therefore Valve, during development, were trying out multiplayer possibilities. Gabe was obviously participating in the testing of these, and enjoying himself, and excitedly told someone so.

Since then, plans have changed. There are a million and one possible reasons why the multiplayer component got axed. Don't take it personally. These things happen. But can we all just accept it?

there's a good quote for the "they are liers" people that obviously think it's not important to read all the posts and comprehend.

 

[Bastion]

Bottom line, who in there right mind makes a game these days with no MP? CS:S would be a nice selling point but not the solution for HL2 not having a MP. 1 question though I have no idea about programing but will it be harder for a MOD team to code in the MP [ DM, TDM, CTF ] in a game that doesn't have it?

 

[exoeight]

ok, some of you are trying too hard. it's ok, let it go.

cs:s did have better gameplay, as in the way you move, being able to shoot things and have it respond, it was a totaly different experience. animations and sounds. all that builds in to gameplay.

at that, not many people play DM, i wouldn't. i would rather play awsome mods that have fun with the engine, and do new things.

after i spend days playing half life 2, the last thing i'd want is to do it all over in dm and wear out hl2 to death. mods make it new and different.


on the subject of lieing:

ok, valve lied, a lot of you have stated that?

what the **** are you going to do about it? so you don't think valve should make games again because of it? so go the **** away then, and cry to your mom.

because even if valve did lie to your face what COULD you do? nothing.

you can cry

you can cry all you want, and just cry and be laughed at.

what do you get out of proving valve lied about something?

nothing.

get over it, seriously.

now that we know you think they lied... what now? is that all you have to say? that's pretty ****ing PATHETIC.

like you havn't lied before? god i bet you are all such little angels, perfect in every respect. ignorant as ****.

 

[The Mullinator]

How many people actually read what Pi Mu Rho said?

You seem to have some weird feeling that Valve lied to you. Well guess what? They didn't, read his post again. Also Valve doesn't have to tell you every design decision that they make. How many companies do you know actually do that? The only one I could think of that may have done that is the company that developed Fable, most other companies keep whatever they can secret and for good reason.

Get over yourselves here, Valve had multiplayer planned but decided to remove it at some point for reasons we don't know yet, and they have the right to do that. Are you so convinced that it was for the sole purpose of pissing off the "fans"? Really you have to be pretty idiotic to think something like that.

 

[exoeight]

will it be harder for a MOD team to code in the MP [ DM, TDM, CTF ] in a game that doesn't have it?

the sdk will have a sample hl2 mp sort of ordeal to start with i'm sure.

 

[Logic]

Point being, if it was going in, it would be in. If it's not in, then it never was going to be, or Valve sat on their asses instead of code.

Pure ignorance.

 

[Petabyte]

Go cry about it azz0r.

 

[FictiousWill]

Pure ignorance.

For a standard development cycle, sure. But over FIVE years! Five! That's a freaking long time. Pardon me for expecting complete feature sets after half a decade of production time.

the sdk will have a sample hl2 mp sort of ordeal to start with i'm sure.

HAHAHAHAHAHA! you have absolutely no idea what the hell you're talking about. You clearly picked an orifice with which to converse, but chose rather poorly!

 

[KagePrototype]

HAHAHAHAHAHA! you have absolutely no idea what the hell you're talking about. You clearly picked an orifice with which to converse, but chose rather poorly!

He's right, it was confirmed on the HL coders mailing list. The HL2 SDK will include "multiplayer samples". I remember Pi Mu Rho mentioning it a few days ago.

 

[azz0r]

Go cry about it azz0r.

This is the type of post that psses me off.

What are you on about crying? I started this thread hoping to shed some light on the situation and to generally discuss it.

How is that crying? Go troll another thread.

 

[FictiousWill]

If there are these sdk samples, why on earth would there be no playable multiplayer then?

 

[KagePrototype]

Why on earth would there be no multiplayer then?

You tell me. I'm gonna wait for "Raising The Bar" and see if there's any explanation in there.

 

[Edcrab]

I personally suspect that they just didn't think the final product met their standards, simple as that. Doesn't matter how "fun" or "unique" it is, if the team didn't think it worthy of the SP component they'd have dropped it.

It is of course possible that they didn't want it to compete with TF2- and that is something I can understand. Even though I don't have the foggiest idea what's happening with it. Woo.

 

[wonkers]

I am a consumer. Not paid for by Valve. Opinions are free. I undulge in freedom. Not that I buy that freedom BS that the US force feeds through the media.

This freedom mean I can bite the hand that feeds me. It's actually quite novle.

 

[exoeight]

Posted by FictiousWill:
HAHAHAHAHAHA! you have absolutely no idea what the hell you're talking about. You clearly picked an orifice with which to converse, but chose rather poorly!

hey jerk, if you read that sentence you quoted by me you would see i was not stating fact, i was assuming.

i don't know what i'm talking about because i said the sdk might be a sample multiplayer game to help people get started?

your implying i'm stupid for something that valve has already done with half-life one, provide a multiplayer for people to start with.


Fictious, just because you're an asshole doesn't mean you have to parade it around the forums, it's obvious.

 

[Edcrab]

Well, regardless of your assumption, you're right as KagePrototype pointed out. **** yeah!

It'd be much nicer here if people stuck to quiet disagreement and snide comments rather than openingly berating people who are wrong... weee.

