HDR... in or not?

[BaNDiT]

I have a question to people who either got to play HL2 (visits to valve) or CS:S.Is HDR in the game or not? and if it is is it as good as it looks in the hdr source vid?

 

[DarkStar]

Yeah...I'm wondering this too. Is HDR gonna be in HL2 or it gonna be patched in later?

 

[|LGW|Mith]

afaik, it's in. I've seen it in a few cs source pics I think.

 

[Intamin]

afaik, it's in. I've seen it in a few cs source pics I think.

Yeah, who knows? I thought I saw it in one of the de_dust vids--it was reflecting off a yellow floor tile as "your" guy ran through the tunnel. If that's not hdr, then who cares what it's called, it looks awesome!

 

[Mr. Redundant]

afaik, it's in. I've seen it in a few cs source pics I think.

thats not HDR, its faked (if you are thinking of the lighting in the tunnel with the dust)

last thing valve said is that it was too CPU/GPU intensive and was maybe going to be patched in later.

 

[jhero]

it's in... look at the recent pics posted on planethalflife.com

 

[iamaelephant]

Yup definately no HDR in CS:S. HDR does look nice, but isn't a worthy compromise for framerates.

 

[A2597]

too CPU/GPU intensive?

Valve: there are people getting 100+ FPS at high res in the timedemo:

ADD IN HDR! (If it isn't in that is)

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Shmoozy (or however it's spelt) reported HDR to have been in the HL2 he played at Valve.

 

[lans]

Shmoozy (or however it's spelt) reported HDR to have been in the HL2 he played at Valve.

I hope so.

Many people get confused between light blooms, specularity and HDR. It would have been more reassuring if he had asked valve exactly if it was in or not.

 

[Gorgon]

Shmoozy (or however it's spelt) reported HDR to have been in the HL2 he played at Valve.

Yeah, he played the HDR roof demo, and he said its part of the actual game.

 

[blahblahblah]

I'm sorry, HDR is way too overrated. They could be spending that rendering power on better pixel shading effects, better textures, or more geometry.

 

[A2597]

blahblah..

The texture res looks to be no less than 512x512, and more likely 1024x1024.

I don't really see texture releats in ANY screenshots...sooo, forget that.
Pixel shaders look good, not overdone, they hit the "Just right" area I think.

and more geometry? Like what? 5000000 pipes sticking all over the place?

 

[blahblahblah]

blahblah..

The texture res looks to be no less than 512x512, and more likely 1024x1024.

I don't really see texture releats in ANY screenshots...sooo, forget that.
Pixel shaders look good, not overdone, they hit the "Just right" area I think.

and more geometry? Like what? 5000000 pipes sticking all over the place?

You are possibly the first person in the world who would be happier with lower resolution textures. Congratulations.

As for pixel shading, your wrong. PS is what makes games look more realistic. The more PS or more advanced PS we have, the better HL2 will look.

Yeah, I want 500000000 pipes sticking out of the place. When I go for a walk outside I don't see a sqaure building and a perfectly level road. The more geometry there is, the better HL2 will look.

Lets assume that those three things are fine. Valve should add parallax mapping, more bump mapping, more normal mapping, dynamic lighting, dynamic shadowing, etc. I don't think HDR will provide much benefit in games.

 

[qckbeam]

Last I heard it was up in the air. Not many people have the equipment to actually use this particular effect in conjunction with everything else that could be going on in any given scene. It's an expensive effect, and while the Source engine is capable of puling it off (as we all have seen), they were not sure if it was worth the time, and effort, to make an effect so few could really use a part of the base engine when they could be working on other things that would benefit the majority of their user base. They did say that if it wasn't in at launch it would probably be added in sometime in the future.

Edit: BTW, blahblahblah, Valve does in fact have Parralax mapping implemented in the Source engine as it stands right now. Normal mapping is in, and looks quite good really, but is best demonstrated with the flashlight or other dynamic sources of light. Static lights do use the normal maps for lighting calculations, but the overall effect is subtle compared to what we've seen in other games. As for shadowing, well, that's asking for a bit too much. That was Doom3's trademark, and they only pulled it off because they were willing to sacrifice poly counts, texture resolution, physical simulation complexity, and other things in order to save more power for shadows. In a scene, HDR really does add a lot to the overall atmosphere. It's an expensive effect on modern hardware, but it's something Valve really should be working hard on, so that when what we consider high-end or next-gen hardware is common, they can quickly and easily send a little patch to us via steam and unlock it. It's really very dramatic when seen in action, and it adds a whole lot to any scene.

 

[|LGW|Mith]

with steam they'll always be able to easily patch it in later down the road, mabye even for ppl only with certain specs.

 

[Lobster]

Well ive been playing CSS all day and i love it, ive never been so stuck to CS i think i may get into it as my main MP game, its great fun.

