HL2 to linux petition

[MrD]

Well i'm not going to slag Linux for its technical ability. But oh my god it has a crap UI. The reason 90% of home users use Windows is because they simply don't have the knowledge to use something like Linux. I'd like to see a four year old start up an educational game in Linux. And thats assuming you can get Linux onto the PC in the first place.

After all everyone is a beginner the first time they use something. I don't remember ever having to search on the internet just to figure out how to edit a text file in Windows. And I ended up having to do the search on Windows because I couldn't work out how to open the web browser.

A truly "superior" OS would cater for both beginners and experts alike.

*edit: fixed some crap confusing wording

 

[Nathaniel]

I'd like an OS with the stability and safety of linux and the ease and lightweight feel of windows XP (or 2k) or perhaps even a totally new UI, redesigned from the ground to allow for both expert tweaks and usability.

I've tried linux once, but removed it due to it being way to complex. I had no one to teach me how to use it, so it basically became useless. Still, I'm sick and tired of windows crashing, viruses and way too expensive software due to a Microsoft monopoly.

We need something new and improved

 

[Kaptain Killer]

Originally posted by DeBaan
You are a moron.

How do you think the world ran before win2k? (nt3.51 and nt4 don't count, for obvious ... blah blah blah blah blah mindless zealotry blah blah blah.

I can't believe anyone wants HL2 ported to Linux. At least Valve is smart enough not to listen to you idiots. I bet all you Linux nerds would pirate it, rather than leaving your parents' basement and actually (*gasp*) paying a developer for a good product.

OpenGL? What a joke. Direct3D is far superior. It rolls new features into the codebase with much greater speed, allowing for the tremendous advances in graphics you see today. There's a reason why all new games are using it. Rumour is that nVidia will be removing OpenGL support entirely in one of their next major driver revisions, so that they can squeeze more speed out of OpenGL. Face it: OpenGL is almost dead.

C# a copy of Java? Ha. sorry, buddy, but your 5 line bash scripts do not allow you to make such qualified statements. I work as a programmer in a Fortune 500 corporation, and I can tell you that C# is the most advanced programming language to date.

Internet Explorer? It's an amazing technological achievement, much more so than the copy-cat Netscape or Mozilla. Look at the advanced technologies Microsoft is delivering to your desktop through the browser, such as WindowsUpdate. Actually being able to update the OS via a browser is astounding ... nothing so innovative has ever come out of your open-source browsers.

Apache over IIS? Apache may be fine for your "my f1rst h0mepage", but it crumbles when faced with a serious business task. I wonder why the grand majority of corporations choose to run on a Windows platform? Maybe it's because Win2K3 is 86% faster than Linux. Or maybe because the total cost of ownership with the Windows platform is substantially lower than with Linux.

Microsoft systems are the most commonly exploited because they are, by far, the most widely deployed. With 95% of the world's desktops running Windows, hackers have no incentive to attack any other platform, including your beloved Linux. If Linux were to achieve any significant market share, it would be even more messy than with Windows. You know who contributes to open-source? Incompetent boobs who are not skilled enough to be paid money to develop. Microsoft has thousands of the brightest minds in the industry working for it. No way Linux can compete with that.

Not sure if you've bothered to step off your pedestal and actually try any version of Windows since 3.1, but the latest NT-based systems are even more stable and reliable than Linux. One of my company's web servers on Win2K/IIS has an uptime of over 300 days.

ICS, firewall, software RAID, and what not? Ooh, maybe Linux had them first. So what? There are actually stable, mature implementations on Windows. Try again, buddy.

Why would you want 50 different e-mail servers when one is enough? IIS is the best of breed in all it does. What's more, each component is integrated extremely well with all the others. Try doing that with Linux and one of your 50 databases developed by a teenage social outcast.

The Microsoft GUI's have typically set the standard in the industry. All that Linux offers is just a poor imitation, chasing after the countless resources MS sinks into R&D. Watch the 100 different Longhorn interface clones on Linux that pour out in the next few years.

You complain about the Windows registry? Haha, I'm sure a superior solution is thousands of text config files scattered across the filesystem, each with a different syntax. Been there, done that ... they were called .ini files, way back in Win3.1. Eight years ago, Windows graduated to the Registry, which has proven to be so powerful and sleek, it is in use even to this day with Microsoft's most advanced operating systems.

Defrag tools? Surely you jest. Win2K and XP have both included a defrag app developed by Microsoft and integrated into the OS. A number of other 3rd-party tools are available if this is not sufficient. Contrast this with Linux, where I haven't seen a single defragmenter in all our trials, no matter which filesystem is in use.

Microsoft has a mature development environment in Visual Studio. It allows for unheralded power in development. Not all of us have time to learn 50 million switches to GCC ... we'd rather spend our time writing code. Why do you think every major game is developed in Visual Studio and not one of your open-source tools?

Better frame rates on Linux? Oh, that's rich. In what, all three of the games you can play on it? Thanks but no thanks, I will stick to an OS with a mature 3D API and frequent drivers updates. What's more, you specifically call WINE an emulator. If you were compotent in using your Linux, you'd know that WINE stands for "Wine Is Not an Emulator". Sheesh.

