HizbAllah kills 12 Israelis

[Nemesis6]

After the attack on Qana, which the IDF has now concluded was a mistake as they didn't think anyone was in the building, the death cult(and no, I'm not talking about Palestinian society) HizbAllah has killed 12 Israelis.

Hizbollah guerrillas killed eight people in a rocket barrage on
Israel and four Israeli soldiers in clashes in Lebanon on Thursday, the deadliest day of the war for Israel in 23 days of fighting.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060803/ts_nm/mideast1_dc

 

[Ome_Vince]

"If you strike Beirut, the Islamic Resistance will strike Tel Aviv and it is able to do so," Nasrallah said

Why constantly smeer Islam over this, Nasrallah ****head.

 

[SenorDingDong]

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article1212770.ece

 

[Mechagodzilla]

I love how people pick sides in this conflict.

Bonus points for the "HezbALLLLLAH" thing.

I'm assuming that the focus on their religion is to show you are either a devout christian or jewish yourself, from whose 'value' systems stem your support of Israel, in much the same way ALLLLLAH causes your intense dismay.

What non-religious reason is there to support either side?

 

[Nemesis6]

Why do you write Allah with so many L's?

What non-religious reason I have is this: Well... look at what SenorDingDong posted in immediate response to hearing about the deaths of 12 people, he rationalized it. That's one of the reasons I posted this, to see how the apologists would react. Well, that and the fact that 12 people were killed by a death cult. The United Nations, along with dumb people everywhere, say that calling these mass-murderers 'terrorists' is "not helpful".

 

[Mechagodzilla]

I asked you why you support Israel at all.
All you've given there are (frankly rather poor) reasons to hate Hezbollah.

Namely, your arguments can be summarized as follows:

1) Hezbollah unintentionally kills civilians for religious reasons.

2) Hating Hezbollah might bother "apologists", who are "rational" and (therefore?) "dumb".

Point #1 is silly because Israel has clearly killed far more than eight civilians in this latest conflict. Israel is also, overall, killing civilians in the name of a religion and doing so with a good deal of intentionality - as DingDong's link accurately points out.

So, you should logically hate both Israel and Hezbollah, as they are both faith-fueled killing machines.
Yet you only hate the one and not the other.

Point #2 is even sillier. As I've already pointed out, rational people support neither side.
Unpleasant truths are not apologism, thus calling people who don't support Israel "terrorist apologists" implies that Israel holds some sort of moral high ground over the terrorists in this conflict - one which you have not illustrated.
Also, rationality and stupidity are mutually exclusive antonyms.
Not to mention that supporting a political group just to "hurt" people you dislike is a silly way to go about thinking.


So, again: what non-religious reason is there to support either side?

 

[Is This Tea]

Why do you write Allah with so many L's?

It’s a joke. It would be like saying, “your title is teh awesome.”

Edit: On second thought… I bet you were being sarcastic. Sorry.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

HezbALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLAH

 

[Ome_Vince]

I asked you why you support Israel at all.
All you've given there are (frankly rather poor) reasons to hate Hezbollah.

Namely, your arguments can be summarized as follows:

1) Hezbollah intentionally kills civilians for religious reasons.

2) Hating Hezbollah might bother "apologists", who are "rational" and (therefore?) "dumb".

See, here's allready something i allready disagree with, so i editted it.
Hezbollah, specifically targets civilians.

Point #1 is silly because Israel has clearly killed far more than eight civilians in this latest conflict. Israel is also, overall, killing civilians in the name of a religion and doing so with a good deal of intentionality - as DingDong's link accurately points out.

So, you should logically hate both Israel and Hezbollah, as they are both faith-fueled killing machines.
Yet you only hate the one and not the other.

Point #2 is even sillier. As I've already pointed out, rational people support neither side.
Unpleasant truths are not apologism, thus calling people who don't support Israel "terrorist apologists" implies that Israel holds some sort of moral high ground over the terrorists in this conflict - one which you have not illustrated.
Also, rationality and stupidity are mutually exclusive antonyms.
Not to mention that supporting a political group just to "hurt" people you dislike is a silly way to go about thinking.