Im not exactly sure what HDR is, i know people mistakingly believe it is the glow around gunslits and windows, i know it has somthing to do with the way light is rendered based on ur distance and surrounding, like audio DSP but for light, so when ur inside looking into outdoor areas, they have a really overbrighted look to them, (and vice versa), i already seem to have that in css, but maybe thats just me lol, everyone ive been playing with seems really impressed, the only problems ive found are obvious GUI errors that valve know about.

Just my opinion anyway dudes,

 

[sHm0zY]

hdr = in

 

[qckbeam]

hdr = in

I don't mean to pester you, but are you guessing from what you saw while playing, or did you actually specifically ask this question?

 

[Jorkapp]

HDR is overrated. Frankly I don't care if my video card can emulate how a retina acts, all i want is to play the game.

 

[A2597]

You are possibly the first person in the world who would be happier with lower resolution textures. Congratulations.
I have a 128MB vid card. 99% of games out there use MAX of 1024 textures, theres a REASON for it. Valve said higher res textures will be released once more people can handel it. VERY few people have the 256MB vid cards needed for higher res. and by higher res, I mean more 1024x1024 textures.

As for pixel shading, your wrong. PS is what makes games look more realistic. The more PS or more advanced PS we have, the better HL2 will look.
more != better. Pixel shading is just one of a thousand other things that improve the game image quality. But, apparently, throw enough termanology at someone, and they believe it. The pixel shading in HL2 is more then any other game I can readily think of, perhaps Farcry uses more. certainly not Doom3...and what other game makes frequent use of PS? And HL2 does it BETTER then anyone else so far.

Yeah, I want 500000000 pipes sticking out of the place. When I go for a walk outside I don't see a sqaure building and a perfectly level road. The more geometry there is, the better HL2 will look.
Walk outside. How level are the roads? Unless your in a hilly area, they are flat. In a city, they are almost ALWAYS flat. we have seen hills in HL2's roads anyways. the Buildings. Boxes with windows, awnings, drain pipes...yep, HL2 has all that modeled in. Even *Gasp* the window sills are modeled. What more you want? EVery brick to me mesh, rather then shader? Forget it. We don't need more geometry AFAIK. Looks right now.

Lets assume that those three things are fine. Valve should add parallax mapping, more bump mapping, more normal mapping, dynamic lighting, dynamic shadowing, etc. I don't think HDR will provide much benefit in games.
Why paralax mapping? Normal mapping does pretty much the same thing, as does pixel shading.
From what I can tall, everything that needs bump/normal maps, has them. You want a soda can to use bump mapping or something? (Actually...looked like they did in the 2k3 E3 vid...)
we have dynamic lighting silly. and possibly dynamic shadowing. Dynamic shadowing is nice, I will say, but U3 is the ONLY game to do it properly. Doom3 prooved full dynamic shadowing is horrendous for realistic looking games. I can't think of ANYWHERE where I have seen such sharp shadows in real life. Thus: Lightmaps rule. Or partial dynamic shadowing, which source supports, dunno if it's in HL2 though.

finally, keep in mind. You add one, it will look out of place with the rest. Part of the suspencion of disbelief is keeping things looking right with EACHOTHER. If you suddenly had photorealistic charechters, then the walls and shadows look out of place...

the only exception to the above rule is lighting. And sources lighting looks ace. and HDR is, well, part of lighting.

 

[lans]

A2597 -

Stencil shadows which are dynamic are still much better than lightmaps.

 

[ZeeM]

ok, as far as i know gabe said that there finally will be HDR support.
Don`t remember where I read it...
Maybe in that huge valve mails topic

 

[tEd]

It's not in CS:S beta and Valve isn't sure whether HDR will make it in the initial release of HL2 but if not it will be added with a patch later

 

[Triggerhappy41]

D3 didnt do it right. Razor sharp shadows that are pitch black. How does that look good? Id rather have no shadows at all.

 

[brokenjago]

I'm sorry, HDR is way too overrated. They could be spending that rendering power on better pixel shading effects, better textures, or more geometry.

I have to agree with him.

 

[A2597]

D3 didnt do it right. Razor sharp shadows that are pitch black. How does that look good? Id rather have no shadows at all.

I'd like shadows, but they were horrible.

 

[razorblade kiss]

Shmoozy (or however it's spelt) reported HDR to have been in the HL2 he played at Valve.

Correct. I'm sure they disabled it for CS:S, because with HDR and 30 possible players on screen at once (and who knows whatever else going on) the game would get all chippy choppy.

 

[Kazuki_Fuse]

What I love about the CS:S beta graphics is when you walk up to a bottle, it has a shader that reflects the world that's so damn detailed. When I first saw it I thought it was just a static image but when I took a closer look and moved the bottle around it reflected everything.