Moron? Aha, quite the one to talk, my friend. Maybe one day, you will finally understand that you get what you pay for. Then again, maybe Linux is better after all; before long, you will have to pay SCO $699 just to use it. I've had fun tearing your imbecilic post apart. Mindless zealots like you make me laugh. Why don't you run off to Slashdot and whine about "M$" with all your other communist friends?

 

[Zynaps]

lol Kaptain Killer

Never seen this much bullshit in one post ever.

I bet not only does Microsoft pay your salary but you have stocks in SCO too

 

[RadiuS]

@ kk: wow, you must have a great life!

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

I do not like microsoft.

Hardly anyone does. They are a monopoly.

But I face facts. Why would valve bother making it for so few people. It would take up too much resources and time for them to bother. And not everyone with linux would play HL2. It isnt good business. Just face it.

 

[koopa]

Originally posted by Kaptain Killer
I can't believe anyone wants HL2 ported to Linux. At least Valve is smart enough not to listen to you idiots. I bet all you Linux nerds would pirate it, rather than leaving your parents' basement and actually (*gasp*) paying a developer for a good product.

<snipped crazy, rabid ranting>

There's actually some pretty good points wrapped in among the trolling. Good work Kaptain

 

[Nathaniel]

This is pointless.. for every Linux sir-know-a-lot there is of course a Windows sir-know-a-lot.

The point is, Linux has been proven to be stable. Windows has a loooong reputation of being "somewhat less" stable. People go with what they know. Unless Microsoft starts putting out more secure software that actually does what it's supposed to for the money I have to spend, I'll be gradually learning and moving over to Linux. I simply lost my confidence in Microsoft, and I don't care who invented what. Microsoft does not have a spotless consiounce, and they most certainly never will.

 

[oMarKs]

haha nice one kk, you clearly know little. Most web servers run linux now.

 

[Vino]

Originally posted by Kaptain Killer
I can't believe anyone wants HL2 ported to Linux. At least Valve is smart enough not to listen to you idiots. I bet all you Linux nerds would pirate it, rather than leaving your parents' basement and actually (*gasp*) paying a developer for a good product.

Valve being smart or not smart enough to listen to us is not an issue. The issue is that Gabe Newell himself worked for Microsoft for 13 years. He was paid by M$ to develop for M$ for a good chunk of his life. Chances are that Gabe Newell is a M$ supporter. After all, why else would he take a game which was fully compilable in Linux and not bother releasing a Linux port?

Linux nerds have no problem with paying for software. They have problems with paying for faulty software, as proprietary software so often is. After all, I've already pre-ordered my copy of HL2, and I paid for HL in cash. I've bought my copy of Milkshape, and countless shareware games, like the great Exile 3 from Spiderweb software, a classic in tile-based RPGs. But I will not pay money for software just to be screwed into buying bugs and updates. I had to yell at the people at Quicken yesterday because they tried to charge my mom twice for some bullshit updates when she had to reinstall her computer. It's just not fair.

OpenGL? What a joke. Direct3D is far superior. ... Rumour is that nVidia will be removing OpenGL support entirely in one of their next major driver revisions, so that they can squeeze more speed out of OpenGL. Face it: OpenGL is almost dead.

Would you like to know why OpenGL is dead? OpenGL is controlled for the most part by nVidia, which was bought out by M$. So now, Microsoft controls the future of OpenGL. They nerfed it, and improved DirectX instead, causing it to be vastly undeveloped, and as a result, nobody uses it anymore. This is Microsoft executing their monopolistic practices like they do so well. Hopefully, some other organization will revive OpenGL, or produce another 3D API like it, so we can have our fun again. It'd be great, everybody knows that HL looks better in OGL then D3D.

C# a copy of Java? Ha. sorry, buddy, but your 5 line bash scripts do not allow you to make such qualified statements. I work as a programmer in a Fortune 500 corporation, and I can tell you that C# is the most advanced programming language to date.

This URL you seemed to have linked is one programmer's lazy preference to a sloppier programming language. Java is powerful, scaleable, secure, and easy to develop with. C# makes for messy code, and is simply Java, skewed around .NET

Internet Explorer? It's an amazing technological achievement, much more so than the copy-cat Netscape or Mozilla. Look at the advanced technologies Microsoft is delivering to your desktop through the browser, such as WindowsUpdate. Actually being able to update the OS via a browser is astounding ... nothing so innovative has ever come out of your open-source browsers.

The code for MSIE isn't even Microsoft's so they can't be accredited to this "amazing technological acheivement". MSIE is definitely not a law-abiding denizen of the internet world. It breaks many rules, including security and Content-Type rules specifically outlined in the HTTP specification. For example, if a file looks like an HTML, then MSIE will display it like an HTML, even if the server's Content-Type designates it as a regular txt file. In addition, HTTP specifically denies browsers from making their own interpretations to a file's Content-Type if the server provides one. This is why the geocities rename-to-txt trick works, MSIE sees that its actually an image and displays it as so. Don't interpret this as "smart" or "amazing technology", it's actually an insecure and generally wrong way to go about writing software.