So, again: what non-religious reason is there to support either side?

Total bullshit. There is no reason to support Israel for any religious reasons. There is only 1 side pulling to religion constantly, and its not Israel.
Israel consists mainly of jewish people, but has a large Islamic population of Israeli arabs.
It also has about 4% of Christians. Hezbollah contains Muslims and apologises for Muslim deaths in Israel but not for Jewish or Christian deaths.

As i've stated before, the reason i think the comparisson cannot be made, since Israel is a nation fighting for survival, and Hezbollah is an extremist organisation fighting for destruction of Israel.

 

[Element Alpha]

Found this in the depth of the internets:

This speech by the former President of Weizmann Institute of Science, Haim Harari is a lesson that the politicians and the Media would do well to learn. I doubt that they will either read or absorb the lessons in this insightful analysis of Terror and what it means towhat we call civilization. This is not a trite 'sound byte' for the Media to toss of with a a one liner. Harari is not the average person speaking his mind but, rather like listening to the thoughts of an Einstein. Most journalists and politicians do not have time for deep thinkers who have matured over the years into wise men with vision. In fact, they simply do not want to know and pursue ignorance as the safest course. Well, perhaps a few will take the time to read and absorb. This is a very insightful speech given by Haim Harari, the former International Advisory Board of a large multi-national corporation, April, 2004. It's very well worth reading. (click the link below to read)

Clicky:
UNDECLARED WWIII By Haim Harari

:thumbs:

 

[Ome_Vince]

Good read, thanks for the link

 

[Korgoth]

See, here's allready something i allready disagree with, so i editted it.
Hezbollah, specifically targets civilians.



Total bullshit. There is no reason to support Israel for any religious reasons. There is only 1 side pulling to religion constantly, and its not Israel.
Israel consists mainly of jewish people, but has a large Islamic population of Israeli arabs.
It also has about 4% of Christians. Hezbollah contains Muslims and apologises for Muslim deaths in Israel but not for Jewish or Christian deaths.

As i've stated before, the reason i think the comparisson cannot be made, since Israel is a nation fighting for survival, and Hezbollah is an extremist organisation fighting for destruction of Israel.

You've still failed to point out why you support what Israel is doing in return. You did say that they are fighting for survival, so tell me, the soldiers that were kidnapped (which is what started this), had they not ever been returned (which they haven't yet) Israel would vanish (which it hasn't)? Or are they assuring their survival by commiting genocide against people who are likely to hate them? If so, is that what you support?

And before you attempt to bend and twist my words to make me look like I support hezbollah, don't bother. I am still firm, I support neither side, innocent people are dying, thats what I care about.

 

[The Monkey]

You misspelled Hezbollah

 

[VictimOfScience]

Why constantly smeer Islam over this, Nasrallah ****head.

Probably for the same reason Osama does: to try to get Muslims everywhere to unite in a war against the infidels(i.e. everyone else in the world) to re-establish the glory of the Caliphate. Won't work too well here though, just as the miscalculated response to 9/11 didn't work either.

Attacking Tel-Aviv won't work for them either, esp in terms of world opinion.

 

[Lt. Drebin]

You did say that they are fighting for survival, so tell me, the soldiers that were kidnapped (which is what started this), had they not ever been returned (which they haven't yet) Israel would vanish (which it hasn't)? Or are they assuring their survival by commiting genocide against people who are likely to hate them? If so, is that what you support?

Few things here,

There's a tad more to the current situation than what has happened over the past 2-3 weeks. Lets call this what it is...another moment in a 60 year conflict. If you honestly believe that this current situation is only about two kidnapped soldiers...you're not paying attention. Understanding why they are where they are is of critical importance in this debate.

Yes, this is genocide *HEAVY SARCASM*. The systematic and calculated extermination of a group of people. This is nonsense. It goes from murdering Lebanese to genocide....are you f***ing kidding. You're mentally ill if you believe that IDF is purposefully and maliciously killing innocent Lebanese.

