Here's wishing there weren't Episodes

[Dario D.]

This is just a personal preference.
(I can already hear stupid replies from people who don't see the above line.)

- I was just wondering if I'm the only one who wants to sit down and play a good, long game at least twice or three times as much as I want to play a really, really short game, no matter how good it is.

If there's one thing I hate, it's great games that are way too short... especially if they have terrible, unexpected endings. I know Valve is somehow TRYING to say that Episodes 1 and 2 are the same game, as if they SHOULD be played together or thought of together in order to be complete and the most fun, but that's just fluff if you split them in two, and sell them almost a year apart. You can say whatever you want, but that's not how a single person will experience them, because the games are received as two completely different entities, played at two completely different times, each with it's own beginning, middle, and end (and a very disappointing end for Ep 1 because of that).

In my opinion, just from what I like and don't like (this isn't doctrine - just my opinion), video games can't be split into episodes any more than movies can. You wouldn't go watch the first half of X-Men, and then go see the second half a year later. You wouldn't pay to see the first hour of Finding Nemo, and then come back next year to the see the end.

Only movies with really long, elaborate, multi-parted stories can do that, like Lord of the Rings. Just like if HL2 Episode 1 was actually as long as the original HL2, all would be well, because you could fit a good, solid, well-structured and well-concluded segment of the story into a standard-length game.

In my opinion, HL2 could, and probably should have been, called Episode 1, because, like I just mentioned, it takes a good, solid chunk of a grand story and delivers it in full, with a good, satisfying end; the destruction of the Citadel. Now, the next game, Episode 2, should be like Half-Life's The Two Towers, taking the next grand step in the next chapter of the story, and should be worked on until compelted, so that people can watch the "whole movie" when it's done, instead of these little episodes that get nothing done, can hardly tell any story, and are over almost as soon as they start.

So, in short, I know what Valve is trying to do with Episodes... well, okay, I don't... but I just don't see any benefit. All I see is what I've also experienced first-hand; people losing interest in these games, such as SIN: Episodes, because of lousy, short, and ultimately unsatisfying first episodes that simply get nothing done for you. It's like packaging a fancy restaurant's food in paper bags, and handing it out at a drive-thru.

Some of you may like that, and can't wait to get your hands all over it, but people like me look at it and call it such a waste, stripped of its glory in full-form.

Games cannot be chopped up and distributed in tiny, unsatisfying pieces. Like movies, you have to watch the whole thing, and get the whole story... in one experience... And I, like probably many, would very happily wait a long time for a GOOD, long game, than be handed Episodes the moment they're ready. This is just NOT how you deliver this kind of grand story. It has to be an experience... not an Episode.

Okay, 2 dollars, not 2 cents.

 

[MorganFreeman911]

Here's food for thought : Half life 2 took like 4 years at least to make. Possibly 6. Gabe said himself that "We would be making Half-Life 3 untill... (I forget)" I think after the .... it was like "Untill we were in retirement". So that basicially proves that huge huge post of yours, pointless.

 

[Absinthe]

I still need some adjustment to the episodic format, but I welcome it on the whole.

The format allows for short, concentrated bursts of quality without the dull sags of gameplay that every full-lenth title suffers from. It feeds the players entertainment on a more regular basis instead of having to sit in anticipation for five years. But I think the most important aspect is the developer's ability to refine and improve based on the feedback provided to them. Not to mention the steady stream of technical updates, as made evident by trailers of Episode 2.

I honestly didn't have a problem with Ep1's length, nor with its replayability. It was a joy to play through every time, and features like the development commentary are worth at the very least a second playthrough. Money well spent? I think so.

Does it have some kinks to work out? Sure. But I find it promising and a worthwhile investment in content delivery. And hey, if it doesn't work out, Valve has enough money and bankability to revert to the norm.

 

[Dario D.]

Episode 1 has some great gameplay, make no mistake,... but lacks the fanfare and sense of grandeur and scale of a full Half-Life game. All they had to do was combine Ep1 and 2 and they'd have another Half-Life 2. Instead, all they have is gameplay sampling. It's good, but that's ALL it is... and, of course, all the above listed problems that strip away the story's presentation and satisfaction. I enjoyed Ep1 while playing, but was left with a lot of disappointment, and didn't find it half as meaningful as HL2... or even a quarter, though the story continues in the same way.

Here's food for thought : Half life 2 took like 4 years at least to make. Possibly 6. Gabe said himself that "We would be making Half-Life 3 untill... (I forget)" I think after the .... it was like "Untill we were in retirement". So that basicially proves that huge huge post of yours, pointless.

No, it would all be done as soon as Ep2 ships. That's not long at all for a full 12-hour game, which completes the next part of the story.