Apache over IIS? Apache may be fine for your "my f1rst h0mepage", but it crumbles when faced with a serious business task. I wonder why the grand majority of corporations choose to run on a Windows platform? Maybe it's because www.veritest.com/clients/reports/microsoft/ms_netbench.pdf+&hl=en&ie=UTF-8[/url]Win2K3 is 86% faster than Linux[/url]. Or maybe because the total cost of ownership with the Windows platform is substantially lower than with Linux.

Don't even try to nerf us with test that read Test report prepared under contract from Microsoft. Perhaps you should pay more attention to the actions of a convicted criminal monopolist. Apache is the webserver of choice for over half of the internet servers in existence, because it is fast, powerful, and scaleable. And when you get down to the cost, Windows costs up to $200 per liscense, and Linux is totally free as in speech. That $200 doesn't include the many other proprietary programs you'll probably have to load to do what you want, the open-source equivalents of which are also free-as-in-speech as you can be. That article says "in some situations", and they really mean "in not many situations at all".

Microsoft systems are the most commonly exploited because they are, by far, the most widely deployed. With 95% of the world's desktops running Windows, hackers have no incentive to attack any other platform, including your beloved Linux. ... You know who contributes to open-source? Incompetent boobs who are not skilled enough to be paid money to develop. Microsoft has thousands of the brightest minds in the industry working for it. No way Linux can compete with that.

It is true that Windows is hacked more because it has a largest market share. This is the first sense I've heard coming from you. However, Linux is also hacked less because of the fact that the entire system is built with security in mind. In addition, since every Linux distrobution runs altered source code, an attack against Linux would only affect a small percentage of the population. Lastly, I would watch who I call an incompetent boob. I don't see any innovative software coming out of Microsoft for all those billions they spend...it all seems to be bought from other companies and nerfed. (Even DirectX was not Microsoft's doing...it was bought from another company. I forget which.)

Not sure if you've bothered to step off your pedestal and actually try any version of Windows since 3.1, but the latest NT-based systems are even more stable and reliable than Linux. One of my company's web servers on Win2K/IIS has an uptime of over 300 days.

Perhaps Windows has sorted out many of their flaws, but at no time will they ever come up to par with Linux. A 300-day uptime doesn't outweigh by far the additional security risks and overhead from a native Windows system.

ICS, firewall, software RAID, and what not? Ooh, maybe Linux had them first. So what? There are actually stable, mature implementations on Windows. ...

I'm not going to comment on this one. It's just too funky for me to touch. I don't know how you equate bloated and expensive with stable and mature.

The Microsoft GUI's have typically set the standard in the industry. ...

If you mean the X windows system, I'm not aware of any WMs trying to imitate the Windows style. I'm sure they exist, but that doesn't even matter. You're equating all Linux WMs to be copycatting Windows. This simply is not true. Linux WMs employ a host of options never seen in Windows, which ease use tenfold. Just to name some little stuff, copy/pasting with the mouse and sloppy window focus.

You complain about the Windows registry? Haha, I'm sure a superior solution is thousands of text config files scattered across the filesystem, each with a different syntax. ...

Have you ever seen the Windows registry? It's a total mess, especially in the later versions, where it had to be circumcised to deal with integrating multiple users. It makes it akward to install and remove software, as everything must be placed into and removed from the registry. Linux programs can be removed simply by removing the binaries and associated files, which are typically listed in the manual files. Windows herds you through an "Uninstall Shield", where it gives you unambiguous messages like "Windows is performing the requested operations." WTF? I didn't know I requested any operations?

... I haven't seen a single defragmenter in all our trials, no matter which filesystem is in use.

That's because defragging isn't necessary in Linux.

Microsoft has a mature development environment in Visual Studio. It allows for unheralded power in development. Not all of us have time to learn 50 million switches to GCC ... we'd rather spend our time writing code. Why do you think every major game is developed in Visual Studio and not one of your open-source tools?

Don't try to compare the Linux development system with the Windows one, Linux wins hands-down. It's a system built to compile source code, ffs, it's distributed with a free, and very powerful compiler. It has a horde of programs, like grep, or awk, or sed, or prof, or perl, or shell scripts, or gnumake, or whatever, to assist in building programs. If youre too lazy to learn a couple of gcc's powerful switches, then there are a number of free-as-in-speech IDEs for you to use to satisfy your hunger for a GUI. (Myself, I program with vi in a terminal.)

TBC NEXT POST...

 

[Vino]

Better frame rates on Linux? Oh, that's rich. In what, all three of the games you can play on it? ... What's more, you specifically call WINE an emulator. If you were compotent in using your Linux, you'd know that WINE stands for "Wine Is Not an Emulator". Sheesh.

It's easier to call Wine an emulator, as it's much more difficult to call it a low-level wrapper for the Windows API. We know that it doesn't emulate. Moving on to more relevant topics, if you would read the entire thread, you would see the list of games for Linux include all of the Quakes, all of the Dooms, and all of the UT2K*s. HL is alone in not having a Linux version.