And, we've already established that they've been extremely uncalculated in this battle....IAF in particular. Carpet bombing a whole city for maybe 100 Hezbollah soldiers is unacceptable, but no less so than a group of Hezbollah soldiers that fires rockets at Israeli civilians from a Lebanese family's backyard. If innocent losses are going to be stemmed, either Israel is going to have to start putting more forces on the ground (which they seem to be doing now) or Hezbollah is going to have to start fighting away from heavily populated areas (far less likely....more or less their only way to survive this).

And before you attempt to bend and twist my words to make me look like I support hezbollah, don't bother. I am still firm, I support neither side, innocent people are dying, thats what I care about.

I don't think anyone here would say you support Hezbollah. You're post is clear enough. The problem with this current spot is simple...innocent people will continue to die every day if these organizations are not stopped. Be it rocket attacks on northern Israel, suicide bombers in Tel Aviv or Israeli responses to these attacks innocent death will contine. Even if this current conflict was not occuring, innocent people would still be dying.

 

[Ome_Vince]

You've still failed to point out why you support what Israel is doing in return. You did say that they are fighting for survival, so tell me, the soldiers that were kidnapped (which is what started this), had they not ever been returned (which they haven't yet) Israel would vanish (which it hasn't)?

Ah, ok, so lets forget years of history preceeding this event. Lets also forget the 8 soldiers killed in that attack and the town shelled. Lets all blame Israel for not going into negotiation after this assault, for thats what we would do right?... Ever hear of the drop that made the bucket spill?

Or are they assuring their survival by commiting genocide against people who are likely to hate them? If so, is that what you support?

Funny, last time i checked it isnt genocide. If you want to look at modern day genocide, look at what the Islamic government in Sudan is doing to its black christian population. THOUSANDS a day.
This conflict in scale isnt even close to the many other conflicts going on, so dont even dare call this a genocide, that just smells like pure propaganda.

If you look at the goals:
-Hezbollah: anihilate Israel
-Israel: survive

Its obvious.
Its so funny they try to make Hezbollah look like a "resistance movement". WTF are they resisting? => i know: the fact that there is a jewish state down south... (hence all the lines attempted to be drawn to Islam..the apologise when Muslim Israeli children are killed etc i hope one day muslims stand up and slap down these rediculous terrorist idiots shattering Islam's name)

And before you attempt to bend and twist my words to make me look like I support hezbollah, don't bother. I am still firm, I support neither side, innocent people are dying, thats what I care about.

Waw, thats great. Nobody cared or noticed the Israeli innocent people that have been dying for years (often women and children).
Yes, i care when innocent civilians die, thats why i'm so keen to remove Hezbollah, to PREVENT this kind of crap in the future.

Also, seriously, i wish people didnt put it into a black and white picture:
"If you support israel = you like to bomb innocent children"
Thats just rediculous.
I support Israel's right to defend itself against criminal organisations who are only out to anihilate a certain nation.
Organisations that are so deep into society, that they control an entire part of the country, and on top are also in the parliament.

However, i agree, Israel's tactics are the worst thing they could do to counter that, => its like trying to bomb the maffia.
But its not a black & white situation as many try to make it look, and i wish people would look at how to prevent these conflicts for BOTH SIDES.
For starters, lets put a huge load of pressure on Syria and Iran, so they stop sponsoring and arming these terrorist organisations and rape countries like Lebanon...
You think Lebanon actually cared about what Hezbollah wanted? No!, Hezbollah cant be removed by Lebanon without a civil war because its armed to the teeth by Iran and Syria,.. and the reason the civilian side got voted into the parliament is because its gaining votes with its community work.
Nobody gave a shit about Hezbollah's goals to anihilate Israel and turn Lebanon into a second Iran, certainly not the 35% christians living in Lebanon..

Interestingly enough, in game terms you can describe the situation pretty well; "Israel should be seen as the Counter-Terrorists accidentally slaughtering the hostages due to rediculous tactics while trying to hunt down the terrorists..."

This comparisson is not rediculing or meant as a joke, i thought it describes the situation pretty well.

