HL2 - Missed the Bar...

[Mr-Fusion]

That's the main principle of advertising: if you tell people something long enough soon they will start to believe it... I have a critical mind and I am not accustomed to swallowing everything people tell me I should like. It would be stupid to try to convince myself this is the best game ever just because most people gave it A's.

I'm just curious, since Half-Life 1 release what FPS games have you really enjoyed?

 

[The Last One]

That's the main principle of advertising: if you tell people something long enough soon they will start to believe it... I have a critical mind and I am not accustomed to swallowing everything people tell me I should like. It would be stupid to try to convince myself this is the best game ever just because most people gave it A's.

very well said.

 

[Spartan]

You said it yourself, you expected other characters to tell you the story. That's not how it's done in Hl2. The characters give you hints and that's it.

That's not what I said. I said:

Instead, Gordon is sleepwalking through everything without giving a shit about what's going on, not that anyone has the time or interest to explain anything to him.

Spartan, you've made 470 more posts than me, and you're calling me a fanboy?
Do you understand the irony of your comment, or do you need that explained to you as well?

Sequence, do you fail to understand that postcounts and fanboyism don't correlate with each other?

 

[jamespow]

I still can't see the logic behind going to a forum where the majority of the members have the same basic opinion about something and tell them all that they are wrong, not to mention flinging degrading titles ("fanboy" being the most popular one) at them as they ask why they are wrong or defend their opinion.

Seriously, what are you getting out of it?

 

[not28]

The game was excellent but they cut out too many things that I expected. Everybody needs to stop crying: here, try some of this.

 

[Mr-Fusion]

Yeah well Spartan is just hanging around like a bad smell for some reason. We're all hoping he'll just leave and go annoy some people on another forum, but it's a no-go yet. He's still flinging the fanboy shit around every day like an annoying troll.

 

[Latin_Jones]

Don't get me wrong I enjoyed the game for what it was - but not for what it should have been.
Bullz

It sounds like you had too many expectations going into it. And that you assumed it would be something that it wasn't.

 

[Sequence]

Spartan - apparently I do. Would you care to define fanboyism for me please

 

[porus]

so basically you are disappointed because HL2 is a game and you were so hyped up you were expecting something with the realism of reality?

 

[Eternity]

Threads like this are absolutely ridiculous. Item: if you seriously think that Half-life 2 is a mediocre game, you're an idiot. Go drool over somebody else's shoes, please. There are only two reasons that somebody would try to claim this game isn't one of the best ever made: you have absolutely no experience with computer/video games, or you want attention.

Will you prepubescent, dimwitted wannabe trolls get off my forum? You don't really think this game missed the bar: you wanted this thread to go above three pages, and don't try to tell me different, because I can walk all over you in every way possible. Let's review some objective standards.

1) Graphics -- objectively, some of the best ever
2) Physics -- objectively, best ever
3) Facial animation -- objectively, best ever in video game
4) Characters -- objectively, some of the best ever, from the fluid animation to their gestures to the way they speak
5) Level design -- objectively, some of the best ever
6) Enemies -- objectively, some of the best pathfinding ever found in a game

So before you try to somehow tell me that HL2 didn't even find the bar, have second thoughts, freak. I'm betting money you didn't even play the entire game.

 

[Chiefi]

That's not what I said. I said:

Instead, Gordon is sleepwalking through everything without giving a shit about what's going on, *****NOT THAT ANYONE HAS THE TIME OR INTEREST TO EXPLAIN ANYTHING TO HIM.*****

You were expecting characters to tell you the whole deal about the story. If that's not what you were expecting, than you wouldn't be here saying the story is weak.

 

[not28]

You were expecting characters to tell you the whole deal about the story. If that's not what you were expecting, than you wouldn't be here saying the story is weak.

So, in a nutshell: "If you didn't like it then you just didn't get it."

 

[PvtRyan]

Yeah well Spartan is just hanging around like a bad smell for some reason. We're all hoping he'll just leave and go annoy some people on another forum, but it's a no-go yet. He's still flinging the fanboy shit around every day like an annoying troll.

User CP > Buddy / Ignore Lists > Spartan

One less thing to piss me off.

So, in a nutshell: "If you didn't like it then you just didn't get it."

Nope, you can get it and not like it, but not liking it is in a completely different league than a bad story/ "omg teh sux lolz!".

 

[Polarhound]

Do people have the right to an opinion??? I think so at least. I WAITED, and WAITED, and WAITED for hl2... and in the end, the leak was more fun than the full game because they cut so much stuff out!

Nice. Care to admit pirating software any more clearly?

 

[Odysseus]

There are only two reasons that somebody would try to claim this game isn't one of the best ever made: you have absolutely no experience with computer/video games, or you want attention.