Moron? Aha, quite the one to talk, my friend. Maybe one day, you will finally understand that you get what you pay for. Then again, maybe Linux is better after all; before long, you will have to pay SCO $699 just to use it. ... [/B]

SCO will definitely not and never win any kind of lawsuit against IBM, even if they are backed by Microsoft. SCO was puffing hot air and trying to up their stock (for the purpose of insider trading) and they will now suffer the penalty, as IBM drags their asses through patent court, and IBM has never lost a patent case. They claim to have IP in Linux, but they refuse to divulge what the code is. If this is true, they it's wrong for two reasons: A) Any code in Linux is released under GPL and B) once Redhat and SuSe find out what code this is, they will remove it anyways. So SCO is screwed one way or the other.

And don't even try to call us communist, when we display on every GPL site the free-as-in-speech, and wave our flags of freedom, as Microsoft attempts to force you to pay more money to remain under their rule.

The bottom line is, Microsoft has it's hand deep in Gabe Newell's pocket, and it doesn't look like we're going to get an HL2 for Linux any time soon. The fact that it's DX-only means the best we can do is hope to use Wine to run it. Valve can't use a utitlity like Winelib to port it, and there's no way theyre gunna rewrite DX for Linux just for a port. So, we live in Windows land a bit longer.

 

[Mountain Man]

Originally posted by The Mullinator
Xbox has only got a 900Mhz proccessor and a GeForce 3 yet it is capable of running Doom III on what I presume is going to be the maximum graphics level on the PC.

I wouldn't count on it.

And for everybody saying Linux doesn't have good games support, check out the WineX project. It's like Wine on steroids and supports many popular games. No doubt they'll implement Half-Life 2 support as soon as possible.

I wish developers would partner with Transgaming and build WineX support into their products from the get go. It would allow them to expand their market with very little developement cost.

At any rate, I'm keeping a close eye on WineX, and once they get to the point where they support a majority of the games I like to play, Linux will become my primary OS.

 

[Mountain Man]

Originally posted by MrD
Well i'm not going to slag Linux for its technical ability. But oh my god it has a crap UI.

Really? Click me.

 

[GRIMEY]

Originally posted by Nathaniel
I'd like an OS with the stability and safety of linux and the ease and lightweight feel of windows XP (or 2k) or perhaps even a totally new UI, redesigned from the ground to allow for both expert tweaks and usability.

I've tried linux once, but removed it due to it being way to complex. I had no one to teach me how to use it, so it basically became useless. Still, I'm sick and tired of windows crashing, viruses and way too expensive software due to a Microsoft monopoly.

We need something new and improved

Sounds like OS X would suit you perfectly, though u'll need to purchase a mac first :dozey:

 

[GRIMEY]

Originally posted by Kaptain Killer
I can't believe anyone wants HL2 ported to Linux. At least Valve is smart enough not to listen to you idiots. I bet all you Linux nerds would pirate it, rather than leaving your parents' basement and actually (*gasp*) paying a developer for a good product.

OpenGL? What a joke. Direct3D is far superior. It rolls new features into the codebase with much greater speed, allowing for the tremendous advances in graphics you see today. There's a reason why all new games are using it. Rumour is that nVidia will be removing OpenGL support entirely in one of their next major driver revisions, so that they can squeeze more speed out of OpenGL. Face it: OpenGL is almost dead.

C# a copy of Java? Ha. sorry, buddy, but your 5 line bash scripts do not allow you to make such qualified statements. I work as a programmer in a Fortune 500 corporation, and I can tell you that C# is the most advanced programming language to date.
Internet Explorer? It's an amazing technological achievement, much more so than the copy-cat Netscape or Mozilla. Look at the advanced technologies Microsoft is delivering to your desktop through the browser, such as WindowsUpdate. Actually being able to update the OS via a browser is astounding ... nothing so innovative has ever come out of your open-source browsers.

Apache over IIS? Apache may be fine for your "my f1rst h0mepage", but it crumbles when faced with a serious business task. I wonder why the grand majority of corporations choose to run on a Windows platform? Maybe it's because www.veritest.com/clients/reports/microsoft/ms_netbench.pdf+&hl=en&ie=UTF-8[/url]Win2K3 is 86% faster than Linux[/url]. Or maybe because the total cost of ownership with the Windows platform is substantially lower than with Linux.

Microsoft systems are the most commonly exploited because they are, by far, the most widely deployed. With 95% of the world's desktops running Windows, hackers have no incentive to attack any other platform, including your beloved Linux. If Linux were to achieve any significant market share, it would be even more messy than with Windows. You know who contributes to open-source? Incompetent boobs who are not skilled enough to be paid money to develop. Microsoft has thousands of the brightest minds in the industry working for it. No way Linux can compete with that.

Not sure if you've bothered to step off your pedestal and actually try any version of Windows since 3.1, but the latest NT-based systems are even more stable and reliable than Linux. One of my company's web servers on Win2K/IIS has an uptime of over 300 days.

ICS, firewall, software RAID, and what not? Ooh, maybe Linux had them first. So what? There are actually stable, mature implementations on Windows. Try again, buddy.

Why would you want 50 different e-mail servers when one is enough? IIS is the best of breed in all it does. What's more, each component is integrated extremely well with all the others. Try doing that with Linux and one of your 50 databases developed by a teenage social outcast.