 

[Sulkdodds]

I still don't understand your compulsion to write paragraphs and paragraphs beyond "Israel are bastards and Hezbollah are bastards", constantly saying things like "Israel has the right to defend itself" but never actually going beyond the former "bastards" statement.

If you see what I mean.

You're mentally ill if you believe that IDF is purposefully and maliciously killing innocent Lebanese.

Why?

I haven't seen any evidence that they're not apart from 'trust' that they aren't that barmy, and their own statements.

Meanwhile, evidence that they are deliberately targetting civilians is circumstantial at best, but is present.

I do not believe they are targetting civilians deliberately; rather, I believe that they don't care. But to dismiss the possibility outright seems far more 'ill' than to consider it.

 

[Korgoth]

I still don't understand your compulsion to write paragraphs and paragraphs beyond "Israel are bastards and Hezbollah are bastards", constantly saying things like "Israel has the right to defend itself" but never actually going beyond the former "bastards" statement.

If you see what I mean.

Why?

I haven't seen any evidence that they're not apart from 'trust' that they aren't that barmy, and their own statements.

Meanwhile, evidence that they are deliberately targetting civilians is circumstantial at best, but is present.

I do not believe they are targetting civilians deliberately; rather, I believe that they don't care. But to dismiss the possibility outright seems far more 'ill' than to consider it.

Precisely.

The reason I don't go around making posts about how evil, and wrong the tactics employed by hamas/hezbollah/al qaida etc. is because I assume it to be evident that they are horrible. But everyone seems to think Israel is some poor defensless nobody, who is always getting bitten and only sits on their hands because they wouldn't hurt a fly. Which is bullshit. I agree %100 with Sulkdodds here.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

...which is exactly what I was saying, also.

In this thread, it was discovered that eight civilians died when Hezbollah attacked four Iraeli soldiers.

In an attempt to kill Hezbollah, Israel is randomly bombing a large civilian population, undoubtedly killing far more civilians than soldiers as well.

"There is no reason to support Israel for any religious reasons."

Well obviously there's no reason, but you would have to be in a box to miss that the entire conflict started over religion in the first place, and that nearly all of Israel's international support comes from christians who believe that jews are god's chosen people and must inherit the middle-east for the end-times to come (and, consequently, wipe the jews from the face of the Earth).

Again though, no-one has yet given a single non-religious reason to support either side.

 

[Ome_Vince]

I still don't understand your compulsion to write paragraphs and paragraphs beyond "Israel are bastards and Hezbollah are bastards", constantly saying things like "Israel has the right to defend itself" but never actually going beyond the former "bastards" statement.

If you see what I mean.

I've made my statements clear, thats not what i'm after: what i'm doing with these paragraphs is countering people that see things black and white and dont understand the situation or its history.

I'm not saying Israel is not to blame, its not black & white like:
-100% Hezbollah's fault vs innocent helpless Israel
or
-100% evil Israel's fault vs hezbollah to whatever.

Thats my sole purpose with this, to provide a voice for the other side of the fence (Israel).
Blame for these bad tactics or an event easily turns into generalisation of the blame for the entire conflict + history by many, which is "not fair" to say the least.

You can see it happening: many people start to assume or imply Israel is doing all kinds of "evil" things on purpose or with some "conspiracy theory behind it".

Ranging from all kinds of stuff like the UN bombing, the refugees, the liberty etc etc.
In that case, Israel's army is the most effecient army in the world, without a single pure unfortunate error (which normally happens alot in war).

Hezbollah carries by far the largest part of the blame for this conflict. Not by just the "8 killed soldiers, the shelled town and kidnapped 2 soldiers" for thats taking 1 incident out of context. The drop that made the bucket spill which has been filled by many years of brutal terrorizing...

 

[Nemesis6]

Three people killed, 86 hurt as rockets pound northern Israel

Three people were killed and at least 86 more were wounded, one critically and five seriously, as rockets landed across the North on Friday.

A barrage of rockets landed near Karmiel just before 6 p.m., killing two people in the villages of Majdal Krum and Dir el-Assad.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1154525805493&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

 

[Mechagodzilla]

So, Omevince.