No, there is another reason why somebody would try to claim this game isn't one of the best ever made, simply because it isn't.

Let's review some objective standards.

1) Graphics -- objectively, some of the best ever
2) Physics -- objectively, best ever
3) Facial animation -- objectively, best ever in video game
4) Characters -- objectively, some of the best ever, from the fluid animation to their gestures to the way they speak
5) Level design -- objectively, some of the best ever
6) Enemies -- objectively, some of the best pathfinding ever found in a game

You fall into the category of people who equate good graphics/physics/facial animation/etc... with a good game. How about the storyline? That's the most important element here and yet you don't make any mention to it whatsoever.

 

[SFLUFAN]

No, there is another reason why somebody would try to claim this game isn't one of the best ever made, simply because it isn't.



You fall into the category of people who equate good graphics/physics/facial animation/etc... with a good game. How about the storyline? That's the most important element here and yet you don't make any mention to it whatsoever.

7) Storyline -- intelligent, thought provoking, and original - all elements that the orignal Half-Life, as brilliant as it was, somewhat falls short in when compared to its sequel.

 

[Eternity]

You fall into the category of people who equate good graphics/physics/facial animation/etc... with a good game. How about the storyline? That's the most important element here and yet you don't make any mention to it whatsoever.

Thanks for the half-hearted lame attempt at a comeback. If you think HL2's atmosphere and storyline was seriously outplayed by many others, I would love if you listed the games. I'm sure those ending levels and the endless attention to detail is woefully outperformed in other better games, like FarCry!

And if you didn't understand the plot holes, you're just dumb. Check the main page to help you out, somebody wrote a guide for you.

 

[skarbus]

You fall into the category of people who equate good graphics/physics/facial animation/etc... with a good game. How about the storyline? That's the most important element here and yet you don't make any mention to it whatsoever.

You can't be serious. All of the things he listed are far more crucial to actual gameplay than a story.

 

[Odysseus]

Thanks for the half-hearted lame attempt at a comeback. If you think HL2's atmosphere and storyline was seriously outplayed by many others, I would love if you listed the games.

Here is my list: Half Life

And if you didn't understand the plot holes, you're just dumb. Check the main page to help you out, somebody wrote a guide for you.

The plot was clear, but not very good. I find it interesting that you mention the guide, which in fact, I read. It rests on many assumptions, and doesn't tell anything concrete. Just like Half Life 2.

 

[Spartan]

You were expecting characters to tell you the whole deal about the story. If that's not what you were expecting, than you wouldn't be here saying the story is weak.

Instead of repeating, I'll re-explain:

Gordon is suddenly on a train in City 17, ten years in a future controlled by his old administrator Breen, who represents an alien power called the Combine. Does Gordon wonder what's going on? Is he baffled? Confused? Does he ask questions?

Does he F-CK!

He just blindly charges forward like a stoned homicidal maniac, without knowing what's going on and why. Then again, even if he did ask, it would probably go something like this:

Gordon: What the hell is going on, Barney? Where am I?
* roof crashes, Combine soldiers descend from above *
Barney: OMG SHIT YOU GOTTA GET TO ELI HE IS SOMEWHERE NO TIME TO TELL WHERE GO GO GO!!!!!
Barney: But before you go, let's spend some time on a pointless subplot about a funny headcrab instead of informing you of the basics... .... done. NOW GO!

Or...

Gordon: Why me? Why am I so important? I'm just another guy.
Resistance guy: You are The One. Take this RPG and kill someone.

(note: if we compare this with the Matrix, Neo has doubt about himself is wondering why people are making a big deal about him - Gordon isn't doubting, wondering or thinking about anything at all. I know someone will counter this with "well, YOU are Gordon," but that's pointless because I, the player, can't ask the NPCs any questions, like Gordon could.)

Or...

Gordon: Alyx, I've murdered thousands of people, don't sweat it. I'll just kill everyone again and Eli can continue his research.
Alyx: No! It is imperative that you go to Ravenholm for no reason other than to dick around with physics, expose yourself to unimaginable danger and end up on the coast just in time to rescue my father who will no doubt be kidnapped soon because you weren't here!

 

[Edcrab]

Saying story is the most important feature of any game is yet another piece to add to the opinion jigsaw... let's see, the end result appears to be a frowning hamster with the caption "IT'S ALL SUBJECTIVE, LEAVE ME ALONE." The hamster is chewing on celery, but I don't think that's of any sort of mystical relevance.

They don't like the game/didn't think as much of it as you- leave 'em be.

That said, they're doing the equivalent of walking into a Star Wars convention and talking loudly about how much Kirk's exploits pwned Skywalkers... you're not going to find many likeminded people here, fellas. If you really consider the wide variety of opinions here to herald from psychotic fanboys, what are you trying to do persuading them otherwise? Surely that's impossible, by your own standards?

