Styloid
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To all of those bothering to defend HL2 physics, give up. There's no point. Most people just see the 'Havok' feature on the game ad and don't really care about how it's used or why. They don't bother to look any deeper. Valve has spent (probably) a lot of their five years finding inventive ways to use and tweak physics in their game but it looks like it's going to go over the heads of quite a few people.
FAK3R
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The thing you don't understand is that hl2 just uses it to make puzzles a little more challenging, and yes max payne 2 just uses it for show but it is infact quite a nice feature to have in an action game.
Either way if you played the leak. you know valve is a bunch of liars. if you play phystown the doors get kicked in and the steel(?) thing begins to swing on its own before you shoot it.
the_prodigy
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Make ur comments on the final release prick eater.
ph34r t3h cute
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Oh really... and you know that how? Played the beta... the 2-3 or watever year old one? Sorry you cant tell shit from a verson of the game thats years old...
edit: Guns floating on water? Ragdolls jerking? Oh dear load, guess what this is a freaking old verson you are playing, VERY old, for a start the e3 demo was never ment to be played, and it was all scripted cus of 1. they most likely did not have it finshed, long time ago. 2. they dont want it messing up while showing it.
Want to go stick a keyboard into a dvd player and complain when they dont do what you want?
Pfft.. you have no good point, your baseing your opinion on a freaking beta. You think the MP2 beta had perfect gameplay...?
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nw909
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Yeah mang, the beta is 2-3 years old, belive whatever you want...
:dozey:
Mountain Man
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Yeah, it's a little unfair to Valve to base your opinions of the final product on a stolen beta (or alpha as I suspect) that was never intended to be released to the public. As someone once said, it's like stealing a car off the assembly line then complaining that it's incomplete. It's a bit moronic, really.
FAK3R
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I never said max payne2 had perfect gameplay
but i'm glad it played out smoothly and basically like the first.. which was a big plus..
I'm just against the extremist views on how hl2 is so revolutionary with its physics and how it's incorporated to the game.. it really makes you look like more of an ass than all of you are saying I am
Q
qckbeam
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I don't care what FA3KR say's, the ragdolls in Half-Life 2 do NOT jerk around and have convulsions one the ground. I've twisted them into many positions and they have never done that. Box's sitting on top of other boxes do not have a small empty space in between them (boxes appear to be floating) in Half-Life 2 (Max Payne 2 does have this problem in a few areas, some are very obvious). Max Payne 2 DOESN'T have the robust materials system Valve incorparated into Half-Life 2. In MP2 Havok views all objects that can be affected by physics as the same material with differences being in mass alone. It doesn't know the difference between say a wooden beam and a steal one. That would be important if MP2 took physics further with breakable objects or water,but they didn't. Also, the objects in MP2 cannot hurt the player, nor can they hurt the enemy. I rolled a barrel off a high ledge in MP2, it hit the enemy and bounced off as if nothing had happened. In Half-Life 2 objects can hurt the player and the enemy depending on their velocity and their mass, which is really cool. So no manipulator weapons in MP2. It's not possible with the version of Havok they used. And once again, I'm not a fanboy. I love MP2, it's a really great game. The physics though are inferior to the HL2 BETA.
gantrithor_5
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FAK3R: You. Did you understand that part? How about all this? You don't steal a car halfway through the assembly line and say, "Where are the doors?"
freddythefrog
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MP2 does have an excellent ragdoll system, by far the best I've ever seen - not even hl2beta can do it as good as MP2, though it does a good job as well, and it's likely to be improved until it's released.
MP2 is the first game where radolls don't have those strangely pressed together legs when a body crumbles to the ground, such as Rainbow 6 oder Hitman 2 or Ut2003 and Unreal2.
And in MP2, the enemies don't actually crumble to the ground when they' re shot. They actually really fly and jerk back, stumbling into the next wall... and it's always the ragdoll system working.
very impressive, really. And the game really knows how to use physics for visually impressive sequences (death sequences where enemies fall over shelves throwing all stuff upon the shelf or crash into a pile of leet).
I doubt HL2 will feature this amount of visual incorporation of physics.
On the other hand, MP2 doesn't make gameplay use of physics, unfortunately. That's the big plus of HL2. It lets you use the physics to "work" your way through the game. They'll always stay visualy quite subtle though.