You support Israel because:

1) They are the more efficient, less brutal killers.
2) We don't understand "the history" of "terrorizing".

Claiming that israel has never made a single military mistake is silly.
Supporting their killing just because they're good at it is likewise silly.

Saying that the arab-israeli conflict is largely or even entirely not Israel's fault is silly also, as you have failed to ennumerate any reason why they would be justified in that belief.

Again, you haven't provided a single non-religious reason to support either side.


Likewise, the appropriately named "Nemesis6" has not done so either, and continues to post links about the evils of HezbALLLLAH without providing any alternative viewpoint.
Golly, three killed in rocket attacks. It's a good thing that no civilians have died yet in Lebanon.

 

[Nemesis6]

Alternative viewpoint?! 8 people were killed! How many ways do you need to see it? Holy moly...

 

[Mechagodzilla]

If you're going by death count alone, you should be supporting Hezbollah.
Of course, a rational person would support neither.

I have asked why you support Israel as an alternative to Hezbollah and you have failed to do so.

Everyone agrees that Hezbollah is bad. Now why do you insist that Israel is better?

 

[Ome_Vince]

Mecha, please reread my posts, your reply indicates you didnt understand it.

 

[Nemesis6]

Mecha, here's my response -

HizbAllah is a death cult that cynically abuses the civilians of Lebanon, threatens to, and have terrorized and killed Jews worldwide, and undermine the so-called "democracy" of Lebanon. They have openly declared that THEY will form a new Middle-East formed by Islam. They are a branch of radical Islam and the tree is Iran/Syria.

Israel is a state created for the people who came out of the Holocaust and antiSemitism of Europe, Africa, and everywhere on the planet.

 

[DeusExMachina]

Was that country not originally for the Palestinians? Hell, they were even there before the Jews. I'm not saying the Jews shouldn't live there either, but there's a lot more this than just kidnapped soldiers or some battles. This has gone on over a thousand years. And to be fair, the Palestinians held it longer than the Jews. How would you feel to get kicked out of your home? I mean...damn. Everything's ****ed up with this. Israelis and Hezbollah are just making things worse. Each side favoring intense rocket attacks that kill civilians. Neither side is looking good. And my piece of shit president and his bullshit administration aren't even calling for cease fires.

 

[Bait]

Was that country not originally for the Palestinians? Hell, they were even there before the Jews. I'm not saying the Jews shouldn't live there either, but there's a lot more this than just kidnapped soldiers or some battles. This has gone on over a thousand years. And to be fair, the Palestinians held it longer than the Jews. How would you feel to get kicked out of your home? I mean...damn. Everything's ****ed up with this. Israelis and Hezbollah are just making things worse. Each side favoring intense rocket attacks that kill civilians. Neither side is looking good. And my piece of shit president and his bullshit administration aren't even calling for cease fires.

You, my good sir, rock.

 

[Nemesis6]

Was that country not originally for the Palestinians? Hell, they were even there before the Jews. I'm not saying the Jews shouldn't live there either, but there's a lot more this than just kidnapped soldiers or some battles. This has gone on over a thousand years. And to be fair, the Palestinians held it longer than the Jews. How would you feel to get kicked out of your home? I mean...damn. Everything's ****ed up with this. Israelis and Hezbollah are just making things worse. Each side favoring intense rocket attacks that kill civilians. Neither side is looking good. And my piece of shit president and his bullshit administration aren't even calling for cease fires.

That country? What country? The only country that was created for the Palestinians was Jordan. Israel was to be a home to both Arabs and Jews. The Palestinians did not hold the area longer than the Jews, and the Jews were there way before the Palestinians. Way as in about a couple thousand years before. After all, it is the cradle of Jewish culture, religion, and life. And what do you mean by "kicked out of your home"? Please explain what you mean by that. If you meant Lebanon when you said "that country", then no, Lebanon got their independance from France in the 1940s. By the way, these Palestinians, the majority of them came along with the Jews during the Zionist immigration in the 1880s and early 1900s.