 

[SFLUFAN]

Instead of repeating, I'll re-explain:

Gordon is suddenly on a train in City 17, ten years in a future controlled by his old administrator Breen, who represents an alien power called the Combine. Does Gordon wonder what's going on? Is he baffled? Confused? Does he ask questions?

Does he F-CK!

He just blindly charges forward like a stoned homicidal maniac, without knowing what's going on and why. Then again, even if he did ask, it would probably go something like this:

Gordon: What the hell is going on, Barney? Where am I?
* roof crashes, Combine soldiers descend from above *
Barney: OMG SHIT YOU GOTTA GET TO ELI HE IS SOMEWHERE NO TIME TO TELL WHERE GO GO GO!!!!!
Barney: But before you go, let's spend some time on a pointless subplot about a funny headcrab instead of informing you of the basics... .... done. NOW GO!

Or...

Gordon: Why me? Why am I so important? I'm just another guy.
Resistance guy: You are The One. Take this RPG and kill someone.

(note: if we compare this with the Matrix, Neo has doubt about himself is wondering why people are making a big deal about him - Gordon isn't doubting, wondering or thinking about anything at all. I know someone will counter this with "well, YOU are Gordon," but that's pointless because I, the player, can't ask the NPCs any questions, like Gordon could.)

Or...

Gordon: Alyx, I've murdered thousands of people, don't sweat it. I'll just kill everyone again and Eli can continue his research.
Alyx: No! It is imperative that you go to Ravenholm for no reason other than to dick around with physics, expose yourself to unimaginable danger and end up on the coast just in time to rescue my father who will no doubt be kidnapped soon because you weren't here!

Now you're just babbling nonsense - time to add you to the Ignore list as well.

 

[ViviUO]

Who said ravenholm had to have anything to do with the story? It was the only way for Gorden to get out of BM east.

 

[Spartan]

Now you're just babbling nonsense - time to add you to the Ignore list as well.

If you didn't understand it, you are just stupid. I bet that you are used to being spoonfed anything.

(does that sound familiar?)

 

[not28]

User CP > Buddy / Ignore Lists > Spartan

One less thing to piss me off.



Nope, you can get it and not like it, but not liking it is in a completely different league than a bad story/ "omg teh sux lolz!".

Put any Final Fantasy storyline next to Half-Life 2's storyline, and you'll see what I mean. The plot wasn't bad; it was just underdeveloped, and scattered throughout segments of the game.

I'm not saying I wanted everything "spoonfed" to me, either, so you elitist assholes can fuck off.

 

[SFLUFAN]

If you didn't understand it, you are just stupid. I bet that you are used to being spoonfed anything.

(does that sound familiar?)

Yeah - it does but it sounds so much better coming from a condescending arrogant jerk like you.

 

[Edcrab]

Does Gordon wonder what's going on? Is he baffled? Confused? Does he ask questions?

Heheh, I actually rather liked that post... it's pretty clever, accurately portraying what a lot of people seem to think of the game.

It's a game, not a film, but you might as well question Ravenholm's existence just as every critic ever questions the presence of generic action sequence four in Action Movie 7. It's a term I hate, but it's just "eye candy", or, when in a game, an "adrenaline bucket". Meh, I'll have to invent a less crap term. Half-Life 2 is strung up between fluid portions like the apparently arbitary Lemarr sequence, moved along between protracted action scenes. A bit like the first Half-Life, really, although it lacked the same level of character interaction, or minute but inevitably advancing character development. Oh wait, that's because it wasn't a sequel on a more advanced engine... what do people want, a HL remake on Source? They clearly tried and failed to meet everyone's expectations.

Anyway, yes, Gordon is baffled and confused because he's been thrust into a dystopian hellhole. He doesn't talk, for reasons which make up five threads in and of themselves, so he doesn't say as much. Yes, I will use the "you are Gordon" excuse, more's the pity- you end us a near-messianic individual aiding and abetting a cause you really don't understand, but which appears to be the only major side that isn't interested in your violent demise. If it was non-linear with DX-style character interaction, it'd be a different game. You might as well ask why Doom 3 is so dark, or why I can't demand that the damn scientist in the attic compartment doesn't come along with me or at least explain where the nearest portal is.

Heh, guess D3's storyline was a wee bit more basic... a lot like the first Half-Life's, really, but with less tagged-on mystique.

 

[skarbus]

Gordon is suddenly on a train in City 17, ten years in a future controlled by his old administrator Breen, who represents an alien power called the Combine. Does Gordon wonder what's going on? Is he baffled? Confused? Does he ask questions?