The Microsoft GUI's have typically set the standard in the industry. All that Linux offers is just a poor imitation, chasing after the countless resources MS sinks into R&D. Watch the 100 different Longhorn interface clones on Linux that pour out in the next few years.

You complain about the Windows registry? Haha, I'm sure a superior solution is thousands of text config files scattered across the filesystem, each with a different syntax. Been there, done that ... they were called .ini files, way back in Win3.1. Eight years ago, Windows graduated to the Registry, which has proven to be so powerful and sleek, it is in use even to this day with Microsoft's most advanced operating systems.

Defrag tools? Surely you jest. Win2K and XP have both included a defrag app developed by Microsoft and integrated into the OS. A number of other 3rd-party tools are available if this is not sufficient. Contrast this with Linux, where I haven't seen a single defragmenter in all our trials, no matter which filesystem is in use.

Microsoft has a mature development environment in Visual Studio. It allows for unheralded power in development. Not all of us have time to learn 50 million switches to GCC ... we'd rather spend our time writing code. Why do you think every major game is developed in Visual Studio and not one of your open-source tools?

Better frame rates on Linux? Oh, that's rich. In what, all three of the games you can play on it? Thanks but no thanks, I will stick to an OS with a mature 3D API and frequent drivers updates. What's more, you specifically call WINE an emulator. If you were compotent in using your Linux, you'd know that WINE stands for "Wine Is Not an Emulator". Sheesh.

Moron? Aha, quite the one to talk, my friend. Maybe one day, you will finally understand that you get what you pay for. Then again, maybe Linux is better after all; before long, you will have to pay SCO $699 just to use it. I've had fun tearing your imbecilic post apart. Mindless zealots like you make me laugh. Why don't you run off to Slashdot and whine about "M$" with all your other communist friends?

LMAO.
You win the 'Biggest Douche in the Universe' Award.

 

[Guest]

linux has just been something geeks like to brag about, while you're downloading compilers and writing lines, ill be pressing the "Play" button. flaming homo's.

 

[Dr. Freeman]

Originally posted by Mountain Man
Really? Click me.

Mountain Man this guy doesn't deserve a screen shot of nice lookin Linux UI's and somehow i get the feeling he will never really appreciate a good lookin UI


i plan to have a third box by this time next year.. and yup, its gonna have Linux!! :cheers: :imu:

 

[koopa]

Okay, I'm veering way off-topic here, but I thought it was an interesting post and I wanted to add to it.

Originally posted by Vino

Would you like to know why OpenGL is dead? OpenGL is controlled for the most part by nVidia, which was bought out by M$. So now, Microsoft controls the future of OpenGL. They nerfed it, and improved DirectX instead, causing it to be vastly undeveloped, and as a result, nobody uses it anymore. This is Microsoft executing their monopolistic practices like they do so well.

That's not the case. It's not a conspiracy - it's just that one team (DX) has a very big, very smart bunch of guys behind it adding all the latest features, and the other (OGL) is a rotting, slow-moving behemoth. Remember that DX is for games and nothing else ; that's not the same for OGL. On the plus side, OpenGL is improving, slowly.

Hopefully, some other organization will revive OpenGL, or produce another 3D API like it, so we can have our fun again. It'd be great, everybody knows that HL looks better in OGL then D3D.
The last thing we need is another API - and it'd die anyway (bye bye Glide). The HL thing is nothing to do with OpenGL and DX, more to do with the programming.

The code for MSIE isn't even Microsoft's so they can't be accredited to this "amazing technological acheivement". MSIE is definitely not a law-abiding denizen of the internet world. It breaks many rules, including security and Content-Type rules specifically outlined in the HTTP specification. For example, if a file looks like an HTML, then MSIE will display it like
As far as I know, MSIE started life from Mosaic or something similar, but it's developed in-house now? It certainly breaks the rules ; to be fair mostly it does so for the best of reasons (even if you and I would probably not agree with them).

you get down to the cost, Windows costs up to $200 per liscense, and Linux is totally free as in speech. That $200 doesn't include the many other proprietary programs you'll probably have to load to do what you want, the open-source equivalents of which are also free-as-in-speech as you can be. That article says "in some situations", and they really mean "in not many situations at all".
This wholesale shift away from Windows is only because of short-term thinking ; it's what happens when you let accountants run things

Linux certainly *looks* cheaper. Whether it's actually cheaper once you consider training costs, the salaries of competent MS workers compared to competent Linux ones ... I'm not so sure. Are the goals of Linux/free software in general actually compatible with business anyway? It should be interesting to see how this pans out.