An expansion never takes as long as the original, because all you have to make is more missions and anything new you may need,... not an entire new engine and endless library of resources, as when you're making a whole new game from scratch.

 

[Absinthe]

Agree to disagree then, since I experienced none of the feelings you did. /shrug

 

[MorganFreeman911]

Actually, you seemed to be implying that you wanted a full blown Sequel. Which Gabe said would take them into retirement to make.

 

[Langolier]

I agree with the OP. I'd rather see a longer expansion and then wait several years for a new game than download lots of three hour episodes.

 

[Dario D.]

Actually, you seemed to be implying that you wanted a full blown Sequel. Which Gabe said would take them into retirement to make.

No need to go into retirement making a new engine and new story and everything. :angel: All they have to do is combine Ep1 and Ep2 to make the next chapter in the Half-Life saga. Half-Life 1 was like "The Hobbit" (Gordon), and Half-Life 2 was like "The Fellowship of the Combine"... and Ep1 and 2 together *should* be "The Two Towers" (which are collapsing). Instead, all the grandeur of HL2 is stripped away and replaced with fast-food gaming.

 

[BrimStone04]

No need to go into retirement making a new engine and new story and everything. :angel: All they have to do is combine Ep1 and Ep2 to make the next chapter in the Half-Life saga. Half-Life 1 was like "The Hobbit" (Gordon), and Half-Life 2 was like "The Fellowship of the Combine"... and Ep1 and 2 together *should* be "The Two Towers" (which are collapsing). Instead, all the grandeur of HL2 is stripped away and replaced with fast-food gaming.

Sounds to me u should leave city 1 7, and go play in mordor, i heard battle for middle earth isnt episodic content, i bet u will love it!

 

[Dario D.]

Hilarious.

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

I understand your viewpoint and agree whole-heartedly. Valve is just slow at making games.

 

[MorganFreeman911]

Quality takes time. That's why The Sims is crap. They pump out expansion packs for It's "Sequel" and the "Sequel" itself was a waste of resources.

Look at their development time thing. HL1 took a few years. HL2 took like 6 years. Then HL3 would take like 12 years to make. And that would surely suck.

Remember, Quality Takes time, and I respect your views on it, it just seems that you're ungrateful and don't care how long it takes. I, on the other hand, actually like short, fun bursts
of the goodness we know and love which is named Half life.

Why not Email VALVe and ask them politely why they didn't decide to make a full blown sequel. I admit that it would have some perks, like a long game. But it would have negatives, like I stated before, examples : Probably new hardware would be needed, and the time it would take would be immense. Let's just agree to disagree. Savvy?

EDIT: largst post I've ever written. PAR-TAY~

EDIT#2:

Sounds to me u should leave city 1 7, and go play in mordor, i heard battle for middle earth isnt episodic content, i bet u will love it!

Nice!

 

[BrimStone04]

I understand your viewpoint and agree whole-heartedly. Valve is just slow at making games.

Would u rather then put out an unfinished game? serously, if HL2 was horrible and not worth the wait then maybe what u said would make sense, but they took a long time and knew when it was time to release it, as a finished game, that is why the HL series it above anything else, cuz its done, when its done....

its like u want HL to become a sports game, new games every year, but then the only difference would be, the quarterbacks eyes are the correct color of the real life players....woopy!!

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

I understand your viewpoint and agree whole-heartedly. Valve is just slow at making games.

You know why VALVe are always late? Because tehy want their games to be perfect. They want their customers to enjoy in the greatest possible way. I'm sure if they wanted to realsease a game on time they could, but it wouldn't be as great.



Episodic Content is quicker, cheaper, and easier to gain feedback. So its better.

EDIT: Damn, two posts saying excactly the same thign appeared before me in the time it took me to write this.

 

[MorganFreeman911]

I love my timing.
EDIT: What we all said means one thing, Most people like Episodic Content.

 

[Asknoone]

I thought Episode 1 was fantastic, and parts were leap and bounds ahead of HL2 and any other shooter on the market. I've adjusted to Episodic content, and I like it as a whole and don't have any gripes whatsoever with it. I'm getting more HL2, sooner and better.

 

[MorganFreeman911]

Samon agrees with me?

And I was always a Episodic supporter because I like short bursts of gaming.

 

[Absinthe]

A good point was made about development time.

It is arguably getting more costly and more time-consuming to make a game. The current standard development paradigm is only going to get more and more slavish at an exponential rate. They started on Half-Life 2 practically straight after the first game, and that took them 6 years. How long would the next full-length title take to make? Would Valve, a developer notorious for taking their sweet time with their products, be willing or even able to keep chugging away on such a thing for even more time? Would the fans? I don't know about you, but I dreaded the prospect of having to wait another 6+ more years, stewing on the cliffhanger of the sequel.