 

[DeusExMachina]

My bad, I was talking about Muslims, not Palestinians. Muslims had held onto that land longer than the Jews had. And it was a mostly Muslim population post-WWII after Jews were given the land.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Mecha, please reread my posts, your reply indicates you didnt understand it.

I read your post full well.
You said that Israel isn't 100% good but still better, because they are "precise" instead of "terrorists".

If that isn't an accurate summary, please explain how.

DXM is quite correct.

This conflict is going nowhere when your sole justification for fighting is how you were already fighting decades ago so you can't stop now.
It's a religious war for war's sake.
The petty conflict(s) that started this are long forgotten and were never worth it in the first place.


Just look at "Nemesis6" as an example of how not to act.

He spends a full paragraph explaining how palestine is Satan incarnate. Or even worse: ALLAH!
Yet his only - only - rational reason to support identical people is that the jews simply "deserve" the territory more.
"Nyah nyah I touched it first it's mine" is presented as a war cry.

Is it accurate to call Israel and Palestine regressive when they've never gone higher than zero?

 

[Element Alpha]

If you want to understand, you will read
http://www.freeman.org/m_online/jul04/harari.htm

If you don't read it, you're just enjoying the sound or your voice (or rather the shape of your sentences). Friendly reminder: You won't find one serious israeli point of view explained in this forum.

It takes around 15 minutes to read. Do it.

 

[Ome_Vince]

I read your post full well.
You said that Israel isn't 100% good but still better, because they are "precise" instead of "terrorists".

If that isn't an accurate summary, please explain how.

DXM is quite correct.

He's actually not. If he's refering to "controlled by Muslims" yes he's right, but Israel's original areas (with the exception of Jerusalem)
was mostly populated by Jews, and Jewdism is hundreds if not thousands of years older than Islam.
Jewish capitol, homeland has always been Israel, hence the start of "zionism" => return to zion.

Nevertheless, if we want that debate, sure, but this debate was about the Lebanon Crisis and Hezbollah,

Also, about the 100% part, Israel is "better" than Hezbollah, since its a democratic nation vs an organisation out for terrorism and war.
And if civilian casualties is your argument, than we're no better than any terrorist organisation in the world.
We've killed more civilians than any terrorist organisation.
Even bombing Kosovo back to the stone age took a good load of civilian casualties.

This conflict is going nowhere when your sole justification for fighting is how you were already fighting decades ago so you can't stop now.
It's a religious war for war's sake.
The petty conflict(s) that started this are long forgotten and were never worth it in the first place.

First of all, i'm not refering to fightings 60 years ago, this is just 6 years ago! Something that continiously has been going on for the last 20 years!
There's no way you can just shove that under the rug.
Religious war? yes i agree, though these organisations are just criminal, for i dont see any religious people blow themselves up, its always kids, social outcasts and people with a mental disorder.
Its these criminal nutcases indoctrinating other people to do the dirtywork.

Just look at "Nemesis6" as an example of how not to act.

He spends a full paragraph explaining how palestine is Satan incarnate. Or even worse: ALLAH!
Yet his only - only - rational reason to support identical people is that the jews simply "deserve" the territory more.
"Nyah nyah I touched it first it's mine" is presented as a war cry.

Is it accurate to call Israel and Palestine regressive when they've never gone higher than zero?

I'm not responsible for Nemesis's response aye?

"Jews deserve the territory more?" If you want the Israeli territory debate, let me know, this is about the Lebanese war and Hezbollah.

Also, the article Element Alpha is presenting is an interesting read. It is worth reading for sure.

EDIT
Interesting interview with a Lebanese women on CNN today, she said something like this when asked what a solution was:
"We want a cease fire, let us live in peace, and we ask the England, France, United States to help us, let them disarm Hezbollah, we've had a war for 30 years and now again, if Iran wants this war, let them fight it on their land, on their children"

 

[Nemesis6]

He spends a full paragraph explaining how palestine is Satan incarnate. Or even worse: ALLAH!
Yet his only - only - rational reason to support identical people is that the jews simply "deserve" the territory more.

You like putting words in peoples' mouths when you can't counter their arguments, don't you...