HL2 will have the more impressive use of physics in gameplay. Visually though, MP2 will likely always have the more impressive use of physics. .
MP2 is the first game where radolls don't have those strangely pressed together legs when a body crumbles to the ground, such as Rainbow 6 oder Hitman 2 or Ut2003 and Unreal2.
And in MP2, the enemies don't actually crumble to the ground when they' re shot. They actually really fly and jerk back, stumbling into the next wall... and it's always the ragdoll system working.
very impressive, really. And the game really knows how to use physics for visually impressive sequences (death sequences where enemies fall over shelves throwing all stuff upon the shelf or crash into a pile of leet).
I doubt HL2 will feature this amount of visual incorporation of physics.
On the other hand, MP2 doesn't make gameplay use of physics, unfortunately. That's the big plus of HL2. It lets you use the physics to "work" your way through the game. They'll always stay visualy quite subtle though.
HL2 will have the more impressive use of physics in gameplay. Visually though, MP2 will likely always have the more impressive use of physics. .
FAK3R
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Seems freddy the frog is the only one with sense here..
in the hl2 leak or movies the soldiers did not react to pain of bullets hitting their bodies like in max payne2
they just stood there and took the bullets ripping through their flesh until they collapsed and died
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qckbeam
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The soldiers in Half-Life 2 reacted to pain very slightly, you can see it but it's such a small thing that it's barely worth mentioning. I also remember reading that pain animations were being added into the game, there is a technique in Havok 2 that allows for blending of animations and ragdolls to allow for the enemy to go partially ragdoll when you shoot them without kiling them. Not sure if it's that technique or regular animations that are being added into the game. The soldiers reacting to bullets in MP2 has nothing to do with physics anyway since they respond with the same animation everytime no matter where you hit them. It's not the blending thing I was talking about earlier. How are pain animations in MP2 relavant at all? They have nothing to do with physics.
S
statix
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Thats funny i never saw that post by d33.
well i guess ill stop picking on you. Not only are you 15 but your nick just made you my prime target.
Styloid
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All I can say is wait until the game is out and you're playing SP or MP- driving vehicles, tearing down buildings, dueling with crowbars, laying traps, knocking every possible thing around, etc.- THEN say that HL2 physics isn't awesome.
O
Omega Blue
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ummm actually if youo had payed attention instead of talking out your a** you would have noticed he is. stand yourself next to ledge then throw a granade infront of you and you will die and have the exact same physics and ragdoll effect as your Enemies do.
the_prodigy
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Omega Blue ... what he meant was in HL2 nealry EVERYTHING is physically simulated, unlike MP2. Eg:- Heavy objects will cause damage etc.
This thread is becoming more like a MP2 vs HL2 thread .... sad.
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[NL]Mox
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Sometimes in MP2 I see people sitting on their knees when they die, not being able to bend their knees any further but still 'standing' right up. I hope this will not happen in HL2 coz it looks stupid.
[NL]Mox
[NL]Mox
ph34r t3h cute
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Ok "ass" how about you think for a second, I did not mean that at all, I mean you dont seem to react to the world, not that he is not ragdolled, e.g dive sidewards at some barrels and you dont knock them over, you bug yourself over the top of them and it looks totally dumb, I fail to understand why myself as when you walk at them, they fall over.
I would go into it more, but ya not worth it, I know what I mean and thats enough
edit: Thanks to the other reason who replyed to Blues post, thats also a good point, ojects dont do dmg too Max, they only do dmg to other people
C
ConSeannery
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Regarding model "deformation"
have you ever done any 3d modelling? this deformation is very difficult to eliminate without raising poly counts higher than they should be, or without using some sort of stretch modifier (even then you would need more poly's around bending points). the only "easy" way to eliminate this would be to put extents (limits) on bending/twisting values, but this creates glitches and imperfections, such as a model being pushed against a wall, and his arm is twitching against the wall like a lagged out multiplayer person. I'd rather have a slight deformation in some cases than a twitchy body that can cause loop errors.