So it's not just about aesthetics or the packaging of their games. It's also about practicality and a pursuit of alternative routes other than the bulking expensive slaveship that's iconic of today's modern development cycle. The fans get their gaming more often, the developers can rest easier with clear, focused, and concise projects, and if some aspect of an episode isn't liked (or is actually reviled entirely), then at least you didn't piss millions of dollars down the drain implementing it throughout a full-lenth title and can rectify yourself with future efforts.

The advantages of this system far outweigh its weaknesses IMO, for both parties. I think it's just a matter of time before it really roots itself in the gaming public's consciousness and is made comfortable. I'm sure we'll still have the long multi-year endeavors of truly epic games (which is something I think will inevitably be in store for Half-Life). But I don't mind at all if episodic content replaces the norm.

 

[MorganFreeman911]

So you agree with me too?
Yay!
And I really think that the origional poster's idea is quite put down.
And, since I want to count this post as On Topic, Episodic gaming was definitly the way to go, so, as you said, they didn't have a bit that everyone hated throuhgout the entire game, and they could fix said bit in a later episode. Or, they could fix said bit in a patch, like what they did for the n00bs in LowLife (Which I still havn't mustered the courage to play through again). Gawd I loved and hated LowLife. It scared me senseless. *Shudder* Stupid headcrabs jumping from the ciling. Anyways, this has been another semi long post brought to you by Gordon.

 

[Absinthe]

I wouldn't say he's been put down. His opinions regarding episodic content are his and they're valid. I just think that it would be suicide to stick with what's becoming of game development.

I will say, however, that retroactive content alteration should be a big no-no. Lowlife, IMO, should never have been changed like that. At the very most, it should have been a difficulty option. But then that's not something that pertains exclusively to episodic content.

 

[MorganFreeman911]

That is quite a good point. They would lose millions, if not Billions on making another full game. But now they're making millions off Episodes and Third Party games like Garry's Mid (Bastard) and *giggle* Dark Messiah of Might and Magic (What a dumb name). That basicially proves our point for us, just look at it from a Statistical view and you can see the smart move that VALVe pulled. Good going, VALVe, I salute you.

 

[99.vikram]

Episodic gaming is like a fine dining experience where every morsel is a delight. It's in a league of it's own. Then there's the supersized order of junk food...

 

[Dario D.]

Why does everyone think it would take another 12 years to complete a full-length Half-Life game?

Episode 2 is already almost DONE (Gamespy: TBA 2006). There are only four months left in 2006.

Half-Life 2 came out in November 2004, so that means that it took exactly 2 years to make another 12 hours of gameplay... not 12 years.

So, if every 2 years they can crank out 12 hours of gameplay, that's a whole new game every two years - standard developement cycle, just like every other game. What we're getting instead - at least the way I see it - is bunch of tiny games with bad endings. Imagine if every game were made like this; released in episodes.

 

[Mirror Image]

So you believe that Episode 3 won't take forever to get here?

So, you're saying if they made all three episodes into one game, you'd wait for it, and it would be better than playing 4-6 hour episodes?

So, you're saying you'd rather play it as one game.

So, you're saying nobody is going to play all three at once, like it should be played?

Dario, my friend. We control the game we play. If you believe they'd be better played together, when Episode 2 comes out buy it, but don't play it. When episode 3 comes out, buy it and play through it from 1-3.

Now if Episode 4 is being made like I read on Wiki, you can always wait for 4 to come out.

The question is, can you? Is Half Life not a good enough game that neither man nor beast can resist and urge to play it when it is just sitting in one's Steam account.

You're only human. We forgive you.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

Well put
Episode Four is coming. PC Gamer said so a while ago.

 

[ríomhaire]

But it won't be a continuation of the other 3

 

[Vass]

I acctually agree with the thread author on this. I think Episodic content will be okay for 3 games, but I like the origional style of the Half Life games where it takes hours and hours and hours to play opposed to a 4 night sitting (It took me maybe 4 nights to finish EP1). It took much longer to finish HL1 and HL2.

Everyone remeber when HL2 came out and destroyed all other games out there. I just would rather wait for HL3 with another technological explosion than playing HL2 in episodes.

 

[kupocake]

I'm not sold on Episodic yet, but i'm not against it either. Sin Episodes Emergence was just a plain poor game, episode or no. HL2EP1 was a great game with large gaping holes in story advancement, weapons and enemies, that were actually completely viable. If Episode Two comes out with few new weapons, enemies and plot revelations, THEN i'll be against episodic. For now, episode one wasn't all that different to playing the first third of any game, and I can't say i'm disappointed.

I will say one thing though: EA need to get their act together in the UK. £20 RRP on an episode is bloody extortionate (double the price the game is via Steam). It's like they actually want people to give up on buying retail packages and go for online distribution.