It is true that Windows is hacked more because it has a largest market share. This is the first sense I've heard coming from you. However, Linux is also hacked less because of the fact that the entire system is built with security in mind. In addition, since every Linux distrobution runs altered source code, an attack against Linux would only affect a small percentage of the population. Lastly, I would watch who I call an incompetent boob. I don't see any innovative software coming out of Microsoft for all those billions they spend...it all seems to be bought from other companies and nerfed. (Even DirectX was not Microsoft's doing...it was bought from another company. I forget which.)
Linux has had its share of security problems (not to mention bugs ; the early 2.4 series was pretty much a disaster). Personally I disagree with you on the whole 'entire system is built with security in mind' - compared to many commercial unixes it's still pretty laughable, and compared to real operating systems it's not even on the scale. You have a fair point when you say 'an attack on Linux would only affect a small percentage' because of the different nature of each distribution, but I'd suggest if a vulnerability was found in Samba/sendmail/X Windows you'd hit most boxes.

I'm not knocking Open Source, but MS have some good people. I don't like what they do, but they (on the whole) don't employ idiots. Open Source isn't magically better - but it does have the advantage of not having 40 million lines of code to peer over. And that's not even considering Office, Exchange, etc, etc.

On the innovation front...well, innovation doesn't earn shareholders money, and frankly Linux is a standard implementation of a 30 year old idea anyway.

Perhaps Windows has sorted out many of their flaws, but at no time will they ever come up to par with Linux. A 300-day uptime doesn't outweigh by far the additional security risks and overhead from a native Windows system.
MS will get their act together, because it'll cost them too much not to.

Have you ever seen the Windows registry? It's a total mess, especially in the later versions, where it had to be circumcised to deal with integrating multiple users. It makes it akward to install and remove software, as everything must be placed into and removed from the registry. Linux programs can be removed simply by removing the binaries and associated files, which are typically listed in the manual files.
This is a pet gripe of mine. Take a good look in /etc, /usr, /usr/local, /opt, and whatever else your system has. It's *nasty*. Hundreds of different files, all in stupid places with stupid names. Completely different config formats for each one. Even the init scripts are vile. I think I prefer the registry, to be honest.

That's because defragging isn't necessary in Linux.
Not really true IMHO ; admittedly the Windows file systems are especially awful in this respect.

Don't try to compare the Linux development system with the Windows one, Linux wins hands-down. It's a system built to compile source code, ffs, it's distributed with a free, and very powerful compiler. It has a horde of programs, like grep, or awk, or sed, or prof, or perl, or shell scripts, or gnumake, or whatever, to assist in building programs. If youre too lazy to learn a couple of gcc's powerful switches, then there are a number of free-as-in-speech IDEs for you to use to satisfy your hunger for a GUI. (Myself, I program with vi in a terminal.)
In what way is it better? You have a handful of arcane commands, each of which requires a considerable learning period. The GCC compiler is pretty awful in terms of optimisations, ease of use, speed, etc. Granted, it's portable and free, but I've used GCC and Visual Studio pretty heavily, and I think I prefer VS. Admittedly I use XEmacs and batch files with it

 

[MrD]

Originally posted by Mountain Man
Really? Click me.

Okay, my bad. I didn't mean GUI, i just meant UI.

ie. anytime you want to do something remotely clever you have to drop back to using a console, which is all very well if you know the command... and that brings me back to the point about the begginers.

C# a copy of Java? Ha. sorry, buddy, but your 5 line bash scripts do not allow you to make such qualified statements. I work as a programmer in a Fortune 500 corporation, and I can tell you that C# is the most advanced programming language to date.

Yes, I work as a programmer too, don't we all.

Still, this is the funniest thing I have ever heard. If you seriously think C# is the "most advanced" programming language to date then I have to question your competence as a programmer.

 

[Lindset]

Re: Thanks for the heads up

Originally posted by MilkyMilky
Great job.

Nice to see someone else interesting in seeing a real 'free market' for gaming - I mean - the servers gonna have a linux port right? I can only guess at how strongly tied the rest of the project is to DirectBLOW.

Don't forget that Valve are using the Cg language for shaders (if my memory serves me correctly) - and there _is_ an SDK for linux, too.

Maybe gentoo games could get in on this bag....

They're not using nvidia's Cg crap.. they're using DX HLSL.. just wanted to point that out

Oh, and DirectX doesn't exactly blow.. there's a reason developers choose to use it.. I wish microsoft would make a linux version (and versions for similar os), but that'll never happen

 

[Mountain Man]

Originally posted by MrD
Okay, my bad. I didn't mean GUI, i just meant UI.

I wasn't aware there was a difference.

ie. anytime you want to do something remotely clever you have to drop back to using a console

Look, if you've never used Linux just say so, but this whole pretending you know what you're talking about while simultaneously proving that you don't isn't really going to fly.

 

[Mountain Man]

Oh, and DirectX doesn't exactly blow.. there's a reason developers choose to use it..

Yes, I'm sure kick-backs and other incentives never come into play.

 

[Lindset]

Originally posted by Mountain Man
Yes, I'm sure kick-backs and other incentives never come into play.

Never said it didn't.. but you've got to admit that it's a pretty solid API for 3D games.. it's constantly being improved (and microsoft does have bright minds working on it)

I never said I agree with all of Microsoft's tactics (and belive me, there are many of microsoft's applications I don't like either), but I just wanted to point out that DirectX is pretty good

Oh, and I did see that some guy mention that OpenGL has been bought out by nvidia, which has been bought out by microsoft.. that's just ludicrious

 

[kelisis]

Well, Linux is for servers. If you are a gamer the choice to go is with Windows. So, no I am not signing your petition!