Regarding censorship
the game is rated M. Lets be realistic...12 year olds nowadays are resourcefull and will still get their hands on this game
. don't want your parents to hear, grab some headphones for $10. Don't want your parents to see...play with a blanket covering you and the monitor . Cencorship ruins it for the rest of us. However, if swearwords were not censored, then they would become commonplace. This would result in the word having no impact. It would lose its meaning. Ahh censorship, can't live with it, can't live without it. I still like to see zero censorship in games and music - it just ruins the experience.
have you ever done any 3d modelling? this deformation is very difficult to eliminate without raising poly counts higher than they should be, or without using some sort of stretch modifier (even then you would need more poly's around bending points). the only "easy" way to eliminate this would be to put extents (limits) on bending/twisting values, but this creates glitches and imperfections, such as a model being pushed against a wall, and his arm is twitching against the wall like a lagged out multiplayer person. I'd rather have a slight deformation in some cases than a twitchy body that can cause loop errors.
Regarding censorship
the game is rated M. Lets be realistic...12 year olds nowadays are resourcefull and will still get their hands on this game
. don't want your parents to hear, grab some headphones for $10. Don't want your parents to see...play with a blanket covering you and the monitor . Cencorship ruins it for the rest of us. However, if swearwords were not censored, then they would become commonplace. This would result in the word having no impact. It would lose its meaning. Ahh censorship, can't live with it, can't live without it. I still like to see zero censorship in games and music - it just ruins the experience.
OCybrManO
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Yes, I do make 3D models (you could have inferred this from when I said I was an amateur modeler)... and animations, and code, and maps, etc...
Max Payne 2 does have restricted of bending allowed for the joints in their ragdolls... or else their knees and elbows would bend the wrong way (as seen in early implementations of ragdoll physics).
Name one other professional game that has polycounts roughly equal to those of Max Payne 2 that still doesn't allow you to attatch more than one bone to each vertex ("vertex blending"... look it up).
Can't think of one?
Do you know why?
... because way back before the first GeForce people were starting to realize what a restriction this was... so they built support for Vertex Blending into the hardware... and many modern engines support as many as 4 bones to be assigned to each vertex (some even support more than that).
This does not cause twitching, glitches, or imperfections in the ragdolls... that is bad physics code.
Why Max Payne 2 still does not use such commonplace technology when it is otherwise such an incredible game is beyond me...
... and exactly what would be bad about swear words having no impact?
It is the impact that offends people... not some combination of letters or sounds.
There are a lot of common topics and words that used to be as immoral to say as "****" that we now use without a second thought.
Is it bad that you are no longer offended by the same insults you used to make in your first few years of school?
No... because you have matured (hopefully).
Max Payne 2 does have restricted of bending allowed for the joints in their ragdolls... or else their knees and elbows would bend the wrong way (as seen in early implementations of ragdoll physics).
Name one other professional game that has polycounts roughly equal to those of Max Payne 2 that still doesn't allow you to attatch more than one bone to each vertex ("vertex blending"... look it up).
Can't think of one?
Do you know why?
... because way back before the first GeForce people were starting to realize what a restriction this was... so they built support for Vertex Blending into the hardware... and many modern engines support as many as 4 bones to be assigned to each vertex (some even support more than that).
This does not cause twitching, glitches, or imperfections in the ragdolls... that is bad physics code.
Why Max Payne 2 still does not use such commonplace technology when it is otherwise such an incredible game is beyond me...
... and exactly what would be bad about swear words having no impact?
It is the impact that offends people... not some combination of letters or sounds.
There are a lot of common topics and words that used to be as immoral to say as "****" that we now use without a second thought.
Is it bad that you are no longer offended by the same insults you used to make in your first few years of school?
No... because you have matured (hopefully).
A
AgentBirdman
Guest
Mona Sax nude tutorial
You can play the game as a nude Mona Sax like this:
First thing to do is "Right Click" your Max Payne shortcut on your desktop and then click "Properties". Add "-developerkeys" to the "target" line, the target should look something like this "C:\Program Files\Max Payne\MaxPayne.exe" -developerkeys.
now inside the game press Page Up till you get the mona sax nude model.
for a full set up the developerkeys:
C-Key - Cycle Through 3 Different Camera Modes.
PageUp - Cycle Mesh Up.
PageDn - Cycle Mesh Down.
Ctrl + PgUp - Cycle TextureSet Up.
Ctrl + PgDn - Cycle TextureSet Down.
Home - Increase Game Speed.
End - Decrease Game Speed.
Home + End - Set Game Speed To 1.00x.
Insert - Teleport Max To Next Start Point.