I know it's only a beta but I hope they fix up the scope shader issue soon as currently it doesn't reflect dynamically. Rather it's like a map was placed on it of an area, so when you look at the sky for example the scope is shows a road or something like that.

By the way the sunlight through the holes isn't hdr, Ive come to the conclusion that I don't really care that much if they put it in or not. It's not going to effect the way I play the game.

 

[Subz]

kazuki, my scope reflects perfectly and dynamically.

 

[Crusader]

For the seventieth time nobody ever said it wasn't in, one time someone said "if it doesn't get in for some reason..." and everyone jumped on it as if there was no HDR.

Since then it has been explained that HDR is in the game.

 

[CR0M]

D3 didnt do it right. Razor sharp shadows that are pitch black. How does that look good? Id rather have no shadows at all.

wrong

Shadows cast by bright, single point light sources such as a flashlight or direct sunlight have sharp edges, you only get fuzzy edges from indistinct diffused light like sun through cloud or pearl lightbulbs for example.
Fully black shadows exist only if there is one light source, ie. your torch - any other light such as ambient or reflected will reduce the blackness, and the shadows still remain sharp. Shine your flashlight on a lit surface, obviously the shadow won't be black.

D3 is as realistic as shadows get, I suggest you get some new glasses or a better graphics card

 

[Sparta]

You are possibly the first person in the world who would be happier with lower resolution textures. Congratulations.

As for pixel shading, your wrong. PS is what makes games look more realistic. The more PS or more advanced PS we have, the better HL2 will look.

Yeah, I want 500000000 pipes sticking out of the place. When I go for a walk outside I don't see a sqaure building and a perfectly level road. The more geometry there is, the better HL2 will look.

Lets assume that those three things are fine. Valve should add parallax mapping, more bump mapping, more normal mapping, dynamic lighting, dynamic shadowing, etc. I don't think HDR will provide much benefit in games.

Have you seen that HDR program on the net that simulates heavy HDR? Its absolutely AWESOME and blows away anything i've seen from any game. But i doubt it'll be like that in HL2 but no complaints. And i'm sure there's gonna be plenty of normal mapping and shit, but if it isn't, oh well, just as long as the game is good.

Maybe they'll update the Source engine later down the line and we'll be able to see HL2 with parallax mapping and all that shit, then it'll be cool.

 

[|_HeLL_|]

To get a better idea what is HDR in dx9, download this:

http://www.daionet.gr.jp/~masa/rthdribl/

 

[Sparta]

Thats what i was talking about

 

[Mint_Sauce]

HDR would make a big difference IMO. It's a lot more realistic that having rooms lit by just lights and an overall value. Having the geometry lit by HDR would make it look 10x nicer and more realistic. I hope they have it in or at least include it in a patch soon after.

 

[OCybrManO]

wrong

Shadows cast by bright, single point light sources such as a flashlight or direct sunlight have sharp edges, you only get fuzzy edges from indistinct diffused light like sun through cloud or pearl lightbulbs for example.
Fully black shadows exist only if there is one light source, ie. your torch - any other light such as ambient or reflected will reduce the blackness, and the shadows still remain sharp. Shine your flashlight on a lit surface, obviously the shadow won't be black.

D3 is as realistic as shadows get, I suggest you get some new glasses or a better graphics card

I was going to write a long thing on how the lights and shadows in Doom 3 are far from realistic, but it's 10:30AM (about time for me to go to sleep)... so I'll just link to some renders that I want games to look like:

http://graphics.ucsd.edu/~henrik/images/imgs/mie3pm.jpg
http://www.splutterfish.com/sf/spluttergallery/pics/646.jpg
http://www.splutterfish.com/sf/spluttergallery/pics/103.jpg
http://www.splutterfish.com/sf/spluttergallery/pics/154.jpg
http://www.splutterfish.com/sf/spluttergallery/pics/653.jpg
http://www.splutterfish.com/sf/spluttergallery/pics/352.jpg
http://www.splutterfish.com/sf/spluttergallery/pics/260.jpg
http://www.splutterfish.com/sf/spluttergallery/pics/480.jpg
http://www.splutterfish.com/sf/spluttergallery/pics/24.jpg
http://www.splutterfish.com/sf/spluttergallery/pics/56.jpg

 

[SubKamran]

PiMu|\|ro said that HDR was in CS:S beta...but maybe he's wrong

 

[lans]

Yup definately no HDR in CS:S. HDR does look nice, but isn't a worthy compromise for framerates.

I agree.

It's just like going down 10-12 frames, and that's quite a lot in my dictionary. I personally think it's not worth the frames it drops - at least for low end cards. I'm sure the 6800 and X800 would be able to give you playable framerates - but I can expect a major drop in those benchmarks.

 

[Tork]

You can enable HDR and some shader effects now in CS:S by editing 1 config file and adding a line but the dll is not there.