 

[zakl]

GUI's??? Here are some screenshots of my Gentoo desktop...

http://smoothlogic.org/gallery/os-shots

Windows = Innovation??? LOL since when?

Linux innovation not mentioned previously in other posts...

Mozilla - Tabbed Browsing, now there's an idea! You can browse multiple websites at the same time in one window! Can you do that in MSIE??? HELL NO, if you want to browse 5 websites you have 5 windows open using up more system resources.

Linux X desktop - Multiple Desktops! You can have up to 8 or more virtual desktops in Linux. Imagine instead of having 12 windows all open in the same workspace, having to minimize them all, now you can do different things on different desktops and keep all your windows open. I personally have 4:
Workspace 1: Main(web browsing and other things i might do)
Workspace 2: Chat(holds all my chat stuff, IRC, AIM, and any other chat related programs I might run)
Workspace 3: Misc(various stuff I might not pay much attention to while im on my system, but that is never the less running)
Workspace 4: Bit Torrent(Whenever I have multiple Bit torrent downloads open I keep them all tiled on this workspace so I can switch over and check the status of each one)

Other people use them for different things, my friend has a dedicated workspace for developement(programming).


Oh, but Linux can't do everything I need it too, my e-mail is on an MS Exchange server.

I'm sorry to hear that but if you look at my screen shots you will see evolution, an e-mail and calendering program designed as a Linux replacement for Outlook. And it has an exchange module for connecting to those hideous Exchange servers.

Just look at my linux progs screen shot in my gallery. There are several very useful programs running in the screenshots.

Meida players??? Streaming audio and video??? MPlayer does it all, the xterm window open in my one of my screenshots is streaming Windows Media content from www.ksbj.org.

Windows is stable right? Pshh whatever, I use Bit Torrent quite frequently to download fansubbed anime, and W2K crashes EVERY time I run BT. I understand that this may be a hardware related issue and could be fixed by purchasing a new (more compatible) NIC.

But why do that when Linux runs perfectly compatible with ANY hardware I throw at it? I installed linux, and ran 15 bit torrent windows at the same time, with NO problems at all. You know why? Because Linux isn't a POS Operating System that will crash from petty problems like NIC drivers.

BTW, props to DeBaan and Vino for defending Linux against idiots who dis it and don't even know jack about it. All I have to say is...

P W N D!!!

You n00bs are probably the people who install linux and just because you can't master it in one day like any n00b can in windows, decided it sucked.

Windows: When in doubt, reboot... what the heck kind of solution is that??? I mean I know it works, but don't any of you care about uptime and stability???

Linux is the bomb if you give it half a chance and explore all of the options available.

If you can't find a program to do what you need to do for linux, then your just not looking.

Bah, anyway, ROLL WITH IT VALVE, jump on the bandwagon. I mean your the only leading gaming developer not making a port for linux.

Speaking of which, if linux is so horrible like you n00bs say, tell me this, why are the majority of the #1 Counter-Strike servers out there LINUX SERVERS???? Most any top 32-player server runs on Linux. Hmmm... valve must be on to something... better yet valve KNOWS Linux is worth it, or else they wouldn't have ported the server to Linux.

 

[Gunner]

I'm going to resume your post into one sentence Zakl...

Originally posted by zakl
LOL...idiots...P W N D!!!...n00bs...n00b...Linux is the bomb...n00bs

 

[etanol]

On topic: yes HL2 for linux (why not, if your not a linux user then don't care ppl)
Off topic(like most of this thread): After reading 5 pages I can say this; Those who keep talking sh*t about linux actually don't know what they are talking about - that's it. If you knew and wasn't an ignorant ba*tard you would be be suprised - but ofcourse you just can't face it that all you do in your Win OS was done first and is still done better in a *nix OS.
With knowledge more can be done, and better. That's why linux and other *nix platformes are more efficient.

 

[zakl]

Originally posted by )[eVo]( Para
I for one will not sign this petition, Linux users can go hang themselves.

If your not going to sign it then why even post? Nobody asked you to object or not sign it. The title is HL2 to linux petition. Meaning for those that use linux, then can click that link to vote for a linux port. I don't see why you others who really won't be affected one way or the other if a Linux port is created, get so offended, and start dogging linux. And you evo bla bla, your even getting morbid about it telling us who may choose different software from you to go commit suicide. I seriously think an admin should delete your post, because it is really uncalled for.

 

[oMarKs]

I used to argue on behalf of windows when my brother spoke about linux....I feel so stupid now

 

[Shirow-DG]

Let's sum it up quickly.

Windows User: "Linux sucks because it's too hard."

Linux user: "Windows sucks bceause it's bloated, unstable, insecure and does everything ass backwards."

My Windows box is used only for gaming. All my other machines run OS X, Debian or OpenBSD.