Delete - Teleport Max To Previous Start Point.
F7 - Switches AI Movement Network Conn. Visualization.
F8 - Switches AI movement Network Node Visualization.
F11 - Toggle Statistics ON/OFF.
F12 - Open Console.
Left-Key - External Camera Left.
Right-key - External Camera Right.
Up-key - External Camera Forward.
Down-Key - External Camera Backward
You can play the game as a nude Mona Sax like this:
First thing to do is "Right Click" your Max Payne shortcut on your desktop and then click "Properties". Add "-developerkeys" to the "target" line, the target should look something like this "C:\Program Files\Max Payne\MaxPayne.exe" -developerkeys.
now inside the game press Page Up till you get the mona sax nude model.
for a full set up the developerkeys:
C-Key - Cycle Through 3 Different Camera Modes.
PageUp - Cycle Mesh Up.
PageDn - Cycle Mesh Down.
Ctrl + PgUp - Cycle TextureSet Up.
Ctrl + PgDn - Cycle TextureSet Down.
Home - Increase Game Speed.
End - Decrease Game Speed.
Home + End - Set Game Speed To 1.00x.
Insert - Teleport Max To Next Start Point.
Delete - Teleport Max To Previous Start Point.
F7 - Switches AI Movement Network Conn. Visualization.
F8 - Switches AI movement Network Node Visualization.
F11 - Toggle Statistics ON/OFF.
F12 - Open Console.
Left-Key - External Camera Left.
Right-key - External Camera Right.
Up-key - External Camera Forward.
Down-Key - External Camera Backward
Originally posted by ConSeannery
the game is rated M. Lets be realistic...12 year olds nowadays are resourcefull and will still get their hands on this game
So we should be forced to accommodate people who break the law? Stellar logic there.
So what? Curse words have no intrinsic offensive "impact" to them. The stigma has been attributed to the word.
GLMinorThreat
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Yeah Max Payne 2 was awesome. I've beaten it 3 times already to get the alternate Ending. Good stuff.
I hope there is a third Max Payne game.
As for Havok and HL2 yeah... same engine for physics so it gives an idea of how things will react somewhat.
The woman that was Mona Sax in the graphic novels is beautiful by the way...
I hope there is a third Max Payne game.
As for Havok and HL2 yeah... same engine for physics so it gives an idea of how things will react somewhat.
The woman that was Mona Sax in the graphic novels is beautiful by the way...
Only gripe I still have about physics in games is that the perople you kill can die in some pretty fu*ked up positions...lol...lik ein MP2, I killed a guy with my grenade and he slammed against a wall and fell down onto his knees and head so that his ass was sticking up in the air. LOL. Well im sure that will level out in due time.
Yes, GLMinorThreat, there is another MP coming out....at the end of the credits there is a line that says "Max Paynes journey will continue through the night" or something like that....yippie! CALL OF DUTY COMES OUT TOMORROW!!!!!! YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes, GLMinorThreat, there is another MP coming out....at the end of the credits there is a line that says "Max Paynes journey will continue through the night" or something like that....yippie! CALL OF DUTY COMES OUT TOMORROW!!!!!! YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OCybrManO
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It is also wise to not assume you know someone solely from reading messages they have posted on a gaming forum.
If you want to get technical about what my "kind" is called... my IQ (tested multiple times in various places) puts me well within the official range for being called a "genius," but you'll never hear me use that term in reference to myself unless belligerent people like yourself persist in insulting me.
Apart from the cool new physics engine, I thought the game was exactly like the first one. Bloody boring actually. the bullet time gimmick wore off in max payne 1 and im not loving it more now cos they added sepia tone to it I appreciate that they tried to improve upon the linear nature of the first game by adding npcs and multiple solutuions to certain.. umm walking.. err puzzles. >.> but it felt like way too little.
Fun, VERY PRETTY game but I'm glad I played a friends copy instead of buying it.
Since when do detectives just run around shooting everyone anyway. are they really that uninspired?
I appreciate that they tried to improve upon the linear nature of the first game by adding npcs and multiple solutuions to certain.. umm walking.. err puzzles. >.> but it felt like way too little. Fun, VERY PRETTY game but I'm glad I played a friends copy instead of buying it.
Since when do detectives just run around shooting everyone anyway. are they really that uninspired?
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