 

[hunteraz]

who cares?

 

[iamaelephant]

I personally suspect that they just didn't think the final product met their standards, simple as that. Doesn't matter how "fun" or "unique" it is, if the team didn't think it worthy of the SP component they'd have dropped it.

No, that's a cop out. How could a multiplayer that was unique to the Half Life 2 environment not meet their standards, yet a five year old mod with flashy graphics and absolutely no gameplay improvements meet them?

 

[poseyjmac]

who cares?

everyone who has made a post in this thread has cared enough to a degree.

 

[exoeight]

Originally Posted by hunteraz
who cares?

Obviously you do, and if you say you don't you're in denial, because you took the time to come in to this thread and to post.

If you truly didn't care you wouldn't be here.

Not to mention that obviously half the people here care as well, as we are discussing it, except some trolls.

It's all pretty obvious, especially the fact that you are blind to all these responses and the thread itself...

seriously? you just posted for higher post count or something, maybe you think you're cool? who knows, i guess it could be because you felt alone and needed to be a part of the discussion so you don't feel outcast.

 

[The Mullinator]

No, that's a cop out. How could a multiplayer that was unique to the Half Life 2 environment not meet their standards, yet a five year old mod with flashy graphics and absolutely no gameplay improvements meet them?

The multiplayer they had been developing didn't meet their standards but they needed to put something in. So they put in the conversion mod that was closest to being finished as something half way between a temporary replacement and an added bonus.

 

[Edcrab]

Unique doesn't mean good. Monkeystrike is unique.

Still love to see what happened- better reserve a copy of "Raising the Bar".

 

[poseyjmac]

if any game's environments/universe had the potential to make an interesting and unique MP component, its HL2's by far. thats whats so sad. valve is so talented and have so much to work with, it would seem effortless for them to make a classic MP mode.

-you got a great backdrop for a team based game(combine, resistance). possibilities with the enemies, like striders, manhacks to add to it.

-you got great environments including city17, the coastal zones, ravenholm, traptown etc..

-you got physics objects, physics entities that could make for cool traps in a MP game(such as in traptown).

-great weapons. when i first saw the new RPG and how the laser worked much better than in hl, i thought man, its going to be awesome to be able to play MP on the coast and get one of those, and shoot a guy off that crane like they did on the e3 demo.

-and lastly the vehicles. they arent as demanding as the manipulator, but could add a lot to gameplay if implemented properly on a proper map, such as a coastal one.

no one can say that hl2 didn't have the necessary backdrop for a good MP mode. this content is screaming for its own classic themed MP more than any other game. like a human zombie's muffled scream under a headcrab latched onto his body. :/

 

[Edcrab]

I wanted to see a HL2 themed multiplayer with all the features you just described- but that doesn't mean that they actually had anything including them.

Gabe said the MP was "unique" and that he "played it every day". Possibilities: a) total fabrication, b) reference to a absentee MP component, c) reference to CS:S and Cliffe got his production dates wrong. I'm inclined to lean towards b); I just can't believe they'd ignore HL2's universe for multiplayer and go for CS from the outset, the potential was too great.

 

[iamaelephant]

Still love to see what happened- better reserve a copy of "Raising the Bar".

They've told us so many lies and half-truths thus far, what makes you think that book will be any different?

 

[Edcrab]

It'll be an explanation. Whether or not it's true remains to be seen.

You could use the "lie" arguement even if Gabe himself were to appear and clarify matters. "OMG GABE F**K YOU I KNO US LYIN"; someone, I guarantee you, would say something along those lines. I just want Valve to at least hint at what occured.

 

[Shuzer]

umm, read his post. CS:S didn't begin production till februrary of that next year.

Without reading through the topic (sorry if this was covered, I'm SURE it was), this is a complete and utter lie. The stolen build had CS:S stolen with it. Granted, it was in the VERY early works, but it was DEFINITELY being worked on.

 

[poseyjmac]

Without reading through the topic (sorry if this was covered, I'm SURE it was), this is a complete and utter lie. The stolen build had CS:S stolen with it. Granted, it was in the VERY early works, but it was DEFINITELY being worked on.

do you have any proof of this?

 

[Shuzer]

do you have any proof of this?

Um.. yes? I downloaded it, along with the HL2 stolen build. anon jacked it ALONG with HL2, and HL:S. CZ at the same time, too.

 

[exoeight]

no one can say that hl2 didn't have the necessary backdrop for a good MP mode.

so very true, i guess all in all when it comes down to it, it would have been a nice mp.

what can you do though? only so many times we can say how bad we want a hl2dm or something.

oh well.

 

[poseyjmac]

Um.. yes? I downloaded it, along with the HL2 stolen build. anon jacked it ALONG with HL2, and HL:S. CZ at the same time, too.

do you have any proof you can present as proof? otherwise your claim holds no water.

 

[poseyjmac]

so very true, i guess all in all when it comes down to it, it would have been a nice mp.

what can you do though? only so many times we can say how bad we want a hl2dm or something.

oh well.

well bitching about it makes me feel better lol. but i and others can also let valve know how disappointed we are. which could eventually lead to something positive.

 

[KagePrototype]

I remember seeing some CS:S stuff in the source code leak, though I don't remember any actual content i.e. just code. All I remember is the hl2 content.