I wouldn't, in a million years, dream of running a webserver, FTP server or anything else public on a Windows machine.. it's:

A) Way too expensive
B) Way too insecure
C) Requires more resources than an equivalent *nix task

However.. I'm not even going to jump on the Linux gaming bandwagon, because it's not worth the effort. If the gaming companies want to release a Linux version, they'll do it, regardless of petitions. And all you'll get on a public forum is either 'unskilled' computer users telling you how stupid you are and how much better Windows XP is, or 'sysadmins' that don't know how to use *nix so they have to pretend they use Windows because it's better.

HL2 in Linux is a nice thought in theory but unlikely to happen. Personally, I'd rather see developers porting to OS X - I think OS X has a MUCH better chance of succeeding as a decent OS.

The GUI is easy to use. You never have to drop to command line to do anything a 'normal' user needs to do. It's based on OpenBSD so you can run most *nix software you want to on it. It's (relatively) secure. It supports multiple users etc properly.

I've been using OS X since 10.2 and I love it.

 

[Mountain Man]

I use OS X at work, and I don't really like it mainly because a lot of it is dumbed down. For instance, I hate having to close every single program that is accessing a given removable media drive before I can eject the media. Windows is at least smart enough to update the system and let all relevant programs know that the disc has been ejected. I also hate having to go through an extra step to close programs. You click on the red button and the window disappears, but the program hasn't actually been shut down. You have to go to your menu bar and select "Quit" from the menu.

OS X is a nice, stable operating system, but its lack of flexibility turns me off.

Here's my rundown of the current popular OS's:

Windows: Easy to use; flexible; unstable
OS X: Easy to use; stable; inflexible
Linux: Flexible; stable; not as easy to use

If you just want to click the pretty buttons and shit and don't really care about getting the most out of your system then the former two are for you. If you don't mind actually learning a thing or two about how an operating system works, the benefits of Linux are inumerable.

 

[Guest]

I for one am willing to admit I have no linux expierience so shouldent be talking :cheers:

although I know for a fact its better for servers, I have heard from many that osx and linux based servers woop windows servers ass

 

[Gunner]

Originally posted by zakl
If your not going to sign it then why even post? Nobody asked you to object or not sign it. The title is HL2 to linux petition. Meaning for those that use linux, then can click that link to vote for a linux port. I don't see why you others who really won't be affected one way or the other if a Linux port is created, get so offended, and start dogging linux. And you evo bla bla, your even getting morbid about it telling us who may choose different software from you to go commit suicide. I seriously think an admin should delete your post, because it is really uncalled for.

Seems to me you're the one who's offended here buddy. You start flaming everyone, then expect us to sign the petition?

You're the "n00b" here... "PWND" is that how you say it?

 

[Shirow-DG]

OS X is a nice, stable operating system, but its lack of flexibility turns me off.

I haven't actually noticed that 'unable to eject withotu closing open windows' problem - I do it all the time. Are you running the latest version?

I don't disagree that Linux is more flexible, but I'm talking about as a mainstream OS.. maybe shoulda clarified that.

I wouldn't install Linux for my mother.. but I'd buy her a Mac and not a PC. I wouldn't dare setup a novice user with a Windows machine unless it was behind a hardware firewall.. just not safe anymore.

 

[Zynaps]

Linux is all fine and dandy but to be honest i prefer microkernel-based operating systems.

http://get.qnx.com

Possibly the most stable OS in existance :>

 

[krarg]

I think it's funny how everybody who wants to try arguing that Linux is better than Windows always mentions how awesome it is as a server, when I thought the whole point of this was to say that Linux is better in games...which it obviously isn't. You're just deluding yourself if you truly think Linux is better for games, unless you enjoy Tux Racer THAT much. Yes, Windows is only the better OS for desktop use (all included) because it's had a usable GUI for longer, and because they have far more money and the industry (games industry, that is to say) has just accepted Windows as the de facto standard. Porting Half-Life 2 to Linux won't change this, it'll just cost Valve tens of thousands of dollars, and then Gabe would have to spend all his time checking e-mail from people on Linux complaining that there are no decent drivers for their videocards in Linux; ATI people anyway.

It's better as a server, not as an all-around desktop OS.

 

[DaLys]

I want to be in the fight so i say FreeBSD! Easy to use (if you have computer knowledge). Safe. Stable. (sounds like tvshop)

 

[etanol]

Ok everyone who don't know how to use Linux don't comment - you just don't know what you are talking about.

 

[Shirow-DG]

That's a good idea too

 

[Xtasy0]

Originally posted by krarg
I think it's funny how everybody who wants to try arguing that Linux is better than Windows always mentions how awesome it is as a server, when I thought the whole point of this was to say that Linux is better in games...which it obviously isn't. You're just deluding yourself if you truly think Linux is better for games, unless you enjoy Tux Racer THAT much. Yes, Windows is only the better OS for desktop use (all included) because it's had a usable GUI for longer, and because they have far more money and the industry (games industry, that is to say) has just accepted Windows as the de facto standard. Porting Half-Life 2 to Linux won't change this, it'll just cost Valve tens of thousands of dollars, and then Gabe would have to spend all his time checking e-mail from people on Linux complaining that there are no decent drivers for their videocards in Linux; ATI people anyway.

It's better as a server, not as an all-around desktop OS.

tuxracer is ****ing awesome!

boy am i glad there is a windows port, haha.