 

[Kangy]

I'm so tired of both sides finding excuses for killing each other that frankly, they should both go ahead and bomb each other to shit and maybe stop ****ing around with the whole "oh but Israel did ___" and "Hezbollah killed ____ Israelis!" business.

 

[SenorDingDong]

how come nobodys stopped them yet?

 

[Mechagodzilla]

You like putting words in peoples' mouths when you can't counter their arguments, don't you...

What argument?

You gave me a sentence, which I accurately summarized:

"Israel is a state created for the people who came out of [...] antiSemitism"

So jews "earned" the country by being victimized.
That's the only reason you've given.


"If you want the Israeli territory debate, let me know, this is about the Lebanese war and Hezbollah."

Alright then:

Two people were kidnapped. Does that justify randomly bombing a large civillian population?
No, duh.
Is kidnapping good?
No, duh.

There, debate over. The obvious answer is immediate ceasefire, and maybe a cease-retardedness while they're at it.
Neither side is justified, and neither side has presented and non-religious reason to act as they do.
You certainly haven't, besides the twin crutch of tradition and "Zionist Jewdism" (spelt Judaism by the rest of us).

Now, if you'd like to go into the actual root causes of what's going on, you'd see that they are equally retarded as well. The territory used to be shared, controlled by one group and occupied largely by the other, much like Harlem in the US.
Why couldn't it be shared now?
There is no good non-religious reason (and therefore no good reason at all).

 

[Sulkdodds]

I definitely agree with Mecha in this:

Both sides are wrong now.
"But look at the history! If you think this is just about the kidnappings you're wrong!"
Both sides were always wrong?

 

[Ennui]

Oh, how I love it when Mecha argues. It's like Godzilla raping Tokyo.

 

[Ome_Vince]

Alright then:

Two people were kidnapped. Does that justify randomly bombing a large civillian population?
No, duh.
Is kidnapping good?
No, duh.

Disregarding the 8 killed and the town shelled preceeded by years of shelling, ofcourse not.
But thats not what they're after, your question is loaded as it implies Israel is randomly bombing a large civilian population.
If that were the case, considering the amounts of bombs dropped, there would be thousands of dead at least.
They're using a cannon to shoot a fly, bad tactics, which i dont agree with, but i also disagree with statements being made as if Israel is deliberatly targetting civilians, or the comparissons with Hezbollah.
There's not a single credible argument other than: "they killed civies" that i've heard, and if that were the case, we're no better than Hezbollah either: *kuch Kosovo *kuch.

There, debate over. The obvious answer is immediate ceasefire, and maybe a cease-retardedness while they're at it.
Neither side is justified, and neither side has presented and non-religious reason to act as they do.
You certainly haven't, besides the twin crutch of tradition and "Zionist Jewdism" (spelt Judaism by the rest of us).

O RLY? So defence is religious, cool, i'll remember that.
Israeli jews might pull the "Jews Victim card" once in a while, but there's only 1 side constantly pulling to religion as a justification for constant terror and anihilation.

Israel will commit a cease-fire if an international force comes in to disarm Hezbollah, which is the only thing that can ensure peace for a longer period of time.
Ever take the time to dig a bit into history? Lets say start in the 70's? You'll see this exact same situation repeat itself due to terrorist organisations harbouring in the South of Lebanon firing rockets into Israel.
How to solve the problem??? => thats easy: disarm Hezbollah, and ensure no organisation takes its place...

Now, if you'd like to go into the actual root causes of what's going on, you'd see that they are equally retarded as well. The territory used to be shared, controlled by one group and occupied largely by the other, much like Harlem in the US.
Why couldn't it be shared now?
There is no good non-religious reason (and therefore no good reason at all).

What are you talking about? Are you refering to Palestine or the Lebanon issue? For Israel is not controlling any Lebanese grounds and Lebanon never controlled any parts of Israel -> Jorden, Egypt and Syria did, along with what we're now calling the Palestinians.

Israel might be a Jewish state, but large portions of Israeli muslims live there, along with a good portion of Christians.
Its a nation, not a freekin Zionist organisation ffs.