 

[ríomhaire]

I'm not sold on Episodic yet, but i'm not against it either. Sin Episodes Emergence was just a plain poor game, episode or no. HL2EP1 was a great game with large gaping holes in story advancement, weapons and enemies, that were actually completely viable. If Episode Two comes out with few new weapons, enemies and plot revelations, THEN i'll be against episodic. For now, episode one wasn't all that different to playing the first third of any game, and I can't say i'm disappointed.

Well, AFAWK EP2 only has 1 new weapon and 1 new enemy but fighting striders and antlions is probably going to play very differently in EP2.

I will say one thing though: EA need to get their act together in the UK. £20 RRP on an episode is bloody extortionate (double the price the game is via Steam). It's like they actually want people to give up on buying retail packages and go for online distribution.

Same here, €30, twice the Steam price :bonce:

 

[DevgruSeal]

Someone in here said exactly what I was thinking.

Feedback is easier to get from episodes. They wait a month, gather statistics (STEAM, ftw) on it, and base the mechanics of the next episode, what people liked, what the didn't, where they had problems, kinks they need to straighten out, etc. off of that.

Half-Life 2 took me about 8 days to finish. I found it much easier to play the Episodes than HL2. Most people don't sit down for 15+ hours and play one game that long. You get fatigued. It's that simple. Episodic content helps cut that back.

Can anyone tell me they've actually played HL2 that long with no breaks at all...?

 

[Max35]

Episodic content also means Valve can takes more *risks* with the gameplay.

 

[Langolier]

I think episodic content is a good strategy to employ for a while. Valve can experiment and perfect things with the Source engine... but eventually I would like to see a fully developed third game. It doesn't need to be on an entirley new engine... but it needs to feel like a new game and not an expansion set or series of expansion sets.

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

I for one will wait for the episodes to be completed before I play them. I have no desire yet to get Episode 1, and the desire for 2 has faded.

All I can think about is Wii Wii Wii! and how it took them less than 3 years to go from Wind Waker to Twilight Princess, and you know it will be a masterfully executed game.

Most people don't sit down for 15+ hours and play one game that long. You get fatigued. It's that simple. Episodic content helps cut that back.

Can anyone tell me they've actually played HL2 that long with no breaks at all...?

Since you asked, I have played both CS:S and UT2k3 for 16 hours without stopping. HL2 didn't enthrall me as much so I played it over a week.

 

[DevgruSeal]

Those are multiplayer games. There is a difference between playing HL2 for 15+ hours, and playing CSS/UT for 16+ hours.

HL2 = Single player. You've no conversation amongst other gamers.
CSS/UT = Interaction between several gamers at a time..a la mm1.

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

Those are multiplayer games. There is a difference between playing HL2 for 15+ hours, and playing CSS/UT for 16+ hours.

HL2 = Single player. You've no conversation amongst other gamers.
CSS/UT = Interaction between several gamers at a time..a la mm1.

Eh I played UT2k3 on single player start to finish, so that point is moot.
But I did agree with you if you didn't notice, I don't think HL2 is awesome enough to have an endurance session.

That's a really stupid reason to favor episodes over complete games, though.
Nothing forces anyone to play anything for any period of time.

 

[DevgruSeal]

My point with that was these people that complain about wanting a "sit down game." Well..You got one. You just don't get the 15 continuous friggin' hours in the episodes. You want a sit down game, sit down, and play Episode 1.

 

[MorganFreeman911]

Good point, Devgru. I don't know how I keep churning out long-ish posts, but oh well. As I stated before. The cost wold be too high to make another full game currently.

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

It is my understanding every game that isn't aerobically motivated is a "sit down game".

 

[Wally_Breen]

IMO these episode's combined are what BFV is to BF1942, what BF2142 is to BF2, what MOHAA is to Quake 3, What HL1 is to Quake 1, & what Quake 4 is to Doom3. Just minor adjustments to the engine to keep it up to par. So its basically it does what a mod does.

 

[BrimStone04]

IMO these episode's combined are what BFV is to BF1942, what BF2142 is to BF2, what MOHAA is to Quake 3, What HL1 is to Quake 1, & what Quake 4 is to Doom3. Just minor adjustments to the engine to keep it up to par. So its basically it does what a mod does.

well u cant expect the engine to be hugely updated in such a short time....the differences in HL2 and EP1 were awesome for such a short time, and look at EP2 compared to HL2, even bigger...u cant just expect another HL vs HL2. that wouldnt make sense to put THAT much effort into an episode, BECAUSE THE WHOLE POINT OF EPISODIC CONTENT, IS TO GET IT TO THE GAMERS FASTER!!!!! THERE NOW U HATERS GET IT?