What more does he need to know? All he could possibly find out is what his old friends know. And I highly doubt even they are completely clued in to what is really going on behind the scenes.

And your simplification of certain aspects of the game are childish. If you're going to ask why he went to Ravenholm when the story legitamizes the detour, then why not question why the G-man can't directly teleport him to the Citadel from the beginning? Why have Gordon go from Point A to Point B in a straight line when you can just have him at a single point from the beginning!

 

[AudioStar]

Yeah the game was kind of fun...

 

[Chiefi]

Instead of repeating, I'll re-explain:

Blablablablablabla....

I'm not sure about your explanation. Also I'm not too sure about the point you were trying to make. You didn't like the events in Hl2?

We were talking about the story, not the events. The story and the events in Hl2 are two different things.

 

[PvtRyan]

Put any Final Fantasy storyline next to Half-Life 2's storyline, and you'll see what I mean. The plot wasn't bad; it was just underdeveloped, and scattered throughout segments of the game.

I'm not saying I wanted everything "spoonfed" to me, either, so you elitist assholes can fuck off.

But since when has FF been a benchmark for stories of all games? I'm pretty sure some adventure games on the PC have some even better, deeper and more developed stories. But would that work in an FPS? Because that's what it is, and always will be. You can't tell an FF story while maintaining the gameplay of HL.

 

[Odysseus]

Who said ravenholm had to have anything to do with the story? It was the only way for Gorden to get out of BM east.

False, dog could have opened the door.

 

[Spartan]

I'm not sure about your explanation. Also I'm not too sure about the point you were trying to make. You didn't like the events in Hl2?

We were talking about the story, not the events. The story and the events in Hl2 are two different things.

Ok, I guess I'm giving up. No matter how desperately I'm trying to convey that events and things are not adequately explained in the game, it just doesn't get through. Important and relevant information is kept from the player for illogical or non-existent reasons.

 

[Death.Trap]

Ok, so your saying hl2 will be remembered as one of the greatest games ever and people will play the sp and cs:s until hl3 comes out? I HIGHLY doubt it.

Yup. Have you not noticed that the vast majority of people think hl2 is awesome? You're in the minority, get used to it.

 

[Edcrab]

Yes, but we're meant to have presumed that BME was being overrun with Combine troops- a fight even Gordon couldn't win. I still think it might've been interesting to battle your way out of a rebel complex as it falls to the enemy, mind. Something for the SP modders to work on...

 

[not28]

But since when has FF been a benchmark for stories of all games? I'm pretty sure some adventure games on the PC have some even better, deeper and more developed stories. But would that work in an FPS? Because that's what it is, and always will be. You can't tell an FF story while maintaining the gameplay of HL.

You're correct in that you can't maintain the story depth of Final Fantasy whilst providing the awesome gameplay of Half-Life 2. But Half-Life 2 tried hard to juggle the ideas of revolution, conformity, betrayal, deception, and others while constricting it to a few sparse scenes of confrontation with Alyx, Eli, Mossman, and Breen. The beauty of Half-Life 1's plot was its simplicity throughout the entire game, until the very end in which you were bombarded with entirely new concepts. Half-Life 2 tried to build a complex plot but failed to follow through at the end. It's an excellent game, but it's missing something.

 

[Edcrab]

Fair enough. I don't buy the extremist "OMG NO STORY AT ALL/SHIT STORY" hardline concept though.

Half-Life 2 is not as revolutionary to the gaming world of today as the first Half-Life was back in 1998. It's just a damn good game. I can fully understand why people prefer the minamilist, "purer" gameplay of the original game over its sequel... it's just not an opinion that I myself subscribe to.

 

[skarbus]

False, dog could have opened the door.

And? The Combine were invading the base, Eli had already been captured. Maybe Alyx thought Grodon's chances would've been better going through Ravenholm. Black Mesa East looked pretty small and I doubt Gordon could've taken them all on considering how many Combine had descended upon the base. Perhaps Valve also didn't want the player repeating the same experience in Half Life 1 of escaping from a scientific facility.

Important and relevant information is kept from the player for illogical or non-existent reasons.

What information exactly?

 

[Odysseus]

Ok, I guess I'm giving up. No matter how desperately I'm trying to convey that events and things are not adequately explained in the game, it just doesn't get through. Important and relevant information is kept from the player for illogical or non-existent reasons.

same here

 

[dynamicx]

Ravenholm was in the game because:

1. Apparently the only way out of BME
2. Fitted very well with the story line, showing why people flocked to the citys and what the combine headcrab shelling could do to rebel resistence
3. Was a nice change of pace and gave the player time to have fun with the physics, obviously not everyone will like it as you can't please everyone. For some it will have been their favourite part, others will have gotten out as quick as they could
4. You get to fight with badass gregori